New Zaurus ROM (V. 3.10) Released

dawiz writes "LinuxGear.info writes (article is in German, this is a translation): "The new Zaurus SL-5500 ROM (V.3.10) was released last night. As Sharp didn't keep the last dead-line due to last-minute bug fixing, it's even more pleasing to see the new version that is claimed to solve most of the issues users had with the older ROMS finally released. [...] One drawback for Linux Users: there's no new Linux version of the QTopia Desktop software yet, that'll probably take another couple of days.""

Comments

Here it Is

[hbo]

http://community.zaurus.com/projects/sl5500uss/

OpenZaurus

[image]

You may want to try OpenZaurus instead. It uses Opie (a gorgeous fork of Qtopia), gives you better control over how memory is used, contains a ton of improved applications, includes support for all the old applications, and runs an updated Linux kernel.

Read more about why you would want to run OpenZaurus here.

Re:OpenZaurus

[krow]

I also found that it crashes more and has applications that are less developed (the backup tool being a very large sore point).

Re:OpenZaurus

[hbo]

Agreed. OZ is less stable than the Sharp ROM. But it is sooo, much nicer! I think the basic issue is that OZ is a development platform that is trying hard to be production quality. They almost make it, but some warts show through. OTOH, if you are used to tweaking software and doing Linux sysadmin, then there are no brick walls. Having the source ensures that. 8)

Re:OpenZaurus

[krow]

Nicer to me means that it works better :)
OpenZaurus is pretty but that is about all it has going for it at this point. I am hoping that in the future they become a legit option for those who want to upgrade but at this point its just not the case (despite what every Zaurus story's comments on Slashdot would make you think).

Having the source is nice, but it doesn't matter to most people, and lets face it, having the source only gives you the option if you have the time, the source is well documented, and it is fairly bug free in the first place (if not you end up going off on tangents and never getting around to fixing what you started out wanting int the first place).

Open Zaurus still has a long way to go before it can be used by the masses, telling people to use it at its current state is just dishonest and makes open source look bad in general.

Re:OpenZaurus

[hbo]

Where are you getting crashes? My Z has had several week uptimes, and I use the hell out of it. I did have a problem with the shell, which is really busybox. But I installed bash and those problems went away.

Where I see problems are in things like using a fat formatted SD card and having ipkg try to make softlinks on it. If you launch from the gui, the symptom is the app you just installed doesn't run. From the command line you see that the app is missing a library, which is the soft link ipkg failed to create on an fs that doesn't support links. Manually creating links on the root filesystem fixes it. I've also seen plenty of other packaging bugs. But after learning the ropes of how opie (qpe, really) handles configuring apps, I've been able to fix most of the problems I've encountered.

I agree that it does a disservice to unsophisticated users to tout them on to a cutting-edge platform like OZ. But hey, this is developers.slashdot.org, not even the main page of "news for nerds," but an even geekier subset. I think I'm safe in assuming most readers here will be able to cope. 8)

Re:OpenZaurus

[Anonymous Coward]

includes support for all the old applications

Note: when he says "support for all the old applications", you should read that as: "most of the old applications don't work".

In my experience, only one of the Hancom apps actually worked perfectly under OZ, the others didn't. The mail program didn't work (crash at startup).. apparently opie has a mail program but I couldn't find it. The Java JVM didn't work right. Opera didn't work (well as long as you didn't view and PNGs). Commercial apps from TheKompany don't always work (and OZ is unsupported by them anyway).. sound and video especially are unpredictable. Commercial apps from Handango are hit or miss.

OZ has a few nice touches that I *hope* make it into this or a future Sharp ROM, but I'd recommend OZ for entertainment only (i.e., just goofing around, using just opie apps, using SSH to reboot your box while taking a shit, etc.).

I'm not saying OZ doesn't have potential, but it's definitely not a drop-in replacement at this point.

Re:OpenZaurus

[Minna Kirai]

Having the source is nice,

That might be nice, but OpenZaurus doesn't even give you the source. Notice their download page has binary images, but no source (which is against GPL). Elsewhere, there are instructions to get the "buildroot", which is not source code (according to the definitions in the GNU GPL). Instead, it is patches which could possibly be applied to 3rd party packages to create the source code.

The OpenZaurus website suggests some of their software is GPL licensed (which makes sense, if it includes Linux), but they make little visible effort to obey that license.

Re:OpenZaurus

[Minna Kirai]

Where are you getting crashes?

I can reliably induce a system freeze by suspending with opiemediaplayer open (with OZ 3.2 stable).

That, however, is avoidable now that I'm aware of the problem. The less predictable errors are bigger concerns for me. The worst thing is the frequent, temporary TCP/IP failures.

(Most of these problems aren't crashes, per se, they're lock-ups and failures. Nobody enjoys a frozen PDA. Even if "working", the 30 second lag to eject an MMC card is painful.)

Re:OpenZaurus

[hbo]

GPL religosity aside, I've had no trouble at all with the kernel or device drivers. The "available source" I referred to was for ipkg and some of the apps, which I have found helpful.

kergoth is trying to track the handhelds.org kernels, which is why he has that ugly build process. I'd be upset if I couldn't actually look at his source, which I can, and/or if I needed it, which I don't.

Re:OpenZaurus

[hbo]

I don't use the media player, so that explains my not seeing that problem. However I've had no problems at all with the TCP/IP stack. I use a Linksys WCF12 CF WiFi card and it works like a charm, 12-16 hours a day over two different networks. What network hardware are you using?

I suppose this may be a symptom of the wider hardware support in OZ vs the Sharp ROM. In my case, the WCF12 wasn't supported by the Sharp ROM, which was a primary motivator for me to use OZ in the first place. My favorite hardware is well supported, but perhaps yours is less so. The limited support in the Sharp ROM is balanced by the fact that it all works as advertized (or should.) Wider support in OZ also means that not all of it is completely QAd.

I was pleased with the Sharp ROM, and I'm delighted with OZ. I have two Ipaqs, one running wince and one running Familiar v0.6.1. I can attest that the latter platform is even more unstable than OZ, though it gets props for being a pioneer, and for having lots of interesting development underway. I also have a Palm V and a Handspring, so I know what those platforms feel like. The point being that I've had exposure to a lot of embedded OS environments. For me OZ is closest to the ideal environment I've found. Partly that's due to hardware that was designed to run Linux. For example, you can have extra memory and a wireless card without kludgy expansion sleeves. And partly because OZ and opie have tried really hard to provide a production quality platform. As I noted earlier, they haven't quite made it, but the results are impressive to me nonetheless.

And I'm not expecting a turnkey platform. I want to tweak my OS. I'm a geek.8)

Re:OpenZaurus

[Minna Kirai]

What network hardware are you using?

DCF-650W.

The most "reliable" problem is that TCP sockets freeze up after getting a burst of more than 100k in a short period. The connection stays open, but no data will ever flow through it again.

This makes syncing and many other useful functions impossible.

(However, UDP and ping never fail, and the controls for getting the card initialized at all are easier in OZ)

Re:OpenZaurus

[Minna Kirai]

GPL religosity aside,

It's not religosity, but legality. To obey copyright laws, they should comply with the license, which means that any binaries must come with the source used to build them. Not patches which can be applied against some other source, and not code for some unspecified later version of the software. All users must get the exact source used to build the binaries they have. (Or "a written offer valid for 3 years", blah blah blah...)

And, it's not just a matter of legal compliance either. Real users are hurt by this- even though the mail archives aren't searchable, it's easy to find cases of the "source code" failing to build because it references external sites that no longer exist. (Which is possibly discouraging more developers from assisting in the project, if the code doesn't seem like a stable place to work)

Open Source is supposed to be about empowering users to contribute their own programming skills to projects they need. How could someone submit a bug fix for OpenZaurus, if she can't even know that the source code she downloaded is the same stuff that's running on the PDA?

kergoth is trying to track the handhelds.org kernels,

The best solution for that, of course, would be to work with them, as part of their tree. But prehaps they're not amenable. (Although they manage to give OpenZaurus a prominent link on their webpages)

However, needing a kernel from a specific source doesn't explain why the buildroot pulls in code for all kinds of things from a dozen places on the internet, or why he can't just make a tarball of the patched-together files whenever a binary release is prepared.

Re:OpenZaurus

[hbo]

Odd. I absolutely do not see this. Maybe it's a driver problem, or possibly hardware? How does the stack behave over usb?

No wonder you have a jaundiced view of OZ. 8(

Re:OpenZaurus

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the GPL. Source only has to be supplied, on request to people who received the binary. It doesn't have to be generally distributed.

It can be mailed on disc on request, for a nominal fee, even - it doesn't have to be stuck up on a ftp site.

If you're that wound up about it, request a copy of the source from the distributor.

Re:OpenZaurus

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreeing with the other reply- if the product *is* a patchset, you can't really obligate release of the sources it was made to patch- those aren't "owned" by the patchset author (in terms of distribution/license selection).

Now, it *would* obligate them to release the full tree(s) used for the full binary builds, which they probably can and do, on request.

Re:OpenZaurus

[sacrilicious]

If you're that wound up about it, request a copy of the source from the distributor.

I don't think the parent post was "wound up", and I happen to agree with its sentiments. Supposing that it's perfectly in line with the GPL to restrict access to formal requests, we are nevertheless faced with the question of WHY someone trying to create a community would not just simply put the source on the server. The parent post's points regarding how open source processes result in bug fixes and leverage disparate talent efficiently are spot-on. Now that I know there aren't tons of eyeballs looking at the source for open zaurus, there's no reason for me to believe it doesn't have some kind of major flaw, intentional back door, or tendency to become abandonware if the one person working on it decides to close up shop and do something else. Because these questions are important to me, I will not be getting a zaurus until such a time as these issues are resolved.

OpenZaurus

[ccady]

The Zaurus has had a high-performance open source replacement ROM for a long time. It is OpenZaurus. There are some good reasons to use it.

Zaurus Support.

[zulux]

I've bought a Japanese shap SL-C700 - and the support available is excelent as usuall for an 'open source' product. Betwen the FAQ's and the helpfull people on the forums - you can figure out how to do just about anything.

DebianZaurus

[SHEENmaster]

I just wish DZ had gotten further off the ground nearly as much as I wish OZ or the Sharp rom were based upon X11.

Anyways, OpenZaurus is so far ahead of the Sharp rom that I won't even bother with this new version.

Re:DebianZaurus

[hbo]

As far as I can see, the qt-e based guis are way ahead of X for the 1/4 vga screens. The typography is so much crisper. Then too, there's the memory overhead of X to consider. I'm sure both these problems can be addressed, but nothing I've seen on my iPaq can match opie, or even qpe for readability and low resource impact.

Re:DebianZaurus

[Realistic_Dragon]

I just wish DZ had gotten further off the ground nearly as much as I wish OZ or the Sharp rom were based upon X11.

First slashdot want X dead, then they want it on everything...

Have to agree though, it would be great to X forward apps off my Z onto my desktop (like Qplot) - I know you can install a X server for OZ, but you can't forward Opie based apps AFAIK.

Re:DebianZaurus

[hbo]

You have tried the VNC server, haven't you? It rocks!

Re:DebianZaurus

[Mark Pitman]

Anyways, OpenZaurus is so far ahead of the Sharp rom that I won't even bother with this new version.

This update is really nothing like the older Sharp ROMs. It is much better. It doesn't run everything as root anymore either. The support for network profiles is a lot better too. Now I can set up a separate profile for WiFi at work and at home, each with separate keys. That alone was worth the upgrade! You should give it a try. You don't have control over how much RAM to dedicate to storage like on OZ, but it really is a nice upgrade from the 2.37 or 2.38 Sharp ROMs.

5600?

[robson]

Anyone know if this new 5500 ROM works with the new 5600? (I know, I'm like one of four people who were 5600 early adopters.)

Likewise, has anyone installed OpenZaurus on the 5600?

Re:5600?

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC, The 3.10 5500 ROM is basically just the stock 5600 ROM ported back to the 5500. On the other hand, didn't a new version of the 5600 ROM appear a couple of weeks ago?

Re:5600?

[hbo]

I believe that the answer to your first question is no. But this release is mostly catch-up for the 5500 anyway.

According to kergoth's posting to the OZ news page, support for the 5600 is "forthcoming". That link also gives a timeline of three to four months for OZ 3.4, but one month or so for the 3.3 development series that will probably include 5600 support.

As for being an early adopter, I envy you, but the price drop on the 5500 when the 5600 came out was just too tempting!

Re:5600?

[Vej]

On this topic, how do you find the performance so far compared to the 5500?

Are the new memory adjustments any hindrance with the large processor power increase?

Have you tried real-time video feeds on both?

Re:5600?

[robson]

On this topic, how do you find the performance so far compared to the 5500?

Are the new memory adjustments any hindrance with the large processor power increase?

Have you tried real-time video feeds on both?

A little disappointing, really. It seems like DivX movies run a little smoother on the 5600 (with tkcVideo). I was really hoping it would be fast enough to run MAME, but now that I have the 5600 I can't find a version of Zaurus MAME that works with any of the ROMs I have.

The two major hardware improvements don't justify the early adoption price, but they're pretty nice nevertheless -- a fully transparent screen cover and a built-in speaker.

Can be said about any open source OS

[yerricde]

Open Zaurus still has a long way to go before it can be used by the masses, telling people to use it at its current state is just dishonest and makes open source look bad in general.

Likewise, popular desktop GNU/Linux distributions still have a long way to go before it can be used by the masses, telling people to use it at its current state is just dishonest and makes open source look bad in general.

How is it any different?

Re:Can be said about any open source OS

[krow]

Because the desktops at this point are quite useable while Open Zaurus crashes a lot :)

I am up to 76 days of uptime for my desktop linux box (servers are much higher). I found that Open Zaurus locked up a couple of times a day, more if you tried to use its applications instead of just clicking around to look at the eye candy.

Most of the Linux dists at this point are very useable by an end user who needs to do a certain number of tasks. Its fairly easy to sit someone down in front of a default redhat install and watch them work. Its not optimal, but to be honest I don't see Windows being much better at this point. OS X if it had market share might fly, but I am not sure that will happen.

Re:Can be said about any open source OS

[hbo]

As I said earlier, my experience with OZ is exactly the opposite. 3.2 has proven to be a very stable release for me. The one time I completely screwed it up was when I uninstalled busybox, but that was my fault. And I use it heavily and daily. The VNC server means I can use it from my desktop all day.
I do have a 256 MiB SD card, so I use the OZ image that dedicates all the SDRAM to the heap and zero to storage. The other day, I loaded my inbox with 2500+ messages in it over imap, and watched top as opiemail2 ate up all the RAM. The system cleared cache gracefully and the system ended up with 1 MiB free, but I by-god had my mail 8)

Re:Can be said about any open source OS

[Minna Kirai]

It's somewhat the same, actually.

But the thing is, the Zaurus (US version, SL-5500) includes Linux as it's original OS. Neither the official Sharp ROM, nor OpenZaurus, is competitive with Palm or PocketPC for end user convenience and stability.

So, switching in an amateur Linux for the professional one is a fairly minor change. It makes some definite improvements, but also has obvious shortcomings.

Overall, a desktop GNU/Linux like Redhat, SUSE, or Debian is more stable and userfriendly than the Linuxes I've seen on PDAs. (And ironically, the average person is much more forgiving when a desktop crashes than when their PDA flips out)

Re:Can be said about any open source OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't say that the Zaurus is competitive with the palm. But having used, and developed on, WinCE/PocketPC2002 devices, I can definitely say the Z is competitive with those pieces of crap...

Sync over LAN

[Gothmolly]

The killer app for me was to sync over a LAN connection - I had to use OZ for that. Sharp disabled syncing over anything but USB in ROM 2.38, in the interest of security. OZ lets you specify where you can sync from. Plus the memory management is superior - you can install to flash, you don't have the stupid JVM demos on there, the media player plays Oggs, etc.

Re:Sync over LAN

[Cwaig]

The 3.1 sharp rom doesn't have the JVM or the demos installed by default - they're optional extras.

what kernel version?

[gearheadsmp]

Anyone know what Kernel revision this new ROM uses? Sharp said it was going to have the same Kernel as the SL-5600....

Re:what kernel version?

[ajohnj1]

2.4.18-rmk7-pxa3-embedix

Mirror - Zaurus pictures

[Anonymous Coward]

Mirror - Zaurus pictures

Zarus as a GSM/GPRS Phone/Internet device

[gjt]

Has anyone gotten their Zaurus to work with any of the GSM/GPRS CompactFlash cards like the
Siemens or Audiovox cards?

If any of these cards worked the Zaurus would be the killer mobile voice and data platform. I for once can ssh into our servers from Barnes & Noble.

Re:Zarus as a GSM/GPRS Phone/Internet device

[jussikin]

I regulary use zaurus with socket bluetooth card and nokia 3610i gprs phone. And that definedly rocks. I can access slashdot allmost everywhere inside Finland and thanks to grps operator with same fixed per month pricing. Remote operating linux boxes with ssh its great too. thanks to zauriis mini keyboard. jk

Re:Zarus as a GSM/GPRS Phone/Internet device

[Anonymous Coward]

Another thought would be a Bluetooth phone plus the Bluetooth GPS unit punting around.

Though that's not nearly as compact as the all-in-one card would allow, obviously.

Re:Zarus as a GSM/GPRS Phone/Internet device

[Anonymous Coward]

Are we talking about the 5600 or the 5500 still? I've been trying for some days now to get Bluetooth working on my 5600, no luck...

Re:Zarus as a GSM/GPRS Phone/Internet device

[jussikin]

I have 5500, but it is possible to use BT with 5600 too at least with Sharp rom and Bluez stack. Sobody did confirm this #zaurus@efnet... I use OZ 3.2 and affix stack on 5500. jk

not necessarily XFree

[SHEENmaster]

X11 is a protocol, not a specific server. It doesn't have to use so much memory, have un-crisp typography, or any of that shit.

It would also be easy to change the virtual video ratio, so that software can assume the screen is bigger than it really is. This would allow much to just recompiled, without having to deal with the smaller screen.

What's involved?

[Colonel Panic]

I guess I'm a little squeamish about downloading a new ROM image and flashing the internal ROM.

How hard is this to do? What are the potential problems that might render my Zaurus unusable? (if any)

Re:What's involved?

[hbo]

It's pretty easy and very safe. The worst thing is, you lose your add-on applications and data, so backup is indicated.

This page has PDF downloads of this upgrade instructions. There are basically two ways to do it. If you are syncing to a Windows PC, you can download an update application that will do the whole thing for you. If you are using Linux or Mac, you can place the upgrade image on a CF card and do the Zaurunian C-D-Reset finger pinch. (Read the docs if that doesn;t make sense.) What makes it safe is the fact that the boot ROM has a flash programmer in it. So even if you completely toast an upgrade, you can just start over because the programmer is still there. (You do have to have the image you want loaded on a flash card to take advantage of this safty.)

Re:What's involved?

[Minna Kirai]

The worst danger is that you'll lose power in the first quarter-second of the flashing process, turning the unit into a small brick until you mail it in for repair. (And depending on the kind of ROM you're flashing, even this problem might be impossible. It's only a concern using a 3rd party ROM)

Of course, a simultaneous failure of your AC power and battery is impossible on its own. Which is why the flashing software refuses to run unless AC is attached.

eh? I can't ftp in, new rom hard to connect to?

[jago25_98]

As soon as I flashed the new rom onto my 5500 I couldn't ftp in or use qtopiaDesktop to transfer files via usbndnet,

or using the driver I'd used before under windows.

What's going on? I'm reading through any docs I can find now.

Remember: I can ping 192.168.129.201 from Windoze and linux, but I can't do anything else.

Re:eh? I can't ftp in, new rom hard to connect to?

[mmclure]

As of the 2.38 ROM, they limit the addresses that are allowed to connect to the FTP port to only 192.168.129.1 or addresses that are provided by the Zaurus' internal DHCP server. So make sure that the PC endpoint of the usbndnet connection is either 192.168.129.1 or DHCP-provided.