TiVo To Sell Customer Data

camusflage writes "Yahoo has a story that details TiVo's plans to sell customer data to advertisers and broadcasters. While individuals will be anonymous, data will be made available in aggregate form, including ZIP code. The San Jose Mercury News has additional coverage on the news."

Comments

Good for them...

[GreenJeepMan]

No one individuals personal privacy has been violated. So what is the big deal? Hopefully if they can sustain enough income from this, they can drop their monthly fees.

Re:Good for them...

[Ron Harwood]

So they can drop their monthly fees???

Last time I checked - they were a 'for profit' business... monthly fees + selling of data = more profit ~= happier shareholders.

Re:Good for them...

[drinkypoo]

Maybe you should just hope that they get enough income from this to stay in business. :P

Re:Good for them...

[homer_ca]

It all depends on where and when the info is aggregated. If they have a raw database WITH the personally identifying information, that would be very dangerous simply because it exists. Any present promises of only using it in aggregate won't be worth the bits they're printed on in a bankruptcy proceeding.

Re:Good for them...

[PhilHibbs]

Yes, but maybe dropped fees = more customers = more profit.

Demographics are not an invasion of privacy.

[blair1q]

Unless you own your own zip-code (Ted Turner) this does not affect your "rights" in any way.

Re:Demographics are not an invasion of privacy.

[M.C. Hampster]

True, maybe I over-generalized in saying that ZIP+4 resolves to a house - it does not ALWAYS resolve to a house, but it frequently DOES.

This one statement almost completely sums up most of what is wrong with the mentality of Slashdot. You have one experience where ZIP+4 resolves to your house and your house only, so you generalize it to mean that it does for everyone. When people point out that it does not for everyone, you retract your statement, only to replace it by another one in which you no data. If you see some of the other posts here, linking to the USPS web site, you will see that for most people, it does not link to a particular house.

Key word: aggregate

[pmz]

Unless there's a ZIP code in Wyoming with only one person...I don't see any rights being trampled, here.

Re:Key word: aggregate

[realdpk]

Doesn't it bode well that they've said they'd do something like this since oh, day one? That is, the selling of aggregate data?

They've been very open with us on this issue. They've given no reason not to trust them.

Re:Key word: aggregate

[Gunzour]

TiVo isn;'t big enough tp influence the life or death of a show.

I would argue that it is. With 700,000 households, it is 350 times larger than the highly influential Nielsen Media Research sample size. (See http://www.nielsenmedia.com/FAQ/)

Not a problem

[Zirnike]

"in aggregate form"

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Aggregate data is fine, for the most part (obviously, if your consumer base is 5 people, there might be an issue), but for this, I don't see the problem. And I'm a serious privacy advocate...

Nothing to see... Move along.

[TedTschopp]

To me this doesn't seem like a big deal. This type of information is a marketing pleb's dream. And it looks like information about you personally would not be viewable. Aggregate is the way we as privacy experts should be pushing as a compromise. This is no big deal. And as someone who has seen how this aggregate data is used with GIS software. Again, I say... Nothing to see, move along. Ted Tschopp

Re:I wish I could say I was surprised....

[realdpk]

How would TiVo know you make between 40,000 and 80,000 a year?

TiVo knows that I make more than $155.88/year, but I haven't given them an indication of how much more.

And yes, there's an opt out feature in the TiVo, so you can have your viewing statistics removed from your zip code. Big win for privacy. ;) Just don't complain when your local station uses the info and decides to cancel your favorite three-thumbs-up show. ;)

And again

[psychophil.com]

This came up during the superbowl commercial rating. Tivo released info saying which superbowl commercials its viewers watched most.

Again I say, Tivo selling the viewing info is a GOOD THING. I am tired of shows I like getting cancelled for lack of Neilson ratings. I've never been nor have I even known a Neilson family. I don't like the fact that someone else is deciding what's good TV and what should be cancelled.

This will broaden the base of input for TV ratings. Another plus, Tivo owners tend to be geekish. This will most likely help the rating and staying power of shows that geeks watch (sci-fi to be specific). Maybe we finally have a fighting chance against inane 30 minute sitcoms and 'reality' TV.

Focused Advertising

[mjmalone]

My brother works for TiVo, and they have been planning to do this from the getgo. The idea is that they will be able to target advertising to different customer groups. For example, Ford might buy a 30 second ad spot, on a TV owned by a single man, 25 years old, might display an ad for a Ford Mustang while a TV owned by a family of 5 might show an ad for a minivan. This doesnt seem like a big deal to me, in fact I kind of like the fact that I wont have to sit through as many ads for crap I really am not interested in... I can finally watch the beer and sports car commercials I love so much.

Re:I wish I could say I was surprised....

[jgerry]

So they're going to sell this information to other people, but I'd like to see it for myself, too.

I'm sure lots of us would like to see that data, but if they made it available to us for free, that would kinda negate the possibility of them SELLING the data for $$$, you know? Contact Tivo and I'm sure they'll get together a quote for you and you could purchase the data too.

Is there an opt-out feature?

Yes, you can call Tivo and opt-out, should you choose. It's quick and hassle free, I know lots of other Tivo owners who have done that.

Personally, I haven't opted out. I've seen the data that is sent to Tivo, it can't be tracked to me individually, and I'd like Tivo to be able to make a buck so they don't go out of business.

Really folks, this isn't a paranoid, tinfoil hat issue. It's just business, and Tivo's model seems far more ethical than most. I'm more than happy to help them out. It doesn't cost me anything.

...may I have another?

[presearch]

You buy a TiVo box for a few hundred, pay a few hundred
more for the subscription that doesn't really pay
for content, just indexing and the privilege of them
not disabling the box that you paid for. All of this in
order to watch commercial-filled television that you
are also paying your sat or cable company even more
money for, all tied up in a DRM wrapper.

Now, they are collecting your stats, your private life
(as collected on the box you paid for, perhaps continually),
and selling it. And people here think it's great because
(at least today) it's not directly tied to your name.

Boy, that TV must be really great stuff.

Re:...may I have another?

[Wateshay]

I know you're just trying to be funny, but that's really not accurate:

1) If you fail to subscribe to the TiVo service, they don't in any way shape or form disable your box. Of course, you don't have access to the subscription information, or software updates, which are what the service pays for, and which are in my personal opinion well worth the cost of the service.

2) You've apparently never used a TiVo. Most TiVo users rarely ever watch commercials. They fast forward through them because they're watching things that have been previously recorded.

3) The TiVo doesn't have any DRM. It's on-disk data format is undocumented, but if you look online you can find software that has figured out how to extract it. There is, however, no encryption, and nothing that keeps you from duping something on your TiVo off onto a VCR tape (in fact the TiVo has some features that make that process easier).

4) From the beginning, TiVo has always reserved the right to sell aggregate data, and has always promised to protect individual data. Nothing has changed. It is also unlikely that anything will change, because individual data is next to worthless. No one cares whether or not you watch American Idol. They only care what percentage of 18-30 year olds watch American Idol. The bad PR that TiVo would receive would never be worth the value of selling individual data.

Who doesn't sell data ?

[tmark]

OSDN is already using your data for their own benefit:

OSDN may use accumulated aggregate data for several purposes including, but not limited to, marketing analysis, evaluation of OSDN's services, and business planning. .

There is no prohibition against selling it to other parties. So why the cry of wolf ? I'm pretty sure that if someone found aggregate Slashdot information useful, OSDN would be - or is - selling it. And I don't care. Is it a violation of my privacy if some marketing firm studies aggregate customer behavior in a store and discovers that the majority of customers turn right when they enter ? I don't think it is, and that sort of aggregate research is happening all the time.

Ain't no thing....

[billmaly]

1. I record shows for the kids and History/Discovery channel stuff for myself. A few network shows here and there, and once in awhile, a little T&A off the cable channels. Naughty, but not really embarassing. If this gets "reported" I can live with it. However, it's broken down by zip code, so I don't have many concerns. Plus, if it shows that I really like well thought out, witty commercials (there are some out there), basically advertainment and not mindless ads, and this creates better advertainment for me, is this not a good thing?

2. TiVo could become more relevant that Neilsen data. Imagine, they can break down for networks what was recorded vs. what was actually watched, when it was watched, and what commercials were watched while viewing. Combine this with the fact (here's where TiVo shareholder's laugh with glee) that I will PAY THEM to LET THEM track this data, and be happy to do so, it's a win win for the company and the consumer.

TiVo truly does put one in control of their viewing. If they want to gather a little data, virtually anonymously, fine by me.

Re:Frankly, I'm shocked

[FattMattP]

If you replaced the word "Tivo" with "Microsoft," I swear there would be a posse forming in some thread on this comments page as we speak to go down to their corporate HQ and burn every copy of XP they received with their PCs.

I'm sure they would. Microsoft has a track record of deception and underhandedness. They've shown time and again that they will use any means, even illegal ones, to further their own goals, irregardless of the consequences. They even have several legal rulings against them that prove it. Consequently the people here on Slashdot have a hair trigger when it comes to Microsoft.

Tivo, on the other hand, has been very open and honest about their business and their hardware. They've never lied or attempted to be dishonest in any way. They've always been respectful of their cusotmers and made a good-faith effort to communicate with them. Also, they've respected the hacker community and the hacker community has respected them in turn. This has brought about a lot of great enhancements for the series one unit and the company has been good about listenting to their customers and what they want.

Tivo has stated since day one that they collect informtation, detailed what information they collect, and have provided a way to opt out. They've also stated that they would probably sell the information at some later point. People have verified that Tivo is telling the truth in regards to what information they collect and send back to their servers.

Tivo has earned most customers respect whereas Microsoft seems almost proud that they have not.

Selling info? Good idea!

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Taking the devil's side on this:

"Aggregate" data by 5-digit zip code is not enough to personally identify you. It's like watching log-ins by IP address. You get liumped with everybody else who was watching Smallville or Buffy reruns.

Marketing is ESSENTIAL to support broadcast TV as we know it. Someone has to pay for all those production costs, and right now it is the advertisers. I like it that way. TIVO and other time-shifting technologies scare advertisers and TV producers because they see costs rising and revenues dwindling.

Companies waste a lot of money on advertising because they don't know what commercials "work" (or are at least watched). If they could get fast feedback, maybe the really stupid and pointless commercials would go away faster. If they could get better at spotting what ads are getting viewed/skipped on what shows, maybe the shows wouldn't go away for lack of advertisers.