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President Of India Advocates OSS

cOdEgUru writes "I am sure this is a first. The President of India has urged Indian IT Professionals to develop and specialise in OSS rather than Windows. To be noted is that he made the speech (look for the "Think Different" section) at the famous Indian Institute of Information Technology (India's foremost academic institution equivalent to MIT). Also he reminisces that his meeting with Mr.Gates were difficult due to differing views concerning OSS and Security. What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost."

111 of 702 comments (clear)

  1. Great by gexen · · Score: 3, Funny

    Great for India. This is a great thing. If only the Indian food place near me would open source the recipe for Chicken Tika Mahkani.

    1. Re:Great by flokemon · · Score: 2, Informative

      It might not be the exact recipe from your local Indian restaurant, but you can find a recipe here or here for instance.

      Has anyone else got difficulties getting used to ./'s new colours?

    2. Re:Great by Flabby+Boohoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just found a tool that can answer most questions like that... don't tell anyone, it'll be our little secret!

  2. Microsoft by barryfandango · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder how these changes in the political climate of software will affect Microsoft's Indian software development division?

    --
    In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
    1. Re:Microsoft by fussman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Attention all Microsoft Employees: WORK HARDER!!!

      --
      Support Israeli punk bands. Man Alive.
    2. Re:Microsoft by The+Cydonian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Here's a possible answer.

      Incidentally, the Microsoft India Development Center is located very close to the other International Institute of Information Technology campus in Hyderabad (Dr Kalam gave the speech in I-squared-IT, Pune).

      In a way I guess, it wasn't surprising that Dr Kalam delivered a pro-OSS/Software Libre speech at an IIIT; been to the Hyderabad campus last year, and honestly, it was a weird feeling looking at a lab full of people using Emacs in Devanagri script. (They were using/developing Anusaraka)

      Yes, that's right trolls, they've successfully resolved two computer-related jehads out there. :-)

    3. Re:Microsoft by jkrise · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "I wonder how these changes in the political climate of software will affect Microsoft's Indian software development division?"

      Neither India nor MS seem to be indesparate need of each other, atleast for the software development. The total no. of emps in MS- India is less than 500, an insignificant fraction of the IT manpower of India.

      Except for SFU and now a command-shell with .Net elemnts, MS does not do it's core development in India. Even if this got relocated to the US, I doubt if any significant cost escalation could accrue to MS.

      The only reasons (as I understand) that MS does development in India could be PR and to promote their brand of IP and respect to IP. All in all, this development could affect sales of MSware and ruffle a few diplomatic feathers, but is unlikely to do anything to MS s/w development efforts.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    4. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I know for a fact that this is not a first. At least one other central government backed Open Source initiative has been featured in slashdot:

      Venezuela Goes Open Source

      The venezuelan central government (from the president to lower representatives) has pushed for over a year a policy where all software financed by the government must be licensed using a OSI approved Open Source license.

    5. Re:Microsoft by stanmann · · Score: 2, Insightful
      U.S. corporations are prohibited by law from offering bribes to foreign governments, which always places them at a competitive disadvantage when competing with European firms.
      And which doesn't usually stop them, except that they must figure out creative ways to list it on their books. Although, it does confuse many of them, as it isn't the customary way we in the US do business.
      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
    6. Re:Microsoft by cygnusx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The President of India can. He is a head of state (not head of government) and largely ceremonial, wielding no real power (bit like British Royalty or Australia's Governer General). So his statement has no more weight than Prince Philip saying modern English Architecture sucks -- it is just an opinion. Of course, the current Indian president is a widely respected missile scientist (and IIRC once head of India's space programme) and is technically savvy, but there's no way the Indian government is going to act on what he says.

      The day India's prime minister (who holds all real power) says this, it'll be news.

    7. Re:Microsoft by gilesjuk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not at all, India knows it is in a win-win situation. The main reason why Microsoft are investing there is the time difference. Testing can be done in India while the US is sleeping, US programmers can then arrive at work the next day and read the results.

      Sure there are other countries with similar time offsets, but Indians for the most part speak good english and those who study computing are well trained.

    8. Re:Microsoft by OldTurkeyBuzzard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True that it does not affect M$ at all. Anyway, advocacy of Open Source Stuff is one thing - it will rub off well on the student community alone but what happens once they take up jobs in Indian IT companies? Point to be noted is, Indian IT companies thrive on developing stuff on M$ware, with M$ware for M$ware. With the Open Source _business_ model yet to prove itself globally, no one's gonna take this up in India - at least in the foreseeable future.

    9. Re:Microsoft by saden1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      <>

      What do you call Lobbying? Donations? Political Action Committee?

      --

      -----
      One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
    10. Re:Microsoft by Namaseit · · Score: 2, Informative

      say what. Ok that makes no sense. Open source has been proven around the world. Its called a developement community. Brazil is already completely on linux. UK is considering. Munich, Germany is putting linux on 14,000 of its workstations and servers. Asia loves linux. Some countries in Africa are using linux systems. Mexico, well hell its where gnome founder Miguel de Icaza is from. Linux is a worldwide developement.

      --
      75% of all statistics are made up!
  3. In India by r0xah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is really great statement to be made, but I wonder how well taken by the students it will be. A lot of the students who attend IIT attend so that they can be marketable in a big business like Microsoft. Working on OSS while a great thing is not going to bring them the same potential monitary gains as working for a big name software company. It would be great for a country the population of India to listen and follow their leaders urging, but I seriously doubt in a country where many are trying to break free of poverty that they will work for next to nothing on OSS.

    --
    those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. -isaac asimov
    1. Re:In India by heytal · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am from India, and have been reading these things on /. in the recent stories on India. India is not a poor country, where everyone is just trying to break free of poverty. Please.

      There is a sizeable population in India which earns very well and significantly contributes to the Indian economy.

    2. Re:In India by afidel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are quite a few large companies looking for OSS talent out there including one of the computing world's largest: IBM. Besides right now Linux is more of a niche because all of the MS certification mills and training centers have flooded the windows market but there isn't really an equivilant in the linux world so while demand is rising quickly the supply isn't.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:In India by pubjames · · Score: 5, Informative

      It would be great for a country the population of India to listen and follow their leaders urging, but I seriously doubt in a country where many are trying to break free of poverty that they will work for next to nothing on OSS

      You assume that

      working on OSS == working for nothing.

      Take a look at the kernel development list. You will find that nearly everyone working on the kernel is employed by a big IT company.

      Similarly with most other successful OSS projects. IBM has lots of people working on open source. Ditto RedHat, Suse, HP, Sun, AOL and others. I think it is time we dropped this idea that OSS programmers all do it for free - it isn't the case.

    4. Re:In India by Charlotte · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Working on OSS while a great thing is not going to bring them the same potential monitary gains as working for a big name software company.

      I think you underestimate the power of the Open Side. Though I have a nice degree and make good money, for any future employment I will primarily refer to my work on open source projects as proof that I am as qualified as I claim to be. Open source work like this - done in the public eye and peer reviewed - has become the best kind of resume and the best way to a good job.

      As the economy picks up I'm sure my department will be hiring new system administrators and programmers. If you get two candidates with similar skills, one who worked at Microsoft and one who is maintainer of some Linux kernel driver, who would you hire?

    5. Re:In India by Alsee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I seriously doubt in a country where many are trying to break free of poverty that they will work for next to nothing on OSS.

      Exacly. No one ever gets paid to write, fix, or administer opensource code. [sarcasm]

      If those programmers in India want to get paid they have to write, fix, and administer Microsoft code. Errr, oops. Only Microsoft can write or fix Microsoft code. The only thing a typical techie in India can do is administer Microsoft software.

      Heck, maybe you're right. If Microsoft software becomes expensive enough to administer maybe it will make up for the lack of a job doing anything else.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:In India by nathanh · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I am from India, and have been reading these things on /. in the recent stories on India. India is not a poor country, where everyone is just trying to break free of poverty. Please.

      You must remember that you are speaking with an American. In their eyes, if you don't live in the "Good Ol' US of A" then you are living in a gutter and probably a terrorist.

    7. Re:In India by ddangerkid · · Score: 5, Informative

      Note that the article summary incorrectly identifies the venue of the speech as an IIT. The institute that Kalam inaugurated is an IIIT (note the 3 I-s?), or Indian Insititue of Information Technology; these teach people to program, as opposed to the IITs (Indian Institute of Technology) which, among other things, teach computer science. May I point out they have an /excellent/ Aerospace Engineering program? (alumnus pride)

    8. Re:In India by ramzak2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and you must be an indian. In your eyes everyone who lives in America are filthy rich, running around with nude babes talking trash about people living in other countries.

      Let keep generalizations away from conversations.

      --

      Siggy Say, Siggy Do
    9. Re:In India by Malachi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You must remember that you are speaking with an American. In their eyes, if you don't live in the "Good Ol' US of A" then you are living in a gutter and probably a terrorist.

      You must not be an American or you would realize that not all of us are so stereotypical. As with all countries we are as diversified as the next, as argumentative and debative of our governments role, and have the uneducated along with the educated, so please, do not lump us all into a simplistic catagory.

      -M-

      --
      "Life is all about strategy, mathematics and psychological perceptiveness."
    10. Re:In India by nathanh · · Score: 4, Funny
      I guess someone as smug, smart and wordly as you are would know all about India's woes.

      India's woes? I was insulting Americans. I guess what they say about Americans is true; you guys really can't detect sarcasm without a laugh track.

      I'm also glad to see that you have a second account so you can mod yourself up.

      Haha, I don't have a second account. I guess there are simply people out there who know what sarcasm is.

    11. Re:In India by cduffy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really, now? Most of the OSS work I've been has been on *someone*'s payroll -- either a Linux company (such as MontaVista Software, where I did porting, packaging and development for a few years) or some other company who needed to get the work done where the fastest way was to modify some OSS solution (such as my current employer -- for instance, my Ticket Applet port to GNOME2 was done for internal use on our workstations; I've submitted also at least one patch to GConf which resolves issues we were having internally). We use other open source tools internally as well (though the product we're developing is proprietary), and any additional bugfixes or features done on those tools to better support our developer staff will be my work.

      So... I write OSS, and it pays. Not *just* writing OSS -- I do much else as well -- but being able to pick up these codebases and debug or work with them contributes substantially to my value as an employee.

      I suspect that folks in a situation such as my own are far more common than you think.

    12. Re:In India by jkrise · · Score: 2, Troll

      "This is really great statement to be made, but I wonder how well taken by the students it will be."

      Considering that Indian students are respected the world over, even by His Billness, while presiding over a meeting of IIT alumni in Clifornia recently, one would assume the students would be clever enough to understand the import of the statement.

      "A lot of the students who attend IIT attend so that they can be marketable in a big business like Microsoft."

      For your info., ALL IIT students run Linux on their systems in the campus. All the IITs host the local LUGs (Linux User Groups). No self-respecting IITian would touch an MCSE with a bargepole. IITs and indeed most of India have been using computers since the past 15 years or more. Companies like Wipro Infotech even developed their own OSes (WDOS - a menu based OS with Cobol) long ago - 1987. And again, the average MCSE earns less than $100 a month. I'm not joking or trolling here. No wonder Indians consider MSware as expensive disposable junk.

      "I seriously doubt in a country where many are trying to break free of poverty that they will work for next to nothing on OSS."

      Kudos for making 2 mistakes in 1 sentence! Indian geeks are much sought after by the girls here, make more money, have more fun, and are well respected in society. They live in luxurious apartments, enjoy about 70 channels of television at $3 per month (incldg. CNN and BBC).

      Geeks hese days get work only on OSS. The hot thing in India today is embedded devices and mobile phone tech, both of which use OSS as their basis. Indians think little of the 'gratis' WinCE licensing and free access to the VS.Net bait.

      Guess you'd do well to take a $2,000 flight to India and watch for yourself.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    13. Re:In India by cduffy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ongoing maintainership (maintains a driver rather than wrote or maintained a driver) is more than a name, though. Some kernel driver written by one individual might be picked up and maintained by someone else, if the original author doesn't meet the high standards of the kernel maintainers. It additionally implies a willingness to make a commitment to old code rather than abandoning it (certainly a good thing in a new employee!), being politically adept enough to get along sanely with the kernel folks (not always easy), and assorted other good qualities.

      That said, of course I see your point -- hiring someone based on their resume alone is of course a bad idea. But just having somewhere on ones resume as "I worked here" is a much easier thing to have, and far less valuable, than the ongoing maintainership of some portion of the kernel (likewise for most large, high-profile projects with a good number of developers).

    14. Re:In India by nathanh · · Score: 3, Funny
      You must not be an American or you would realize that not all of us are so stereotypical. As with all countries we are as diversified as the next, as argumentative and debative of our governments role, and have the uneducated along with the educated, so please, do not lump us all into a simplistic catagory.

      It really detracts from a joke if you have to explain it, but I'm getting hate mail so I guess I'll have to spell this one out.

      For all the really slow people out there, I'm using something called S-A-R-C-A-S-M. When that nitwit "r0xah" claimed that Indians are trying to "break free of poverty" - possibly the stupidest thing I've heard all year - I used S-A-R-C-A-S-M to highlight the ignorant claim. You see, what I did was turn the stereotype around and claim that Americans are all redneck bigots just like r0xah.

      Now I realise that you have a gun-toting monkey for a president so perhaps some of you yanks took me too seriously. With somebody like that in power you can be forgiven for getting a tad defensive. I forgive you all! At least a few moderators seemed to get the joke; there might be hope for the rest of you yanks, yet!

    15. Re:In India by nathanh · · Score: 2, Funny
      u have greatly offended me...

      If you are an American than "huzzah, that's another point for the home team". Pints all 'round! Drinks are on me!

    16. Re:In India by pmz · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...I'm using something called S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

      I've gotten bitten by this before. Using sarcasm on Slashdot without using appropriate sarcasm markup tags can be dangerous. Slashdot readers range in density from fluffy air to depleted uranium, with the distribution weighted heavily to either extreme.

      Now I realise that you have a gun-toting monkey for a president...

      Please, don't offend the monkey! He's sensitive, you know.

    17. Re:In India by miu · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It really detracts from a joke if you have to explain it, but I'm getting hate mail so I guess I'll have to spell this one out.

      You should have expressed the joke in terms /. understands.

      In Soviet Russia gun-toting monkey elects YOU! All your terrorist Indian OSS developer base are belong to US.
      Then followed it up with a Apu Quik-E mart joke. If you are realy looking to change those -1 flame to +5 funny then make a step 1..N joke out of the Simpsons quote.

      It seems to be too late though, you have some asshat coward bombing you with overrated now.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    18. Re:In India by $rtbl_this · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you get two candidates with similar skills, one who worked at Microsoft and one who is maintainer of some Linux kernel driver, who would you hire?

      Depends on which one gives the best head.

      --
      "Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
    19. Re:In India by xzap · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're right. I think what the original poster intended was the stop people from stereotyping India and starting to bash it for poverty and corruption every time a new piece about some new developments in India is posted to /.

      Fine, theres a lot of corruption AND poverty here. But that doesn't mean they dont deserve any credit for the good things they do.

    20. Re:In India by be-fan · · Score: 2, Informative

      He said "sizable population" not "sizable percentage." It's an absolute value. The number of wealthy educated people, even though relatively small percentage-wise, is a large number in absolute terms. Since the original post as was about OSS software development, what matteres is not the percentage, but sheer numbers. Estimates put the size of the Indian middle class at 40-250 million people. That's a very sizable number, comparable to the total population of most European countries. Also, remember that among the Indian middle class, technology is a very common field of study. So the total number of potential OSS contributers in India (which, again, is what this thread is about) is a huge number.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    21. Re:In India by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno, seemed pretty accurate to me - and funny, to boot. Guess it was so close to reality it hit a sore spot with some folks.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    22. Re:In India by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When sarcasm is misinterpeted as serious, people are all gung-ho about blaming the reader for misinterpeting it. I say bullshit. The reason sarcasm is often mistaken for the real thing is that there really *do* exist people dumb enough to say stupid things and mean it. If I see a total stranger say something truely stupid, I can't safely assume that it was someone who knows better and was just trying to be funny. It is just as likely, nay even MORE likely, to be someone dumb enough to really mean it. Only if I know you better can I tell you aren't really that dumb.

      For sarcasm to work, the speaker has to be respected. Sarcasm from a total stranger doesn't work if the sarcastic comment is the first thing you've ever read by that person, or remember reading by that person.

      So, when sarcasm fails, the fault lies with those dumb enough to say such things and really mean it,
      not with the reader who didn't "get it".

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  4. He talked to BillG about opensource.. by heytal · · Score: 2, Redundant

    In his speech, he said:
    I would like to narrate an event that took place in Rashtrapati Bhavan a few months back when I met Bill Gates, the CEO of Microsoft. While walking in the Mughal garden, we were discussing the future challenges in Information Technology including the issues related to software security. I made a point that we look for open source codes so that we can easily introduce the users built security algorithms. Our discussions became difficult since our views were different.

    1. Re:He talked to BillG about opensource.. by jkrise · · Score: 2, Informative

      I also remember reading articles today, by a couple of Americans - the outgoing Robert Blackwill, mentioning the imbalance in trade between the US and India - 5 billion vs. 15 billion; and another gentleman suggesting India open it's markets to leading American hitech firms - Boeing and Microsoft! Boeing maybe, but Microsoft?

      Considering SFU was developed entirely in India, as well as the fact that all top 20 IT and commn giants have a direct presence in India, Microsoft would come rather late in th list of hitech firms.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    2. Re:He talked to BillG about opensource.. by Eagle7 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thank you... I am now less intelligent as a result of having read that comment.

      --
      _sig_ is away
  5. Indian president is a technocrat.. by heytal · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot readers may remember that APJ Abdul Kalam, the President of India, is a scientist. He has worked towards developing missiles and the nuclear research of India. He is indeed a rocket scientist.

    1. Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is embarrassing actually. We're not even sure Bush can read without some help sounding-out the big words...

    2. Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. by gmajor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Abdul Kalam is no scientist. That is just the way he has marketed himself in order to maximize political gains.

      You will probably say that he worked 40 years in the DRDO, India's main Defense research organization. He was an administrator (i.e. management) for DRDO, not a scientist. And his "doctorate" is an honorary doctorate --- he only holds a Bachelor's degree.

      100% politician.

    3. Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. by rahulnair · · Score: 3, Informative

      NASA invited this "politician" to spend 4 months at the the Wallops Island Rocketry Centre and the Langley Research Centre.

      He also has a DMIT in Aeospace Engineering from MIT (Madras) which incidentally has 2 nobel laureates which is more than can be said than for several american school including Georgia tech(Jimmy Carter's prize for peace hardly counts) If you really want to learn about this great man and his career read his autobiography "Wings of fire"

    4. Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. by intelligent+poster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And this shows that he is smart how? Having a pilot's license is a measure of intelligence. ROFL. So did Mohammed Ata, and I am sure that he is not exactly classified as an Einstein. Dr. Kalam speaks at least four languages (and I am probably understanting it a fair bit - Tamil, Hindi, English, and yes Urdu - he is a _Muslim_. What does that say about tolerance/diversity?) You think speaking Spanish is hard? I have picked up the language in two months, its so similar to English. Try doing that with any two of the languages I just mentioned above.

      Getting a degree from Yale (or Harvard, whatever and with a C average to boot) is *definitely* not always a measure of intelligence. Getting into an Ivy league school only requires money and influence. Let me quote

      He [Kalam] is the Vice President of Astronautical Society of India, Fellow of the Indian National Academy of Engineering and Indian Academy of Sciences, Bangalore, and an Honorary Fellow of the Institution of Electronics and Telecommunication Engineers ...... (edited for brevity)

      As regard's America's president -- I really think they need a reformer who is willing to have the courage to come up with concrete solutions to the problems created by the US and other countries rather than someone who wakes up in the morning and decided it would be fun to invade another country to improve his popularity ratings (and a "terror dial" to scare gullible Americans. Orange and everyone runs to hide under the kichten table and store duct tape. He He. What a riot). This country is so blind to news from outside. As you might have guessed by now, I am from India and when I see that something called __World__ news tonight has as lead story something about fighting in Israel and all other stories items like how some guy was arrested in Texas someplace for smoking pot or whatever, I realize how important world news really is to this country. And this even after "everything changed" after ...... ....... .......
      drumroll ..... .....

      9/11!!!

      I suppose I'd have a similar opinion of human morality / nature if I lived in a nation which tolerates systematic human degradation as India does.

    5. Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      character is a lot more important, and he's far more a man of his word than Al Gore

      And let's not forget:

      - he's a deserter who went AWOL for 2 years and never saw the inside of a prison for his actions;

      - he's a drug addict and alcoholic;

      - he's currently involved in some of the shadiest deals ever administered by a U.S. President re the 'rebuilding' of Iraq, the vast majority of these contracts going to personal friends or the friends of his vice President.

      Yep, Bush is a real trustworthy sort. I have no doubt whatsoever that Gore would've been equally vile, but all this does is prove that they're *both* scumbags.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    6. Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. by phliar · · Score: 2, Interesting
      President Bush has a pilot's license and flew F-102 Delta Darts in the Air National Guard---have you ever flown a plane from Texas to Washington DC? (Bush did that once for a date w/ Pres. Nixon's daughter Pat ;)
      What the hell is the big deal with getting a pilot's license? Any idiot can get one -- I know, I have (am!) one. But I didn't get a cushy National Guard pilot job instead of being sent to Vietnam; and I didn't follow that up by deserting from -- er, I mean just not being there -- even that sinecure. (I wish I could have spent thousands of dollars of taxpayers' money to get laid.) As to the rest of your little political rant: come on! Everyone believes he's an idiot, even people who think he has done a good job as president. I don't want a "man of his word" if that only means "not lying about illicit sex on national TV" -- I just want the damn country running better than it has been the last couple of years.

      "As regards India's president [something much worse that they should work on instead]" -- my mom told me to watch out when you hear something like that, it's a ploy to distract. India, like any rational society, should work on all its problems -- different amounts based on resources and importance. I think that assuring India's technological future so that future riches would allow solving other problems is a reasonable stance for him to take. Why not invest in the future too, instead of getting obsessed by the present?

      --
      Unlimited growth == Cancer.
  6. true wisdom. by sweeney37 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Mohandas Gandhi once said:
    Non-cooperation with evil is a sacred duty.

    It's obvious Ghandi would of never used Microsoft.

    Mike

    1. Re:true wisdom. by s20451 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder what Ghandi would say about the president of India having helped design nuclear missiles?

      I suspect he would have something to say about that before getting his shorts in a knot over Microsoft's EULA.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    2. Re:true wisdom. by Alsee · · Score: 4, Funny

      design nuclear missiles

      Well India needs to some sort of deterrent against Microsoft.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    3. Re:true wisdom. by jkrise · · Score: 4, Informative

      "what Ghandi would say about the president of India having helped design nuclear missiles?"

      Actually, Gandhi believed in the doctrine of Ahimsa, or non-violence. His brand was a bit different from that of the Jesus "Slap-my-left-cheek-and-I'll-show-you-my-right" brand.

      While advocating tolerance to evil, Gandhi also extolled self-defence and defence-preparedness. To sum up, Gandhi would've approved the design of nuclear misiles, but with a rider - to be employed after all other peaceful avenues (Ahimsa - non-violence, satyagraha - The path of Truth) etc. were exhausted.

      With reference to MS, this could have meant - If MS lives and lets Open Source live - no worries. If they adopt an either-you-or-me attitude, then it's time to act positively and decisively.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    4. Re:true wisdom. by arvindn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dr. Kalam is a vocal advocate of peace. He maintains, however, that the existence of nukes in the subcontinent is one of the things that contributes to that aim, due to its deterrent value. So there's no contradiction here.

    5. Re:true wisdom. by hughk · · Score: 2, Informative
      Actually I would see Pakistan as the greater danger. There are plenty of Pakistanis who are ok but the country hasn't been democratic for more than a few years at a time.

      A combination of a military and religious extremisim in an undemocratic country is not exactly consucive to peace. China is less of a danger now that at least some eonomic reforms have taken place, which give a form of democracy.

      India isn't a particularly agressive country and apart from the expense (when so many remain so poor), I don't have any problems with them being armed, particularly with Pakistan next door.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    6. Re:true wisdom. by The+Cydonian · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or more precisely, on Dr Kalam leading the team which made the nuke bomb.:-)

      Two different perspectives on this. Larry Collins and Dominic Lapierre, in their extremely readable book, Freedom at Midnight, had suggested that India's testing of the bomb in 1970's was the final break from Mahatma Gandhi's path of non-violence and ahimsa. Raj Chengappa, in a much later book on Pokhran II, Weapons of Peace, asked the same question to the nuclear team, which, of course, consisted of Dr Kalam. The team apparently had their conscience clear; they were developing nuclear weapons not to increase India's fighting ability, but to increase its deterrent ability. We had, to be sure, "not seeked territory in a thousand years" (or something like that; quoting the words from memory), and that, therefore, Gandhiji would have approved.

      I'm sure the team meant well, and personally, I've always admired Dr Kalam and the other team leader, Dr Chidambaram, but with all due respects, the deterrent ability of India's nukes (and indeed our missiles) have long been answered on the snow-capped peaks of Kargil. They are not going to stop terrorists from killing Indian nationals or attacking Indian installations, establishments and everything we hold dear. Not just that, we must also note that large-scale industries are not discouraged, alchohol is not prohibitted (or even if it was, the prohibition has been lifted), or village-level self-governance is not encouraged.

      I don't know if Gandhiji would have approved, but let's at least be honest here:- India has left Gandhi a long time back, during the days of our first PM, Nehru itself, when we had established factories, dams and other large scale industries that Gandhiji detested so much.

  7. It is I2IT not IIT! by yodha · · Score: 5, Informative

    The President made the speech at the new International Institute Of Information Technology (I2IT) not at IIT.

  8. What should be noted... by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 5, Insightful


    What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost.

    Everyone thinks they are independent thinkers. Someone else is an independent thinker if you agree with him, otherwise he's just being difficult.

  9. Not the same situation. by StarKruzr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    India is a growing market, not an already established one. Microsoft is no more "entrenched" there than OSS software is. They could go either way at this point, and if the government (which has lots of nice, fat contracts to hand out to developers) is strongly in favor of OSS, that turns the tide pretty strongly in favor of the Open Source camp.

    --

    +++ATH0
  10. Correction! by arvindn · · Score: 3, Informative
    To be noted is that he made the speech (look for the "Think Different" section) at the famous Indian Institute of Information Technology (india's foremost academic institution equivalent to MIT). .

    There are two things wrong with that: first, you got the name wrong: he made the speech at the "International Institute of Information Technology". Second, you're probably confusing it with IIT, Indian Institute of Technology, which is the one that fits the description of India's foremost academic institution. Two unrelated universities.

  11. Re:Anti-Americanism/Microsoftism by thelexx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Euro/dollar activity has little to do with peoples general feelings toward America and much more to do with the fact that Fed Governor Bernanke said, paraphrasing, "we have this thing called a printing press, and we aren't afraid to use it", combined with Alan G saying that we don't have enough inflation.

    --
    "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
  12. end-to-end solutions by flokemon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He added that India should emerge not only as a software industry but as an "ICT (Information and communication technology) industry" with equal strengths in software, hardware, embedded systems design, integration and total end-to-end solutions.

    I think India is to be reckoned with in the future. Take the pharmaceutical industry at the moment, India has big companies manufacturing generic medicines.
    That story actually reminded of that: give them the source/ingredients and they will try to make it, but cheaper. Obviously they can't make free software any cheaper, but if they try to make it a complete solution, then why couldn't they have a chance of succeeding?
    The major problem they are facing at the moment imho is probably a lack of qualified IT people, but give them time, and they will surely be there.

  13. It makes sense by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It makes sense, since the President of India is a top-level scientist (I believe he headed India's nuclear programme) and not a clueless buffoon.

    Note for the humour impaired: this is a joke

  14. Bit Slanted.... by moehoward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find the subjective statement that "he is not a politician" to be exceptionally slanted. Clearly, the submitter has alterior motives. It has a certain Clintonian ring to it that suggests that the submitter is the guy's campaign manager.

    Any guesses as to what these motives are? How could you say that the leader of the largest democracy in the world is not a politician, first and foremost?

    I think the slashdot editors should have stripped that subjective statement from the story. Just because a guy advocates OSS doesn't put him on some new plane of existance.

    Anyway, hooray for gov't backed OSS. I'm sure if Bush came out and made the same speech, he'd be crucified on slashdot in some strange way.

    30% offtopic, 40% troll, 30% flamebait, 5% funny, 5% love

    --
    "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
    1. Re:Bit Slanted.... by heytal · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Indian President, unlike the American president, is a ceremonial head of the state. All the powers lie in the hands of the Prime Minister (currently Atal Bihari Vajpayee). The president of India need not be a politician, and is not elected by the large electorate. The lawmakers elect the president.

      The Indian President, APJ Abdul Kalam, has received the highest civilian award in India, Bharat Ratna, before he was elected President. He is a nuclear Scientist, who headed India's defense laboratories.

    2. Re:Bit Slanted.... by The+Cydonian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the submitter was trying to hint at he fact that Dr APJ Abdul Kalam isn't a career politician, but was in fact, largely responsible for India's missile, space and nuclear programmes (Pokhran II that is).

      He was elected virtually unopposed, with token opposition from a Communist Party nominee, so if the submitter was indeed Dr Kalam's campaign manager, he probably had one of the easiest jobs in the world. :-)

      Any case, this isn't quite governmental approval for OSS/Software-Libre; it's more like Dr Kalam's nod to his scientist/engineer colleagues in a presumably OSS-friendly campus. Someone in the Parliament did ask the Indian Minister of Information Technology if he would mandate the exclusive use of OSS in government departments; the Minister apparently went on record saying that the IT procurement policy will depend on the task at hand, and not how the technology has been developed.

      (Which, of course, is a fair statement to make, and personally, I'm glad that the government thinks that way; shows that there's at least some semblance of a clue at Raisana Hill. For, most believe we lost the hardware game precisely because of such closed-minded policies; in 1977, the then socialist government drove the international electronics players out, giving the entire Indian market to four or five government-run electronics companies. Reason:- the powers-that-be didn't like phoreners operating freely in India.

      OSS *should* win; but solely on technological merit. Not for ideological reasons)

  15. Okay, It's time for another tech boom by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    India is really making gains in the IT world. They are also a rapidly expanding and potentially quite vast market. If a company can get enough of a foothold in India, we may see someone other than MS dominate there.

    1 000 000 000 million people worldwide using an Os that isn't Windows..... Now, that would clobber Microsoft's world domination plans.

    On a side note, anyone know how I can invest in India's IT stocks?

    1. Re:Okay, It's time for another tech boom by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Funny

      1 000 000 000 million people worldwide using an Os that isn't Windows

      Fuck I better start impregnating women like crazy if we are going to hit those numbers, but if thats what it takes to beat MS I am prepared to suffer and do it. Girls please form an orderly queue outside my door. Preferably supermodels/fit actresses types to the front.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
  16. This is what he said.. by heytal · · Score: 4, Informative

    The most unfortunate thing is that India still seems to believe in proprietary solutions. Further spread of IT which is influencing the daily life of individuals would have a devastating effect on the lives of society due to any small shift in the business practice involving these proprietory solutions. It is precisely for these reasons open source software need to be built which would be cost effective for the entire society. In India, open source code software will have to come and stay in a big way for the benefit of our billion people.

  17. Pebbles by brettlbecker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The leader of the world's most populous democratic (as far as that term goes, anyway) nation advocates the development (and thus the use) of open-source software. Completely excellent.

    With this announcement following the Munich decision, it will be interesting to see if any further cities/states begin to take a closer look at open-source alternatives. If these increasingly influential parties have some success with this decision, then I would think that this could be quite the spur to others who are getting fed up with being strangluated by the ever-more restrictive licensing and lowest-common-denominator quality of many proprietary products.

    Are we perhaps watching the pebble begin to roll?

    B

    --
    "We must still have chaos within in order to be able to give birth to a dancing star." --Friedrich Nietzsche
  18. Optimistic by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He may not be a pure politician but theres a lot of political optimism in the numbers he's looking for regarding growth. Indian IT will not keep growing the at the rate it is now for much longer, I'n not saying it wont grow, just not at the rate they are projecting. It strikes me as very naive and shortsighted for a leader to put so many economic eggs in one basket by baking on IT to prop up the economy. Its not oil or Gold, customers can get it somewhere else.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  19. makes sense by ramzak2k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For a country like india to invest in open source. They have the IT manpower, a huge indegenous market with enough demand to absorb anything that is created even if they dont prove successful oversees where microsoft is already a dominant player. I dont know what Gates discussed with the President of India about security, it sure dint go too well.

    Also, it should be noted that the president of india is not directly elected by the people unlike united states & does not carry that much of a power. I would like to hear something like this from the prime minister of India - which will not happen because industry lobbyists are effective where there is a need for money to run in elections.

    --

    Siggy Say, Siggy Do
  20. IIT, IIIT and I2IT by rmathew · · Score: 4, Informative
    To be noted is that he made the speech (look for the "Think Different" section) at the famous Indian Institute of Information Technology (India's foremost academic institution equivalent to MIT).

    RTFA!

    He made the speech at the International Institute of Information Technology (I2IT) not at an Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT).

    By no stretch of the imagination are any of these India's foremost academic institutions. The submitter perhaps meant one of the Indian Institute of Technologies (IIT) here...

  21. Re:Anti-Americanism/Microsoftism by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As an American I beleive Microsoft is evil and worth ganging up on. Monopolies are the end of capitalism, this is econ 101. MS has gotten too big, assumed monopoly status and needs to be broken. I hope the rest of the world succeeds where Americans have failed. It MUST be destroyed.

  22. Re:Anti-Americanism/Microsoftism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's not anti-americanism to hate the rabid dog you guys have let run free in the name of capitalism.

    Rein in MS before you become the only country left beholden to it ...

  23. presidentofindia.nic.in runs IIS on Win2k by hotchai · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh the irony!

  24. CalTech by sxltrex · · Score: 2, Funny
    To be noted is that he made the speech (look for the "Think Different" section) at the famous Indian Institute of Information Technology (India's foremost academic institution equivalent to MIT).


    Huh. And I always thought India's foremost academic institution was CalTech--Calcutta Technical Institute!

    :-)

  25. Great News by wahgnube · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was just reading a book written by the Indian president, Igniting Minds and came to realize how forward thinking and intellectually "fresh" (childlike.. curious, don't take stuff for granted, asking extremely basic questions...) this great man really is. This is great news, in the sense that there are people at "higher levels" who have foresight in science/technology. I hope it sets a precedent for other countries as well. In a side note, the IIIT is not a premier institution, no where near the league of the institutions equivalent of MIT here.

  26. Whoa....... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    "What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost." "

    Whoa. Electing a thinker. What a bizarre concept.

    Those whacky Indians. Let's rain some "Freedom" down on their asses.

    1. Re:Whoa....... by Vegan+Pagan · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sorry, England already did it.

  27. Re:I don't trust India. by chenGOD · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Replace India with America, and Kashmir with Iraq.

  28. Interesting for India's - and the world's - future by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 5, Interesting
    India it would appear is working incredibly hard to drag itself out of its near third world state - it has one of the most prestigious technical universities in the world (the Indian Institute of Technology, who's graduates include Vinod Khosla, the co-founder of Sun Microsystems Inc.).

    It has programmers that may not be paid as much as their US counterparts, but for this very reason are being courted heavily.

    So, you're the President of India. You're trying to make your country more money. Which will you do: churn your countries workers into Microsoft developers, or work with Open Source?

    Microsoft Advantages:
    • Major desktop monopoly.
    • Large funds to finance new infrastructure, education, etc.
    • Major business ties, especially in the United States.


    Open Source Advantages:
    • Free (as in Beer) - your students/average citizen can get ahold of it.
    • Free (as in Speech) - if your companies should ever start to compete with Windows in a major way (thereby making India more money from paid developers/consultants), you don't have to worry about some unknown factor messing them up *cough*DR-DOS*cough*.)
    • Open Source is making huge inroads into the server market. If you support Microsoft, you support Microsoft's growth, which *might* mean more money for India, but *certainly* means more money to Microsoft than India would get. Supporting Open Source and being the best at it guaruntees more money to India in the long haul.
    • Piracy - my understanding is that piracy is pretty much a problem in nearly every Asian/Middle Eastern country, including India. If you support Open Source now (which is pretty much pirate proof), you can actually cut down on piracy in the long term. (You can't steal what is free - which means you have money to spend on something else.) If India should develop major anti-piracy laws in the future, having much of your software being Open Source cuts down on all the nasty legal issues.
    • Decrease business overhead. Open Source software typically runs on cheaper components, so Indian businesses that use that can save money on hardware (and software, natch) with Open Source, which means more money to give to programmers/company bottom line. More money in the business sector means more money in citizens hands, and "trickle down" theory says "Hello!".
    • Broader variety of hardware support. If an Indian company were to come out with its own computer chip technology/plants to compete with Intel, Open Source would allow that company to have a quick access to applications (granted, there would be the issue of compilation/etc, but at least there would be a common base to start with).


    I'm sure it wasn't easy for this gentleman to have to explain these ideas to Mr. Gates. I'm not saying that Mr. Gates is a bad person in general - but having a potential 1 billion market right in front of you and told that the competitor has the inside track (especially after all the charitable donations to that country) probably didn't help his appetite very much.

    The interesting thing is how this will trickle out. Why did Unix make it big in the business world? Well, students trained on it, and when they entered the Work WorldTM, they said "Hey - I can make a Unix server and solve problem XYZ." This is something that Microsoft has bet on as they help finance education - churning out the folks who "know thier stuff".

    If more companies are turning to Linux for their development/help desk needs, odds are, a student with an Open Source education will propose using Open Source tools to solve the problem.

    It's very, very interesting. There are cracks appearing in the walls, and I'm wondering how much longer the flood will be held back.

    Ah, well - at least Apple isn't going out of business this month. (And they're getting pretty good about supporting Open Source too. Hmmmmm....)
  29. when is a market saturated? by zogger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    --the whole idea of developing a market skill is so you can market yourself. Dumping millions more microsoft admins and developers out there just dilutes anyone's marketability-at THIS TIME- it would appear. Seems like you have to walk a line between today and tomorrow, and I'd slap me money on open source eventually "winning" or at least increasing global market and mindshare. There simply have to be many Indians who can see this. also the comments section on the linked story tends to support that idea by a wide margin.

    Everytime I look at it, it is obvious that microsoft feels the same way, else they wouldn't bother in offering incentives down to zero cost, giving away licenses, etc, because there would be no need if they didn't see it or believe it. They could even INCREASE prices if they didn't feel open source was a threat to their dominance. And also tending to lobby for legislative efforts that would further lock themselves in "legally" somehow, establish clear governmental and corporate ties mandated by law. It's a cliche but that is clearly-fascistic. That's a desperation move on their part, or seems so to me anyway.

    IMO, this past year hit the turning point in open source being way good enough for about any use,for any user level. Before still a little clunky and rough around the edges, but now? Naw, plenty good enough to compete with microsoft, propieatry unixes, mac osx, etc for well over 90% of any conceivable use out there, at any level. Even a complete GUI person like moi has little problems with normal non exotic applications with Linux for example. 3 years ago I took a qucik look at it and didn't even bother trying, because I knew I couldn't use it effectively. last yerar I tried again, MUCH MUCH better, the advances were probably more obvious to someone like me than for someone who had been using linux whatever for many many years, because they saw the advances in very small incremental steps. What I "saw" was a decade worth of advancement in a year or two compared to windows or like previous mac classic. That was enough for me to predict eventual open source dominance. Open source went from a V2 rocket level to a Saturn V and moon landing in a few years, so that trend and rapidity of development will continue most likely.

    And the price is sure right-on, trebly more important in areas of the planet where the average wage is dismal. The security is right-on. The customize-ability is right-on. The enthusiasm is right-on. The mindshare with younger geeks is right-on. The license choices are right-on. Hardware is getting cheaper and cheaper and now it's just a matter of time where choice of installed OS is just common, not an aberration at any retail level. Once that occurs it's a new wide open market again, and it's *this close* right now.

    And as to "jobs", any nation makes more money by trading with itself as much as possible, and keeping the money recycliing as close to home, rather than exporting it. India and china in particular are in a unique position where there populations are simply so gigantic that they can take advantage of that. Sure, expat workers sending money back home helps, but CREATING the wealth and money in the first place at home is an economic force multiplier. An example opf that was when the US primarily did this with a more diversified economy, and vertical integration of the various sub niches of the economy. Since we went to exporting our developed ability to create wealth, we've gone from the worlds largest creditor nation to worlds largest debtor nation. India would be WAY smart to not duplicate that mistake,to listen to the thinkers rather than the high level market skimmers, and to seek to get more independent, not more dependent, in IT or anything else.

  30. Re:Productivity software is the pebble by oxygene2k2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    File - Properties - Statistics - Update, "Word count"

    what was it that stops writers to adopt OpenOffice?

  31. Not my first choice of proponent by sam_handelman · · Score: 2, Informative

    The President of India is a symbolic position. The Prime Minister has the real power.

    President Kalam is clearly a brilliant man, no question. So, of course he isn't fooled by Microsoft FUD, and he's a security minded hindu nationalist, so naturally he favors open source, which is more secure, and more independent of US influence.

    Before he was President, he was the chief scientific advisor to the government for many years (decades, I believe.) He's been a major proponent of high tech military Indian Nationalism; he was the candidate of the hindu nationalist party, the right wing nuts who won't prosecute people for butchering muslims. He's been a major proponent of nuclear proliferation on the subcontinent, as well; he actually designed the missiles that would deliver an Indian nuke.

    I wouldn't want Oppenheimer to be President, either:

    "Dreams float on an impatient wind, A wind that wants to create a new order. An order of strength and thundering of fire." -- from a poem written by Dr A.P.J. Abdul Kalam

    How charmingly Vedic! The thunder and fire theme is reminiscent to some of history's best known rightist demagogues.

    A little bio of the man, from a supporter.

    So, okay, he's one of us (one of us! one of us!) On the other hand, so is Ted Kaczynski, and I'm sure he favors Linux, too. These are endorsements I could live without.

    --
    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
  32. Microsoft Revenues Currently/Recenly 60% Overseas by SilentMajority · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Given that the MAJORITY of Microsoft's revenues come from overseas, this type of news along with the recent one about Munich Germany switching to Linux is significant.

  33. OT wanderings by Trevalyx · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You must remember that you are speaking with an American. In their eyes, if you don't live in the "Good Ol' US of A" then you are living in a gutter and probably a terrorist.


    Oh, come on now, no need to be vicious. Certainly, as Americans we tend to be somewhat elitist, ethnocentric, and globally unaware, but don't confuse the thoughts of the most audible with the thoughts of the less vocal majority.. Most Americans don't think that just because someone is a foreigner that they are a terrorist, up to no good, or are a drag on the economy. Certainly, they have some fear of people of middle-Eastern descent, but you can't really begrudge them that, due to the current state of things. It isn't to say that we should be afraid, but if you get bitten by your neighbor's dog, you're bound to be a bit wary of your neighbor and dogs in general for a while, especially if you see them regularly going after each-other's throats. Not to go on a diatribe here, and I certainly thinkg Americans could stand to be a bit more globally concious, but the time will come when we don't have a choice, and that statement up there just comes across as being bitter. Your posting history doesn't indicate you as being trollish or having a particular appetite for flamebait, so I'll assume you're just having a bad day.. Hope that improves for you.
  34. What a hoot by IPFreely · · Score: 2, Insightful

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, @10:06AM (#6067180)
    Moderators: Mod Parent Post As A Troll please

    Defending America abroad "the American Way", speaking from anonymity, calling for oppression.

    --
    There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
  35. Indiafarming by gosand · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Working on OSS while a great thing is not going to bring them the same potential monitary gains as working for a big name software company. It would be great for a country the population of India to listen and follow their leaders urging, but I seriously doubt in a country where many are trying to break free of poverty that they will work for next to nothing on OSS.

    Hmm, seems to me that the Indian tech firms are able to make it just fine by getting programming jobs from ... the US.

    I know a lot of programmers kind of resent this, but it isn't just about them being able to program cheaper. Most of these programming shops in India are at CMM level 3 or higher. That means a lot to big compaines. Not only is it cheaper, but these places put out good, reliable software with good documentation (code, results, requirements, design, etc). That stuff matters. I am currently on a team at my company that is trying to get processes in place to get us to CMM level 2. It is hard. People don't like following processes, don't like documenting what they do, they don't like being held accountable for their work. Some of the good companies in India are at CMM level 5, which is no small feat.

    So instead of people bitching about India, and how they are stealing our jobs, and how they are just clawing their way out of poverty, maybe we should ask WHY they are able to achieve these things when most companies in the US are not. It kind of reminds me of the Japanese car scare, where people would only "buy American" even though American cars completely sucked. The cheaper, more reliable Japanese cars of the late 70's/early 80's sure woke up the US car industry. Maybe it is time the US softare market woke up.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:Indiafarming by gosand · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That would be all well and good, if the standards were worth a damn. But they are not.

      CMM is no panacea. It is an indicator of how mature your software development process is - nothing more. If all else is equal, the CMM certified shop will win out. But there is also that killer factor of price. Combine lower price with mature development process, and it is tough to beat.

      All of your other concerns are valid concerns, but only one of them can be addressed in this context:
      Is it bug free? (meaning does all the specified functionality work as desired?)

      While having a mature process doesn't guarantee it is bug free, it can lend a little credibility to the fact. I was going to say that this is a totally unrelated thing, but by proving that you have a solid process in place, you are helping to stomp out bugs earlier in the process. No, it won't eliminate them all, but it isn't intended to.

      The other things you mention are valid concerns, but aren't in the context of process. The only thing that having a strong process in place will do is make sure that you can systematically find out some of these issues before it is too late, and you can gather stats to *improve* your process to catch the things that slip through. If you just go about things willy-nilly, you are just fumbling around in the dark. Sometimes that works, most of the time it doesn't. Again, CMM certification isn't the be-all-end-all answer, but it is more than a lot of places have.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  36. I don't trust USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Amerika should abandon nuclear weapons.

    Amerika should stop tolerating pograms against minorities (DMCA).

    Amerika should address their grievous repression
    of "lower castes" ("Niggers", amerikan natives).

    Amerika should listen to the UN.

    Maybe if they addressed these, we could take
    your comment seriously.

  37. Kalam is a MUSLIM ! by xzap · · Score: 2, Informative

    which, as most people know, is different from HINDU. Hedoesnt belong to the BJP either...though his candidature was forwarded by the BJP. And he is no more for high tech military Indian Nationalism than Bush is for high tech military US Nationalism.

  38. Fix your political system first by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    India's not a poor country, it's just a really, really corrupt one.

    It's a tough choice, I know, between the ideologically bankrupt and wholly corrupt Congress party and the racists in the BJP and their above-the-law backers like Thackarey and his thugs.

    When you guys get that sorted even reasonably well, we'll be willing to listen to criticism from you.

    1. Re:Fix your political system first by JDevers · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm a citizen of the US and I think our system of government is completely corrupt, I listen to other people's complaints about our government (I am a graduate student at a very culturally diverse university, so I know a LOT of people who are in the states only for an education) and generally agree.

      What amazes me most is that people from other countries see the media representation of this country and assume EVERYONE feels that way. While it may be the majority attitude in some places, it isn't the only attitude or even a very dominate one. Most of the people in this country that don't listen to criticism about our government are the same who's life ambition is to be on the Jerry Springer show. In other words, pretty much the bottom 5%, but also sometimes the most vocal 5%.

    2. Re:Fix your political system first by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Whatever the political problems the US has they are miniscule in comparison to the problems in India.

      As an example, the Indian parliament rejected a measure requiring MPs to disclose criminal history; they almost passed a disclosure requirement for "serious" crimes like robbery, rape, homicide, but then rejected that too!

      The BJP is racist and is openly supported by Hindu nationalists that publicly incite riot and have been responsible for hundreds of deaths of Muslims.

      Taking criticism of the US political system from Indians is like taking tolerance classes from the Nazi party. If you can't clean your own house, what gives you the moral authority to criticize the American political system? Some supernational sense of poltical correctness?

      Give me a break.

    3. Re:Fix your political system first by maxpublic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you can't clean your own house, what gives you the moral authority to criticize the American political system?

      As an American I guess I could respond to this with 'the First Amendment', but then you'd probably claim that basic rights like 'freedom of speech' only apply to U.S. citizens.

      And really - talk about cleaning your own house. My government started a war over WMD and terrorism, against a nation which has no WMD and wasn't even remotely involved in 9/11, simply to steal that country's oil while proving that Shrub has a bigger dick than Saddam. You want to talk corrupt? Take a look at who's been awarded the multi-billion 'rebuilding' contracts and control over the oil - note how they're directly connected to both Shrub and mini-Shrub.

      I'd say corruption is alive and well here in America, and reaches right up to the top levels of government. What are you going to do now? Claim that *I* don't have the 'moral authority' to criticize the government either?

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  39. Giving your software away hardly means bankruptcy by tjwhaynes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Where I disagree with you is on piracy. I think the operating system should be free, programming languages should be free and that's it. The point of a free operating system is to foster a competitive environment. Companies still need assurances that they can write software without giving it away.

    So you think that all software developed, excepting OS-level stuff, should be proprietary? That seems a little harsh. Would you really like to remove the right of people to give their work away? A vast collection of software is available today because people have chosen to work on something in their spare time and distribute it, mostly because it worked for them and someone else might benefit as well.

    And is the point of a free operating system to foster a competitive environment? I view it as a side effect not the reason.

    Even if it comes to a point where you can't make money writing software, people are always going to want someone/some company to help them use it, implement it or merely document it. There will always be opportunities for making money with software. You just might find selling it tough. I don't think that hurts the software industry one iota - people will end up paying for the most competitive system implemented in the most effective and useful fashion. Companies who build the expertise to make such installations will be the ones who will stand to make the most money in such an economy. Finally we might see a software economy where the talents and knowledge of the companies employees are the real financial capital rather than the number of patents you hold.

    Cheers,
    Toby Haynes

    --
    Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
  40. I don't trust the US by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Expose on US fascism. They may not be Muslim fanatics, but they are religious fanatics.

    The US should abandon nuclear weapons and ICBMs.
    The US should stop tolerating pograms (sic) against minorities.
    The US should address their grievous repression of "lower castes" (ie, people from poorer backgrounds).
    The US should respect the Geneva Convention and other human rights in Camp X-Ray, as specified by most of the world.

    Maybe if they addressed these, we could take US policy seriously.

    It works both ways doesn't it?

    Seriously, before you start deciding which governments around the world are OK and which aren't, perhaps you should pay more attention to your own goverment and your own society.

    If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd be appalled at how their vision of a free and egalitarian society has been corrupted.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  41. Can't afford MS anyway by nomadicGeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nothing earth shattering here. Free software is a necessity in such a poor country. The cost of Windows XP and a copy of Office XP would wipe out about one third of the average person's annual income.

    From the CIA World Factbook 2002 edition...

    India:
    GDP per capita: $2,540
    Population below poverty line: 25%
    Unemployment rate: 8.8%
    Internet service providers: 43
    Internet users: 7 million

    True that there are over a billion people in India but the vast majority are involved in agriculture, are uneducated, and most likely will never be able to afford a computer. Its not like this is a major blow to MS.

    From a government standpoint, India is much better off using free software and saving money for public health and other more pressing issues.

  42. Re:equivalent to MIT? by caesar79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would argue that the entrant to any of the IIT's is TECHNICALLY much more qualified than 99% of the entrants I've seen in the US. To get into the IIT's, you need to clear what is known as the Joint Entrance Examination (JEE). The examination is conducted all over India. An estimated 250000 students take the exam yearly with about an estimated 2500 getting through to the 6 campuses of IIT's. The entrance exam is grilling. It encompasses three 3-hr exams in maths, physics and chemistry. The syllabus of these exams is roughly equivalent to that of a 3-year bachelor course in science (BSc). So its like you need to be about 3 years ahead of your grade to get through. With the increasing number of applicants, the exam has been made into a two stage exam - a three hr screening multiple choice exam followed by the aforementioned three 3-hr exams. You have to clear both!! Typically students start preparing for the JEE exams atleast 2 years before they give it. School work is neglected as the syllabus for the JEE is way more advanced than the normal school. The JEE is not a joke. It is one of the toughest exams to get through. Take this as an example - two senior year students came up witha polynomial time algorithm for Primality testing.

  43. No Better by mobileskimo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    WE designed and DEPLOYED the first nukes on Japan. WE still pump the most funds into designing NEW ways to kill people. How are we any better? How are we in a position to criticize someone else?

    --
    "Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
    1. Re:No Better by kylef · · Score: 2, Insightful
      WE still pump the most funds into designing NEW ways to kill people. How are we any better?

      The US is better because these new ways to kill people are better ways to kill people, ways that inflict less "collateral" damage than at any time in the history of the world. GPS guidance, terrain contour mapping, infrared signature targeting: all of these are funded because they make weapons more lethal to those being targeted, not innocent bystanders. And in some cases, these new weapons don't even kill people! (Check out the U.S. Army's new various non-lethal weapons technology here.)

      No matter what you say, improving weapons is a noble goal, because force is still regrettably necessary to maintain some semblance of order and security in this world, and crude force is becoming altogether intolerable now that media attention makes even small conflicts front-page news around the globe. New weapons must be more precise than ever before, and must do their jobs more reliably and thoroughly than ever before.

      Investing money into gross tonnage nuclear bombs with dirty radioactive residue and crude delivery vehicles is the OPPOSITE of the US plan. Attempts by non-superpower countries to create strategic nuclear weapons are completely illogical on several levels. Most importantly, it shows that such countries do not understand the prerequisite for strategic deterrence and its stabilizing corollary, Mutually Assured Destruction: only balanced nuclear arsenals are MAD-deterred. The crude nuclear weapons under construction throughout the world today are not strategic in nature (yet), because they lack delivery vehicles. The only thing they have succeeded to accomplish is destabilizing the world's nuclear balance, and creating incentive for the world's remaining superpower to actually deploy a missile shield system!

      If you want to "win" in today's world, win with your economy, not strategic weapons. Don't waste your time and national resources developing weapons that won't be used and have no strategic deterrence value. President Kalam seems to understand this now, which is why I think he is advocating technology education and has great concern for students in India. I hope his message is heeded.

  44. A little background on Abdul Kalam by jazuki · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A P J Abdul Kalam led the nuclear weapons program in India prior to being tapped to be titular head of state as President. (Note that the President of India is largely a ceremonial post, like the Queen of England. However, it does offer a bit more of a bully pulpit. As in England, the head of government is the Prime Minister.)

    When India tested its first nuclear weapons (both fission and fusion), Abdul Kalam crowed with pride about how it was an indigenous effort. And this was largely true: They figured out, based on published materials, and with some Russian help and some reverse-engineering, how to build the facilities to generate weapons-grade uranium and plutonium and make heavy water, and constructed the facilities themselves, the latter with very little outside help. This was because they didn't want to be dependent on anyone else for such a critical national security matter.

    It's about India being master of her own destiny.

    So, it must really grate on Abdul Kalam that so much of software developmetn work in India is focussed on proprietary, and externally controlled, technologies. For him, the OSS model offers a perfect way out, sharing with the rest of the world, but leaving no chance that the rug can be pulled away without India's acceptance.

    That said, all he has is the bully pulpit. Hopefully, he will be able to get some of the relevant people, whether in the universities or in government, to listen and take the issue seriously.

  45. Some facts about our President by mritunjai · · Score: 5, Informative

    1. Indian president is not elected directly, but indirectly by elected representatives.

    2. Current president Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam is an exception. While previous presidents were just symbolic heads as dictated by constitution, Dr Kalam has actually taken steps to bridge the communication gaps, meeting publically and raising his opinions on matters... to much discomfort of the dirty politicians.

    3. Dr. Kalam meets hundreds of school children daily. His vision is to bring about awareness in current generation and imbibe a scientic vision in them. He encourages them to question the things around them.

    4. Dr. Kalam has been very supportive of humanitarian work. His team developed an ultra-light carbon composite for heat shields of ICBM Agni missile. Working with a doctor, Dr Kalam made available that material for making artificial limbs of physically challanged children. An artifical leg for children which used to weigh 3.5 KG (7 pounds) now weights 300 grams (less than 1 pound). Dr Kalam lists this achievement in his 3 life time achievements above all nuclear and missile stuff !!

    5. He has written two books which are one of its kind. You have to read them to believe them!

    --
    - mritunjai
  46. Re:Slashdot moderators have combined IQ of 300 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    Excuse me, but can someone explain how the parent post is modded 5 Funny?
    Because "well, it's not rocket science" or "he's no rocket scientist" are well-known phrases meaning "it's not hard at all" and "he's thick" respectively. So when you look for proofs of someone's intelligence, to actually be able to say "he's a rocket scientist" is funny, because it's taking a tired cliche literally and then reversing it. It's like the joke: the "For Dummies..." series released "Neuropathology For Dummies", the only title in the series that couldn't claim "at least it's not brain surgery".
  47. Open Source and ethics... by towatatalko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What is "earth shattering" about it is that indeed it is "earth shattering". It's not that India is one of the poorest countries in the world that matters here, but the brainpower that is inherent in their ability to first adopt then innovate with far less cost to software development. The reason Gates went there was that he recognized it as a potential money saving and money making opportunity as well as doing "charitable" PR with some millions of $.

    In addition, 25% software engineers at MS are Indian. Balngalore area is a huge software and computer-engineering center now that can compare to Silicon Valley, etc. But the reason their Prez spoke about importance of OSS is that he recognized superior ethics in OSS development as compared to proprietary model. So, when India moves in OSS direction there's a model country that can be copied elsewhere. Since ideas from India have considerable intellectual impact on the younger generation in the West since around the 60ies it is in that tradition that OSS can become more widespread than it is now.

    By the way "superior ethics" of OSS is like "karma yoga", or selfless service that one does for the sake of others without expecting a reward or recognition, even though such reward may come anyway, but then you don't dwell on it in your mind, etc. So, OSS is naturally an ally with Indian traditional thinking and so in that regard there's coherent purpose for both.

    --

    IP was invented for the sake of lawsuits.
  48. Re:Slashdot moderators have combined IQ of 300 by rawdot · · Score: 2, Informative

    Time to moderate the moderators, surely!

    As seen on http://slashdot.org/: Have you Meta Moderated recently?

  49. It doesn't follow by Gerry+Gleason · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Living in a country with corrupt politics doesn't disqualify someone from commenting on corruption wherever and whenever they see it. You speak as if rooting out corruption was as simple as taking a stand against it as an individual. Your Nazi party analogy is less than worthless as you are equating an entire nation with a sub-group that self-selects for intolerance. Nazis are intolerant because this is their philosophy and they encourage all members to be this way is in no way equivalent to: India is corrupt because all Indians are corrupt. No, the Indian government may be corrupt, but that in no way suggests that all or even most Indians are corrupt. Even the idea that their government is more corrupt than the U.S. is dubious, therefore your entire comment has no point.

    Yes, activism must start at home, but there is no reason not to share insights and approaches globally. Often it is easier to sort out the issues from an alien perspective, just as we often have more clarity about our friend's problem than our own.

    Remotely connecting this to the topic, I claim that the widespread adoption of the OSS development model can only be a positive example in terms of transparency and openness. Both of these are very good habits for a society trying to reduce the impact and scope of corruption.

  50. Contrarily: (was Re: true wisdom) by lysium · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Perhaps in the long view, Gandhi would approve of nuclear weapons because they are an ultimate deterrent. Granted, this might change if the USA goes ahead with tactical nuclear weapons, but as of yet nuclear weapons have created more indirect peace than indirect violence.

    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  51. Stand up and be counted, you hypocritical coward by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are so fucking stupid it is scary ..
    According to you ,one simply cannot judge anything or anyone.
    If you don't fucking see a difference between some of the regimes out there and US then you are fucking sick and need to get out more.
    Seriously.


    There's a reason why you and the original poster have posted as Anonymous Cowards. It's because you are cowards, because you don't have the guts to stand up and say "this is me, this is my opinion, this is what I truly believe in".

    And, please, try and get it right. I'm not saying that you can't judge others. I'm saying that if you're going to judge others then you should be prepared to be judged yourself.

    The difference between the Indian "regime" and the US? Well, for starters, India hasn't invaded another country under the pretence of eliminating Weapons of Mass Destruction, only to turn around after the invasion and say that finding those WMDs (if they truly exist) isn't that important after all.

    It amazes me when people can't see hypocrisy when it's staring them in the face every fucking day.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  52. I feel bad now... by morgajel · · Score: 2, Funny

    The President of India is advocating opensource.

    I don't even think our president knows what opensource is.
    You ask Bush what he thinks about opensource and I'm sure he'll go into a story of why they're bad and how he got opensource once from kissing a farm animal.

    In all seriousness, I think this is a very good thing. Last time I checked, India had a larger population than wyoming. If their tech school starts churning out linux guys, their country will eventually turn to linux, and there will be much rejoicing

    that would make me happy.

    --
    Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
  53. Not suprising & not significant by jordandeamattson · · Score: 3, Interesting


    First, I don't find this speech all that surprising. India since Gandhi and his spinning wheel has had a focus on independnce as a people and a country. Nehru - first prime minister of India - and others pushed for the formation of IIT to help India grow their own crop of engineering professionals. In this they have been extremely successful, but the unexpected consequence is that that engineering talent has been exported to other countries. And well it should, for it is top-notch (here I speak as someone who has two IIT grads in my chain-of-command and work closely with a passel of them and am hiring three to work for me in India).



    On the other hand, this speech is not all that significant. Dr Kalam's influence is extremely limited. Remember that in India the president is the head of the state, with little - if any - power or authority. This speech is roughly equivalent to Queen Elizabeth coming out in favor of OSS. Would it make the news? Yes. Would it influence British business or political decisions in a significant way? Probably not. The equivalent in power and authority to the US President in India is the Prime Minister.



    Dr Kalam hold the larger ceremonial position of president because of his work as the "rocket man". He is the person that gave India ballistic missiles and his naming to this position by the BJP (the leading, Hindu Nationalist party that runs the current Indian goverment) was at the point where tensions were at their highest with Pakistian last year. It is widely thought it was to send a message to Pakistian that India was serious about Kashmiar and would not back-down.



    Bottom line, I don't think that IIT grads will be focusing their energies on OSS work. It is their desire to land a job with a Microsoft, Adobe, InfoSys, Tata Consulting Group, or Wipo. These companies are focuing on building and delivering non-OSS software.

  54. Re:Ahh... by Chakde+Phate! · · Score: 2, Informative

    Or not. Many Indians, particularly those who have been well educated, speak and write better English than 'native' speakers (i.e. British and Americans) if you're talking about spelling and grammar. What Westerners often find it hard to understand is the accent.

    If that's your problem, it's hardly exclusive to Indians; have you ever tried talking to someone from Glasgow?