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Is SARS From Mars?
lupulack writes "A news item at CTV.ca asks whether coronaviruses such as that implicated in SARS are in fact completely terrestrial in origin. It's not as clear cut as you might think !"
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what the hell do you think you're doing - posting stories from tabloids!?
This guy's reasoning seems to go something like this:
"This showed up all of a sudden, we've never seen anything like it, so it must be ALIENS! "
True, he is not suggesting that SARS is the first step of global domination by an actual extra-terrestrial intelligence, but he is saying that SARS came from a comet.
OK, let's break out Occam's razor. (strop, strop, strop. Hmmm, good and sharp.)
The explaination that requires the fewest ad-hoc assumptions is the most likely to be correct (as it has the fewest places to break).
Scenario 1: SARS is ET in origin. Required ad-hoc assumptions: there are viruses in space. Those viruses can infect humans. Those viruses can survive transport on a comet or other body from their point of origin and earth. None of those assumptions have much evidence to back them up.
Scenario 2: SARS is a naturally occuring virus that we have not seen before. Required ad-hoc assumptions: none.
OK, kids - which of these scenarios survives Occam's Razor?
www.eFax.com are spammers
I'm happy that science is alive and well in this world. Viruses, fortunately, are very likely not alive out of this world. I'm not even sure where these authors get off even suggesting that viruses come from outer space. Reasons:
1. Viruses are delicate. Being in outer space, crashing to earth, and infecting someone. A difficult task by itself.
2. Viruses evolve jointly with hosts. All evidence suggests that viruses have a very close (evolving) relationship with their hosts.
3. There are perfectly good theories with lots of evidence that explain new virus infections. For example, SARS may have come from a little evolution by a virus in a cat-like species of civet. It didn't help that the viruses new host happened to be a delicacy.
4. There may be lots of evidence that life exists outside of our planet, but (like #2) viruses require evolution from a similar host. That suggest the virus would have to get into space from earth first. That makes it extremely unlikely (IMO) that a virus could go to space get back and reinfect the same (or similar) species of host without being damaged.
5. Finally, (AFAIK) A VIABLE VIRUS HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND/CULTURED ON A METEOR!!!!
This theory is a little like suggesting that crop circles come from aliens even after the people who admitted building the first ones have come forward. It is possible, but very, very unlikely. (Personally, I hope that the rest of cosmological theories are attached to better evidence than this)
-Sean
The scientists quoted in the article don't provide a shred of evidence. They argue that it is possible that the pathogen responsible for SARS fell out of the stratosphere. They don't have any evidence to suggest it actually happened. Furthermore, they can't show any examples of living things falling from that altitude and surviving, nor can they even really provide a mechanism by which such a thing might be possible.
We already have an explanation of where SARS and other viruses come from: mutations of other human diseases or mutations of similar animal diseases. We already have an explanation for why many of these come from China: China has a large number of people in close proximity to farm animals, and most of these people do not have good sanitation. From the plague to influenza and even HIV, we can identify the animal links by which humans first became infected. These explanations have been tested and correctly predict future results: for example, immunologists look at pigs and ducks in Hong Kong when they decide which three strains of influenza the annual flu shots should protect against.
In contrast, a few British microbiologists are proposing that viruses fall from the stratosphere. It's certainly possible that they're right, but we're a long way from throwing out our current theories.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
#3 is SARS was an experimental weapon that leaked out accidentaly. Unlike previous cootieth that hit asia, with SARS there was too much hemming and hawing and keeping it secret when it first hit. And there still is. I first read of it back in novemeber, and details-even the city involved-were very sketchy. The complexities of it also tend to suggest human manufactured.
And apparently there's anecdotal now that the infection rate is higher than official numbers suggest, and it's being kept covered up, even inside the united states. Some leaks are appearing,via concerned health care workers.
That's always been my first completely wild a$$ guess on it, an incomplete weapon that escaped, but still quite nasty.
The World Health Organisation are now saying it's likely to have originated in civet cats
I expect the author of the theory that 'The Lancet' printed in their letter page will now follow up with an equally believable theory that the cats flew here from Mars.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
I heard an interesting discussion about viruses/plagues being trapped in glaicers. AS the glacier thaws, it is reintroduced to the world, which as since lost much of its resistance. Im not sure what evidence they have, but it is a neat idea.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
If you are publishing a respected medical journal, when reporting the words of a widely published doctor, it is important to check if it's this particular doctor or not!
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Coronavirus is from Mars, Chlamydia is from Venus.
Slashdot: News for Paranoids, Conspiracy Theorists, Pseudo-Scientists, Quacks, and Superstitious Folks: Stuff that the Establishment Wouldn't Tell You.
I can't believe this got posted.
Is your Brainus in Uranus?
Operator, give me the number for 911!
To put a couple of things straight first. Professor Wickramasinghe hasn't said that SARS comes from space. In the Lancet letter (free reg required), he says "With respect to the SARS outbreak, a prima facie case for a possible space incidence can already be made". Note the word "possible". Note the words "prima facie" (roughly="sufficient to warrant further investigation").
This isn't some crackpot who's just heard of SARS, can't understand epidemiology and therefore thinks it must have come from outer space without thinking things through. Along with Fred Hoyle, he's long been a proponent of panspermia - the theory that life originated in space, rather than on Earth.
There is plentiful evidence of complex organic molecules in cometary and interstellar material. The environment on periodically warmed comets is every bit as suitable for the generation of life as the alternative theory of the primordial soup. Organic compounds, quite tightly concentrated, intermittent energy, water. The theory is that life on Earth originated Out There, so it would be no surprise that DNA/RNA from space would fit earthly organisms - they share the same origins.
In his letter, Prof. Wickramasinghe estimates that "a tonne of bacterial material falls to Earth from space daily, which translates into some 10^19 bacteria, or 20 000 bacteria per square metre of the Earth's surface". It would be surprising if none of these found a viable host. On the rare occasion that there is a good match, a pandemic could result. We don't know if SARS started this way or not.
Note that meteors aren't involved. Nothing gets burned up on re-entry. The stuff just drifts in.
I don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's not as clear cut as some would like to think. It's just possible that data from Beagle2 this Christmas might help shed a little more light.
long answer: nope
...The rest of this Dr. Seuss book is left as an exercise for the reader.
It's more likely that the SARS virus quantum tunneled to earth through the dark matter membrane between our universe and a parallel dimension transversely embedded in subspace when intelligent negative energy beings empathicly remodulated the inverse temporal phase variance beyond the cubic Plank threshhold condensing the quark-gluon plasma into a metastable yet highly pourous and heterotropic configuration.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
The "UK scientist" is actually Dana Scully.
What's wrong with that theory is not the idea that viruses and microbes may rain down onto earth from space. It still doesn't seem particularly likely, but it's possible.
But a virus that infects human cells and evades the immune system sufficiently long to kill has to have evolved in vertebrates. So, unless the universe is filled with vertebrates and they have a habit of coughing in our general direction, that doesn't seem particularly plausible.
More likely, the SARS virus belongs to the viruses that we have never bothered to identify before: among viruses and microbial life, we have identified and characterized only a tiny fraction so far.
Whats the world coming to ?
:)
--- No 16-bit support in Vista? Half of our modules still use it! ---
race specific bioweapons certainly *appear* to be one of the holy grails for these sorts of insane madmen researchers. That was one of my first efforts to discover when I heard of the "new mystery flu" being reported, but it soon turned out to be not true, that it affects all comers. The mortality rate though, is through the roof, well above spanish flu. Hopefully it can be contained, I am not all that hopeful though, and with random and fast mutations, yes, no one is really an expert nor is this all that "preditable".
As to the US having dirty hands,with bio weapons and misuse of other biological agents, yes, unfortunately, the anecdotal that is available shows to more than a bit of duplicty on their part. Along with several other nations,the UN, and several international pharmcos, so we aren't alone in this monstrous endeavor.
I really do think advanced biotechnological research wil hold out the promise of the most amazing and for-the-good things imaginable,and will have some great successes, but in the end it will be *the* disaster (or series of overlapping disasters really) that scribes finis to the human species. Our arrogance in always assuming scientific invincibility will cause this.
via Mao
...and I'm by now means an expert in biology, but wouldn't a virus that infects human being pretty much have to evolve and develop in the presence of human beings. I mean sure - some viruses jump from animals to humans, but we're talking creatures whose gentic structure is what? Something that has a 25-30% difference in it's gene structure.
When was that last time you caught Dutch Elm Disease? A tree has more in common genetically with us than whatever hosts these virii developed on. What are the odds that a new one drops in and just happens to be a mutation or two away from being able to infect mankind?
Just my $0.02
Alright, it's offically gone too far. Insane eating habits are killing lots of people.
First, don't eat carnivores. Is that so frikkin' hard to understand? Besides being cute and fluffy, they're already at the top of the food chain. Do you understand what a bioaccumulator is? No, I didn't think so. Hint: it's a really bad idea. Also, beating puppies to death and eating them just shows what a pathetic waste of air you are.
Also, don't eat endangered species. Seriously, I'm sorry you've got a small dick, but eating a tiger penis isn't going to help - learn some other techniques.
And while you're at it, stop keeping pigs and chickens in your homes. It causes massive flu outbreaks every year, and that kills way more people than SARS.
And, Christ, how about not hunting the large fish to extinction either? Could you do without the McHammerheadShark Sandwich for a couple years? Try some farm-raised catfish or trout. You'll live.
OK, I'm done. No offense intended to those who do not engage in reckless and selfish eating habits.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I think the aliens return from work, watch telenovels, pay the bills in their mail, wash the dishes and go to bed.
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
No, but SIDS is.
"Smoking helps you lose weight - one lung at a time" -- A. E. Neumann
Civet coffee
First posting isn't trolling. It's...first posting.
SARS is a regular virus that has mutated due to certian countries habits for housing different kinds of livestock together in the same unsanitary pens for extened periods of time? This would allow the virus many many more chances than it would normally have for cross-species mutation. Over a long enough time frame (oh 2000 years or so I guess) I guess anything is possible...
Just a wild guess.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
everyone laughs at the UK. Shame on my stupid country!
as the article states it came from a far place called 'United Kingdom' (probably a planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse) and NOT fom an earthbound microbiologist.
the computer is online
i am not at it
what a waste of ressources
Now it is Mars sending viruses to Earth. I thought we are worried about Earth sending bacteria to Mars. Damn green little devils, they promised they won't do that.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
...to fight the axis of evil.
I'm afraid what we have here is "I don't understand how this could have come about, so the workers in the field may be overlooking something". It's not that far away from the creationists' logic, which shorn of a lot of verbiage, comes down to "I don't understand how modern forms of life could have resulted from an evolutionary process, therefore they must be the result of an external creative agent."
Looking at the panspermia.org site, I was saddened to see, in one of the recent papers 'Testing Darwinism versus Cosmic Ancestry" the following section:
(My italics)This is semantically equivalent to the creationist "argument from design" - how could (to take a favourite example) an organ as complex as a vertebrate's eye have arisen by random mutation? This question - and it is a valid one, and an explanation is indeed called for - was dealt with head on a few years ago by Richard Dawkins in his book "Climbing Mount Improbable". To summarise Dawkin's argument, the 'necessary mutations' were indeed not neutral. But they didn't arrive suddenly in their full-blown form, but in small steps, each of which confered a small advantage to organisms which carried them compared with organisms which did not. The individual steps that eventually resulted in an eye don't even need to have been connected with vision, or even sensitivity to light, at the start of the process. All that is needed is that small incremental advantage at the time a mutation occurred and enough time for effects of different mutations and combinations of mutations to affect survival, and time is something that life on Earth has had copious supplies of.
Apologies for the rant: I read physics at university, and get irritated when its practitioners start making ex cathedra pronouncements on topics outside their expertise.
Aren't we supposed to be boycotting Dr. Seuss Enterprises?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Instead of reasoning that diseases pop up near where the atmosphere is thinner, which seems to be giving me near-fatal bogon poisoning, why not say that diseases pop up most where health care is poorest? China, while it is developing, still has poor living conditions and restricted access to life-saving drugs. It makes perfect sense to me that SARS originated in China and not Europe or the US, just as cholera, malaria, and AIDS ravage Africa and not Europe nor the US.
ehhh, canadians are the same as anyplace else. We have national governments, which are all mostly corrupt, stupid, bribed off, blackmailed off, top heavy and slow to adapt. Theirs isn't any different from the US. There are differences in which areas they are more stoopid at. The people are just "people", normal. Want to work, take care of their kids, get ahead a little, and bitch about stuff in their spare time, and basically be left alone by government. It's fun though, I'll agree, to complain about nation-x, everyone does it.. I see the ubernationalism, and uber political party-ism posts on slashdot as roughly equivalent to sports team cheerleaders. Everyone's waste products have malodorus effluvium and attract flies. /me shrugs shoulders goes "eh"
/me stares at precious metals stashed, ability to stay self quarantined away from masses of humans for years, fuel stashed, food stashed, and lots of bullets. It's a good thing. I don't trust "official" spokespeople on anything now, lying is as good as the truth for them, and they are interchangeable.
I think that SARS right now is much worse than they are letting on, all around the world, just a lot of folks aren't dying from it, but getting a case of the month long "flu-like experience", and then it doesn't get reported as SARS. It's a *medical establishment* variant of the big level accounting scandals, where for some reason they can report a liability as an asset, and show inflated "goodness". Same with mad cow (CJK) now is being reported as "alzheimers". Same with the US buck tanking, this is now mysteriously a "good thing". I just heard an interesting data-no verification, heard it on the radio and too lazy to google for it-that the iraqi dinar was trading against the buck pre-wewar at so many thousands per buck, now it's 600 to one buck. That should tell people in the market and with savings account in the banks something *real*, but they'll wait for permission off the 6 o clock news or something to notice it.
And with that said, if canada was just a scosh different I'd like to move there, right now though, flawed as it is, the US still "barely" gets the nod. That might change though, and fast. IF canada was to seperate into self governing soverign nations, I would consider one of the western provinces if they rolled back a lot of their big brotherism and followed roughly a US styled constitution or better, the articles of confederation, which to me was a better governmental design. Or if any US states did that, perhaps along the Freestate project guidelines. And if those guys pick Idaho, I WILL move.