Computing's Lost Allure

khendron writes "An article in the New York Times, describes how the number of students majoring in computer science in university has dropped off with the rest of the hi-tech economy. The bright side: the students who are enrolling are doing so because they love computers. Not like a few years ago when students were enrolling because they wanted to make a quick buck. I'll take quality over quantity."

Comments

Preach it brother

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'll take quality over quantity."

Amen. When I graduated in 2000 there were more than a few people in the degree for the money. They were miserable and barely got through as it was. :)

Re:Preach it brother

[Irishman]

I have been waiting for this day to happen since the bubblr burst. When I started my CS degree, most of us were there because we loved computers. We spent all our free time (what little there was) teaching ourselves everything we could. By the end of my degree, most of the people entering the program could barely use a DOS prompt, let alone know what Unix was.

I hope that employers start getting the hint as well. It was very disheartening to see people who took a 1-year program to learn computers getting senior developers and architect jobs.

At my office, I have told our headhunters that unless someone has a CS degree and several years experience, we do not want to see them. I may get flamed for being prejudiced against self-taught people, but I have seen far more self-taught people who think they are a lot better than they are than people who actually have an apptitude.

Re:Preach it brother

[RealityMogul]

Uh duh, did you ever think that maybe the self-taught people actually know just as much as the CS grads because they love it enough to spend their time learning real-world practices instead of spending 4 years learning what some professor thinks is important? I've worked with CS grads before and I'd consider recommending them for writing documentation or being a liason between the real programmers and the customers, but the ones I've worked with suck at writing code.

Re:Preach it brother

[AKAImBatman]

The advantage of CS degree is filtering out the idiots.

Sadly enough, I've had the opposite experience. Most CS grads in the past few years have been complete idiots. The schools keep saying "We need to make it easier on them. Oh, we'll stop teaching this, this, and that. Super-basic Java? Sure! That's the only marketplace requirement!" What I want to know is, why the f*** is "marketplace requirements" determining the level of education? True CS grads should know how the computer works. They should be able to build an OS or a compiler or whatever else they need. When they actually reach the market is when they should be finding the best ways to put their understanding to use.

Case and point. My company hired a guy who had a masters in CS as well multiple degrees in other fields. He had a good reference from his previous employer, so we hired him. He *could not* write a single line of code. I spent a lot of time with him trying to fill in the holes too. In the end, it was apparent that he really made it by constantly leeching off of those smarter than him and hoping noone noticed. In all reality, he could do very little.

BTW, I am self-taught. I find it almost scary how much more I know about computer science than the computer scientists do. I'll mention a simple datastructure (hashtable, b-tree, anything!) and watch the eyes of degree holders gloss over. I'm sorry if I sound a little worked up over this, but I always expected those who make it through CS programs to know *more* than I do and be able to apply that knowledge at will. Unfortuntely, I'm constantly frustrated by the lack of quality being produced by schools today. There's only one true test of a programmer. Look at their code. If they have none to show you, run the other way.

Re:Preach it brother

[Austerity Empowers]

I (MS in EE) learned hash tables, b-tree's and all the other standard data structures and algorithms in high school computer science. It's not that they don't teach this stuff in school as part of a CS (or hell, EE) requirement. The old axiom remains: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can lead a student to knowledge, but you can't make him think. If your intent is to go to school to get a degree ONLY because there's money in that career, 99.9% of the time your education will suffer. That's not to say that you can't get a 4.0 GPA. As my employer (a complete school/degree elitist place) is learning the hardware, GPA & ivy league don't mean anything. At the peak we had "the best and brightest" from MIT, Princeton, Stanford etc. working here and realized: a) Those schools teach the same material b) Students cheat just as much, or more c) The quality of student is universally shitty regardless of degree or institution. Yet when I'm faced with interviewing someone, I always am hard pressed to identify THE good guy in the crowd. They all have excellent creditials (HR sees to that), but most everyone seems blah. The one and only one guy I hired, shouldn't have even gotten an interview (gpa of 3.4, local school), but I hired him because he appeared to actually enjoy the subject. HE turned out to be truly excellent, not because he was the smartest, but because he loved what he did and wanted to do it best.

hopefully this will be for more than just uni's

[Hunts]

Hoefully this will also cut down on the number of people doing "can not fail" certification courses. I've always found these things insulting. Along with job ads that reuire MCSE's to even apply..for unix admin jobs, or janitors!

Never trust a computer proffesional that doesnt list computer as a hobby.

Re:hopefully this will be for more than just uni's

[Anonymous Coward]

Never trust a computer proffesional that doesnt list computer as a hobby.

This is bullshit. It's very sane to have hobbies that involve other things than your profession. It's called balance in your life. One can be a very good lawyer without spending hobby time reading books of law. One can be a very good salesmen without spending hobby time selling things. One can be a very good plumber without having plumbing has his hobby ... one can be a very good computer professional without spending hobby times on his computer.

babbling

[sweeney37]

I was talking to someone yesterday and mentioned I was going back to school, he asked if I was going back to gain some extra computer knowledge. I told him I decided upon a job in computers because as I was growing up, I loved them, but now as I have a job in the computer field, I just don't have the love I used to.

In the past few months I've been rethinking my career path, and I've decided to go back to school. This time around I've decided to learn what I love, instead of what I thought I would love.

Mike

Interesting...

[__aagmrb7289]

But there are:

(a) Many people who like computers that suck at working with them;

(b) Many people who don't particularly like computers that don't suck at working with them;

(c) Still a hell of a lot of people who have no business looking at jobs in the IT industry that are working their ass off trying to get on.

Oh, the sad state of this world I live in...

Hmm...

[GreyOrange]

Well the fact that they are passionate about computers is a good thing. The only thing I don't like is the emphasis on .net and soap, ect in schools. Just the other day I heard that the programers in my company are going to upgrade every piece of software to be .net compatable and all data entry software will be soap based. I slapped my self in the forehead! I certianly hope that some of those purebloods will go to some schools that don't push out microsoft robots.

Everyone should have known this

[jawtheshark]

If you chose an education, you should not choose what is trendy, but what you *like* or what you are *interested* in.

That's what I did, before the internet boom, and I graduated in the middle of the internet boom... *not* taking advantage of it and just looking for a stable job. Which I still have, right now.... (Just got a raise, so I am not to complain).

Yes, I chose Computer Science because I love computers, I love programming and I discovered that I loved the math and theory behind all of it. (Because, boys 'n girls.... Computer Science doesn't end at being a good coder)

Apart from that I have to quote the article:
People aren't seeing the glory in computer science that they used to.

I think that is false: there never has *been* glory in Computer Science. Not even in the dot-com boom. No, *technology* was glorified, not the science.

Anyways: do what you like. That's the only advice I can give. (Oh, and to my surprise I read in the article that there are more girls doing CS now! Damn, I wish I was younger and back at University *grin*)

Re:The great IT labor shortage of 2006

[smack_attack]

I hope you speak Hindi.

What I tell people going into a computing major

[Badgerman]

1. Make sure you enjoy it. Really enjoy it. It's a lifestyle.
   
2. Make sure you know what you're doing. If you're going into a CIS major without much experience, you may be in for a nasty surprise.
   
3. Get a second major or a minor in something else that is useful, relevant, and can be combined with the computing.
   
4. Stay on top of the news, the trends, and move with the times.
   
5. Get ANY job experience, any relevant experience ASAP and always maintain that resume.
   

My irony is that I'm a psychology major who did a lot of research and used a lot of computers. Now half my work involves data abstraction, workflow, working with people, and statistics. If I'd gone into a CIS major I probably would have been a worse programmer - the extra "something" helps.