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When Copy Protection Fails
StArSkY writes "The Age in Australia has an article today explaining the experiences of a Melbourne guy who purchased the Norah Jones CD tht is 'copy protected.' Unfortunately the only way he could listen to the CD on Apple computers or Intel computers running XP was to copy the CD. This sort of defeats the purpose of the copy protection in the first place. Serious yet amusing at the same time."
When does he get out of jail?
If all the machines he tried the CD on did not recognize, load or play it how did he manage to make a copy?
Return the defective CD under his country's consumer rights law. If enough people do this, then the companies might rethink the whole idea. Many people use DVD players as a CD for their stereo systems. Why should a CD not work in them?
I had to do a double-take on reading the name of that organisation. Needless to say I was greatly disappointed when I reread it. That h just looks so similiar to an r.
I had my credit card out to join and everything.
cheap web site hosting from 3 rocks a month.
Those music disks are not 'copy protected', they are 'playback crippled'.
The best (or worst, depending of if you are an exec of a user) the record companies can do is to make their products a little bit more inconvenient to make copies of. They do this by making it more difficult (but never ever impossible) or time consuming to make copies. That is all.
To call it 'protection' is like wrapping your wiener in toilet paper and calling it a condom. It's stupid, it doesn't get yhe job done and it's only uncomfy. (I think, haven't tried it.)
...um...like...a sig...
My Warcraft III EULA (and I'm sure others -- that was just a random selection from my game collection) explicitly states that I have the right to make one backup copy.
Well, guess what -- that disc is copy protected. So, in order to excercise my authorized right under the EULA, I have to defeat the copy protection...
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Eventually they'll resort to shipping blank CDs to thwart copying, and expect you to just stare at the pretty CD jacket while pretending you're listening to it...
Bought a copy protected CD, which was from EMI. Couldn't listen to it so I made a copy for myself. Then I mailed the original CD back to EMI with note saying what I had to do just to listen the CD and here's the original back, I won't need it, my 20 euros for fighting piracy.
The CD(s) concerned are protected by EMI's favourite copy protection system "Copy Control". You can tell by the little C.D.A.T.A logo on the data-side inside rim. We've been getting these CDs regularly at the radio atation I work for, and for computer previewing they're a real pain.
The way the protection works is by adding tracks (containing corrupt CD-R data) after Track 1 (containing the audio data). This is fine for AudioCD players because they only read Track 1. Standard CD-ROM drives also have no problem, because they ignore the data they can't understand (I think it's a form of corrupt extra session data).
CD-R/CD-RW/Combo drives however attempt to find these extra sessions/writeable areas and when they fail, assume the CD is corrupted and eject it.
What a fantastic copy control scheme, huh? Can't read the disk with a burner, but you can certainly copy it by doing a CD-ROM -> CD-RW copy. And then you can play the burnt copy. Ingenious.
I also wrote to EMI and to News Limited (in response to an earlier story they ran) about my troubles, but neither cared (possibly because I hadn't purchased the CDs in question, they were radio use only).
...I was waiting for that CD to come back in at work before I could buy it again. But since I lsiten to all of my music on my Mac, I guess I won't be buying it. Or, worst case, I'll just download the tracks off of iTunes Music Store and make my own CD.
Yay, copy-protection technology; costing you more business than it will "save" you.
Jay
Of course, we should boycott artists and record companies that use copy protection (playback protection?). But we should do it in a way that causes the most inconvenience for the stores and record companies:
The store is obliged to pay the refund when the product doesn't work. A "copy protected" disc is not a CD, even if it's (misleadingly) sold as one.
I heard that the latest, copy protected, Robin Williams album was sold in more than 100.000 copies in my country. No more than 10 discs were returned. Let's make that number higher!
Incorrect.
Our copyright law is rather anal. Contrary to popular belieft you can't copy something for personal use at all. No exceptions.
For you to copy ANY music requires permission from the songwriter, the musicians and the distributor as they each hold a copyright for a seperate part of the article (music, lyrics and the sound recording itself).
That being said, if someone infringes someone's copyright it's a civil action rather than a criminal action (except when its a for-profit). We also have something similar to the DMCA except it only enables civil suits (ie, if I remove DeCSS from a DVD the DVD company come sue me if they feel I'm doing anything nasty).
For more information see the Copyright Council's web page and also their fact sheet on music and copyright.
And this it why:
Copy protection only works in systems that have been designed from the ground up to be copy protected.
Any video or audio that is decodeable on a PC can be hijacked from that same PC.
The only way to protect your data is to control the hardware. The only reason DVDs are hard to copy is because you can't get a DVD-r that has the same capacity.
the MPIAA is in a much better situation compared to the RIAA considering cd audio is already good enough, that consumers don't really feel the need to switch to a higher quality version of the CD. Where on the other hand, DVDs are much better than VHS tapes, and have the added benefit of being harder to copy.
He who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man. He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a fool.
they can't yet put copy "protection" on an analog signal; which everything that makes sound must eventually send to an output. then we have a beautiful little thing called an analog input that makes ALL copy protection pointless.
if the primary purpose for the copy "speedbump" is to keep the MP3's off file sharing networks i.e. Kazaa, then it's not going to work. there is someone out there patient enough to encode in real time while listening to the cd.
the problem thw RIAA and Co. face is: the file sharing networks - not the consumer that wants to listen to his/her new cd on the computer or make a backup copy because the originals always get all scratched up on the floorboard of the car.
I listen to most of my music at work using my PC and my headphones. So my wife recently got me the new Phil Collins CD ... for me to find out that I can't listen to it on a PC.
All that this achieves is that I'm being pushed towards downloading the tracks so that I can listen to them. At that point, what stops me from not being the CD since it won't work for me? The record companies will end up shooting their own foot off ...
I have nothing against buying reasonably priced CD's. However, I do not think that 20 euros is reasonable (although Switzerland is fortunately quite a bit cheaper than that).
Maybe I should write to Phil himself .. what do artists think about it?
Cheers.
are they (record companies) so scared? No one wants to rip them off. Most people are going to buy their albums, regardless of format. Sure, some people will steal their stuff, and I have grabed some albums from friends that I never bought, but that;s how it works. I buy most of my music, but I have bought bad music and I can't get a refund.
I guess my point is, they should really stop alienating their customers. I have never seen a business model that treats their customers so badly. People are still going to buy your albums! We made copies of cassette tapes, we're going to make copies of CD's and were giong to make copies of MP3's. Get over it, it's how it works. You're still going to make so much money! Get over it, ok?
They're probably spending more money fighting this stupid war on whatever than they are going to save. All they are doing is making people resent them and want to steal from to the point where smart people are going to keep cracking their stuff and become passionate about distributing it all. Another day, another enemy for the RIAA. Because of their actions, I would wadger that they have made many people angry to the point where they don't want to buy their albums, where they want to steal their albums and frankly, it's a war they will not win. You cannot go to war with your consumers. They are your friends!
Think about it, what other business would do this? If you walked into a store and they started accusing you of stealing and would only sell you things in such a way where you were oblivious to most of what it contained and treated you like shit all around, who would come back? I'm getting to the point where I'm going to want to steal all their music, just to spite them.
In short, they need to settle down and just accept the market as it is. They choose a digital format because it is VERY cheap to make, thus increasing profits one billion fold and yet cannot cope with the fact that this cheap medium will also allow people to send a "free" album out to someone from time to time.
And lets face it, I would bet most albums people download etc are albums they probably would not buy in the first place. How many play lists of people have you seen that have tons of songs you know they would never buy anyways?
Anyways, the main point is that the customer just BOUGHT the album, WTF are you doing? They B-O-U-G-H-T it!
AHHHH!!
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
See also
http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/copycontrol.html
How I patched cdparanoia to copy Avril Lavigne in order to play it under linux.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
If the public has their food and drinks and gladiator games, they are easily controlled.
Analogically speaking, EMI just messed up the gladiator games.
Unrest will ensue.
(Gee, I wish I knew the EXACT quote and which Roman Emperor said it....)
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Probably said already, but I don't have time to read all the comments:
Get with it guys, dust off the old record player and buy your new stuff on vinyl! Works for me, except I need a clean-room to store my music collection. Oh yeah, and it weighs about a ton.
Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.
It's specifically mentioned in our (AU) copyright law.
It's actually quite interesting if you read it. The law makes exemptions for "fair dealing" and then goes on to specifically mention some things that are included in "fair dealing". However the wording (to me at least) doesn't indicate that the list is an exclusive.
I think you'd have every chance to stand up in court and argue that making a backup copy of a CD you own is "fair dealing".
The reason that hasn't happened is because in the real world the record companies have no interest in stopping you doing that anyway. There is no money to be gained and they don't want to cause a weakening of the copyright law by creating a precedent that expands "fair dealing".
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Dead serious... not impressed.
I purchase the CD and try to play it at work on Windows 2000 and it just isn't recognised... WinAmp insisting that no audio CD was in the drive.
So to listen to the album on my PC I just downloaded the bloody thing from alt.binaries.sound.mp3.complete_cd
Not illegal in any way since I now own the original... but bloody stupid and makes me realise that the only way I may now enjoy EMI releases at work will be to download a copy... which really defeats everything their system is trying to stop.
'Tis a mad, mad world.
I wonder whether this "CD" bore the Compact Disc logo we all know and love. If it did then perhaps he should email Philips and let them know - Philips don't (or at least didn't) take too kindly copy-proctected cd's using the compact disc logo. This is because by baring the logo it claims to be a proper "Red Book" cd, but isn't because it has copy protection.
Does anyone actually know who (if anyone) in Philips to bother about this? As I've just discovered that a supposed "cd" (it bears the logo) that I own is copy protected and I'm in a record label bashing mood.
Before being allowed to purchase a CD you will have to have your house RIAA DRM certified. RIAA operatives will removed from your house any equipment that could possibly be used to infringe upon their artists copyrights. Illegal items include, CD duplicators, PCs, Tape recorders, Video Recorders, wax disks, loudspeakers (you NOT your neighbours have bought the right to enjoy our music). Music shall be listened to through a single (approved) mono-earpiece (some listeners with stereo ear-pieces have abused the priviliedge and let others 'sample' the music using the spare ear bud).
After your music purchase an RIAA representative (probably a student trying to pay off $97 trillion) will sit with you at all times to ensure your compliance with our terms and conditions.
"We hope you enjoy your music purchase and continue to support your record industry"
p.s. Squeal little piggy!
But far, far worse than any of those crimes....
I'm a girl too! See naked chicks in my journal!
Lower the price of CD's!
Ok, it costs a lot to make a CD. You need to spend a time in the studio. (expensive) You need to make sure it souds right. (not so expensive, I guess) And you need to promote it (expensive).
Then why in the name of all holy cows does the anniversary Dark Side of the Moon cost the same as the newest girl/boy band CD?
You don't need to record it, you don't need to promote it. (Have you seen much Pink Floyd on MTV lately?) You just remix it and press it. Voila! You have a great CD that people will buy, even though they have at least 2 versions already of that album!
I don't give a rat ass anymore about RIAA...
Copy protection licencing is sufficiently expensive and a hassle to the producers that's it's only used on 'popular' artists. So take that as a hint and listen to 'unpopular' ones.
Spend your CD money on world, jazz, classical, flamenco, folk, blues, celtic, indie or anything else outside the mainstream - but just stay away from the popular artists. There's a vast world of great music out there to be discovered - help out the artists, broaden your horizons, and give the big music companies a kick in the pants. Furthermore if they see their cd sales drop, but cd sales in general rise they're not stupid enough that they won't draw conclusions.
One issue that people don't see with these discs is that even if they work on whatever hardware you have now that doesn't mean it will work in what you buy later.
With a CD you know it will work in anything with a CD logo on it. With these things you could find in five years time that you don't have any hardware that will play it.
When my bog standard CD player dies I'm unlikely to replace it. I already have two PCs, an xBox and a DVD player that should be perfectly capable of playing my music but won't these discs don't work (or at least the one disc I tried).
If particular versions of copy protection are only employed for a short period time then future hardware manufacters aren't going to worry too much about compatibility with every single different type.
That's why I took 100th Window back and why I haven't bought one of these discs since. And I used to buy 3-4 CDs a month.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
The thing that seems to be missed most in these discussions is loosing and regaining your purchased material. When I buy my music I buy a LICENSE to listen to that music. Lets face it, the cd cost a couple of bucks, where does the rest of the money go. The pysical media cost next to nothing.
I was unlucky enough to have almost my entire cd collection stolen (yeah no insurance but there u go) and I'll put it straight: There is no way in hell that im going to fork out the hundreds of dollars to get them back again. I have already paid for my license to listen to the material I purchased a long time earlier. I am merely regaining the physical media to execute that license.
But that makes me a criminal? Well, bring it on!
How if you want to have fun when entering Australian customs, if they ask if you are a convicted felon, asnwer "Oh, is that still a requirement?". But be ready for no sense of humor and a quick return flight.
Remember, it's an ollllld joke.
Infuriate left and right
I can't believe that the recording industry believes that locking down CDs, making them less versitile, and restricting where you can play them is going to make them a more attactive product than a free MP3. Please, at least give me some reason to feel guilty. I suppose the dinosaurs trapped in the La Brea tar pits thrashed around a bit before they went under as well.....
from the report:
:
.. could someone explain to EMI how hard it is to use an embedded player on the CD itself when your computer system cant even see the CD ?
"Once there, he tried to listen to his new acquisition, using his Titanium laptop which runs version 10.2 of Apple's operating system. There was no response, with the disc not being recognised.
One can't blame Marovitch for not trying - he tried to listen to the disc on a workstation which runs Windows 2000 and then on one which runs Windows XP.
In both cases, he got no joy. The disc was not picked up by the system. "
from EMI
"As the technology was created to be played through its own embedded player on the CD itself and not any other player that is currently available to the PC/Apple, it will cause anomalies if played in any other manner."
Now
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
I had to do this with a CD last year because of some old CD players we have at home. I e-mailed Sen. Hatch about it and explained in detail what I had to do and why I had to do it. I then pointed out that the music industry was 'forcing' me to make copies of their CDs in order to be able to use what I had paid for.
I also told him that I copy every single computer CD that I get and only use the copies so that my originals won't get ruined. I would do the same with DVDs if I could. I don't steal software, but I copy everything I have. Luckily, I pointed out, I am knowledgeable enough to get around all of these copy protection schemes; but most people aren't and it is illegal for me to help them.
Everyone should write their congresscritters and legislators about their experiences like this so that they will be more aware of the problem. Be a squeaky wheel.
Those who open their minds too far often let their brains fall out.
I took it home, and...you guessed it. It wouldn't play with WMP 8, Real, or WinDVD in any of 4 drives I tried on two machines. I did find some old shareware player that would play it, but it was a crap player, and I couldn't stand the jumpiness, digital blocking, and other fine artifacts whilst I watched.
So, I trotted it's little shiny ass right back to Walmart, stood in line for 20 minutes, and, after reading the "no refunds on opened CDs, DVDs or Software" about 412 times, I got to the front of the line. I handed the 17 year old girl my DVD, which she inspected closely.
"Yeah, it's been opened," I said. "It's ok. I just need a refund." "Uhhhh, sir? We don't really...ummm...do refunds...on...ummm...opened...uhhh...stuff like this."
I grinned, and said, "That's ok. Just need my money back, thanks. It doesn't work." I was thinking to myself, how do I explain DVD copy protection to this girl without making her head explode or having her gnaw her arm off to escape?
"Well, I can't really...ummm...give a refund on this. Would you like to exchange it for another one?" "Nope," I said with a smile. "Just my money back. Thanks."
She pointed to the tiny sign about no refunds on DVDs and said "Well, we have a policy..." I interrupted her with my best Fargo-esque Minnesota accent, "Hey, you betcha. Y'know...Yeah, I see your big sign right there...yeah, that one. Hey, that's great. 'Satisfaction Guaranteed' Wow. That sign's gotta be 12 feet tall, huh? Dontcha figure that sorta makes this little one here not really all that important?" She stared at me blankly (We're in Portland, not Minnesota, and I don't think she got it.)
"Yeah, ummm...I'm gonna have to call my manager." "Not a problem," says I, with a chorus of groans from the people in line behind me...So, the manager shows up, and she's gotta be at LEAST 19, with a cool ring of keys around her wrist. GOTTA be important stuff, huh? The clerk hands her the DVD with a conspiratorial look at me..."it's been opened..." she whispers quietly to the manager.
So, after a 5 minute diatribe about the horrors of this copy protection crap, she just shook her head, "We can't return this." At which point I pulled out my cell phone (which was off), punched 911 so she could see me, and said, "Are you suure? I've got nothing else to do tonight."
So, I got my money back.
Return your DEFECTIVE DVDs and CDs. If we don't, all we're doing is encouraging them!
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
The long-time stance of the Slashdot crowd has been that if digital music distribution were made available to bands, they'd see more of the revenue from music sales. I was listening to the radio last night and heard the band "Cold" talking about MP3s. Their stance seemed to be that the money earned from CD sales is owed to the record labels for the work they do promoting the music, pushing the concerts (something that apparently generates a lot of revenue for the band), and making sure their songs get played on the radio.
This seemed completely backwards to me. Cold has basically bought into the line that they need the RIAA for promotion, and they're willing to give up their revenue from CD sales in exchange. It was the first time I'd heard a band actually come out and say this.
I think the digital music battle has a long way to go if artists fail to understand that what digital distribution offers is a way to break free from the record labels. I can't believe that so many artists are willing to give up their CD revenue in exchange for promotion and production costs as long as they still get their take of the concert sales.
Tried Real Jukebox that came with my Yamaha CD-F1, wouldn't recognize the disc in the drive. "Hmm..."
Look at the back of the CD case and in 4 pt font there is something about "Made with Macromedia." Now I'm mad.
First I used Clone CD to make a virtual CD image on the hard disk. This program is great, for making backup copies of CDs or allowing you to play a game with "Please insert original CD in drive D:". It is $40 well spent.(I'm in no way affiliated with elby.)
Now I had a readable image. Next I used CDEx to remove the copy protection from the image and create a Redbook compliant CD. CDEx is free from SourceForge. Hat's off to an impressive program.
Ahhh... Now I can listen to my new CD while I work. I wasn't copying to CD to copy it (it would have been more cost effective to buy another, as this process took an hour and I get paid more than $15/hr...) I space-shifted the CD so I could listen to it in the device of my choice.
I've never downloaded an MP3 from P2P, and have no intention to do so. It is very frustrating not to be able to sit down and listen to a CD that I just bought. (Actually, it was a gift from my sister.) Also, I typically make one copy to use in my car and keep the original in my home CD changer. Car CD's tend to get damaged easily.
I don't have a laptop, unfortunately, or I'd try this... Go to a big music store with your laptop (some time when you've got a lot of free time). Bring along a printout of the Redbook standard (the one that they have to comply with if they want to put that little Phillips 'Compact Disc' logo on the disc).
Buy a Phil Collins CD that you know is copy protected. Bring it over to the service desk. Open the CD in front of them, stick it in your laptop, have it fail to play, and insist that it's broken and you want another one.
Go get another one, open it, and do the same thing.
Repeat until you've opened the shrinkwrap on every copy of the CD, forcing the store to either re-wrap them or (more likely) send them back to the manufacturer as defective (at the manfacturer's cost).
Then go on to Norah Jones. ;)
-T
In this case, however, laziness plays the exact opposite role. While pirates are going to step up to the plate and see this as a challenge (perhaps even a welcome one), your average consumer simply won't buy a product that doesn't work in the way they believe it should (in this case, CDs that, well, actually play). It might take a while since public knowledge of this scheme is still very low, but all it's going to take for your average person is one such incident as cited in the article, and you can bet they'll stop buying cd's with those new-fangled operating instructions on the artwork.
In a couple years these ridiculous, half-assed protection schemes are going to be chalked up as a lesson in business failure in some MBA textbook, and beyond that will only be history. In Soviet Russia, the KGB makes unauthorized copies of you.
I don't know if any of you are old enough to remember the "look for the Union label" jingle. However, what you need to do as far as CDs go is "look for the CD-DA logo."
From what I understand, Royal Dutch Philips is actively looking for CDs labeled as proper Red Book compliant, non-broken CD-DA CDs but which are copy-limited, and therefore broken. If that Phil Collins and/or Norah Jones CD has the logo, but does not conform to the Red Book standard, Philips needs to be let know so they can SUE. And they have specifically said they WILL sue if cases like that are brought to their attention.
If the CD DOES NOT bear the CD-DA logo, you can't do this. But if it does...you can put a world of hurt on the music industry strictly by bringing this to their attention.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.