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Unix-Haters Handbook Available Online

prostoalex writes "The Unix-Haters Handbook, publication year 1994, is now available online for free as a single PDF file. Apparently some suburban Seattle company has agreed to host this 3.5MB file on its servers. The anti-foreword is written by no other but Dennis Ritchie, who proclaims: 'Here is my metaphor: your book is a pudding stuffed with apposite observations, many well-conceived. Like excrement, it contains enough undigested nuggets of nutrition to sustain life for some. But it is not a tasty pie: it reeks too much of contempt and of envy.'" This is what should happen to more out-of-print books.

39 of 634 comments (clear)

  1. Windows Hater Book, Entry 1 by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows Hater Book, Entry 1.

    A "32-bit multi-threaded Operating System" which freezes for 30 seconds while Adobe Reader 5.0 starts up and downloads a 3.5 MB pdf .

    I guess it is multi-threaded. I mean, I could wiggle the hourglass.

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    1. Re:Windows Hater Book, Entry 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps, but Mozilla is not a "32-bit multithreaded operating system." If it runs in one called "Windows XP" it acts the same as a "Web Browser" called "Internet Explorer," because its using the same program to render the "pdf file," "Acrobat Reader."

    2. Re:Windows Hater Book, Entry 1 by Zeinfeld · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Hey guys, you are missing something important, when we were running the unix-haters list at the AI lab WindowsNT did not exist, Windows 3.1 was a toy O/S that did not even pretend to be a serious contender.

      Most of the people who were on the haters list were actually VMS and Multics users, or like me they had used so many different O/S and written bits of them that they were in a position to make comparisons.

      UNIX does come off very baddly compared to the other O/S of its era. The command line interpreter is garbage, the documentation abysmal and as for security - Denis Richie effectively invented the buffer overun bug. C was the first computer language that had dynamic memory allocation without dynamic range checking. Today we are unlearning that mistake with Java and C# which both have memory management and memory bounds checking.

      UNIX is unfortunately not the greatest creation of computer science. The fact that so many youngsters look at the pile of offal uncritically is somewhat disappointing.

      However take a read through the security chapter and then ask yourself whether any of the major security flaws in the UNIX architecture was an impediment to its success? If the answer is no then don't bet on the 'security issue' keeping Windows out of the data center for long. That did not work to keep UNIx replacing real O/S like VMS.

      Security is pretty much like the 'character' issue in elections. The candidate that raised the 'character' issue in the last campaign was the recovering alcoholic with an undeclared criminal conviction for DUI, who had been a director of a company with Enron style accounting, had sold shares and illegally failed to report the sales to the SEC - twice, who had dodged the draft by getting his father to pull strings to parachute him into a draft-safe spot in the Texas national guard and then went AWOL for over a year.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    3. Re:Windows Hater Book, Entry 1 by the+gnat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I once asked an older coworker and Solaris guru what happened with the Unix-haters list. He told me that it stopped being quite so funny once Windows NT came along.

      I'm certainly not blind to the faults of Unix- there have been many, many failed technologies that were more advanced than the crap we have to work with now. I think the reason so many people profess their love for Unix now is that the remaining alternative is pretty godawful, and many of us have had limited opportunity to work with anything better. You can pine for VMS all you want, but whatever made it such a badass operating system seems to have been discarded in the making of NT.

      Perhaps in twenty years we'll be mocking old MS-bashing Slashdot posts as we attempt to deal with crashing PalmOS Metaverse servers and brag about how our Windows 2020 boxes are *real* computers.

    4. Re:Windows Hater Book, Entry 1 by Art+Tatum · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Perhaps in twenty years we'll be mocking old MS-bashing Slashdot posts as we attempt to deal with crashing PalmOS Metaverse servers and brag about how our Windows 2020 boxes are *real* computers.

      I doubt it. The reason so many people prefer Linux (or other UNIXes) to Windows is the UNIX design philosophies, the rich history, and the community spirit. Bill Gates has explicitly stated his disdain for all three.

    5. Re:Windows Hater Book, Entry 1 by nathanh · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Thats the one truely innovative thing (not that I'm convinced I like it) about linux, the license.

      I couldn't care less for "innovative" features. I'd just be happy with something that works. This whole freaking "innovation" hoobah was invented by the lawyers in the Microsoft antitrust case and as far as I'm concerned it can stay there.

  2. Nothing to do with Microsoft... by cperciva · · Score: 4, Informative

    This might be on Microsoft's servers, but it's in Daniel Weise's private webspace (he being one of the three authors). No, this is not an unsubtle attempt at pro-windows propaganda.

    1. Re:Nothing to do with Microsoft... by anotherone · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Maybe he works with windows because he doesn't like Unix?

      No, that's insane, it must be a conspiracy.

      --
      Username taken, please choose another one.
    2. Re:Nothing to do with Microsoft... by DarthWiggle · · Score: 5, Funny

      I parsed the negatives and came up with "this is a subtle attempt at pro-windows propaganda."

      I was about to type that I parsed the negatives and found Jesus, but I thought I'd get modded troll.

      (Pardon me, I'm in the middle of exams, so I'm not entirely in charge of myself.)

  3. Announced on ``The Online Books Page'' a while ago by WillAdams · · Score: 5, Informative

    (I know, 'cause I sent in the note which it listed there ;)

    That's, http://digital.library.upenn.edu/books/ for those who aren't familiar with this wonderful site.

    It lists a number of other out-of-print books which're of interest to geeks (and some which are in print such as the .tex source (which one may not process save under specific circumstances) for _The TeXBook_ and _The METAFONT Book_ by Dr. Donald E. Knuth). Books of interest include:

    _Unix Text Processing_
    Norman Walsh's _Making TeX Work_ (which is on Sourceforge)
    Eckel's book on programming Java
    and for those with kids, _The Great Logo Adventure_

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  4. From the forward by radon28 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "As for me? I switched to the Mac. No more grep, no more piping, no more SED scripts.. "

    Oh well. I guess he really can't escape Unix.

  5. From the preface by coene · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the Preface:

    Modern Unix is a catastrophe. It's the "Un-Operating System": unreliable, unintuitive, unforgiving, unhelpful, and underpowered.

    Now, who has the URL to that Microsoft company picture from the 70's where everyone looks high?

  6. Go Figure by cscx · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dennis Ritchie himself uses Windows NT...

    1. Re:Go Figure by Darth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He uses windows NT to connect to a Plan 9 server. The Plan 9 server is where the work is happening. his NT server is mostly a gui terminal.

      Also, he's in management now. He needs the NT box so he can read all the microsoft format documents he has to interact with for work.

      he mentions these things on the link you, posted. Were you being intentionally misleading, or did you just not read it?

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
  7. Where are they now? by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 5, Funny
    Google to the rescue...

    Simson Garfinkel eventually became a hermit and withdrew from public life after too many people mistook him for Art Garfunkel. He now lives in a cave in southern California.

    Daniel Weise went on to work at Microsoft. He distinguished himself as the first non-Samoan to ever pick up Bob Barker after winning the Showcase Showdown on "The Price Is Right."

    Steve Straussman (no website, sorry -- anyone?) left the Unix-Hater's list after it was revealed that he had fallen in love with a woman who loved Unix. He has come to terms with the past, and now teaches "How to Shell Script in Linux" classes at his local community college.

    John Klossner went on to a successful career making cartoons for Lucas' Skywalker Sound company newsletter, until fired for printing one that suggested an unnatural intimacy between Luke Skywalker and Chewbacca.

    Donald Norman won the coveted "Golden C< Prompt" award and retired from public life.

    Dennis Ritchie became something of a celebrity on the web for his many and varied contributions of photos to Engrish.com.

    Scott Burson became a monk and moved to Iceland.

    Don Hopkins ran for office in Lousiana and lost. He is now a semi-successful insurance salesman, and plays harmonica regularly.

    That was all I could find out about -- anyone got any more?

  8. Ironic by camt · · Score: 5, Funny

    I find it ironic that in the forward he mentions he switched to a mac to avoid cryptic UNIX things like grep and pipes, etc.

    Now Mac OS X is based on UNIX!

    1. Re:Ironic by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. The unix culture is that if you make the underlying tools simple and generic, you can build better high end tools on top of them than if you just target the high end first and ignore the many layers between that and the hardware. By putting a different user interface on top of unix, Apple is very much legitimizing the unix culture (and admitting that their previous OS'es had unfixable design flaws inside.)

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  9. would care about the /. effect by nuintari · · Score: 4, Funny

    I would care about the server getting slashdotted, but since its microsoft's bandwidth, and this is slashdot, I feel compelled to be a dick and not volunteer a mirror.

    Microsoft has more bandwidth than god anyways.

    --

    --Nuintari

    slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.

  10. It's a good read by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I actually have it in paperback form, and it comes with a Unix barfbag. A lot of the points made in the book are still quite valid, but a lot of them are things that have been fixed in the last 10 years. When placed at the appropriate time, you have to realize that it does a decent job of describing the worst parts of Unix from the views of VMS users, among others. Like /., it makes no pretense of being a balanced view.

    My main gripe is that they confuse the Internet with Unix. So an entire chapter is devoted to Usenet. That was written before spam, I'm sure the author would be able to write even more vitriol in that category.

    I'd love to see it updated, particularly given that so many of the gripes have been addressed and fixed in the world of FS/OSS.

    Probably my favorite quote that really needs an update: "Unix was no designed for the Mac." (page 18 of the PDF)

    Michael

  11. Re:Moz does the same thing... by Angry+White+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

    And what's the percentage of IE users out there? You still glad you left all those http connections dangling Billy-boy?

    They're spcefications for a reason!

    --
    You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
  12. Actually a really good book about Unix by IvyMike · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I read this book when it came out, when I was just a mere youth in the world of Unix. I actually learned a lot about Unix, both the history and actual day-to-day usage. It's clearly authored by a collection of people who love to hate unix and hate to love unix.

    In the intervening nine years, a lot of the criticisms in this book have been addressed. Even at the time it was released, this was becoming true. A lot of the issues in the book have a solution, and its name is "Perl". But don't fool yourself; Unix still sucks in a lot of ways. The chapters criticizing X, for example, are unfortunately far too true today.

    I hope the people who read this get the joke; that only a group of people intimately familiar with Unix could have produced such a book.

  13. Re:Dear Microsoft... by jonabbey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Unix Hater's Handbook is a classic, and should be read especially by UNIX/Linux fans. I always used to force my minions^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstudents to read it (until one of my students kept it) so they would have a better understanding of where UNIX had been, and what aspects of it were suboptimal.

    A lot of what TUHH rags on has long since been improved.. who mucks around with /bin/sh, sed and awk now that we have Perl and Python, after all?

    Other things haven't been improved much on the UNIX side, and TUHH includes some important lessons about why that is, and what the real world benefits and costs of that are.

    I'm glad that this is available in some form again now, but it's not the same without the friendly UNIX Barf Bag bound into the back cover.

  14. favorite part thus far - Unix & C were a prank by dAzED1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    page 337:

    In an announcement that has stunned the computer industry, Ken Thompson,
    Dennis Ritchie, and Brian Kernighan admitted that the Unix operating
    system and C programming language created by them is an elaborate April
    Fools prank kept alive for more than 20 years. Speaking at the recent
    UnixWorld Software Development Forum, Thompson revealed the following:
    "In 1969, AT&T had just terminated their work with the GE/AT&T
    Multics project. Brian and I had just started working with an early
    release of Pascal from Professor Nichlaus Wirth's ETH labs in Switzerland,
    and we were impressed with its elegant simplicity and
    power. Dennis had just finished reading Bored of the Rings, a hilarious
    National Lampoon parody of the great Tolkien Lord of the Rings
    trilogy. As a lark, we decided to do parodies of the Multics environment
    and Pascal. Dennis and I were responsible for the operating
    environment. We looked at Multics and designed the new system to
    be as complex and cryptic as possible to maximize casual users' frustration
    levels, calling it Unix as a parody of Multics, as well as other
    more risque allusions.
    "Then Dennis and Brian worked on a truly warped version of Pascal,
    called "A." When we found others were actually trying to create real
    programs with A, we quickly added additional cryptic features and
    evolved into B, BCPL, and finally C. We stopped when we got a
    clean compile on the following syntax:
    for(;P("\n"),R=;P("|"))for(e=C;e=P("_"+(* u++/
    8)%2))P("|"+(*u/4)%2);
    "To think that modern programmers would try to use a language that
    allowed such a statement was beyond our comprehension! We actually
    thought of selling this to the Soviets to set their computer science
    progress back 20 or more years. Imagine our surprise when AT&T
    and other U.S. corporations actually began trying to use Unix and C!
    It has taken them 20 years to develop enough expertise to generate
    even marginally useful applications using this 1960s technological
    parody, but we are impressed with the tenacity (if not common sense)
    of the general Unix and C programmer.

  15. Stupid argument by jsse · · Score: 4, Insightful


    The Problem with Hidden Files


    Unix's ls program suppresses file whose name begin with a period (such as .cshrc and .login) by default from directory displays. Attackers exploit this "feature" to hide their system-breaking tools by giving them names that begin with a period. Computer crackers have hidden megabytes of information in unsuspecting user's directories.
    Windows' dir program suppresses file whose are attributed with H (such as...what you see in attrib *.* with H with them) by default from from directory displays. Attackers exploit this "feature" to hide their system-breaking tools by giving them attribute H. Computer crackers have hidden mega bytes of information in unsuspecting user's directories.

    Using file name that contain spaces or control characters is another powerful techniques for hidding files from unsuspecting users. Most trusting users (maybe those who have migrated from the Mac or from MS-Windows) who see a file in their home directory called system who't think twice about it - especially if they can't delete it by typing rm system. "If you can't delete it," they think, "it must be because UNIX was patched to make it so I can't delete this critical system resource."

    Using file names that contain spaces or control characters is another powerful technique for hiding files from unsuspecting users. Most trusting users (maybe those who have migrated from whatever-OS-on-earth) who see a file in their system directory called system.dll won't think twice about it - especially if they can't delete it by typing del system.dll. "If you can't delete it," they think, "it must be because Windows was patched to make it so I can't delete this critical system resource."


    The entire article is stuffed with argument as such. Worth reading only for a laugh.

  16. Foreward by Donald Norman, Apple Computer.. by coene · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, in 1997, Donald Norman of Apple bashes UNIX...

    And now all Apple Systems ship with it!

    I [heart] Irony

  17. A HOWTO on fixing Unix's user interface by YetAnotherName · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've got the print version of the book. Witty, clever, and sadly on-target in quite a lot of its observations. (I'm still dismayed to see a greater-than character in front of "From" when it's the first word on a line in an email message. There's just no excuse for that in 2003.) And I'm a die-hard Unix lover (logged on using a Silent 700 when I was in 3rd grade).

    But I was turned off that the Unix Haters mailing list was so exclusive: you had to write some similarly erudite and novel observation on how awful Unix was before you'd be let into the club. Clever invective to be kept a careful few? Sounds a bit fearful to me.

    Regardless, it's been years since the book's been out, and Unix still has many warts. The book (and presumably, the mailing list, although I wouldn't know), could serve as a requirements document on how you'd go about improving Unix in general.

    What did the authors offer as a better UI? No, not Windows. Not Mac. Some arcane LISP machine was usually the machine of choice. Sorry, I live in the real world and have to earn a paycheck.

  18. Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    In case it does get slashdotted, there is a mirror at www.cyruslabs.com/unix-haters/

    It even has an HTML converted version for all of us that hate PDF's.

  19. Some very good points... by Brian_Ellenberger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This documents has many excellent points. When you are a green developer just into college you are sort of brainwashed into the "UNIX is the best. PCs and Macs are just toys compared to the incredible power of UNIX." When I encountered things I just assumed it was my lack of knowledge or understanding. UNIX wouldn't have faults or problems!

    Of course, many of these problem have been resolved since this book was written. Unfortunately, far too many have remained and have many their way into Linux.

    A) Cryptic Command Names. Still there in Linux

    B) "Unix was like Homer, handed down as oral wisdom."

    Man, this is so true. I got most of my UNIX knowledge passed down to me by upperclassmen and professors. It is amazing how much training it takes in UNIX to do something simple in Windows. For example, recursively searching through a subtree for some text in a file.

    C) Terminal Insanity. Still there in many ways. VT100 pops up its ugly head decades after it should have been killed.

    D) The X-Windows Disaster. X-Windows is what first made me question UNIX's superiority. Dang X sucks. Bad. What a mess! "Motif Self-Abuse Kit" made me laugh because my brief experience programming Motif was one of the worst in my life. It was a mess of void pointers and pointers to functions that was an absolute pain to program.

    E) Make "Unfortunately, in their zeal to be general, many
    Unix tools forget about the quick and easy part."

    I've never found a make that I liked. You should not have to spend hours programming the freakin makefile. Nor should you have to debug whitespace because you have an extra space or tab.

    1. Re:Some very good points... by wotevah · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It is amazing how much training it takes in UNIX to do something simple in Windows. For example, recursively searching through a subtree for some text in a file.

      Toddlers might sometimes wonder why people need to learn so many words and learn to speak in complicated phrases, when it seems that all you really need to do is point and cry to get what you want. Then we grow up.

      The power of Unix is that you can use it to do things that its designers did not (nor did they have to) think about. Your example is flawed in its purpose because you will find it increasingly difficult to do tasks the UI people did not anticipate you would need. Such as doing something with those files you found, rename them to .bak or resize the .gifs or whatever. Until someone writes a Visual Basic program to do it and sells it for 29.95.

    2. Re:Some very good points... by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, we can play tit-for-tat here...

      A) Cryptic Command Names. Still there in Linux

      Sure, there are cryptic commands in Linux, but there are equally cryptic commands in DOS/windows. Start with "dir". Sure, its short for "directory", but imagine someone who has never used a computer before, and they want all the files in a certain place on the computer. Do you think they would ask for a "list" of files? Or a "directory" of files? Once you're in the UI, its not much better. If you use more than one version of windows you'll notice real quick that the File Explorer is completely different from version to version starting with win98 (98 worked like 95's browser with some html extensions)

      B) "Unix was like Homer, handed down as oral wisdom."

      I'll just take a moment to point out that this has been a tried and true method for several millenia now. Your example is pretty moot, since it took several revisions of windows before it could search into the text of files (without buying Microsoft Office and using its Find Fast utility)

      C) Terminal Insanity. Still there in many ways. VT100 pops up its ugly head decades after it should have been killed.

      Have you ever used a UI and wished that someone had added a checkbox for a feature you knew was possible? Added extra blanks in window's Find Files panel/dialog to do boolean searching? Unfortunately, when designing a UI, you're designing the limits of the human's interaction with the system. Someone said "I'll just put one blank there, therefore people can search for only one thing at a time." While the same goes for console user interfaces, things like screen real estate are no longer an issue, the only worry is if the user is willing to type the entire command.

      D) The X-Windows Disaster.

      Do you have a better idea? Something that works portably across many systems? Runs on a thin client over the network? Supports multiple color depths including monochrome? Extensible by modules? Operates transparently locally or remotely?

      Doesn't have a per user licensing restriction? Doesn't use "foundation classes" that change every version of the compiler?

      I hardly call X a disaster, when you consider its goals. I'm sorry you had to use Motif, but nowadays we get to choose from plenty of different widget libraries and languages, and can choose one we like.

      E) Make

      I don't know what you're doing to make using make so hard. Automake is tough, but for a single project, which you dont intend to be porting to other systems, a Makefile containing the targets, the sourcefiles, and the commands to compile each takes about 30-60 seconds of typing per target (especially with copy and paste and variables for compiler options), assuming you know how your source files fit together. If you want to do fancy stuff, buy a book. (See B. Not all wisdom is oral.)

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  20. Re:Hopelessly outdated... by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Funny
    How far we've come...
    2377 xclock 0.0% 0:00.08 1 9 14 128K 284K 432K 1.52M
    2323 Clock 0.0% 0:01.75 1 52 83 872K 4.63M 3.24M 40.4M
    MacOSX makes this book obsolete.
  21. Re:Great read! by the+gnat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    CLIs in general are *not* intuitive.

    I wouldn't ever claim that they are. I would, however, claim that I can work far faster with a Unix CLI than my Windows coworkers can with their GUI. There will always be exceptions, but I've known many people who found Unix far easier to use once they overcame the initial barrier. I find this usability more important than being intuitive. (By the way, as someone who has always used Macs or Unix systems, I certianly don't find Windows at all intuitve, GUI or no.)

  22. so what if these problems also exist elswhere by dh003i · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ok, so, I think everyone on /. knows that I like GNU/Linux. So, you expect that what follows is going to be a ranting rave about how much this book sucks, right? Wrong. This book is great, and here's why.

    Many here have pointed out that alot of these very same problems exist elsewhere. Hidden files are a social-engineering security problem on Windows and Mac as well; likewise with undeleteable files.

    So what? Saying, "well, their OS sucks too" doesn't make our OS any better. Since when is it ok for me to accept my own flaws just because everyone else around me also has those same flaws, or others?

    The stuff written in this book shouldn't be seen as MS/Mac propaganda. I think most people who are going to be reading it are GNU/Linux users, and aren't going to be switching anytime soon, irrelevant of how much the authors hate *nix. (btw, if *nix sucks so much, why is Mac basing OSX around it, and why do we keep hearing rumors about MS doing such as well?).

    There are many valid and important criticisms of *nix in that book. We should consider ourselves lucky that this book is narrowly targetted to *nix and doesn't address any of the same problems win Windows and MacOS -- we've received solid constructive criticism which others haven't, and that's a good thing.

  23. so, why didn't you do something about it? by g4dget · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Most of the people who were on the haters list were actually VMS and Multics users, or like me they had used so many different O/S and written bits of them that they were in a position to make comparisons.

    I think this is part of the blinders that you and other people had on at the time. You hacked operating systems and because hacking some particular OS was great fun for you, you thought it was great for users. But for users, none of that mattered.

    UNIX does come off very baddly compared to the other O/S of its era.

    Maybe from the point of view of a Multics kernel hacker. From the point of view of a user, it looked pretty sweet in comparison to those aging, messy behemoths.

    [Lack of security] did not work to keep UNIx replacing real O/S like VMS.

    You are confusing the presence of security features with security. VMS had plenty of security features, it just managed to be even less secure than UNIX at the time (a pretty amazing feat).

    Denis Richie effectively invented the buffer overun bug. C was the first computer language that had dynamic memory allocation without dynamic range checking.

    Fortran had dynamic memory allocation, which was widely used (too bad it wasn't standardized) and no bounds checking. So did BCPL. So did many Pascal compilers (and not all Pascal compilers offered bounds checking). So, for that matter, did assembly language.

    UNIX is unfortunately not the greatest creation of computer science. The fact that so many youngsters look at the pile of offal uncritically is somewhat disappointing.

    The whole UHH book, as well as your posting, reek of arrogance and ignorance. Do you really think people who chose UNIX at the time weren't aware of the problems that the UHH points out? They (myself included) chose UNIX nevertheless because, in the end, it was still better for getting real work done than the alternatives.

    What the world could have used was some rolling-up of sleeves and efforts to do better, either by bringing those fabulous other systems to workstation-class hardware, or by at least porting over bits and pieces of them (shells, programming languages, etc.). But, in the end, your emperor had no clothes: while people like you whined and complaied a lot, when it came down to it, you apparently really didn't know how to do any better.

    1. Re:so, why didn't you do something about it? by g4dget · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Sort of like people chose Windows now, because it is now better for getting real work done than the alternatives, right ?

      An obvious but incorrect analogy. First, Windows isn't displacing for UNIX/Linux at all--UNIX/Linux is going strong, in spite of Microsoft's business tactics. Second, most people don't explicitly choose Windows at all, they just get it by default.

      So, how UNIX displaced VMS/Multics isn't at all analogous to the relationship between Windows and UNIX/Linux today. And the thing I criticize Microsoft for isn't primarily the quality of their software, it's that they are not playing on a level playing field. If they were, then I think market forces would take care of Microsoft's software quality issues one way or another.

    2. Re:so, why didn't you do something about it? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Goody! Old 1980's flameware predicted.....Puting up my lawn chair and expecting a great show.

      I am so sick of the modern VIM vs Emacs flamewars.

      I remember reading the book when I was first learning Linux. Linux was very hard and awkward at first. Especially back then in 97. A simple concept as a sdk meaning just a compiler and not an ide was strange and a negative for me. Now I laugh at this. I did not understand the concept of using an editor and using a compiler to turn it into code. This was because I was brainwashed with Windows. I understand the weaknesses now of this thinking.

      The arguments about Unix are old in this book and lot of them base it on the"Unix is so hard and broken..." phases.

      Well I have never used VMS so please excuse my ignorance but doesn't VMS have like 200 options just for the set command?

      Isn't VMS also written in C?

      Didn't unix come out first and of course be behind?

      Doesn't Linux/Unix today have journaling filesystems, raw i/o, clustering, smp support, etc that VMS advocates claimed that only there OS had?

      Also does VMS have the everything is a file metaphore like Unix? If not then its a disadvantage to adminster.

      VMS also suffers from X because its the only gui that is standard like Unix. It really sucks and I chuckled at that section. With modern hardware today its somewhat bareable.

      Linux has changed and its alot easier to use.

      For hacking and customizing its the best available. The Windows registry blows and I can not customize Windows like i can with Linux.

      I remember posting a very old post here back in the 20th century before kde was even stable.I stated that unix commands were designed due to limited hardware and offered no real advantage over gui's. They are more powerfull and barely needed for regular desktop use today. I was wrong and the desktop is also here finally for those who fear the CLI.

      As far as I can tell the disadvantages are gone and no other os is as easy to both use as well as hack and customize as Linux/Unix.

  24. macho bullshit attitude by dh003i · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The comment of one macho veteran Slashdotter have so annoyed me that I think it deserves being a main-comment for criticism:

    There are no such things as "rm disasters". There are only mistakes, stop making them, or at least think before you execute.

    Exactly the kind of bullshit macho attitude I was talking about.

    Why don't you try doing that if you're a car company, and sell a car that can so easily be fucked up? Oh, yea, instead of having an out of-the-way hard break lever, we put a hard-break button right next to the defog button...but don't fucking bitch at us if you accidentally press the hard-break button (which is right next to the defog button) when trying to defog your windows, and your car spins around and crashes on an icy road.

    Does that kind of bullshit macho attitude apply for companies making airplanes? When people making airplaies discovered that slats switches were being turned on accidentally, did they say:

    "Yea, so what the slats extention switch can be accidentally turned on by an unintentional movement, possibly causing passenter-injury. Tell the pilots to be more careful and not fuck up."

    No, they didn't. They said,

    "Ok, so this is a problem. Why don't we cover the slats switch with a spherical clear cover that has to be unhinged before extending slats -- that way, they won't get extended at 500mph and cause the plane to trolly."

    Just because many of these problems are socialogical not technological doesn't mean they're not problems. People are not robots. People fuck up -- quite a bit actually. To you perfect people writing a reply to this boldly telling me that people shouldn't "fuck up", how many times did you have to use backspace in writing that response?

  25. I guess I could have said this: by istartedi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unix makes easy tasks hard and hard tasks possible. Windows makes easy tasks easy and hard tasks $29.95.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  26. Re:Bullshit macho attitude by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Insightful


    How often is someone going to 'rm -rf /"?

    I do it a lot.

    But that's because I use chroot a lot ;-)

    But as is always my policy when doing large rm's, I begin with an ls of the same arguments first so that I can see what it will delete, then arrow-up to the command again and change the 'ls' to 'rm' to do it for real.


    Correct. A truly careless user will tend to fuck things up, even if you prompt him "really want to recursively delete entire home directory?" (shorter is better...the longer a message, the less likely the user will read it). However, you can at least put a speedbump along the road to oblivion. It might actually stop a semi-conscious user from deleting all their important info, and save them time. This is good.

    The "are you sure y/n" method is ONLY useful if it is an uncommon message. If you are always prompted for each and every time you attempt to use the command, then automatically saying "yes" becomes part of your automatic unthinking processes, and it doesn't help matters to have the message there. It has to be a message that when it appears indicates something DIFFERENT from normal is happening. For this reason I never bother with aliasing "rm" to "rm -i" like a lot of people do. It's a useless step that just trains you to hold down the 'y' key after doing an 'rm' command.

    --

    Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.