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TiVo To Sell Customer Data
camusflage writes "Yahoo has a story that details TiVo's plans to sell customer data to advertisers and broadcasters. While individuals will be anonymous, data will be made available in aggregate form, including ZIP code. The San Jose Mercury News has additional coverage on the news."
No one individuals personal privacy has been violated. So what is the big deal? Hopefully if they can sustain enough income from this, they can drop their monthly fees.
Unless you own your own zip-code (Ted Turner) this does not affect your "rights" in any way.
Unless there's a ZIP code in Wyoming with only one person...I don't see any rights being trampled, here.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Aggregate data is fine, for the most part (obviously, if your consumer base is 5 people, there might be an issue), but for this, I don't see the problem. And I'm a serious privacy advocate...
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
To me this doesn't seem like a big deal. This type of information is a marketing pleb's dream. And it looks like information about you personally would not be viewable. Aggregate is the way we as privacy experts should be pushing as a compromise. This is no big deal. And as someone who has seen how this aggregate data is used with GIS software. Again, I say... Nothing to see, move along. Ted Tschopp
Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
Finally they might give me the pr0n-commercials and ads I've been waiting for!
Seems like this has been going on since the beginning
__________
Love conquers all... except CANCER
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. So they're going to sell this information to other people, but I'd like to see it for myself, too. I'd like to know just what they're tracking and how the reports look for the ad agencies buying this stuff.
I wonder if TiVo includes any data like "we know that such-and-such in this zip code makes between 40,000-80,000 a year and has 2.3 kids, etc."
Is there an opt-out feature? Can I keep the anonymous data from getting to TiVo the first place (apart from unplugging the unit)?
You can Opt-Out of the Marketing data collection by calling Customer Care (877-For-TiVo)
Mike
news flash, einstein:
NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR PARTICULAR VIEWING HABITS.
take off your tin-foil hat now.
BilldaCat
I hope the networks (in addition to the advertisers which will of course snap it up... thank god for keyword 'aggregate') will look at this data as well. I have always thought that I effectively have a Nielson box sitting under my TV, so why shouldn't they take advantage of it? Maybe Firefly would still be on the air with statistics from our Tivo boxes...
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
Then opt-out - Tivo has always been giving an option to do so. This entire story is a non-issue.
Now mass marketers will think I'm Gay.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Imagine if you could change the information sent to Tivo so the advertisers thought young teenagers watched "The 700 Club" and retired senior citizens watched MTV. Soon Depends undergarments will advertise during TRL and Trojan condoms will be blasting its ads to conservative republicans. That would be dope.
Am I the only one who thinks that the extreme "privacy" fringe is doing a lot to discredit legitimate privacy concerns.
I care if Tivo sells a list of the programs to watch to a local advertiser who will then call me on the phone, bang on my door, or spam me with "special offers just for me." Tivo, in that case, is attempting to act as a middleman in setting up a business relationship that I have no interest in.
I do not care if Tivo sells data about how many people in California, or even my ZIP code, watched Buffy last night.
Now, there are issues with privacy policies; if Tivo has said that they wouldn't do this and then have, they've lied to their customers, and even the most paranoid privacy freak has a right to expect companies to live up their word.
But really, there are enough *very* significant privacy issues today that relate to *government* spying on *individuals* with no probably cause, warrant, etc.
I'm not at all sure that groups, such as "everyone who lives in my ZIP code" are, or should be, entitled to the same level of privacy protection that individuals deserve.
I mean, if I go down to the street corner and count how many people push the "push to cross" button and then sell that data to the people who make "push to cross" buttons, am I somehow violating peoples' privacy? If I do it in 10 cities? 100? Does it matter if I'm incorporated and have employees or not?
I'm willing to hear the other side, and I certainly subscribe to the slippery-slope argument, but for the most part I think this kind of corporate aggregation of data is at most a very minor concern in a world filled with huge privacy issues.
Cheers
-b
Heck, less than that. Web server -statistics-, post amalgamating and tabulating.
;)
So they can tell that three thousand people in your zip code watched American Idol... they're not going to be able to conclusively proove *you* have no taste.
I want the ad moguls and networks to know what I watch, because they might just notice that my viewing habits, like those of many people, are nothing like what they believe them to be.
I don't watch ads. Period. I watch a few good shows, and I ignore the rest.
On a larger scale, my dream would be for the entire system of free-but-with-forced-ad-watching television to fall to pieces. Sure, it might mean the end of television as mass-media, but it would also force a lot of mouth-breathers to do something other than watch TV every night.
Of course, I'm pretty tired right now, so make what you will of the preceding. ^_~
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
Again I say, Tivo selling the viewing info is a GOOD THING. I am tired of shows I like getting cancelled for lack of Neilson ratings. I've never been nor have I even known a Neilson family. I don't like the fact that someone else is deciding what's good TV and what should be cancelled.
This will broaden the base of input for TV ratings. Another plus, Tivo owners tend to be geekish. This will most likely help the rating and staying power of shows that geeks watch (sci-fi to be specific). Maybe we finally have a fighting chance against inane 30 minute sitcoms and 'reality' TV.
My brother works for TiVo, and they have been planning to do this from the getgo. The idea is that they will be able to target advertising to different customer groups. For example, Ford might buy a 30 second ad spot, on a TV owned by a single man, 25 years old, might display an ad for a Ford Mustang while a TV owned by a family of 5 might show an ad for a minivan. This doesnt seem like a big deal to me, in fact I kind of like the fact that I wont have to sit through as many ads for crap I really am not interested in... I can finally watch the beer and sports car commercials I love so much.
Visualize the world of wine
HIPAA laws even allow for this. I work in long term care and we group data by regions. We just remove all identifiable data.
This allows us to do trending and catch things that would otherwise be impossible.
Trending is good when it's aggregate data. When the book police come to your door it's bad.
Read the privacy policy. It's been around since TiVo was founded, and nothing in that time has changed.
TiVo has been selling your demographic data for years. Superbowl advertisers bought information from TiVo to see which Brittney Spears commercial got the most replay and in which kinds of households.
This has absolutely nothing to do with an infrigement of rights, as it all strictly adheres to an agreement between customer and provider made fully clear at the time of purchase.
To offset the costs of building and maintaining a complicated system that provides an excellent service to consumers they sell information on their demographics. Anyone wanna tell me how that makes them evil all of a sudden?
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
You buy a TiVo box for a few hundred, pay a few hundred
more for the subscription that doesn't really pay
for content, just indexing and the privilege of them
not disabling the box that you paid for. All of this in
order to watch commercial-filled television that you
are also paying your sat or cable company even more
money for, all tied up in a DRM wrapper.
Now, they are collecting your stats, your private life
(as collected on the box you paid for, perhaps continually),
and selling it. And people here think it's great because
(at least today) it's not directly tied to your name.
Boy, that TV must be really great stuff.
OSDN is already using your data for their own benefit:
.
OSDN may use accumulated aggregate data for several purposes including, but not limited to, marketing analysis, evaluation of OSDN's services, and business planning.
There is no prohibition against selling it to other parties. So why the cry of wolf ? I'm pretty sure that if someone found aggregate Slashdot information useful, OSDN would be - or is - selling it. And I don't care. Is it a violation of my privacy if some marketing firm studies aggregate customer behavior in a store and discovers that the majority of customers turn right when they enter ? I don't think it is, and that sort of aggregate research is happening all the time.
1. I record shows for the kids and History/Discovery channel stuff for myself. A few network shows here and there, and once in awhile, a little T&A off the cable channels. Naughty, but not really embarassing. If this gets "reported" I can live with it. However, it's broken down by zip code, so I don't have many concerns. Plus, if it shows that I really like well thought out, witty commercials (there are some out there), basically advertainment and not mindless ads, and this creates better advertainment for me, is this not a good thing?
2. TiVo could become more relevant that Neilsen data. Imagine, they can break down for networks what was recorded vs. what was actually watched, when it was watched, and what commercials were watched while viewing. Combine this with the fact (here's where TiVo shareholder's laugh with glee) that I will PAY THEM to LET THEM track this data, and be happy to do so, it's a win win for the company and the consumer.
TiVo truly does put one in control of their viewing. If they want to gather a little data, virtually anonymously, fine by me.
Partridge Family fan and then I'll be a target for the next layoff and then I'll be laid off and then I'll lose my house and then my wife will leave me and then I'll get beat up at the rescue mission over a bottle of MD20-20 and then they'll put impants in my brain at the emergency room and then the CIA will transmit orders to me through PBS and then I'll have to wear aluminum foil on my head all the time and then that won't matter because while I am laying in the gutter on skid row George W. Bush and Dick Cheney will send a UFO to abduct me and then I'll get probed (ouch) and then the aliens will clone me and then the clone will take over my old life and then I'll be a slave in the methane mines on Altair IV and then I'll get spaced by a slorg monster and then I'll die. All because of Tivo.
(I posted this to Usenet a while back, but since the privacy hysteria is starting again, I thought I would outline the threat as seen by some.)
The reason TiVo subscriptions are not more is exactly because of this business plan. They plan on making most of their money through selling focused advertising. TiVo has not been making a whole hell of a lot of money, and this is strategy is aimed at changing that. Essentially you have been getting a kickback since you signed up for TiVo since you have been paying a reduced subscription fee to TiVo as they have long planned to begin this advertising campaign.
Visualize the world of wine
Two major things to point out to those who will complain about the invasion of privacy: 1) Tivo says the info will be anonymous, and I believe them as that is all networks and advertisers are interested in anyway. 2) Tivo does allow you to opt-out from even anonymous data collection if you call up their customer service number.
I like it because I think it will show several interesting things about viewing habits. I think they will find that quality shows tend to have more loyal viewers than cheaper programming. I think they will also find that Tivo owners *do* watch some commercials, and that commercials are much more likely to be watched if they are *good*. I would hope than advertisers are smarter than we give them credit for, and I expect they won't mind, for example, if men fast forward past commercials for women's products.
If the TiVo viewing data really gets distributed there will be MUCH better ratings for /. TV like Star Trek(s), Red Dwarf, Blackadder, The Office, Buffy,... and the stuff on TechTV and the Sci-Fi channel.
Nerd viewing habits will be a force to be reckoned with.
Don't write letters to networks and advertisers - VOTE for your favorite shows with your TiVo!
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
Mod that up. I hope that TiVo sells its data, because then some people who lack cluesticks might suddenly get one. I want TV execs to know that I watch shows like Babylon 5, Star Trek, stuff on TechTV, and so on. But so far, most of what they give us is "The Golden Girls" in a thousand different variants. Anything that lets someone know what I personally watch is a good thing.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Actually, TiVo reporting the aggregate viewing statistics was a *compelling feature* of the service to me. I HATE (repeat after me, HATE) the Nielsen's. I do not believe 6,000 homes accurately reflects the television viewership of this nation, especially when it depends on those people sitting down and logging their viewing experience in a journal. There have been far too many good television shows cancelled because the Nielsen "families" didn't watch it or chose to record it on their VCRs. There are 700,000 + TiVo subscribers versus 6,000 Nielsen homes. You tell me which one will have better statistics. Even if the Nielsens actually represent a larger overall base of the American market, the TiVo subscribers will actually represent the groups advertisers want to reach anyway (tech savvy Gen X and Gen Y, and babyboomers with money). Now if I could just do a total "thumbs down" to all of Cal Worthington's ads I'd be a happy camper...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Tivo, on the other hand, has been very open and honest about their business and their hardware. They've never lied or attempted to be dishonest in any way. They've always been respectful of their cusotmers and made a good-faith effort to communicate with them. Also, they've respected the hacker community and the hacker community has respected them in turn. This has brought about a lot of great enhancements for the series one unit and the company has been good about listenting to their customers and what they want.
Tivo has stated since day one that they collect informtation, detailed what information they collect, and have provided a way to opt out. They've also stated that they would probably sell the information at some later point. People have verified that Tivo is telling the truth in regards to what information they collect and send back to their servers.
Tivo has earned most customers respect whereas Microsoft seems almost proud that they have not.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
"96.3 percent of our subscribers skip commercials."
Oops.
paintball
"Aggregate" data by 5-digit zip code is not enough to personally identify you. It's like watching log-ins by IP address. You get liumped with everybody else who was watching Smallville or Buffy reruns.
Marketing is ESSENTIAL to support broadcast TV as we know it. Someone has to pay for all those production costs, and right now it is the advertisers. I like it that way. TIVO and other time-shifting technologies scare advertisers and TV producers because they see costs rising and revenues dwindling.
Companies waste a lot of money on advertising because they don't know what commercials "work" (or are at least watched). If they could get fast feedback, maybe the really stupid and pointless commercials would go away faster. If they could get better at spotting what ads are getting viewed/skipped on what shows, maybe the shows wouldn't go away for lack of advertisers.