Posted by
michael
on from the tastes-great-less-filling dept.
Logic writes "The Oggbitstream format (used by OggVorbis) has been enshrined in RFC 3533, "The Ogg Encapsulation Format Version 0", for all you folks who won't look at something unless it has an RFC attached to it."
We can now get some more external player support. Especially in all the CD/MP3 players with upgradeable firmware and same with just MP3 players. I can't wait to be able to starting going only ogg.
Re:Hopefully
by
millette
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Actually, Tremor, the integer codec, took care of that over a ago according to the changelog. And it's released under a bsd-like license.
Re:Hopefully
by
bobm17ch
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I`m afraid this won`t affect player support much.
The device (pc/mp3player/whatever) still has to support the vorbis audio codec within the ogg wrapper.
Think of ogg as a bag of revels. The bag is standardised and easy to manipulate, but you just don`t know what you`re gonna get inside. Or even if you are gonna be able to handle it:) [1]
[1] I can`t decode the orange revels. My codec empties the contents of the buffer through the I/O.:p
Actually, Tremor, the integer codec, took care of that over a ago according to the changelog. And it's released under a bsd-like license.
Unfortunately Tremor isn't a one-size-fits-all. It's got nasty things like dynamic memory allocation all over the shop and still a rather large memory overhead. Actually, to be 100% compliant with the Vorbis 1.0 spec it's rather difficult to turn out a fast and small implementation (I've been trying).
At the moment I'm working on getting my own implementation working with an extremely small RAM overhead. It's by no means trivial getting it working on the DSPs you find in most MP3 players, and almost none of the source code to Tremor could be successfully ported to them either. I don't expect any of the source code I'm writing for my own implementation to be used as anything but a reference for writing a version to run on DSPs.
Of course, it would have been much more difficult even starting to write my own implementation were it not for freely available specs.
Now that it's an RFC...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Funny
It's only a matter of time before Verisign decides to patent it.
On a side note, there has also been a second RFC (RFC 3534) published regarding the application/ogg media type.
Isn't an RFC a request for comment?
by
unixwin
·
· Score: 4, Informative
If so, what can one comment on the Ogg stream if its already well defined?
I thought RFC's were proposals for eliciting peer comments/reviews??
-- -- everyones not everybody and neither is everybody like everyone.
Re:Isn't an RFC a request for comment?
by
OverlordQ
·
· Score: 4, Informative
When the RFCs were first produced, they had an almost 19th century
character to them - letters exchanged in public debating the merits
of various design choices for protocols in the ARPANET. As email and
bulletin boards emerged from the fertile fabric of the network, the
far-flung participants in this historic dialog began to make
increasing use of the online medium to carry out the discussion -
reducing the need for documenting the debate in the RFCs and, in some
respects, leaving historians somewhat impoverished in the process.
RFCs slowly became conclusions rather than debates.
Now if only it had a decent name
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Funny
"OGG is better" "what? We're talking about music, not whatever that is..." "OGG is about music. It's a file format, like MP3s, only better." "Okay, dude, I'm sorry, I just keep missing the first thing you're saying" "It's OGG. O - G - G." "Dude, that is the most retarded name I've ever heard of... let's play some halo on my x-boxe!!!"
Re:Now if only it had a decent name
by
Anonym1ty
·
· Score: 5, Funny
Until I read more about it years ago, the name OGG always made me picture some wanna be Mac Addict listening to Mod files or something in a dark room prodding through OS7 while dreaming how elite he had become.
Re:Now if only it had a decent name
by
be-fan
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Well, technically, the codec is Vorbis, which is a pretty cool name, if you ask me.
-- A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:Now if only it had a decent name
by
TummyX
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Not to mention the logo which looks like a naked richard stallman hacking at a snake with an axe.
Remember what an RFC is
by
bigberk
·
· Score: 5, Informative
An RFC is a "Request For Comment", a technical specification document put forward by anybody. As wikipedia puts it, "Few RFCs are standards but all Internet standards are recorded in RFCs."
So what am I getting at is, realize that this hasn't been adopted as some Internet standard overnight. But it's very positive for the project to have such a well defined standards document in a familiar format!
Why do the RFC page headers say "OGG" instead of "Ogg"? The headers in other RFCs aren't arbitrarily
capitalized. It's hard enough convincing people
that Ogg isn't an acronym without the RFC itself
making our work harder.
Can they fix this without issuing a new RFC
number?
Re:Ogg or OGG?
by
.com+b4+.storm
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Why do the RFC page headers say "OGG" instead of "Ogg"? The headers in other RFCs aren't arbitrarily capitalized. It's hard enough convincing people that Ogg isn't an acronym without the RFC itself making our work harder.
Can they fix this without issuing a new RFC number?
4) How can I correct an error in a published RFC? You cannot! Once an RFC is published, it cannot be changed.
[...] For both technical and editorial errors, the RFC Editor provides a list of errata for published RFCs. This page contains a list of errors that have been reported to the RFC Editor.
-- "Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
Yes, that's what RFC stands for. Slashdot took over the commenting aspect of all RFCs, so please just post any comments you might have about RFC 3533 below.
Sincerely,
Letter
Re:This is a good thing.
by
StrawberryFrog
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Why would apple want to put OGG support into the iPod? MP3 is the bait, AAC is the hook. OGG isn't even a player, and apple has no percentage in making it one.
By that I mean that MP3 support is important for market acceptance - you'll buy one for the MP3z; but AAC with all that DRM is important to the business model. Promoting another no-DRM format over AAC is not in Apple's interest.
That said, I'd love to be wrong. The day that Apple do idealistically put OGG support into Ipod, I will buy one. Or if another manufacturer makes a good one, I'll get that instead.
Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). All Rights Reserved.
...
This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to others... provided that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are included on all such copies
Sooo... is distribution one of those reserved "All Rights" or not? I think "All Rights Reserved" can be considered one of the most overused catch phrases of the last 20 years. Not only is it used in a contradictory manner like here, but somehow the MPAA and RIAA and software industry seem to think they really can reserve ALL rights instead of just their exclusive ones.
"...for all you folks who won't look at something unless it has an RFC attached to it."
I can imagine Logic taking four long seconds to come up with something that sounded smart at the time. Here are some more gems that Logic has come up with:
"John Carmack reached 50,000 ft. with his X-Prize entry today, for those of you who don't take video games seriously unless their designer is a rocket scientist."
"NASA today announced proof of a black hole in a nearby galaxy, for those of you who won't watch Star Trek episodes with unproven singularities."
"Sun finally implemented generics in Java in its latest release, for those of you who only view web pages with applets written in languages with generics."
I refuse to support Ogg until its streaming component adequately supports the Evil Bit. Slashdot has given this so-called "Evil Bit" RFC a little lip service in the past, but I think it's high time we brought it out into the open.
Re:Status of Ogg FLAC ?
by
Hatta
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Ogg FLAC works. Just use the --ogg flag to flac. What I can't figure out is why you'd want to.
-- Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:But nobody knows about ogg.
by
shaitand
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
As a technician with the unfortunate experience to work with an extremely vast array of different windows users, I can confirm that most adults use whatever is put before them. Most teenagers use winamp. Most adults with teenage children use winamp as a consequence because that's what their teenager put before them. I hope this clarifies issues.
Generally I've found this to be a consistant pattern, teenagers use some app from the web (for better or worse) they've found and believe better to do the things they care about (otherwise they use what is in front of them. Adults follow a pretty consistant pattern of never looking for something better than what is put in their path unless they have an extremely compelling reason. And even then, they use the first solution to that reason that is put in front of them.. never really looking for the best solution.
Slashdot Mirror
We can now get some more external player support. Especially in all the CD/MP3 players with upgradeable firmware and same with just MP3 players. I can't wait to be able to starting going only ogg.
It's only a matter of time before Verisign decides to patent it.
This is great, well done to all the xiph guys. Remember to show your support by tax-deductibly donating.
If so, what can one comment on the Ogg stream if its already well defined?
I thought RFC's were proposals for eliciting peer comments/reviews??
-- everyones not everybody and neither is everybody like everyone.
"OGG is better"
"what? We're talking about music, not whatever that is..."
"OGG is about music. It's a file format, like MP3s, only better."
"Okay, dude, I'm sorry, I just keep missing the first thing you're saying"
"It's OGG. O - G - G."
"Dude, that is the most retarded name I've ever heard of... let's play some halo on my x-boxe!!!"
An RFC is a "Request For Comment", a technical specification document put forward by anybody. As wikipedia puts it, "Few RFCs are standards but all Internet standards are recorded in RFCs."
So what am I getting at is, realize that this hasn't been adopted as some Internet standard overnight. But it's very positive for the project to have such a well defined standards document in a familiar format!
Can they fix this without issuing a new RFC number?
Dear RFC,
Yes, that's what RFC stands for. Slashdot took over the commenting aspect of all RFCs, so please just post any comments you might have about RFC 3533 below.
Sincerely,
Letter
Why would apple want to put OGG support into the iPod? MP3 is the bait, AAC is the hook. OGG isn't even a player, and apple has no percentage in making it one.
By that I mean that MP3 support is important for market acceptance - you'll buy one for the MP3z; but AAC with all that DRM is important to the business model. Promoting another no-DRM format over AAC is not in Apple's interest.
That said, I'd love to be wrong. The day that Apple do idealistically put OGG support into Ipod, I will buy one. Or if another manufacturer makes a good one, I'll get that instead.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
...
Distribution of this memo is unlimited.
...
Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). All Rights Reserved.
...
This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to others ... provided that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are included on all such copies
Sooo... is distribution one of those reserved "All Rights" or not? I think "All Rights Reserved" can be considered one of the most overused catch phrases of the last 20 years. Not only is it used in a contradictory manner like here, but somehow the MPAA and RIAA and software industry seem to think they really can reserve ALL rights instead of just their exclusive ones.
"The Ogg Encapsulation Format Version 0"
Version 0?? I've heard of version 0.1, but never version 0. Does this mean it hasn't been started yet?
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
As you wish. CDex has native CD->Ogg ripping support.
No, thats the way it is by design.
IETF doesn't standardize anything untill it is finished, complete with reference implementations.
Heres a good writeup: The Internet Engineering Task Force
"...for all you folks who won't look at something unless it has an RFC attached to it."
I can imagine Logic taking four long seconds to come up with something that sounded smart at the time. Here are some more gems that Logic has come up with:
"John Carmack reached 50,000 ft. with his X-Prize entry today, for those of you who don't take video games seriously unless their designer is a rocket scientist."
"NASA today announced proof of a black hole in a nearby galaxy, for those of you who won't watch Star Trek episodes with unproven singularities."
"Sun finally implemented generics in Java in its latest release, for those of you who only view web pages with applets written in languages with generics."
I refuse to support Ogg until its streaming component adequately supports the Evil Bit. Slashdot has given this so-called "Evil Bit" RFC a little lip service in the past, but I think it's high time we brought it out into the open.
I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
Ogg FLAC works. Just use the --ogg flag to flac. What I can't figure out is why you'd want to.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
As a technician with the unfortunate experience to work with an extremely vast array of different windows users, I can confirm that most adults use whatever is put before them. Most teenagers use winamp. Most adults with teenage children use winamp as a consequence because that's what their teenager put before them. I hope this clarifies issues.
Generally I've found this to be a consistant pattern, teenagers use some app from the web (for better or worse) they've found and believe better to do the things they care about (otherwise they use what is in front of them. Adults follow a pretty consistant pattern of never looking for something better than what is put in their path unless they have an extremely compelling reason. And even then, they use the first solution to that reason that is put in front of them.. never really looking for the best solution.