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FreeBSD: The Complete Reference

Just Some Guy writes "I recently received a promotional copy of Roderick W. Smith's "FreeBSD: The Complete Reference". I was pretty skeptical at first - it's my nature - but was pleasantly surprised at the range and depth of information presented in a very accessible format. While not ready to supplant Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD", it's certainly a worthwhile read for new and moderately-experienced users." Read on for Just Some Guy's full review. FreeBSD: The Complete Reference author Roderick W. Smith pages 869 publisher The McGraw-Hill Companies rating 9 out of 10 reviewer Kirk Strauser (Just Some Guy) ISBN 0072224096 summary (Most) everything you need to know about FreeBSD

Overview

This is a large book. At 869 pages, not including copies of the GPL and BSD License, it packs some serious heft (it weighs slightly more than three pounds).

It is divided into six main parts, which are further divided into 32 (!) chapters. The sections are:

  1. FreeBSD Installation: Hardware requirements, installation instructions, and a general overview.

  2. Basic System Administration: Partitioning, startup procedure, file management, printer setup, user management, software installation, kernel configuration, and X.

  3. Network Configuration: Introduction to networking, dial-ups, client/server principles, basic firewalling.

  4. Servers: In-depth explanation of file, mail, web, and shell servers, plus an overview of DNS, NTP, DHCP, and other random services.

  5. Common User Programs: Introduction to KDE and GNOME. An overview of various network clients and office software. A short tutorial on The GIMP. The state of multimedia and games on FreeBSD.

  6. System Maintenance: The basics of system monitoring. How to upgrade the OS and installed software. An overview of system security. How to compile software. Basic scripting. Troubleshooting and how to get help.

The Good

This book is an excellent starting point for people new to FreeBSD, or even to Unix-like systems in general. Each of the wide range of topics is covered in a reasonable amount of detail. Mr. Smith claims to have been working in the field for quite a few years, and it shows in the way each part of the OS is presented as a component of the whole. This isn't a "cookbook"; readers are introduced to each subject in a way that encourages them to make their own configuration decisions.

I was unable to find any factual errors, and I certainly looked for them. The author and proofreaders did a good job of checking their information before going to print. Since my copy was from the first printing, I'm especially impressed.

New users, in particular, will appreciate the hand-holding approach of the earlier chapters on installation and basic configuration. More experience administrators should be able to find enough new information about rather routine subjects to keep them interested.

Of particular interest was the almost complete lack of FreeBSD advocacy in the book. The introduction features a remarkably even-handed discussion of its relative strengths and weaknesses compared to other Unix and non-Unix operating systems. I greatly respect the author's decision to weigh the alternatives fairly and let the reader form his own opinion.

The Bad

FreeBSD: The Complete Reference is, unsurprisingly, a new entry in Osborne's "Complete Reference" series. As such, it's fairly comparable in size, layout, and scope to other books in the series such as Herbert Schildt's C++: The Complete Reference (my favorite C++ text). That's a pretty high standard to live up to, and I began my first pass through the book with a very critical eye.

My only real complaint is that, despite the title, this is not a "complete reference." Although The GIMP enjoys its own sub-chapter, the book makes no mention of certain high-profile features such as Vinum (FreeBSD's logical volume manager) or jails (chroot on steroids). It's obviously not possible to document every single component of the entire OS, but the name would seem to claim exactly that. Of course, even though FreeBSD: The Desktop Reference or FreeBSD: Reference For Users might be more appropriate, those would violate the series' naming convention. Still, don't be fooled by the title.

Although less important, every user has their own idiosyncratic ways of accomplishing certain tasks, and I tend to get distracted by recommendations that are counter to my preferred methods. Having said that, Mr. Smith makes some strange recommendations, such as editing the passwd file and compiling the password database afterward by hand rather than using vipw. His system certainly works, but I can imagine a new user scratching their head in puzzlement at the amount of work necessary to change their name.

The Ugly

Any book of this size and scope will have a few minor quirks, and this is no exception. For instance, the author needed to use several domain names as examples throughout the book. Rather than using the traditional "example.com," he decided to use his own creations. That in itself is no problem, except that he and his publishers have not registered those domains for their own use. I can only imagine the surprise when a curious newbie tries to access one of the hostnames in a web browser and finds that a prankster has register the domain and used it to mirror goatse.cx.

A more serious lapse, in my opinion, was the decision to include an installable copy of FreeBSD 5.0 on the CD that comes with the book. Unfortunately, freebsd.org refers to that version as a "new technology release," and it suffers from a rather long list of installation and stability problems. Some day in the future, the 5.x series will be considered stable and ready for use on production systems, but that's still a while off. I sincerely hope that no would-be new users become disillusioned with their newly-installed systems and give up on FreeBSD as a slow and unstable OS. Despite the drawbacks, though, I can understand the author's desire to focus on the new 5.x series instead of the more stable but older 4.x line. This book was published in 2003, and I doubt that he wanted to have to publish a second edition detailing the new release less than one year after initial release.

Summary

This is a good book with a lot of solid information for new and experienced users. It may have a few minor problems, but it is a well-written and approachable reference that should make a valuable addition to any FreeBSD administrator's bookshelf. I would recommend it highly to anyone migrating from other Unix-like systems, finding themselves in charge of a small network, or wanting to see what the fuss is all about. If you're a new user, though, do yourself a favor: download and install FreeBSD version 4.8 from http://www.freebsd.org/ instead of installing the copy on the book's CD.

You can purchase FreeBSD: the Complete Reference from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

153 comments

  1. FP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why do I need a kernel? The new grub bootloader is actaully a operating system in it's own right!

    1. Re:FP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the EMACS team still need a kernel for their operating system, maybe you should port emacs to grub.

    2. Re:FP! by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

      The new grub bootloader is actaully a operating system in it's own right!

      Yes, almost. :) But it still doesn't know how to boot a friggin CD... Even LILO can do that...

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    3. Re:FP! by ptr2void · · Score: 1

      Lilo can? Cool, didn't know that. *runs off and kicks Grub from the disk*

    4. Re:FP! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1
      I just use Emacs bootstraped fron grub.

  2. The thing I didn't like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Was the last line in the book:

    "*BSD is dying."

    It just seemed so out of place.

    1. Re:The thing I didn't like by TrekCycling · · Score: 1

      Hang around here a few weeks and you'll see it a few billion times.

  3. But I thought BSD was dying... by Transient0 · · Score: 0, Troll

    The post even said that it was 'official'.

    Oh man, with all this contradiction, I'm going to have to stop believing things I read on the Internet... even Slashdot.

  4. Re:Text of Article by Klerck · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Thank you, this will come in handy if it gets slashdotted.

  5. but ... but ... by B3ryllium · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the book is half-decent, it will show users how to make buildworld; make buildkernel; make installkernel; make installworld - with whatever the latest codebase might be.

    Therefore, the argument that the 5.0 CD will be out of date is moot - at least for people who have internet connections. :)

    1. Re:but ... but ... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, but you have to get it installed in the first place. 5.0 simply won't boot on some systems. An expert could probably work around the problems, but that's not the target audience of the book.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:but ... but ... by Norman+Lorrain · · Score: 1

      See here for this and more. Recommended reading.

    3. Re:but ... but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree where is a good reference for doing the this(make buildworld, FreeBSD handbook just confused me.)

    4. Re:but ... but ... by Apreche · · Score: 1

      The trueness. I have recently acquired a free Pentium 2 computer. So I've been attempting to install all kinds of oses on it. I tried FreeBSD 5.0 on a reccomendation. It hung up while it was booting off the CD. In my journal I tell a more detailed story.

      All in all I realized that installed most operating systems and linux distros sucks ass. Mandrake. Red Hat, Knoppix(doesn't really count), Suse, and windows95+ are the only ones with decent installation. Everything else blows, from what I've tried, and I've been trying quite a bit.

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    5. Re:but ... but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5.0 is rough around the edges, but other than that is quite stable and fast. Besides that, it also offers quite a few advancements beyond the 4.x line. For example, ufs2, ffs snapshots, background fsck, and the new /etc/rc.d scripts. In fact it is already used in production systems (my place of work, for example).

    6. Re:but ... but ... by eht · · Score: 1

      so maybe that's what that was

      just finished installing freebsd 5 on an old pentium 200, it borks and reboots if i try to even boot off the cd, works fine if i do a floppy install(blech) with some help from ftp

      which was weird because in testing to make sure it could actually boot cds i had tried win2k3 server(free 180-day eval) and that booted fine

    7. Re:but ... but ... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I am glad FreeBSD.org calls it a "technology" release. I was confused when it was labeled originally as "release" and I assumed it was stable.

      On my system FreeBSD 5 booted fine with my old motherboard which became fried from a powersurge. After I blew hundreds on a UPS and new asus motherboard, FreeBSD would not work with my USB keyboard. I sucessfully got it to respond to my ancient AT style one without a problem.

      Also the ports are broken. In gods name do not do a "cd /usr/src/misc/instant-workstation;" make install clean. This will severly brake your system and not even a make deinstall will fix!

      Also /etc has changed. One of the things I loved about FreeBSD is instead of cyrptic bash scripts in /etc that linux has, it includes clean rc ones instead.

      For example rc.conf
      # Sendmail = off
      # http = off ,etc. This means you can just uncomment the lines you need to configure your system! No scripts will call scripts that are symlinked to god knows where. Linux is nearly impossible to adminster and customize unless your a real guru.

      This has been moved to /usr/local/example/etc. THis makes it harder for newbies to configure there systems and no documentation was found on the change. I needed to get rid of the insecure sendmail and replace it with postfix and without these commented RC scripts its hard to do.

      FreeBSD 4.8 is deffinetly recommended at this time.

    8. Re:but ... but ... by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there are people out there far better qualified to contribute to the discussion than I am, but I'll take one stab:

      Ports are not located in /usr/src, they are located in /usr/ports. It sounds like you tried to "convert" your already installed box to a "freebsd workstation" installation of some sort; that has nothing to do with ports, that's a world-level change.

  6. The GIMP? by Lerxst+Pratt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is the GIMP doing in a BSD Reference book?!? Seems like fluff to me. Especially when you can download a pretty comprehensive GIMP manual online.

    1. Re:The GIMP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wait until you read the section about the screensavers...

    2. Re:The GIMP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL!!!

  7. Skeptical by dfn5 · · Score: 4, Funny
    I was pretty skeptical at first -

    But then I thought "Hey, the book was free, what the hell do I care?"

    --
    -- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
  8. But the real question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    is BSD dying?

    1. Re:But the real question is by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Actually, the real question is 'is there actually a need for such a book?'

      The first thing I noticed comming to FreeBSD from Linux was the high quality and large quantity of official documentation provided. While I did buy a book when I started off with Linux, I really didn't need to for FreeBSD. This may be because I was already familiar with *NIX by that point (although FreeBSD 'feels' a lot tidier in terms of layout - 100% subjective, your milage may vary). On the other hand there was a large amount of documentation aimed at neophytes which I skipped.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:But the real question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I first started to learn to drive a car I had to take lots of classes but when I switched to an SUV last year I found that I didn't need to take any classes at all. It may be that I already knew how to drive but I think it is because the truck is just easier to learn.

      Does that example make things any clearer for you?

    3. Re:But the real question is by Arandir · · Score: 2, Funny

      The number of hardcopy paper-and-ink books on a bookstore's shelves directly correlates to the operating system's "slashdot" rating. Linux used to have only a couple of books in the bookshelves, and only geeks used it. Then there were hundreds, including a whole series of "For Dummies..." books different only the title of the distribution on the cover. It was only then that Slashdot began posting front page articles on every minor release of the development kernel.

      If we want every minor -STABLE update to have a major mispelled referrer-altered main page announcement on Slashdot, then we need more than the dozen FreeBSD books that are out there. CndrTaco and Hemoo will never recognize FreeBSD as an operating system until it has its own category in the Dewey Decimal System.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    4. Re:But the real question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, it's a stupid analogy you just gave.

      According to your logic nothing can be easier than anything else, because the first thing you try will always be the easiest.

      I am also sure you have never passed up someone in a race.

    5. Re:But the real question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, yes, it's dead.

  9. from the compleat-enchanter dept.? by identity0 · · Score: 0, Troll

    more like from the compleat-misspellings dept. ;)

  10. Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The review I originally posted had links to my bn.com referral:
    The book is available from the usual sources. If you want to be nice to me, you can buy it through my Barnes&Noble referral link. If you find those offensive or otherwise objectionable, you can go straight to it.

    I didn't write the review to make money, but it still seems kind of sneaky to replace my referral with Slashdot's own.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by CausticWindow · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, why would you go to the trouble of registering for referrals, if you weren't going to cash in on them?

      --
      How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
    2. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I never said I wasn't going to collect, just that it wasn't the reason I wrote the review. Think of it as seeing a Free Software project page with a PayPal tip jar. The author probably isn't really expecting to make money, but they won't turn it away.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by fobbman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the /. editors won't fix spalling erorrs in a post but they'll make sure to rip off the referral purchase? Smooth.

    4. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Usquebaugh · · Score: 1

      Guess which site will *NEVER* get my subscription?

    5. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by _xeno_ · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I quick look through other book reviews find that most of them contain a Slashdot link at the end:
      $AUTHOR is the author of $OTHER_REVIEWED_BOOK. You can purchase $BOOK from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

      The first sentence only applies to authors who have already been reviewed on Slashdot, but with very few exceptions (of which Dancing Barefoot, the review immediately prior to this, is one), Slashdot adds the buy link to bn.com as shown in the little template above. I don't think this was anything against you - it's something they do for all book reviews.

      Whether or not it was the right or moral thing to do, I won't judge. Just that it isn't anything against you specifically, it's just part of the standard book review template that Slashdot uses.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    6. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      I agree; I don't think it was anything personal. However, they did remove the final paragraph (which had my links) from the review that I submitted before adding their own footer. That's the part that just doesn't feel right.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they refuse to do caching to referred sites!
      Better to smoke 1000 servers than possibly risk offending one large site who could care less by breaking their adlinks.

    8. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      COULDN'T care less, moron. The phrase is COULDN'T care less.

    9. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by FireBreathingDog · · Score: 1

      I expect that sort of thing from Microsoft, but not slashDot. Perhaps I should change my expectations...

    10. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by cpeterso · · Score: 1


      why doesn't Slashdot add its OWN Amazon or BN referral id and collect the money? I'm sure they could use the extra revenue.

      1. Post story on Slashdot
      2. Change referral id to Slashdot (STEP #2 FINALLY REVEALED!!)
      3. PROFIT!!

    11. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by VAXGeek · · Score: 1

      Could it be the fact that /. is having to splash more and more advertising over what used to be an awesome, up to date, (mostly) spellllled correctly site? I bet by swiping the referral, they are making more money than they have with the MICROSOFT(!) ads that I can see at the top of my screen. Slashdot is all about personal freedoms and geek ethics until the latest Matrix comes out on DVD or there is a quick buck to be made.

      --
      this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
    12. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by Metrol · · Score: 2, Funny

      but it still seems kind of sneaky to replace my referral with Slashdot's own.

      This site, or any other advertising based site, does not exist for you to make money. This isn't your site, nor are you trying to pay your rent by keeping it maintained as your full time job. You sure as heck aren't paying for the bandwidth, server maintenance, or any of the overhead to keep this site going. I'll even wager a guess that you didn't both asking any of the editors if it was okay to try and cash in on your write up.

      If you truly feel wronged by this, here's what you can do about it. Put together your very own site. Bust your ass on it for 6 or 7 years keeping the content fresh and interesting to then establish an audience. At that point, you can toss in all the affiliate payback links you'd ever care to do.

      Even easier, put up an article on you're own site and submit the link! Incur your own bandwidth costs while enjoying the benefits of the large Slashdot audience your site does not have.

      If this were my site, you're darn skippy I'd change that referral code to my own. If a contributing author expects payment for their work, it best darn well be established well in advance of publishing. And yes, working in backend affiliate links you hope the editors don't see is very much an attempt to cash in on the traffic that you could not otherwise generate yourself.

      --
      The line must be drawn here. This far. No further.
    13. Re:Thanks for hijacking my referral links by freestyle-fiend · · Score: 1

      COULDN'T care less, moron. The phrase is COULDN'T care less.

      At last, someone has spoken out about this. I'm not sure "moron" was necessary, though.

      Using "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" is a bad idea (when you mean "couldn't care less") because they mean precisely the opposite.

      I wonder why people do this. Is it because the two phrases sound similar when some people say them (like "could've" and "could of")?

  11. Re:Text of Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you for pointing out the joke, your post will come in handy if I ever lose all sense of humor.

  12. Re:and its printed on dead trees by Hatta · · Score: 1

    Indeed, what is the point of hardcopy computer books? I suppose a hard copy instruction manual would come in handy when installing or trouble
    shooting, But so many books come without html
    entirely. Computers are so much better at searching and hyperlinking than paper is, there's really no excuse for not providing hypertext. And there's really only one reason it's not done more, it would be copied.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  13. Wrong book title. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Can't they never get anything right ?
    The book title is: FreeBSD: The complete necromancer's compendium

    1. Re:Wrong book title. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent! Someone give this man a cigar!

  14. Bullschildt by AltControlsDelete · · Score: 5, Informative
    I question the credibility of any reviewer who refers to something written by Herb Schildt as his favorite C++ text. Good grief.

    From the alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
    16: Why do many experts not think very highly of Herbert Schildt's
    books?

    A good answer to this question could fill a book by itself. While no book is perfect, Schildt's books, in the opinion of many gurus, seem to positively aim to mislead learners and encourage bad habits. Schildt's beautifully clear writing style only makes things worse by causing many "satisfied" learners to recommend his books to other learners.

    Do take a look at the following scathing articles before deciding to buy a Schildt text.

    http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html
    http://herd.plethora.net/~seebs/c/c_tcr.html

    T he above reviews are admittedly based on two of Schildt's older books. However, the language they describe has not changed in the intervening period, and several books written at around the same time remain highly regarded.

    The following humorous post also illustrates the general feeling towards Schildt and his books.

    http://www.qnx.com/~glen/deadbeef/2764.html

    Th ere is exactly one and ONLY one C book bearing Schildt's name on its cover that is at all recommended by many C experts - see Q 25.
    1. Re:Bullschildt by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1, Informative
      Schildt's beautifully clear writing style only makes things worse by causing many "satisfied" learners to recommend his books to other learners.

      Well, that's certainly a contrasting opinion. I happened to like the C++ book (which isn't mentioned in the links you gave). Note that the link to www.qnx.com is dead; if it had a criticism at one time, it's been removed.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:Bullschildt by lspd · · Score: 1

      Interesting...
      I have an overused copy of the "C/C++ Programmer's Reference" that I find fairly indespensible. Not quite a "Perl in a Nutshell" for C and C++, but easy to use as a desktop reference.

      You have suggestions for a better Nutshell type book (function listings with a little commentary) for C AND C++?

    3. Re:Bullschildt by ptr2void · · Score: 1

      Yup, that was my first though, too. If the book is as wrong about BSD as Schildt is about C++, I'd strongly suggest another book. At the very least, I'd find another review of the same book - believing Schildt's pupils aren't good guides IMHO...

    4. Re:Bullschildt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C++ Faqs, by the authors of the comp.lang.c++ faq, Cline and Lomow, (publisher: Addison-Wesley). Or, not so cookbook-y, Meyer's Effective C++ - a good mix of "DON'T DO THIS" (which is absolutely essential in both C and C++), and "this is a good way to do this".

    5. Re:Bullschildt by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Another possibility: the reviewer (me, in this case) learned C++ in school and hasn't touched it since then. To someone at my knowledge level in that arena, Schildt seems like a good author.

      On the other hand, I used FreeBSD every single day, and run quite a few production servers for various clients. I don't claim to be expert but I do know a thing or two about the subject. If I had written a review on a C++ book, I think your criticism would be reasonable. However, I didn't, and I know a lot more about the subject that I did write about than I do C++.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:Bullschildt by ptr2void · · Score: 2, Informative

      Visit ACCU's book corner for some opinions about Schildt and his well-liked books. Well, a lot of people like the Bible or Star Wars... wether it helps them a lot in practice is another question.

    7. Re:Bullschildt by ptr2void · · Score: 1

      I don't question your BSD knowledge - which is an OS I know nearly nothing about (I'm a Linux guy) - or your review. It's just Schildt that scared me :-)

    8. Re:Bullschildt by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      At the very least, I'd find another review of the same book - believing Schildt's pupils aren't good guides IMHO...

      OK, so maybe just a little questioning. ;-)

      Anyway, thanks for the accu.org link in another post.. If I ever find myself writing C++ again, I'll keep that in mind.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    9. Re:Bullschildt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that the link to www.qnx.com is dead; if it had a criticism at one time, it's been removed.

      The qnx link is gone because that user (employee) has since moved on. The criticism is still valid.

    10. Re:Bullschildt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a buttplug that I find fairly indispensable too.

      --
      Trolling for Jesus... and I caught him!

  15. Compleat vs complete by stardeep · · Score: 2, Informative

    > more like from the compleat-misspellings dept. ;)

    Actually, "compleat" for "complete" in the titles of guidebooks is an ancient and revered practice, going back to this book.

    I guess you learn something every day, huh?

    --
    Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
    - Oscar Wilde
    1. Re:Compleat vs complete by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, "compleat" for "complete" in the titles of guidebooks is an ancient and revered practice, going back to this book.

      Bah, it's just an attempt to upgrade it into something it is not.

      It's not much different than the irritating practice of the local strip mall being referred to "The Shoppes of Glen Woode" or the local convention hall being called "River Centre".

      They all just appear to be copping Olde British Spellings to grant status.

    2. Re:Compleat vs complete by stardeep · · Score: 1

      You, Sir, are irony-deficient!

      --
      Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
      - Oscar Wilde
    3. Re:Compleat vs complete by zogger · · Score: 1

      --old famous book, "The Compleat Angler" by Izaac Walton

      I have a pet name for cookie cutter subdivisions like that, and for all I know there's probably a real one or three out there. I call them all (in my silly mind) "creekwoode pointe estates" with the olde englishe extra e. Those are the larger ones, smaller ones I call "ridgeview". That seems to cover most of them anyway. It's like they are taught that as an example at real estate/developer school or something and it just sticks.

      Another favorite of mine is "starter homes". I always equated that with like "training bras".

      I think it was george carlin maybe, can't remember now, but another one, as a question --> "why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways?"

      Ya, what's up with that anyway??

      Language is pretty funny sometimes.

      Back to the names deal, I lived atlanta metro for a long time, there's like almost 3 dozen different "peachtree" whatever streets. Hysterical. Well, if you got a warped sense of humor like I have it is.

      Cars-they all have to sound "tough", macho, and the ones that don't..well, that's capitalism for you. I don't count cars with just letters and numbers, no language-sport there.

      Gremlins??? Never had a chance. Yugo? Huh? -insert bubba voice- "ain't that that furrin money?" And KIA???? Killed in Action??? I want to drive one of them babies? I don't think so.....probably nice cars and all, but I don't think so.....

      Of course, I drive a Jeep, a small mythical creature that inhabits --uhh was it from popeye cartoons? I think so, little fantasy critters. I know it comes from GPxx-government whatever, but still.... language=funny

  16. Re:Text of Article by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
    Thank you for pointing out the joke, your post will come in handy if I ever lose all sense of humor.

    I think this happens when you are awarded moderator points...

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  17. does it include... by JimFromJersey · · Score: 0, Redundant

    the obituary?

    --
    between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
  18. Does it apply to OS X? by ascii · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Forgive me if this is a dumb*ss question, but can anyone tell me how well it applies to Mac OS X?

    Thankyou.

    --
    naah sig schmig
    1. Re:Does it apply to OS X? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative
      can anyone tell me how well it applies to Mac OS X?

      Almost not at all. Large sections involve installation and low-level configuration, which is irrelevant for Mac OS X. Ditto for the ports collection, administering the system, upgrading software, or installing multimedia programs. I don't think there's really anything in their for Mac users, other than maybe the section on configuring servers, and Apple probably has their own tools for that.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:Does it apply to OS X? by ascii · · Score: 1

      Thankyou :)

      --
      naah sig schmig
  19. include news and deep-documented stuff by LastCa_ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've seen a lot of cool stuff to do with FreeBSD (like tweaking the kernel) that was only documented directly into the system (like in the source or man pages) and in some newsgroups.

    My point is, I would be happy if someday, a real "complete reference" book on FreeBSD is created, will all the tweaks and tricks (aka not only a beginner oriented book). No more search in the news and printed-two-years-ago-obscure-documentation for me.

    This is the kind of book I'm looking forward to.

    --
    - LastCall_
    1. Re:include news and deep-documented stuff by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're looking for Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD, I think. The latest version came out this month.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:include news and deep-documented stuff by LastCa_ · · Score: 1

      Thanks.
      This one looks complete to me, but only 5 pages out of 730+ on the topic "Security and firewalls".. still not enough for me.

      Anyways I just complain for the fun of it, everyone knows that no book can really completely cover a subjet as wide as an operating system.

      Maybe they should avoid using the word "Complete" in the title ;-)

      FreeBSD: The Almost Complete Reference
      hehe

      --
      - LastCall_
  20. Elegy for *BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Elegy For *BSD


    I am a *BSD user
    and I try hard to be brave
    That is a tall order
    *BSD's foot is in the grave.

    I tap at my toy keyboard
    and whistle a happy tune
    but keeping happy's so hard,
    *BSD died so soon.

    Each day I wake and softly sob
    Nightfall finds me crying
    Not only am I a zit faced slob
    but *BSD is dying.

  21. Developer lashes out: What Killed FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll
    The End of FreeBSD

    [Note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

    When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

    Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

    FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

    It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

    So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

    Discussion

    I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

    From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

    There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

    Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

    Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

    Shouts

    To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

    To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's w

  22. Sounds like another crappy FreeBSD book by semanticgap · · Score: 1

    For the author not to know about vipw and not to mention vinum is rather lame IMHO. That's just too bad, because I love FreeBSD.

    1. Re:Sounds like another crappy FreeBSD book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also too bad that my favorite OS, FreeBSD is dying.. Man it sucks.

    2. Re:Sounds like another crappy FreeBSD book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and i NEED vinum too.

      and i just bought this book figuring it would how to setup one directory spanning 3 drives.

  23. VINUM not mentioned = good by Lew+Payne · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "...the book makes no mention of certain high-profile features such as Vinum (FreeBSD's logical volume manager)..."

    Why should it make mention of something that is being phased out of FreeBSD? Anyone who has followed the developers' thread knows that the code for vinum is unmanageable and horribly inefficient, and is being replaced. Why should the book's author teach you about something you should not use and that will be deprecated? Why didn't the reviewer research his comments a bit more before being critical of a positive feature of the book?

    1. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      Anyone who has followed the developers' thread knows that the code for vinum is unmanageable and horribly inefficient, and is being replaced.

      My memory and Google turn up no such rumor. Do you have any links?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a successful attempt at getting modded up with fake info to me. Mods: I know you can't check each and every "fact" when /. gives you mod points to use or lose but I'd appriciate if you do what I do and don't mod interesting/informative if you have no idea whether it is actually true.

    3. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Lew+Payne · · Score: 1

      "Sounds like a successful attempt at getting modded up with fake info to me. Mods: I know you can't check each and every "fact" when /. gives you mod points to use or lose but I'd appriciate if you do what I do and don't mod interesting/informative if you have no idea whether it is actually true."

      Empty gestures and arm-flailing aren't going to get you anywhere, and neither is circular logic. The fact that your comment applies just as easily to the original review as it does my comments should have alerted you to its intellectually bankrupt foundation.

      You want to know about the problems with vinum? Then do as I did -- talk with the FreeBSD developers about the problems you encouter with it while servicing high-volume sites. Murray Stokely, John Baldwin, Robert Watson, Bruce Mah or Scott Long can point you in the right direction.

      Grow up. Your lack of knowledge or research into a specific technical area does not qualify you to dismiss authoritative comments regarding same.

    4. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Lew+Payne · · Score: 1

      Murray Stokely, John Baldwin, Robert Watson, Bruce Mah and Scott Long of the FreeBSD development team.

      As far as I know, google does not yet archive the private email communications and telephone conversations of others. All "research" does not equal "Google."

    5. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      As far as I know, google does not yet archive the private email communications and telephone conversations of others.

      ...and neither do I. If something's being planned, but only via private email and telephone, how would you expect anybody other than the people involved to know about it? You made a remarkable claim; please provide remarkable proof so that we may believe you.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Lew+Payne · · Score: 0, Troll

      "...how would you expect anybody other than the people involved to know about it?"

      I don't expect anyone other than the people involved to know about... or anyone who takes the initiative to ask the people involved. If the reviewer had taken the initiative to find out why vinum wasn't mentioned, he wouldn't have made his comment.

      We all have open access to the FreeBSD developers. Ask, and ye shall receive.

      I'm not here to present you with remarkable proof - other than to convey the substance of my email conversation with the current vinum "support" person. I wouldn't waste [too much of] my time on trying to convince comical slashdot critics that my facts are accurate. The opinions (as opposed to facts) espoused by most on here remind me of the Hollywood movie stars giving their "intellectual" opinion of the war.

      Most of you have no inkling of how to research a subject, beyond google and your computer. It's a shame that the new [de]generation hasn't a clue as to how to determine and track down the authoritative source for specific information, beyond typing the terms into a search engine. I guess growing up with the "objective" standards of today's press really does make one believe they are being professional and objective when mimicking the National Enquirer.

    7. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly this is back peddling, after making an ass of yourself ranting about something you thought you read on the "developer list". Google does infact index all mailing lists associated with FreeBSD. Give it a rest.

      It was a minor point in a decent review.

    8. Re:VINUM not mentioned = good by Lew+Payne · · Score: 1

      Clearly, you lack basic understanding (clarity). For example, your statement of "back peddling" is without substance or merit. You incorrectly state that I "thought I read it on the developer list" -- yet what I said was:

      "As far as I know, google does not yet archive the private email communications and telephone conversations of others. All "research" does not equal "Google."

      Clearly, you haven't a clue what you're talking about, even when it's about the post you just read. Perhaps you've found some strong drugs.

  24. Re:and its printed on dead trees by BZ · · Score: 1

    > Indeed, what is the point of hardcopy computer
    > books?

    The ability to read them away from a computer and useful indexes (which no electronic book I have seen has -- they all rely on the generally poor searchability of the text).

  25. FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FreeBSD is great.

    FreeBSD is not great if you don't have a braudband connection though!

  26. more FreeBSD books == good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is great! FreeBSD could use more books to counter the perception that tons of crappy leenucks books equates to high quality, when in fact, leenucks is such a low-quality waste of time, it's no wonder all the leenucks distros are dying by the droves.

  27. A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by BigJimSlade · · Score: 2

    First off: This Is Not A Troll!

    Never having used any *BSD and only having a passing knowledge of Linux in its various flavors, where might one learn about the differences (dare I say Pros & Cons?) of FreeBSD and a Linux distribution? Maybe this is an Ask Slashdot question (I couldn't find a previous one, and a quick Google turned up only performance comparisons, not feature comparisons)

    1. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No this is definitely not a question for the Slashdot "BSD is dying crowd". Try joining a couple a mailing lists, like chat@freebsd.org (subscribe at majordomo@freebsd.org) and a Linux mailing list list, and ask for suggestions.

    2. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      I am by no means a FreeBSD expert, and would barely be considered average by many in here.

      I switched to FreeBSD because frankly I found it easier.

      I was dealing with RedHat and it's pump command, I don't remember the details but I had to upgrade it, I found the rpm but then I had to update the rpm installer, I but I could update the rpm installer but the rpm installer was too old.
      I am sure I missed something obvious but I was too green and frustrated to see.

      I also didn't care for the documentation for linux. It is hard to find the right documentation for your dist and version. The dists seem to modify just enough to confuse the new person. Googling was an exercise in frustration.

      FreeBSD seems to be better thought out, but that's probably my perception. To me FreeBSD seems to be a better server(more stable) than linux, linux a better workstation(better hardware/games some apps).

      Also, if you don't have cd burner(i didn't at the time) the install over the internet worked wonderfully for me.

      btw, I have no problems with linux I use it at work, i just prefer freebsd at home.

      Take it for what it's worth

    3. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by sremick · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am going to be lazy and copy&paste a similar response I posted to USENET recently...

      I've been a FreeBSD user since my first exploration into non-MS OSes many years ago, so my Linux knowledge is second-hand (and may not be 100% accurate or up-to-date) but here are tidbits I think I know:

      - The licenses are fundamentally different. This doesn't matter so much to me but may to you. I'll therefore skip that, but understand that BSD vs. GPL is somewhat of a Holy War.

      - Linux seems to me to be more disorganized. With FreeBSD, you have one true OS. With Linux, there's the true Linux kernel, but that's useless by itself. Instead, it depends on other groups to put together distributions around a kernel (Red Hat, SuSE, etc) adding on userland programs and maybe even patching the kernel a bit for their own needs. With FreeBSD, if you're running FreeBSD 4.8 then you're running the same OS as everyone else with "4.8". With Linux, you're not running Linux version whatever, you're running Red Hat ver whatever, which is based upon a particular version of the kernel, which is different than some other distribution even if it's based upon the same kernel version. An analogy is with cars: With Linux, there's a Linux "engine" but many different companies build cars around that engine. With FreeBSD, they make the engine AND the car.

      - [opinion] Linux users seem to be more "fanatical", while the FreeBSD camp seems more level-headed [/opinion]

      - FreeBSD is renown for it's stability. Linux is a bit funkier... it seems to go for flash and glitz more than rock-solid stability. This is not to say that Linux can't be made stable, or that FreeBSD can never crash. But they approach things from a different angle. A Linux distribution for example tends to initially install X and a ton of programs you may or may not use. The benefit is that you might get to a GUI immediately with less work, but you also might have 100 daemons running you really don't need. FreeBSD on the other hand might take more work to get to initial GUI but once you're there you probably only installed what you really wanted to, and nothing/little else.

      An enlightening point is found at Netcraft's list of the servers with the longest uptime... check what OSes they run:

      http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

      - Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. Hotmail did too, before Microsoft took it over. The largest/busiest FTP site on the 'net runs on FreeBSD (www.cdrom.com).

      - The FreeBSD ports system is awesome. As far as I know, most Linux distributions don't have anything like it. I think one has something that is close but is based upon precompiled binaries. FreeBSD's ports you compile yourself, which takes longer but has benefits that I like. I think the various Linuxes are trying to "catch up" to FreeBSD in this regard but I could be wrong about the current state of affairs. Keeping apps (and the OS itself) up-to-date with tools like CVSup and portupgrade is sickeningly easy.

      - I find upgrading FreeBSD to be incredibly simple. I have heard it surpasses most Linuxes but I could be wrong. But basically with 4 commands you're done (aside from mergemaster, which could use improvement, but really isn't so bad for most simple people like me once you "get it").

      - Linux gets more press, but I consider FreeBSD "the best OS you've never heard of". I'm a firm believer in having your vote be counted even if it's the underdog. I'm putting my support behind FreeBSD because I like it better than Linux, even though I'm in the minority. Using Linux "because everyone else does" is the same mistake that turned Windows into a painful monopoly.

      - There are technical details with threads and scheduling that differ between the two but I don't understand them enough to say anything more on the subject.

      - Don't let people scare you into thinking FreeBSD can't be used on the desktop and is only good for servers. I use it as my desktop at home.

      Well that's all I can think of for now. Hopefully I don't start a flame war... I am not anti-Linux (although I'm anti MS).

    4. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by kirkjobsluder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well...

      One comparison can be found in the essay BSD: Linux With a Twist. The FreeBSD Manual also has a section on the differences primarily focused on the development model.

      But just as a summary

      Support

      Linux has more users, more books, more groups, more mailing lists and more newsgroups. Whether this is good or bad depends on your point of view. I find comp.unix.freebsd.misc to have generally very good advice.

      What you get

      Most Linux distros seem to be headed towards a "complete desktop in a box" approach. In contrast, BSD just gives you a bare-bones distribution with most other applications available as packages or ports. Under BSD the kernel and core programs are treated as a coherent unit.

      Flavors

      Linux seems to spawn off a new distribution about once a month. There just seems to be three main BSDs that focus on different things. (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD.)

      Java

      The BSDs lag behind Linux in Java support a bit. I don't have any problems with Java 1.3 but I'm told Java 1.4 is not production quality yet.

      License

      The BSD license permits incorporation into proprietary systems. Depending on your needs and politics this is either a good thing or a bad thing.

      Hardware

      Linux has support for more peripherals. NetBSD has support for more CPUs.

      Learning Curve

      Hrm. BSD pretty much forces you to master command-line unix. The text-based install assumes a pretty good understanding of basic concepts, and while the Handbook is excellent, it also assumes a bit of knowledge.

    5. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by kirkjobsluder · · Score: 1

      - The FreeBSD ports system is awesome. As far as I know, most Linux distributions don't have anything like it. I think one has something that is close but is based upon precompiled binaries. FreeBSD's ports you compile yourself, which takes longer but has benefits that I like. I think the various Linuxes are trying to "catch up" to FreeBSD in this regard but I could be wrong about the current state of affairs. Keeping apps (and the OS itself) up-to-date with tools like CVSup and portupgrade is sickeningly easy.

      I agree. When I was a RedHat user, I found upgrading to be a bit spotty with rpms (easy to get into dependency hell.)

      On the other hand, one of the other nice things about the ports system is that you don't have to compile from scratch all the time. For most of the trivial stuff I just use portupgrade -PP (upgrade only from packages) to save time.

    6. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by sremick · · Score: 1

      Choice is a wonderful thing. I actually like the piece-of-mind that comes with compiling. You never know when "CPUTYPE=686" is going to help you out, plus I have a bunch of stuff in my make.conf that isn't compiled by default into the package builds (AA fonts in OO come to mind, as well as a bunch of mplayer options).

      I have a decently fast machine (Athlon 1.2GHz). If I had a very slow system and time was an issue, I might consider using the packages.

    7. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by eht · · Score: 1

      If you want the benefits of ports with what you like from Linux some people say Gentoo is the way to go.

      Disclaimer
      I don't use Gentoo
      I don't use Linux beyond what I use Linux compatiblity mode in FreeBSD for(Folding@Home is the only thing i'm using right now)

    8. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you like the fact that BSD is not run by the mob, you'll just LOVE THIS OS.

    9. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by XenonDif · · Score: 1

      Laptop support used to be a little poor with FreeBSD. I had trouble getting power managment and sound running on my thinkpad. RedCrap seemed to do this a little better. This info might be a little out of date though. I haven't followed up on it since my old laptop caught fire last year and the new one I got came with OS X.

    10. Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux by Metrol · · Score: 1

      linux a better workstation(better hardware/games some apps).

      I know you're trying to be polite here, but that's one virtue I lack. There is so very little that seperates the end user functionality for the desktop as to not be relevant here.

      FreeBSD fully supports the very latest desktop enviroments at all times. Like with the server software, upgrading desktop applications is FAR easier. There's no waiting around for the next RedHat or Suse release because they've so brain damaged the process of upgrading as to make it about impossible for a non-guru to do without their new CD.

      Example, to update KDE...
      pkg_delete -f qt*
      portinstall kde

      That is it. You wanna install pre-compiled packages instead of compiling source? That's available too! All without vendor branding, Bluecurve desktop morphing, or any of the other annoyances and "value adds" that distros kick in.

      There are only two major weaknesses worth noting here. First, the installer is far from newbie friendly. It's not all that complex, but it definitely lacks polish.

      The second weakness is with developers who are not writing Unix apps, but instead are creating Linux apps. Stuff like CrossOver and the like suffer from this, leaving the perception that FreeBSD isn't every bit the desktop OS that Linux is. That's like saying Linux sucks because a vendor will only release code for Windows.

      I've been running FreeBSD on this laptop of mine for a couple of years now. I've always had the latest version of KDE, Gnome, Blackbox, Enlightenment, or whatever other window manager happened to suit me at the time. At no time have I ever been without the absolute latest desktop version for more than a week. And this is without the first foggiest clue as to how to manually compile any of these beasts, or having to research dependancies.

      That's only a small portion of the story. When you also consider that I've also always run the latest version of FreeBSD STABLE with only once loading an OS CD into this drive. That was for the initial installation. Absolutely every single other update has come down CVS, then about an hour or so worth of compiling. You couldn't upgrade that fast from pulling down a Linux ISO, burning the CD, and then running the installer.

      I'll grant you, Gentoo looks promising and all. Perhaps it may one day give FreeBSD a run for it's money. It doesn't have the over 8,600 ported applications, nor the maturity of code to compare today though.

      --
      The line must be drawn here. This far. No further.
  28. Not allowed! by fm6 · · Score: 1

    FPs must be content-free!

  29. Re:The issue at hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot Tiger Penis Soup and Jawa racial slurs.

    BT

  30. What a bargain! by Cruciform · · Score: 0

    For the true BSD afficionado, you'll be able to have your name sandblasted on to it and use it as a tombstone.

    With cool geek (oxymoron?) epitaphs like "Kill -9 JohnDoe" :)

  31. Well, there's something I want to know by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

    First consider that there are a lot of commercial systems out there today - old systems that have lived for eons and eons - that currently use BSD.

    Next consider that these old systems use old compilers because they haven't been updated in ages.

    Finally consider that lowly users don't usually have access rights to upgrade such systems.

    Given these three facts, it would seem that there is a need for cross-compilers from Linux and Windows (via cygwin or mingw, perhaps) to BSD, so that we can actually use these systems effectively. However, I have yet to find one good (i.e. that works) piece of information on the subject. Perhaps this isn't addressed in the book...but it is certainly an area to be addressed in SOME book about BSD.

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    1. Re:Well, there's something I want to know by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      I pondered a similar idea with respect to Gentoo. The idea of having my machine out of action for a few days while it compiled everything seemed bad, and I wonderered if it would be possible to have a windows installer that would cross compile and and dump the files on a new ext2/3 partition.

      After about 5 minutes of thought and reading gcc documentation I decided:

      1. It was possible
      2. I couldn't be bothered to implement it.
      This would be me, living the Open Source dream.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  32. Assuming a fast net connection by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someday everyone will have fast connections. That isn't today.

  33. Life is a bitch when you are dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It hurts 'n' stuff.

    1. Re:Life is a bitch when you are dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, death is painless, unless you use Linux, because then you are going straight to hell to be tormented. Probably shouldn't be much of a change from your usual dependency hell problems though.

  34. Complete Text of BOOK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    convienetly arranged for your reference:

    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    1234567890
    ,./;'[]!#$%^&*()_+?:"{}|\

    Can I have my royalty check now, please?
    1. Re:Complete Text of BOOK by ComaVN · · Score: 1

      You forgot @-=
      no check for you.

      --
      Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
  35. Re:Phaeton Sez by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I also like how we've both been modded down -1 Troll.

    I wasn't trolling, and neither were you.

    Although posting your views and ideas on /. probably won't do much, posting it in a place where anyone and everyone active in FreeBSD development can read it, and give it a fair piece of thought might have some positive effects. You may need to tone down the angst a small bit though, mostly just to get people to actually process what you're saying first, instead of jumping to a knee-jerk flame. It'll take some careful articulation, but it appears you are capable of this (just a bit miffed, understandibly) :o)

    I'm not a developer, but a user of Debian and FreeBSD, and I would really hate to see one of my two favourite OS's fade away.

    Codewise, i think FBSD is a great BSD fork and a perfect balance between the spartanness of NetBSD and the retentative nature of OpenBSD.

    All in all, i think the 3 major *BSDs have really got something valid and good, and i don't want to see any of them die.

    Especially over politics. Nothing should go down like that.

    -phaeton

  36. Some general observations by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The first thing I want to know when anybody talks about BSD is this: why precisely should I learn yet another OS? What do I get that I don't already get from Linux or Windows or QNX or Inferno or... I'm not suggesting that nobody needs to know BSD. But any review of a BSD book -- and the ensuing discussion -- should touch on the question of who should be interested in the topic.

    Enough about Herb Schildt.

    The review is painfully padded. All JSG seems to have to say is, "Looked for factual errors, couldn't find any. Liked the book, even though I disagreed with some of the advice." Throwing in a lengthy outline and a lot of useless trivia (imaginary domain names, forsooth!) to bring it up to a proper length is just lame.

    Linking to Barnes & Noble's web site hurts your credibility. I assume people do it because they give better referral rates than Amazon, and/or you're pissed about Jeff's patent hunger. Well, forget it -- I don't want to deal with B&N's cruddy web site, abysmal customer service, and absurd inventory problems.

    1. Re:Some general observations by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      But any review of a BSD book -- and the ensuing discussion -- should touch on the question of who should be interested in the topic.

      Implicit in the subject is that it would be interesting for people who want a reference for FreeBSD.

      As for the padding, I don't know what to tell you. I did look for errors without any luck; I considered that to be a good thing. I do think that using imaginary-but-unregistered domains is a bad idea, especially when some twit with less than $20 can buy one and set up a wildcard DNS record to answer queries from the book like

      dig host.domain.com
      with
      host.domain.com. IN CNAME freebsd.the.complete.reference.is.for.losers.com.

      Finally, I registered with B&N because I like them, end of story. Note that I also included a link directly to bn.com that bypassed my referral - not that it matters since it got stripped from the review anyway.

      Really, I think you're overanalyzing.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:Some general observations by ed1park · · Score: 1

      The poster has a valid question that a good review should have covered.

      Why would one be interested in learning/using FreeBSD over Linux?

  37. Re:*BSD is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Can we please move on to the rest of the series?

    • The Rise and Fall of *BSD
    • *BSD is Dead
    • *BSD Triumphant
  38. Cheaper by SophtwareSlump · · Score: 2, Informative

    Bookpool.com has this book for $30.95. (Hint: search for 'FreeBSD'). It's $49.99 at bn.com. Do the math.

  39. Excuse me but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what is that smell? It's like something died in here..

    Oh, it's the rotting corpse of BSD, being fed on by the maggots.

  40. Order Lehey's Fourth Ed of "Complete FreeBSD" by Helevius · · Score: 1
    I literally ordered my copy of the fourth edition of The Complete FreeBSD this morning from Buy.com. While I'm passing on Roderick's FreeBSD book, his Multi-Boot Configuration Handbook is good, albeit a few years old.

    An excellent FreeBSD book is Michael Lucas' Absolute BSD. His Absolute OpenBSD book arrives soon.

    Enjoy,

    Helevius

  41. FreeBSD the complete reference. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Including obituary!

  42. FreeBSD is complete by axxackall · · Score: 1
    So, finally the development of freeBSD is complete and it even has its reference.

    Now, is it dead at last?

    --

    Less is more !
  43. perhaps not for newbs, but... by xA40D · · Score: 1

    Some day in the future, the 5.x series will be considered stable and ready for use on production systems, but that's still a while off.

    I'm actually running FreeBSD on a production system already. Not a mission critical box I admit, but it's still a production system.

    I know FreeBSD 5.0 is not rated for this sort of use, but I really wanted to try out SMPng and UFS2. Can't give any benchmarks, but my subjective opinion is that the dual PIII 400 wipes the floor with the single PIII 800 box it replaced.

    I had a couple of niggles, but nothing major - no show-stoppers. Of them niggles, most have been solved by a cvsup and make kernel, followed by a reboot.

    So as long as you have half a clue (i.e. you know which errors you can safely ignore) I'd certainly recommend 5.0 for all but the most crucial applications.

    --
    Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
    1. Re:perhaps not for newbs, but... by dannycarroll · · Score: 1

      /me wonders if the SMPng stuff is for me...

      I am installing a new mailserver, I wonder if there are many advantages to SMPng (Speed etc..)

  44. Yep, mods on crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I also googled for it but didn't find anything. I think you're right. The "facts" sounded impressive and authoritative but he just invented them to get karma.

  45. My FreeBSD book collection by sremick · · Score: 1

    For those looking for kickstart their collection, here are the FreeBSD books I own:

    Absolute BSD: The Ultimate Guide to FreeBSD
    by Michael Lucas
    ISBN: 1886411743

    FreeBSD: The Complete Reference
    by Roderick W. Smith
    ISBN: 0072224096

    The Complete FreeBSD, Fourth Edition
    by Greg Lehey
    ISBN: 0596005164

    FreeBSD Unleashed (2nd Edition)
    by Brian Tiemann, Michael Urban
    ISBN: 0672324563

    1. Re:My FreeBSD book collection by jhunsake · · Score: 2, Funny

      Great! I'll be right over to break down the door and take them. Thanks!

  46. Why? by stalinvlad · · Score: 0
    Why is there such a hate of *BSD on /.?

    1. Re:Why? by Emmeau · · Score: 1

      To me it is the same discussion as Microsoft versus UNIX (which seems to be Microsoft versus Linux lately). I run several NetBSD boxes, and I never have problems with them. my fileserver runs samba on netbsd, and 150 days uptime is nothing new for me. When I had to setup a Redhat Linux box some time ago, I was unpleasantly surprised with the fact that the normal config files seemed to be missing, then again, the window like user interface brought help. It's all about what we're used. Linux seems to go slowly to what Microsoft once was (and what it was despised for). Bottomline is, it would be better if people would quit bashing other people's os's. What's the point anyways? Emm.

    2. Re:Why? by Lew+Payne · · Score: 1

      What's the point of bashing an o/s? The point is it gives people with too much time on their hands (and a chip on their shoulder, in most cases) an opportunity to espouse their ignorance.

  47. I'll second that by zogger · · Score: 1

    I'd like to see a *real* "ask slashdot" of all the differences, too. Of course it might de-evolve into a flamefest, but I'd still like to see the attempt made.

  48. Simple: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rednat isn't Linux.
    You're an idiot.
    *BSD is dying because, the only people who use it are idiots like you.

  49. how up to date? by bcrowell · · Score: 1
    One thing I'd really like to know is how up to date it is. I've just recently installed FreeBSD on two machines, and am running into a lot of problems getting sufficiently up to date information. For instance, the FreeBSD Handbook describes how to set up the KDM graphical login manager with DKE 2.0, with a cryptic note saying that if you're using KDE 2.2, you should refer to the KDE 2.2 documentation. But the CD set that came with the book is KDE 3.0... I also have FreeBSD Unleashed, which also has some of the same problems.

    It doesn't sound too good that The Complete Reference comes with a one-CD FreeBSD distribution. That isn't enough space to fit many apps on. You can buy the FreeBSD Handbook in a boxed set with a big old stack of CDs, containg loads of apps.

    1. Re:how up to date? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1
      "One thing I'd really like to know is how up to date it is".

      Ports! They are your friend.

      Keep in mind your Fbsd 5.0 cd has and some of the ports are broken so beware. This is because its only a technical release so be warned with them!

      Anyway, cd /usr/ports/x11-wm/kde-base3.1. As root in the directory type make install clean. Your done! I am using Win2k right now so I do not have the exact directory names. If you can not find kde 3.1 in the ports you can download a new ports tree. Unzip it at /usr so it will replace your current ports tree. Then you will probably find kde3.1.

      Keep in mind the only available ports tree for 5.0 is current aka beta including the link above.

      You can download a stable ports tree for the 4.x series. I currently use FreeBSD 4.8 and it comes with kde 3.1.

      You may also want to try /usr/ports/misc/instant-workstation which will install most desktop ui's, fonts, and apps. But beware this broke my 5.0 system severly. No problems with FreeBSD 4.8.

    2. Re:how up to date? by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I'm asking how up to date the book is.

  50. Last gasp - the end of the line for *BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    So why now? Why did *BSD fail? Once you get past the fact that *BSD is fragmented between a myriad of incompatible kernels, there is the historical record of failure and of failed operating systems. *BSD experienced moderate success about 15 years ago in academic circles. Since then it has been in steady decline. We all know *BSD keeps losing market share but why? Is it the problematic personalities of many of the key players? Or is it larger than their troubled personalities?

    The record is clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shroud over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.

  51. Re:Skeptical, in a trippy sort of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    .

    I thought it read, FreeLSD. And hashpot. Dopers rule.

  52. *BSD is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    It is official. Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a mere fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

    FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    Fact: *BSD is dying

  53. Ist simple... by Prohest · · Score: 1

    Those who can *BSD, those that cant Linux.

    - Linux is for the clueless -

  54. Important information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    There is one thing we have to remember: *BSD is dying. Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sold another troubled OS. Now BSDI too is out of business, and its corpse turned over to the Wind River charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyists, dabblers, and dilettantes. *BSD continues to decay, and nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time; for all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.