Slashdot Mirror


Protein-Packed Hard Drives Promise High Capacity

Digimax writes "The New Scientist has an interesting article on a technology being developed by NanoMagnetics which involves using a protein responsible for storing iron in the body to store data on a hard drive. Is this the start of the BioTech revolution?"

40 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. -1, Redundant by CraigoFL · · Score: 3, Funny

    Insert joke about protein-packed keyboards here...

    1. Re:-1, Redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Customer Service Rep: Sorry...we cannot access your account, our harddrive is suffering a hormonal imbalance.

  2. I'm downloading as fast as I can, Cap'n! by coupland · · Score: 5, Funny

    It seems to me that if hard drive capacities continue to grow at their current rate, in a few years they will have outstripped the porn industry's ability to fill them.

    Pun unintentional...

  3. Great by Cipster · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now we'll have a new excuse for crashes:
    Sorry boss I don't have that document, my hard drive just mutated...

  4. solid state by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yea, this is all fine and dandy, but doesn't help with speed.

    The real revolution waiting to happen is solid state hard drives that are affordable. Until we get rid of the moving parts, hard drives are going to be very very slow, relatively speaking. For the desktop, this is more important that storage space, since we already have 240gb drives that few can fill.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    1. Re:solid state by eenglish_ca · · Score: 2, Informative

      We need to go to a 64 bit architecture so that we can can avoid the more than 1 byte sector issue aswell because that takes considerable overhead. In addition, the chemical reactions used in a protein drive would make it much faster than the reading and writing to a magnetic driver.

      --
      Checking out my form of escapism.
    2. Re:solid state by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is the computer industry is focused on updating the old instead of innovating for new. It took nearly 10 years before anyone even CONSIDERED moving from x86, and still half of the market is still stuck there. Personally, I think Netburst was a nice move from x86, but it wasn't enought, just a marketing scheme to get back control of the market. Anyways: I look forward to seeing new innovative techniques at advancing speeds, hopefully dropping the entire current archtectures and moving on. Just because most people want to upgrade their computers one piece at a time over the span of 5 years doesn't mean that they shouldn't be forced to upgrade all at once every now and again, it helps the economy and overall, helps drive new innovation. So in reality, I hope solid state devices do come into standard, but now is not the time. We need to get the rest of computing up to that level of readiness before we can take the next step in storage. Otherwise the storage will outrun the ability for computers to fill it.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    3. Re:solid state by JDevers · · Score: 2, Informative

      In what way is Intel's NetBurst NOT x86? New bus topography comes and goes but the instruction set stays the same. I would say that x86-64 is a much more significant change to the core architecture than NetBurst which is basically marketing speak for a slightly different bus layout combined with a very deeply pipelined CPU.

    4. Re:solid state by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      More ram incurs more overhead. After a point, it ends up slowing your box down if you are not actually USING the extra ram.

      Even with a 15k scsi drive, if you handle large files, which is becoming more and more common, the hard drive is going to be the bottleneck. Even if you only handle small files, the access time for a hard drive is generally 100 times slower than the access time for ram, regardless of how you RAID it, or the spindle speed. That is a lot of idle time when loading large files, or accessing lots of small files. Granted, SCSI helps because it takes the load off the cpu.

      I can't possibly see how your athlon 2200 is the bottle neck, except when you are doing cpu intensive stuff. If I am pulling a filter in Photoshop, yea. Raytracing, etc. I expect that. But I use photoshop every day, and the amount of time I spend pulling a filter is still much less than loading and saving files.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    5. Re:solid state by mlush · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The real revolution waiting to happen is solid state hard drives that are affordable.

      Solid state hard drives are already affordable. (as a price point on flash RAM USB key drives are about 1$/Mb). Say a 128Mb of Flash RAM cache on a 20Gb hard disk could provide instant access to frequently used files and come to think of it, would be able to defragment itself. I guess would not cost more than $200 (?)

      Does such a product exist? and if not <Bangs table> Why not??

    6. Re:solid state by yintercept · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Generally things go faster as they get smaller. At the nano-level, I suspect that the the difference between "solid state" and "mechanical" blurs a bit.

      As for the speed thing, different storage types have different merits. A great deal of information is accessed rarely. Look at the newspaper. Today's edition will be read by several hundred thousand people...the service delivering this page needs to be fast.

      The archives of yesterday's news has a different dynamic. The June 7th, 1981 sports section might be accessed once or twice per year. The indexing device for the archived paper still needs to be fast...the data itself needs to be on a slower, reliable media.

      The true art in computer design isn't just having the fastest components, but having the components matched to their tasks.

    7. Re:solid state by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>Just because most people want to upgrade their computers one piece at a time over the span of 5 years doesn't mean that they shouldn't be forced to upgrade all at once every now and again, it helps the economy and overall, helps drive new innovation.

      Does this sound like the line of thinking over in Redmond or what?

      Holy shit. Someone should be forced to upgrade? WTF? Why should that be? Should I be forced to give up my classic 1974 Chevy Impala because it's not 'up to date'?...because there are newer and more efficient engines available? Why is a computer any different?

      I don't mean to attack the author personally, but I don't like this kind of thinking.

      --
      Huh?
    8. Re:solid state by schmink182 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Should I be forced to give up my classic 1974 Chevy Impala because it's not 'up to date'?...because there are newer and more efficient engines available?

      Maybe. Less efficient engines are horrible for the environment. Should the atmosphere have to suffer because of your Impala?

      Okay, I was obviously exaggerating there, but I just wanted to show how it's not exactly as black and white as you think.

    9. Re:solid state by kesuki · · Score: 2, Informative

      His point, was that brain dead operating systems could be using ram to speed up the hard drive -- instead of using the hard drive to pretend you have more ram.
      More ram does and does not incur more overhead.
      your computer already has to deal with the overhear of being able to address 4 GB of memory. It's 32-bit and that's how much memory it can address. Unless you've got more than 4 GB of RAM installed the overhead is _already_ built into the system.
      This is part of why the 64-bit Opteron with it's 40-bits of addressable and 48-bits of virtually adressable space adds a slight overhead, and slightly lower memory perfomance than a 32-bit athlon at the same clock speed.
      Yeah, being able to address 1 TB of ram is kinda silly if you don't even need to address 4 GB, since there is a performance penaltry in being able to address 1TB. That's why the opteron doesn't have a 64-bit addressable memory space It only needs 1 TB for today's 4-8way server applications.
      But adding more ram only incurs boot time overhead in 'checking' that ram to make sure it's good.
      It doesn't decrease performance anywhere else, because the adressable range is already designed into the system. so the performance hit is already there.

  5. many choices by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    is it just me, or is there a LOT of different ways to make a high capacity hard drive these days.....

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:many choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I prefer punch cards myself.

      Sid Dabster is so cool.

  6. Funny quote from article by 1nv4d3r · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Aligning individual magnetic grains is a problem for all of us," agrees Mayes.

    That quote struck me as funny. Like he's talking about world hunger or something. He's got a point, though...I do have a real problem getting individual magnetic grains lined up--in fact I can honestly say I've never successfully done it.

    If I come up with something more insightful to say, I'll post it to this afternoon's dupe.

  7. Yummy by Your_Mom · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hard Drives, now part of your daily balanced breakfast...

    --
    Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
  8. Heh by Otter · · Score: 4, Funny
    Is this the start of the BioTech revolution?

    Yup, recombinant protein therapies and artificial livers were cute, but biotech hasn't yielded any _real_ products until someone started making larger capacity hard drives!

    I was about to indignantly jump onto my molecular biologist high horse, and started laughing instead. Can't really criticize -- as far as I'm concerned, all that mysterious stuff physicists do seems impressive but it's nothing to me until I can stop worrying about downloading one SHN file too many.

  9. Says nothing about speed by arvindn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The article is silent on the question of how fast data can be read from the device - both in terms of bandwidth and latency. I would imagine that anything that's protein based would be awfully slow, and hence suitable only for long term data storage. But if it takes days just to fill the disk its probably useless. In any case, disk sizes have already gotten to the point where only a small fraction, perhaps 5% of users fill them to anywhere near their full capacity. So unless the internet becomes the primary medium of distribution of movies or something like that I don't see these kinds of devices having more than a niche market.

  10. Vicorian era holdback by spineboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll paraphrase William Gibson

    "Doesn't it seem weird to have these high-tech computers with little spinning discs inside them. It seems like a hold out of some Victorian technology - like a more modern record player."

    Solid state has to be the way to go - no more waiting for your computer to "boot up", just turn it on and it's running your desktop, right where you left it last. Sure solid state SEEMS expensive now, but remember how much a 40 MEG hard drive cost 15 years ago? We just need to throw money at it and the price will drop. I mean come on chips are CHEAP - they're in everything

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
    1. Re:Vicorian era holdback by Fweeky · · Score: 2, Funny
      Will we one day look back with amusement on big power supplies, power hungry cpus and disks, and large volume cases with amusement?

      The way things are going, we'll look back and laugh at the problems we thought *we* had, before trying to find the leak on our Liquid O2 cooling system to soak up the 10MW of heat coming from our desktops, while handling our Palmtops with oven gloves.
  11. Re:OLEDs? by Boogaroo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually the first "BioTech" would probably be something along the lines of the smallpox vaccines that were manufactured by injecting horses and then taking the serum from the blood for the antibodies.

    In the harddrive case, it's a mechanical good. In the smallpox case, it's a medicine. Both are certainly ways to use biological means for manufacturing.

    If someone can think of an earlier biotech, please feel free to let us know!

  12. Digesting information by dfn5 · · Score: 3, Funny

    In the future people won't read books, they will eat their hard drives. Information never tasted so good.

    --
    -- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
  13. great by mattkime · · Score: 4, Funny

    now even my hard drive is on the atkins diet.

    --
    Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
  14. Increasing current capacity by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This reminds me of an idea I came across once. Why not build a hardware gzip chip (Like the one on these PCI cards and embed it on the controller for the harddrive. While this may slow down speeds a little, we can get a lot more data on current drives. Even though this may be counter productive right now, later on with these SUPER fast disk drives we could really cram some data onto them :)

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
  15. I can see the tag line now... by Captain+Beefheart · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Western Digital--nutritious and delicious!"

  16. New Scientist article sucks by Muhammar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    New Scientisct article writen by somebody ignorant in material science: skips the important stuff and dwells on marginal. The company site more informative.

    Magnetic particles in storage media must be evenly spaced and right size. This protein is used as a mold and spacer for making and placing the magnetic particles. The protein is spherical, has cavity which can be filled with magnetic stuff and forms crystal-ordered-like monolayer on support surface. Burning the protein leaves the magnetic particles in caramelized yuck. All this done in with external magnetic field. And since we are baking it well above Curie temperature of the magnetic material, cooling will produce the particles nicely magneticaly aligned.

    [To organize apricot pits, place a baking tray covered with apricots in oven pre-heated to 475F for 2 hours, and do not stir.]

    --
    I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
    1. Re:New Scientist article sucks by TheRealRamone · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. Here's what the company's website says:

      Technology Overview

      Hard disk drives currently store information at densities up to 70 billion bits (or gigabits) per square inch, with data stored as microscopic magnetic patterns arranged in circumferential tracks on a media. At extreme magnification, individual bits of data are revealed to be composed from grains of different sizes and shapes. The density at which information can be stored is restricted by how cleanly these patterns can be represented. Current production technology is limited by coarse granularity as well as the presence of some very small grains which spontaneously lose their memory - the superparamagnetic effect. These limitations will likely only allow for a possible tripling of storage capacity in the future. To significantly extend storage capacity, data patterns would ideally be recorded on orderly and uniform grains.

      NanoMagnetics grows tiny magnetic grains within hollow protein spheres called "apoferritin", which are 10,000 times smaller than the diameter of human hair. The resulting nanoparticles are limited in size by the inner cavity of the spheres, producing highly uniform material which we call DataInk(TM). Importantly, DataInk(TM) is produced using mild and inexpensive chemical techniques.

      The resulting particles can pack closely, like oranges on a grocery shelf. Films of DataInk(TM) are baked (or "annealed") to optimize their magnetic performance, and to also carbonize the protein spheres. What remains is an ordered assembly of uniform, magnetic grains. This type of media is ideal to expand the storage capacity of hard disk drives, as it is able to support smaller and smaller patterns. Using individual grains to represent bits of data, this protein-derived media could ultimately extend densities to between 5,000 and 10,000 Gbits/in2.

      Current Status Since our Series A round in 1999, NanoMagnetics has sustained a 1700% annual increase in areal density. At this rate, we will overtake industry's anticipated areal densities by Q3 2003. Leveraging on our compelling progress, NanoMagnetics will aim to qualify DataInk(TM)-enhanced media, then partner with one or more hard disk manufacturers for the next generation of drives. NanoMagnetics' phenomenal series of milestones and their dates are as follows:

      August 1999 - 75 bpi or 0.002 Gbits/in2 August 2001 - 0.7 Gbit/in2 December 2001 - 2.2 Gbit/in2 June 2002 - 6.0 Gbit/in2 August 2002 - 12.1 Gbit/in2

      The Company is currently preparing to scale up the manufacture of DataInk(TM) and is working with a number of key industry players.

  17. New Scientist... by JDevers · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm going to point out something that no one else seems to have noticed yet. This is an article in New Scientist, that should be enough said who ever actually read it. The have a real penchant for investigating off the wall oddball ideas then writing up the issue with just enough slant that one who reads it takes the same mentality as those who think cars which run on water have been made but are being held back by the big car manufacturers and oil companies. Virtually every issue of New Scientist has at least ONE grand convoluted conspiracy theory. I'm not saying there is no basis at all for this, just that New Scientist isn't exactly a reputable news source much less something approaching a peer-reviewed scientific journal. They are much more like Scientific American but don't even approach that level of credibility.

    That said, go ahead and debate it all you want. I just think (as a molecular biologist...more DNA focused than applied protein mechanics like this, but still fairly well versed) that by the time all the "bugs" for this are worked out we'll have leapfrogged the whole idea of magnetic media Winchester syle drives. This is the equivalent to making a perfect artificial diamond point for a record player, by the time we had the tech to do it the world had already moved onto CDs or other media for the overwhelming majority of uses of said records...People still make record players, but they are a niche market to say the absolute least.

    1. Re:New Scientist... by Muhammar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The technique is very clever, but it is fringe. This is a very small company developing new technology. They may win big, but right now they do not have anything marketable and won't have too soon. They operate on private financing and have to advertise their cutting-edge proprietary technology breakthrough whatever to attract investment to keep going.

      I worked for a company like this, so I take it with some scepticism.

      --
      I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
  18. Read the label, Vegans. by desertfish · · Score: 3, Funny

    It sounds like these proteins come from either humans or animals. I'm surprised their source was not revealed in the article.

    Looks like animal-friendly consumers will need to read the ingredients labels on hard drives, as well as motherboards?

  19. Mmmmm by ZorMonkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    Soon our PCs will be more nutritious than most junk food. I suppose that makes recycling them more efficient. Consume and flush!

  20. ...mostly because this is a dumb idea by sultanoslack · · Score: 2, Insightful
    • hard drive space is cheap
    • hard drive speed is not
    • we can make hard drive big enough that they are not a limiting factor for 99.99% of applications
    • hard disk IO speed is a limiting factor for most application

    Add to this the fact that most data either is (a) speed critical or (b) does not compress well. i.e. database data you normally want very quickly, same for applications. The things that fill modern home computers are media files, which are already heavily compressed.

  21. Copying nature is worth 1 billion years of R&D by cyko500 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We've had computers around for a while and have some of the smartest people working to make them even better using the latest and greatest technology, but why not just copy nature? Life has been on this planet for a billion or so years. Evolution has had much more time than us to make this run effiecient. Our bodies are far more effiecient than anything we can design even with the obviously "poor" . Things we have just barely now come to understand have been going on in nature for quite some time. Nature has also had a long time to weed out the crap. Despite that our macrodevelopment could be improved, on the molecular level living creatures on this planet are damned effiecient. If we take the effiecient molecules that nature has created and combine them with our much better designing skills (nature does some stupid shit.... like making the trachea and esophagus join at the pharynx which allows us to choke to death) we will get some kickass new technology. What will be a REAL technoevolution is when we figure out how neurons actually store memory. That will allow us to make hard drives, RAM, and processors a single unit which will be 1000x faster and have 1000x the storage capacity at minimum. Not to mention the fact that computers will then be able to learn (put some Actual Intelligence in those games) and the intefacing possiblities would be kickass.... I doubt that'll be in my lifetime, though, with the moral issues and whatnot. Sorry about the mindless rant, I'm a med student... :)

  22. Because the read/write method doesn't change! by YuppieScum · · Score: 3, Informative

    The process is about how to organise and homogenise the arrangement of magnetic particles on the disc surface.

    Reading and writing is still done the way it is today (mangentically) but, with a more regular magnetic matrix, greater storage densities can be acheived...

    --
    This sig left unintentionally blank.
  23. We keep working... by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We keep working on newer faster computers, better and better AI, and we keep trying to find machines that are fault tolerant and self healing.

    You watch, before it's over with all of our machines and computers are going to be genetically engineered creatures that are alive.

    We'll have giant brains in vats, and giant beasts of burdon doing our labor. We'll grow our homes instead of building them, and we won't need highways because we'll fly around everywhere we go on giant birdlike creatures.

    Everything will be organic save for some things that are still best served by mechanical means. Having said that, nearly all of our lives will involve some kind of biotechnology, except for food. All of our food will come out of some kind of machine.

    --

    "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

    Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
  24. My Mac could(and can) do this by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Solid state has to be the way to go - no more waiting for your computer to "boot up", just turn it on and it's running your desktop, right where you left it last.

    Years ago I added a whole 32 or 64MB of ram(I can't remember which) to my 660AV, and it was enough to do a couple of interesting things(ie, have enough left over to run applications 'n stuff :) One was load the ROM into RAM, which sped up things dramatically, since so much of MacOS was ROM-call based(remember the Toolbox?). Back in the day, that was a big deal; now's pretty common-place. The second thing was I could start up(and run) the system off a ramdisk, if I got the system folder small enough(that became easier as memory prices dropped etc.)

    I booted my 660AV that way- timed it at 6 seconds flat, from when the bootloader started to when the system stopped loading the finder etc. That's faster than the time from when Lilo starts decompressing the kernel to when init gets launched on my 1.4ghz athlon.

  25. Re:OLEDs? by DocDendrite · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Actually the first "BioTech" would probably be something along the lines of the smallpox vaccines that were manufactured by injecting horses and then taking the serum from the blood for the antibodies.

    If someone can think of an earlier biotech, please feel free to let us know!
    200 years ago it was observed milk maids exposed to cows did not develop smallpox. By innoculating uninfected individuals with the exudate of the cowpox corpustle an immunity was conferred. In fact, today's smallpox vaccine "DryVax" is comprised of elements from this cowpox virus (called Vaccinia).

    On a similar vein, the first noted instance of BioWarfare being employed occured during the Middle Ages. Plague (Yersinia pestis) infected bodies were catapulted over the high walls of fortified strongholds. The hope was that the contagion would spread to the inhabitants.

    -DD

    p.s. I see a lot of biology misinformation on slashdot. I'd like to qualify my post by stating I am a fourth-year PhD student in Molecular Biology. Should anyone wish to correct or amplify my statement please have more expertise than having read "Hot Zone" or "The Coming Plague." Thank you.
  26. Wonderful by Nintendork · · Score: 2, Funny
    Now I'll have to worry about STDs when I mount a volume. Anyone know when the final release of Norton Virtual Condom is expected? How about an iCondom for the Mac users?

    -Lucas