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A Palm for Every Purpose
fm6 writes "We can look forward to a round of niche devices running PalmOS. According to the Forbes article, we're looking at PalmOS in: a game device called Helix , a platform for developing 'customized handheld instruments' called the Meazura, and of course, the usual round of PalmOS cell phones. On the other hand, fewer manufacturers seem to show any interest in making general-purpose PalmOS PDAs. Food for thought."
Yeah, I'm sure a black and white palm OS PDA will be perfect for playing games. How about adding some scheduling capabilities to a gameboy advanced? The size is very similar, the screen is way nicer, the expansion abilities are still there, and the gameboy actually has decent games.
Also, since when are deadlines and schedules and lists of contacts "grown up" matters? I think games fit the "grown up" matters list just as easily...
The anti-salmon
...just isn't as flashy as the alternatives. It's certainly a turnoff when I'm shopping for a PDA.
A Palm for Every Purpose
I use my palm for lots of purposes, which is bad: sometimes I get callouses so when I use it for my main purpose, my p-due gets chafed.
I bought one recently.
They rock! At least once you update to 2.4.20
There seems to be a battle growing between integration and segration in the Computer Industry.
First it was the internet appliances, with the thinking that people would eventually want seperate "computers" for web browsing, typing, etc.
Now we have the idea of tablets as alternatives to laptops, and a camears being integrated into phones and PDAs.
It seems that people can't decide how many devices they want on them at any givem time. Will we ever see a balance between integration and segragation of digital devices?
Modular Redundancy--Because 4 out of 5 Nodes agree
Were not all these concepts intended for the Palm platform originally? Mobile computing has come a long way in the past 5 years, with more and more powerful processors leading to smaller and better things. Where is the PalmOS headed? The place it's always been going- to provide a comprehensive interface to perform certain computing functions on an ultra-portable level. The introduction of more/enhanced features/functions/uses is only following the initial path set by mobile computing.
The watches, already mentioned on slashdot.
Amongst other places: here
graspee
I just bought a Nokia 3650 which has enough average person pda functionality to satisfy me: calendar, todo, phonebook...christ. it runs symbian and java midlets so there are a whole lot of apps out for it, including doom ;)
point is...ive always been interested in a pda to use as an organizer, but theres no way in hell im carrying that bulk in addition to my phone.
now that problem is solved. I'm usually against multipurpose devices ie : vhs/dvd players...but space is a concern with things you carry.
Basically my phone is a phone, a digital camera (640x480),a gameboy(has emulator), a pda...and more (mp3...) and of course it has internet connectivity.
I am helping with a computer science course involved with microcontrollers. We basicly teach ARM and controlling IO. I was just wondering if teaching assembly is old hat now days where handhelds come with OS's capable of doing all that for you, and where handlelds are today washing machines and tosters will be tommorow.
So is there a point in teaching low level coding or should microcontrollers be programmed in higher level languages?
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
On top of that, the button layout is just idiotic for gaming. It looks like four buttons are arranged for use as a D-pad, with three more buttons positioned at the D-pad's center, left, and right, respectively.
That'll be clunky as hell for any game that involves using more than the D-pad plus one other button - you'll have to use both hands for action buttons, or even both hands for both directions and actions. Which is exactly why action games like Dreadling (a 3D shooter) haven't taken off on PalmOS devices.
You'd think if they were designing a handheld for gaming, they'd take the time to give it an interface that's actually usable for gaming.
my right one in particular.
I'm smarter than the average bear.
The $99 Zire is an example of the non-general purpose PDA concept. Zire is only for scheduling, to-do lists, and an address book. It seems many were buying loaded PDAs and ended up using it as an organiser...
i am still going to hold off until microsoft comes out with a collar-based PDA with GPS capabilities. if they were cheap (or simply mandatory) i think everyone would grow to love them.
XP collar edition does not sound that far away, i am going to embrace the "freedom to innovate" and hope i don't catch anything.
Summary of this article...
Hey - you can get all different kinds of Palm devices! There's one for playing games and there's another one for doing science stuff! Palm and Sony make Palm devices for use as organisers! Cool!
Tune in next week for "There's these things called peripherals that you can plug into your computer to make it do stuff!"
What? You mean I'm actually getting paid for this?! This is like, so cool!
All things in moderation; including moderation
good point, I wasn't even thinking of the button arrangement. The only thing I can possibly think of as far as advantages is the possibility of MMPORPGs with the ability to get online w/ the palms...there's also the wireless multiplayer abilities with IR ports...but I think that nintendo will probably be working on that aspect...if it isn't already available in the SP...I'm not sure.
The anti-salmon
It'd limit games to two players, and force those two players to sit facing each other and hold their PDA's in the right position.
If I get wireless gaming on my PDA, I want it over Bluetooth or 802.11b/g.
It would have cost them next to nothing to have a left and right button as well as the up and down. This wouldn't have hurt its organizer functionality at all and would have allowed it to play games more easily. As it was the controls for many Palm based games were terrible hacks that made the games less enjoyable. I am not saying that it would have become a great gaming platform early on, but it wouldn't have hurt it to have two more measily buttons. The sad thing is that it seems so obivious. How did they miss it?
Lasers Controlled Games!
When the PDA really took fire three years ago, we all began to speculate that everyone would have a handheld and would go everywhere with it. My how times have changed and not necessarily for the worse. I have a Palm IIIxe and find myself not taking it to all the places I used too. It got to the point that is was very bulky and I found I didn't take it out as much so I left it at home. However, when I was in school I used all the time. Hooked up with one of the Palm keyboards I could take all my notes in class and not have to worry about lugging a laptop.
The simple fact of the matter is, handhelds are starting to go back into their niche and take the place of paper where it makes sense. Currently, we have an internally produced application that interfaces with our system of record to update inspections for home sites. It makes a lot of sense because the inspector no longer has to use a pen and pad and we can process draws for borrowers at any point in the week instead of waiting for the inspectors to come back in on Thursday.
I predict you will see more and more of this as time progresses. The time for everyone having a PDA with 20 applications has passed. Its now Blackberrys (wireless email, calendar, contact info) and/or hardened PDAs for every day, one to two applications use.
When can I get one of those cool strip readers for my Palm? I also need a cassette drive!
Ross Winn "not just another ugly face..."
We need more cell phones that run Palm OS like the SPH-i500 it's the size of a normal phone but with all the palm stuff built in
Of course the SPH-i600 would kick it's ass, but I don't think that will ever make it to market
Was I the only one who read the title, and thought PORN?
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
From the site: The Pebbles project is exploring how Personal Digital Assistants (PDAs), such as a device running PalmOS, or a device running the Microsoft Windows CE or Pocket PC operating systems, can be used when they are communicating with a "regular" personal computer (PC), with other PDAs, and with computerized devices such as telephones, radios, microwave ovens and factory equipment.
You realize, they are building a new device geared towards gaming. Not using the old design.
Btw, all you need for pacman is a 4 directional game pad. For legend of zelda's (except wind waker (maker?) and 64) you needed a digital pad. Super mario world, f-zero, final fantasy, sonic the hedge hog.. they don't need the analog stick
Now they may not be YOUR favourite games, but they were hits that many people will play.
--
"I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo
Well, almost, they aren't remotely as innovative as Macs are.
Palm tried to ride out the "got there first" mentality by charging WTFM (way to f-in much) for their device which had limited functionality and cheesy, if not hostile interoperability with the PC and the 'net. Since they chose to charge so much and give so little, they didn't gain the market share that being there first would have afforded them and now they are left wondering WTFH (what the F happened) to their market.
Most people I know who are looking for a PDA don't even consider a Palm device, they go straight for the WinCE ones.
Just the way it is.
You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.
My palms have enough purpose as it is... Patty cake you sickos, not that, I swear.
The following abridged list of features is from a Palminfocenter article
Don't worry, it's a gaming platform. And unless they're stupid, they'll have a D-pad on the left and buttons on the right, like a real controller.
If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
The Sony Palm PDAs are very nice. I'm currently using a Clie PEG-T665C. It has MP3 playback, memory stick expansion (which can also be used for WiFi), 320x320 TFT screen, jog dial, 16M memory, and a 66 MHz. Dragonball.
So far, I've been extremely happy with it! If I were a new company thinking of getting into Palm devices, I'd be very intimidated by Sony's products.
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
Actually, check out the video at the following URL:
http://www.godoplay.com/tapwave2.html
They show a brief glimpse of a guy using the hardware itself. He's holding it so that the screen is landscape... Looks like a layout similar to the origninal GBA, with Dpad and action buttons on either side of the screen. Plus there are clips from a couple of games. They look like they're in 3d. There is a Spy Hunter and a Tony Hawk game... Graphics appear to be as good as a Gamecube. Beats the hell out of the GBA's Super Nintendo-style graphics.
If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
I've had a few Palm devices. My favorite for gaming is the Handspring Visor Prism.
I play mostly old-school games like "Galaga", "Spy Hunter", "Defender" and "Frogger". For these games the Prism is great. It has a good, 8-bit color screen and a decent key layout. I know the operating system is on the old side and it doesn't have Bluetooth.
If the target audience is people in their thirties who like to play games, there is fair chance that the games they want to play are retro games like "Defender", which the Prism is totally sufficient for. It is a great PDA in many other respects too.
Handspring is selling refurbished Prisms at their web site for $169.
My Palm has been working it its own niche market since I was about 13...
Did anyone else notice that the music in that video was an obvious ripoff of No Doubt's "Hella Good"? Creepy...
First post is passe. There are 10-30 new topics on slashdot every day. Every one of these has a first post. It's common. It's cheap.
The really "in" thing is getting +5 insightful posts.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
There is, IMHO, a "holy grail" of handheld devices, and it would contain...
1. a cell-phone
2. 16-bit color Nintendo and/or Sega compatibility
(maybe emulated MAME-like?)
3. embedded Linux
4. 80G hard drive ala I-pod.
5. Can easily fit in my pocket...
6. 802.11g
Build it, and I will come...nothing else makes sense to me
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
actually, the gba is way better than the snes. newer games rival the ps1. v-rally or crazy taxi certainly look extremely good.
Alphasmart has a cool product, and laptop that uses the Palm OS , the Dana .The NY Times gave it a great review, there is a PDF version of the review on their website.
For a second I thought that the title was "A Palm for Everyone". Free Palm as in free (belgian) beer : Palm
I think that one of the things that may need to be specified is that there are two primary ways to use a PDA. You can use it as an application specific device (ASD), or you can use it as a general computing device (GCD).
What PalmOS is doing is expanding their sales into more ASD, as they discover that the market seems to be saturated for GCD type PDAs at the level that Palm, Sony and a couple of other companies have been selling.
In all honesty, WinCE (whatever version) and Embeded Linux (in a variety of forms) with appropriate hardware make better GCD based PDAs than PalmOS (in current implementations) does. That may change with PalmOS 6.0, depending upon how much of what was in BeIA that they stripped out and or replaced.
On the other hand, if you need a device for inventory management, or a phone list on a cell phone, or for package tracking, etc. the lower hardware costs associated with a PalmOS device can significantly reduce the cost of each device, making a device that you can sell more of to your customers, because you can pass the savings on, or draw more profit off of the ongoing service charges.
Then again, who knows what will happen with PalmOS 6.0. All the cost savings may be out the window.
-Rusty
You never know...
They are making new hardware for this. They are using the OS.
--
"I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo
Here's the no ad version of the story:
h _print.html
/. editors were smart enough to post the ad free version.. guess not.
http://www.forbes.com/2003/05/08/cx_ah_0508tentec
I would've hoped the
"You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
Palm is not perfect, but you're wrong in a couple respects. Palm still dominates the market. They are still the single largest manufacturer in the entire handheld space. Their platform, PalmOS, which they license, also has more than 50% of the market. The pocketPC platform collectively fights over something around 30 to 40%--the remainder occupied by Epoch and other platforms--despite the best efforts of Microsoft who has spent an inordinate amount of money trying to overcome them and has the advantage of controlling MS Outlook/Exchange Server on the desktop (that many people depend on on their PCs).
Palm's success was due largely to their narrow focus, they defined what the modern PDA is and then built it, not by trying to be everything to all people. What you call a failure is not a failure in this vision, but rather it was the result of a good understanding of precisely what a PDA is and what is practical. They didn't produce even more expensive gadgets to compete with PocketPC because the timing was questionable and because their utility was too. There have been dozens of competing platforms that have failed precisely because they tried to do too much while Palm stayed true to their course and continued to optimize their platform (which HAS improved over the years). Look at the early generation PocketPCs, that Palm supposedly lost market share to. Most of them were pretty mediocre devices--most of them were bought by early adopter types that have also bought numerous other PDAs. Yes, a good number of people bought them, but it's hardly been a proven money maker. These devices are still inferior to Palm as PDAs--the battery life still needs work, the usability is significantly worse than Palms, they're still bulkier, and so on.
This fancier concept of a PDA, really handheld computers, is only starting to become economically and technically viable--even if the market for the idea itself is still unproven. If you take a look at what Palm and their licensees have done lately, then you'll see that they're very competitive with PocketPC even in this emerging high end market. Have you tried the new "smart" phones? I have a Tungsten W--I love it--GSM phone, GPRS data, built in keyboard, marginally faster CPU (but generally fast enough for what it is), and a good form factor. How about the Tungsten C? It very very slick too (built in WiFi, fast processor, keyboard, sound, etc). How about the Zire 71? Built in camera (640x480), high res color screen, sound, etc--all priced at less than 300 bucks (with space to drop the price too I'm sure). I don't see anything that really competes, that isn't a total hack, from PocketPC or anything else. I predict that Palm is going to take "back" much of what you think they've lost in the handheld space and even from their PalmOS licensees with their latest generation of hardware, namely the new Zire and their integrated wireless concept.
Well, they did! How hard is it to design a good little game box? Judging from the aimless floundering of those that would aspire to, it must be DAMN HARD! But really, come on!
Here's how to make a smash hit palm-based game unit.
1) Start with the new gameboy SP
2) Add touch-sensitive screen
3) Put two more buttons above A and B for game controls (I always wanted four buttons on the face of the game boy) and keep the L and R buttons. They're good too.
4) Add a "drop to OS" button, maybe near the SP's 'start' button
5) Graffitti area show/hides as needed
6) Add more RAM, make MP3 playing built-in, OPTIONS for hard drive, wifi, etc.
A faster proccie is always nice too.
(PS: Please excuse the relative inelegance of this post - I'm hung over. And no, this is not my sig...)
Plus there are clips from a couple of games.
Those may come directly from either the PS2 or the Gamecube. The video is pure marketing: they quickly show something that *might* be the device but they don't really show anything tangible. Although it may have a 3D engine, I am still skeptic until I see some further proof, like a video of the device running the game.
I'm not saying it can't be done. But as it is the advertisement is highly suspicious.
The ENIAC Demo Competition
Palm is just like Microsoft, only that their software is even worse. As far as I'm concerned, Palm isn't cool, and my m505, which I bought a few years ago, is probably the last Palm handheld I will ever own.
Don't worry, it's a gaming platform. And unless they're stupid, they'll have a D-pad on the left and buttons on the right, like a real controller.
Why is it that the D-pad is on the left and the buttons on the right, are all gamers left handed? I wish all d-pads were like my gravis that can be switched from left-handed to right-handed.
Your question was asked as an or, but it really isn't.
Those who are capable of programming in assembly -- even for a made up architecture -- tend to have a better understanding of how computers work. It is my belief that someone who can not learn a simple assembly set and implement algorithms in it will find themselves out of their league in any language sooner or later. It is just much more difficult to realize someone lacks a basic understanding in Java than in, say, Cardiac because there are so many levels of abstraction for them to accidentally find a way for something to work.
I worked with a guy once who didn't understand how to iterate through nested lists.
As to the second part of your question, I suspect there will always be microcontrollers that need to be programmed in assembly. They will keep getting smaller as other chips become more complex.
Now try writing down a phone number while you're talking over it! :)
I can't help but feel that what makes a good palm-held computer makes a crappy phone, and what makes a good phone makes a crappy palm-held computer. Among other things, the physical profiles are incompatible; the Palm has to be wide enough to write on, and the phone has to be narrow enough to be comfortable.
Nope. I'll take the smallest phone I can that's comfortable, and a reasonably sized palm, and rely on them linking together to exchange data.
Consider my Samsung SCH3500, which was the most popular phone in the U.S. when I bought it a couple years ago. It can't even talk to a Palm without an expensive, hard-to-find serial cable. Plus special software to handle the data format gap. But it's hardly suprising -- the different features within this phone are not integrated, so why should they give any thoughts to external devices.
For some reason American cell companies seem to think "integration" is a dirty word. Why else is IRDA a common feature in other countries, but not here?
Fortunately, American companies are beginning to see the promise of Bluetooth. I hunger for the day that I can afford to switch phones and put a Bluetooth adapter in my m515. I'll never be offline again!
But I intend to stay away from CDMA and TDMA providers. American providers like these protocols better than the more standard GSM, because it allows them to cram more calls into one tower. But try sending data over these providers! Clumsy and expensive.
GSM provides a simple, always-on protocol called GPRS, where you get charged by the amount of bandwidth you use, not the time you're online. GSM providers used to be hard to find, but no more. I think that other providers will come to regret their shortsightedness.
I notice that all the images on their website are rendered. They don't have exact diagrams for their modules (ie. so you can figure out how much stuff you can pack in there). They have only recently licensed PalmOS (May 6th I believe). It looks like vaporware to me. Well crafted vapor, but just the same I'd like to see some real units.
bcl
Remember Lexington Green!
I am fed up with PalmOS. It takes too much efforts to develop anything for it. As for buying - the market of software for PalmOS is very limited (even less then Linux's one) and has very few of really good programs (less than a dozen). Besides, my eyes are crying after watching to palm screen longer than 5 minutes, while my fingers a sick of drawing text on it.
Laptop doesn't exceed the size of palmtop too much. I bring my Powerbook almost always with me in my backpack, which is usually with me, while its accessories are in my car, which is my usual transportation mean. Sure its a bit heavier than PalmVx, although I am not exactly a weak person, physically. But as a benefit - it's a real general-purpose computer, with dual-boot between MacOS and Linux, with virtually unlimited ability of easily writing my own applications, with local web server and database, with various multimedia tools, various content and document authoring tools. I use it for presentations, for demonstrations, for diagnostic, for training, for learning, for surfing, for data gathering and even for some AI-based data processing. And it's big enough to save my eyes and my fingers from any potential health problems typical for Palm users.
So, that's a general-purpose computer device.
Less is more !
I snagged a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 from a WIZ that was closing nearby for $200. Amazing device.. how often do you see a PDA run linux? As it matches your wish list.. not too bad! 1. sorry no cell phone. 2. Yes, you can run mame and emulators on it. 3. kernel 2.4.6 embedix 4. maybe not. but you can have up to a gig in secure digital slot and probably more for the compact flash 5. sure. 6. wifi via compact flash 7. gps support
Marketspeak often understates things this way. Interbase is marketed as an "embedded DBMS" even though it's a perfectly good general-purpose scalable DBMS. But calling it "embedded" plays to the strengths of the product (small footprint, easy to administer, fast) that correspond to weaknesses in products like Oracle and SQL Server.
gba 3d games suck, just look how the textures wobble doddle, and actual cars or other characters are faked with sprites and thus are drawn on top of everything and not occluded by walls etc. which should occlude them.
What battle? Internet appliances didn't work, consoles are becoming more PC like (see Xbox), and PCs have gained the ability to play movies and music. It seems to me that there has been a STRONG trend towards integration. As components get cheaper and smaller, it becomes so easy to integrate new features that even if they're not used by 99% of the population, it's still worth doing. The only "battle" seems to be that many buisness people seem to think that specialized devices are a good idea even though they're not (Forbes magazine was predicting a move to specialized devices)
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
At the PalmSource Dev Con, Weblink Wireless and HuneTec were discussing a forthcoming Palm OS-based pager for WW's ReFLEX network. The H-500 looks kind of like a color RIM Blackberry and an iPaq H1910 smushed together, but it runs on Palm OS 5.2. IIRC, it's supposed to be out in late 2003 with an SDK out in June.
portable LCD + palm = easy pr0n!!!
After reading some of the comments, some of you guys need a 2-year old with you when you leave the house. I'm sure laptop in a backpack, gameboy or mp3 player is nice, but the freedom of being able to have a phone and a b&w notepad built in, aka cell phone with a pda, makes live so much easier.
I never cared for PDAs, but I've definitely changed my opinion after having to take the drinking bottle, diper bag, & etc. for a 10 minute trip down to the grocery store!!
Ridiculous? T-Mobile charges $5 a megabyte. That's too expensive for file transfers or heavy graphics -- but the connection's too slow for that anyway. If you just use the connection to read the news or follow slashdot (in low-graphcis mode of course), it shouldn't cost that much.
I'd much rather have an integrated cell phone and pager than I would an integrated cell phone and PDA
You're aware that many celphones are capable of pager-style number reception, right?
And, of course, SMS.
This isn't the fault of the technology, so much as it is of little companies that refuse to play together - Why would Company A allow Company B to transmit pages over it's airtime, when you could be eating up your minutes, instead? Likewise, why would company B let Company A have your pager telephone number, when it's all they've got to keep you as a customer?
(Heck, I'd rather have a pager/PDA than a cell phone/pda, too.)
That idea, as they say, came and went.
Global Access InfoMitt
Glenayre @ctivelink
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