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ComputerWare/Elite Chain Throws In The Towel
An anonymous reader writes "ComputerWare, a ComputerLand-like chain of stores specializing in Apple computers, went out of business in 2001. Thinking he sees an opportunity for expansion, the guy who owns Elite Computers, the long-time independent Apple computer store literally across the street from Apple HQ in Cupertino, bought the CW name and leased and reopened the SF Bay Area stores as 'ComputerWare by Elite Computers.' In 2003, Mr. Elite realized the reason the original ComputerWare owners got out -- Apple's engaging in 'unfair competition' -- and announced he is closing the chain along with his original store."
I was so thrilled to be there, though I had just missed the 5pm closing time of the gift shop, so I could only drive around in an infinate loop ;-).
Anyway, I remember seeing this Apple dealer across the street (well, go out the front of the complex, make two rights, and make a sharp left across the street). They had a large colored Apple logo (the old "rainbow" style, which I am sentimental for), even though every other Apple symbol around was the new metal/steel/aqua or whatever they call it. I found that strangely comforting that even though Apple changed their logo, their old one was always staring them right back into the doorway of the gift shop. I was glad they didn't change their sign.
Anyway, silly nostalgia and memories.. go back to your own business..
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Still, it's sad to see small retailers go.
Yawn.
::ready to burn karma::
I know this is one man's claim and all that, but I wanted to prepare myself for the rest of the thread.
Just so I know:
Is it OK on Slashdot for a computer company to engage in unfair business practices as long as it's name doesn't begin with an "M" and end with an "icrosoft"?
If Microsoft wanted to do that, that's perfectly within their rights. Apple can't be troubled to support every damn type of hardware or architecture out there, and no one can force them to. It's the same as Texas Instruments not letting Casio license their (arguably) superior calculator software, or Kodak not licensing the operating system of their cameras to other companies.
Irix only runs on SGI hardware. Boo hoo. It's hardly anticompetetive. It's just far easier to support, not to mention that Apple is a hardware company and selling machines is how they make money.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
From the article: Mr. Armes says Apple delivered new products to its own Apple stores as much as a month before they would ship any to him. "We didn't get as much product as the Apple stores, and we got it later than the Apple stores," Mr. Armes says.
I don't see anything unusual about this. Apple has very strict price controls on its products. The reason why it puts them in its Apple Stores first could be to get the product out there in the market in case other retailers balk at the high prices.
We can be sure that Macs will probably never be seen at places like Staples and Office Max because they would not be allowed to put the product on sale. This is why when we do see Macs at larger stores such as CompUSA and catalogs such as MacZone, there are always special offers of extra stuff like printers ans scanners and the like. That's the only way for an Apple retailer to compete with the Apple Store.
It's not Apple's fault. Steve Jobs didn't force "Mr. Elite" to become an Apple retailer in the first place. Every type of "dealership" has its caveats because it has to follow a certain set of rules governed by the manufacturer of the product it sells. I say: "buy one directly from Apple's website." I bought my 17-inch PowerBook there. I was fast, easy, and I got my extra RAM put in by an Apple technician! What more could you want?
Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action.
Apple products are developed and produced by Apple. It's their business (literally) and if they want to sell their products in Apple stores only, they are free to do so. You can argue it's not fair or whatever, but it is up to Apple to decide who sells their stuff. So, in a way, they mind their own business.
"What would people say if Microsoft made it so Windows would only run on Microsoft-brand hardware?"
They'd say "Thank you Mr Gates, may I have another?" And then go out and buy more X-box games.
That was classic intercourse!
"I don't remember ever being able to run Apple's OS-du-jour on anything but an Apple made product."
There used to be a licensed Apple clone business - Apple ended it because the cloners only stole market share from Apple's own products rather than from Windows PCs. The termination of cloning REALLY pissed Motorola off - and Apple have been paying for that one ever since. Some words to search for - Starmax, Power Computing, CHRP and Daystar.
That was classic intercourse!
You are confusing legal definitions with dictionary definitions. OJ may have killed his wife but he did not murder her. Se how simple it is.
Anyone take any life saving courses? Sometimes you can't save the person in trouble and it's better to have one victim than two (person in trouble and would-be rescuer). It sucks. It's not fair. Welcome to the real world. I think we are in a similar situation here.
I know some true believers are going to get upset but face it; Apple is in a life and death struggle. They are not as close to the edge as they were in previous years but "beleaguered" status is never that far away. The Apple Stores, IMHO, are an important part of Apple's long term strategy. Maximize profits by cutting out the middle man. As Apple is forced to cut its profit margins this becomes critical. On top of this these stores are incredibly important marketing tools. They are very strategically located and the couple I've visited always seem to have a lot of foot traffic. People may not be buying but they are getting the sense that Apple is a viable option today and not just a historical footnote. These stores are far more valuable than super bowl ads.
If it is necessary for Apple to screw small independent dealers in order to ensure its long term survival then so be it. If Apple were to become further marginalized and lose its image as a viable alternative these dealers would get screwed anyway.
I happen to live within just a block of one of the ComputerWare stores and have watched it go out of business twice. The store did fair business. In visiting, there had been no time in the past several years that I was the only one in the store, and it was often crowded. If they didn't make money, it's because it was run poorly. They were always busy. Another local Mac shop had/has the same amount of foot traffic and remains open.
But let me also tell you a story of another place where I've lived, the Pacific Northwest. My family purchased three Apples (IIc, Mac SE, IIgs) over time from a chain called "The Computer Store." which has been in business there since the early eighties, and now is called "The Mac Store." They did a great job of presenting Mac in a clean and professional retail environment with knowledgeable salespeople. They probably still do.
The point is, that in opening retail stores, Apple initially opened bay area stores in Santa Clara and Palo Alto. That was the original plan, and it was fair. They put one near Apple's campus in Cupertino and another in a well-travelled shopping district in an affluent town.
But - they didn't put any stores in Oregon or Washington. Why? The Mac Store chain is doing very well selling Apple products, with satisfied customers. There was no great need for Apple to go into those areas. Apple just recently opened a Seattle-area store, and will likely go into Portland at some point. But they are being very careful not to but The Mac Store in trouble. They couldn't be more respectful of The Mac Stores' ability to stay in business.
In the Bay Area, ComputerWare was the only Apple chain, and when they went out of business (the first time), Apple suddenly a store into Emeryville (near Pixar HQ) and announced Burlingame and Walnut Creek stores. It was a solid, sensible move to retain customers. All the sudden here comes Elite, which had never given Apple much trouble before, and they spend tons of cash to rebuild the ComputerWare chain, putting stores into the same markets.
I never understood it - why would you invest so much money in competing with Apple in retail? Well it was pretty obvious that Apple was going to win that war, just on brand recognition. How could Elite ever earn the investment back selling low-margin Macs? They knew very well what they were getting into. Forget "unfair practices" - the ComputerWare stores were doomed, and Elite should have known it. It was a stupid move. Whatever they're claiming now is just legal cover for investors and future lawsuits.
I personally will not miss them. The original ComputerWare chain was great and would always go out of my way to buy from them instead of others even if I had to pay more for it because the service was worth it and I liked supporting a local store.
Sadly when Elite took over the service went downhill fast. I was never able to get help. If I needed to return something it was a giant hassle and the amount of stuff they stocked sucked. That and on several occasions I was outright lied to about things such as compatibility with anything that they did not happen to have in stock at the moment.
Because of this I started making the extra hour drive to the Apple store for my purchases.
While I recognize the right of Apple to dictate conditions & practices to their resellers, I think Apple is being short-sighted by scaring off resellers like this. Agreements not allowing recompense for damages, and preferentially releasing product earlier to their own stores is clearly creating an unfair competitive situation favourable to Apple Retail, something which Apple said they would not do when they announced their retail store strategy 2 years ago. Sure, it means more business will go to Apple Stores and Apple online, but there is also a cost invloved: fewer people in the market to promote Macintosh products. One example is that Elite and other resellers are/were able to get into vertical markets in a way Apple would never have the resources to pay attention to.
While deprecating resellers for company-branded stores may result in a short-term finacial gain, I think it's poor long-term strategy for the overall health of the platform. Note to all you people out there saying "Slashdot has double standards with MS!" it's not the same, since
Beyond the economics or other consideratons of the validity of CW , I remember fondly working at the old California store when, -on the weekends, bus loads of japanese tourists would unload and shop there (at the time we only sold software and peripherals) -folks like gase, hertzfield, smith, levitus, bushnell would frequent and shop -we had guys (and some gals) who really new the SW and could match the needs of the user with the best product. (tim, yugi, steffan, etc) -Saturdays would be an absolute zoo because of how many people were packed into the tiny store. economies shift, business decisions are made, life goes on. Working there, early in my carrer, was really fun. RIP
Back when "Master of Orion III" had JUST been released for the Macintosh, I was REALLY desperate to get it. After being disappointed in CompUSA for not having it in stock, I resorted to calling ahead before trekking to other stores. My first call was to The Apple Store in Emeryville. They were more concerned that I, the customer, would be satisfied than they were on getting that sale. Though they didn't have it in stock, they actually referred me to three other stores that carry Macintosh software; one of which was the ComputerWare in Berkeley.
Unfortunately, none of them had MOO3 in stock yet either. A week later, I found myself in Emeryville for other reasons, and decided to stop in at the Apple Store to see if it was in yet. They didn't have it, but the store manager actually CALLED those same resellers (including again, Berkeley's ComputerWare) for me, while I was in The Apple Store, trying to get me what I wanted, EVEN IF IT WOULD COST THEM A SALE!!!
Shades of "Miriacle on 34th Street"; and certianly NOT the actions of a company that's hostile to its 3rd party resellers. More like one that places the satisfaction of the CUSTOMER at the highest priority. And that's but one more reason *I* will be staying with Apple.
Plus, as another poster noted, ComputerWare was NEVER very competitive in the first place. Basiclly, they were where you would go as a last resort if you couldn't find something locally, and you didn't want to wait for mail-order. Sure, they were exclusively Macintosh; so their staff was more clued in; but that was only ever relevant to the non-tech-savvy anyway. They also carried random Apple trinkets like T-shirts, pens, stickers, and the like. If you wanted crap like that, ComputerWare was the first place to go.
But if you wanted hardware or software? No way. ComputerWare, so far as I could ever tell, sold EVERYTHING at the full MSRP. Except for the Macs themselves, most of the hardware they sold could be had at Frys or even CompUSA at 1/3-2/3 the price. And they sold three and even FIVE YEAR OLD games at full MSRP price from when they first came out. This, when the same games could be had in the bargain bin elsewhere in town for $15; or you could wait for MacWorld to roll into the Moscone Center and get them for $5. (Hell, even The Apple Store marks down the low-end games!!!)
Like I said, I don't know what happened behind the scenes. But from where I sit, The Apple Store was pretty supportive of ComputerWare, even at the possibility of their own expense. And ComputerWare was never, IMO, the perferred store to shop in the first place. My bet is that they only lasted as long as they did because of some of the more zealous Mac users who perferred to shop at a Mac-only store, even if it cost them more money than schlepping down to Frys or CompUSA.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
And frankly, it's not Apple's fault that Elite sucked. The number of complaints from their (ex)customers I've heard about them is astounding. Their management decisions, sales tactics, and repair records are all the explanation I need for their failure.
I've worked at an Apple Specialist before, who realized that the Apple Stores interact with a completely different market, and that there are entire market segments almost exclusively available to Specialists. They've continuously grown and become the largest and best Reseller / Specialist / Service Provider within a good 100 mile radius. Yes, there was a supply shortage when the new iMacs rolled out.. yes, MacWhorehouse and a couple of the newly opened Apple Stores got a handful of units before we did... but we still got the first stock in the county.
Every Apple Specialist and Reseller has a rep who covers a certain territory and takes care of "his stores", the shops in his area. Ours ROCKED. Totally on top of things, took care of ordering issues, advised about ways to improve store operations, suggested places to get additional income (it's all about the service department, baby!), helped the store plan out long-term strategy, and always was checking in on how the store was doing.
If Elite hadn't been a shady operation and had run themselves well (As ComputerWare and a number of other successful Apple Specialists have), worked cooperatively with their Apple liaisons, maintained a better-trained staff base (rather than paying them a crappy wage + dinky comission.. I interviewed @ one of their stores once and took another job), paid attention to the market and where Apple was opening stores, and only re-opened Computerware stores in GOOD locations, things might have turned out differently.
I remember shopping at the SF ComputerWare store (before it went out of business) for an iBook and it was a totally pleasant experience ... helpful people, no strings attached, all my questions answered and no hard sell. I liked shopping there. Was sad to hear that store was closed. I have no experience with the Elite Computers version.
Compare this with my recent trip to the Palo Alto store to buy a new iMac. Great store, great look, great browsing experience, but watch out if you actually want to buy a computer. The sales guy pulled out every add-on in the book, MS Office, AppleCare, an iSub, a printer, .Mac, sheez. I must have said "no, I just want the comptuer" five or six times.
I know times are hard in retail but that sure left a bad taste in my mouth. I still go to the Apple Store to browse but from now on, I'm buying my hardware online. No more pesky retail clerks to deal with.
As much as I regret saying this, I suspect that may be correct.
Apple has always been known for being friendly to the little fish, mom-and-pop Apple stores around the country, and individual users alike. Lately, however, they've gone a bit kamikazee on their closest allies when it comes to store fronts.
Granted, many Apple resellers out there are sub-par in presentation and product knowledge -- this is why Apple's own stores are doing so well. Apple Store reps can tell you anything about anything (or find out), and their store design and placement are the best in the industry.
Unfortunately, this means the little guys can't compete. I love the Apple Stores, but it means the end of independent, store-front resellers very quickly, and that is detrimental to the entire platform.
Within about 3-5 years (assuming that much "beleaugered" Apple doesn't bite the big one first), I expect that Apple will only have independent resellers in education and online.
Is Apple becoming another incarnation of Microsoft that just happens to give the users what they want, but will wind up holding all the keys?
Here's hoping not... (Roll the empirial march...)
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"Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
I don't know how many of you had ever been in a pre-Elite Computerware store but it was an exercise in frustration. It frequently took 5-10 minutes for a person to speak to you, their prices were terrible [frequently higher than MSRP] and their overall service was awful. I walked out in the middle of buying a $3000 computer there once because the clerk was being very rude to me. ECS should have dropped the Computerware brand, it was more of a liability than an asset.
They basically got squeezed from both sides by full service Apple VARs who dealt with businesses and cheaper mail order.
I'm going to be devil's advocate, and say that maybe the sales person was the problem. Used to work at CompUSA or something. From previous comments, it seems that this isn't necessarily the way they worked. Who knows; maybe he had a review that morning and got 'you haven't had an add-on sale all month' or something.
As long as you have one nearby, I'd say just give it another try. It's a couple of bucks in gas vs. shipping and whatever else comes with online orders. Yes, sometimes there is free shipping/add-ons/whatever. My point isn't simply the money, it's to not judge a store by one employee. "One data point does not a line make."
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.