Slashdot Mirror
TiVo To Sell Customer Data
camusflage writes "Yahoo has a story that details TiVo's plans to sell customer data to advertisers and broadcasters. While individuals will be anonymous, data will be made available in aggregate form, including ZIP code. The San Jose Mercury News has additional coverage on the news."
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. So they're going to sell this information to other people, but I'd like to see it for myself, too. I'd like to know just what they're tracking and how the reports look for the ad agencies buying this stuff.
I wonder if TiVo includes any data like "we know that such-and-such in this zip code makes between 40,000-80,000 a year and has 2.3 kids, etc."
Is there an opt-out feature? Can I keep the anonymous data from getting to TiVo the first place (apart from unplugging the unit)?
I hope the networks (in addition to the advertisers which will of course snap it up... thank god for keyword 'aggregate') will look at this data as well. I have always thought that I effectively have a Nielson box sitting under my TV, so why shouldn't they take advantage of it? Maybe Firefly would still be on the air with statistics from our Tivo boxes...
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
Am I the only one who thinks that the extreme "privacy" fringe is doing a lot to discredit legitimate privacy concerns.
I care if Tivo sells a list of the programs to watch to a local advertiser who will then call me on the phone, bang on my door, or spam me with "special offers just for me." Tivo, in that case, is attempting to act as a middleman in setting up a business relationship that I have no interest in.
I do not care if Tivo sells data about how many people in California, or even my ZIP code, watched Buffy last night.
Now, there are issues with privacy policies; if Tivo has said that they wouldn't do this and then have, they've lied to their customers, and even the most paranoid privacy freak has a right to expect companies to live up their word.
But really, there are enough *very* significant privacy issues today that relate to *government* spying on *individuals* with no probably cause, warrant, etc.
I'm not at all sure that groups, such as "everyone who lives in my ZIP code" are, or should be, entitled to the same level of privacy protection that individuals deserve.
I mean, if I go down to the street corner and count how many people push the "push to cross" button and then sell that data to the people who make "push to cross" buttons, am I somehow violating peoples' privacy? If I do it in 10 cities? 100? Does it matter if I'm incorporated and have employees or not?
I'm willing to hear the other side, and I certainly subscribe to the slippery-slope argument, but for the most part I think this kind of corporate aggregation of data is at most a very minor concern in a world filled with huge privacy issues.
Cheers
-b
I want the ad moguls and networks to know what I watch, because they might just notice that my viewing habits, like those of many people, are nothing like what they believe them to be.
I don't watch ads. Period. I watch a few good shows, and I ignore the rest.
On a larger scale, my dream would be for the entire system of free-but-with-forced-ad-watching television to fall to pieces. Sure, it might mean the end of television as mass-media, but it would also force a lot of mouth-breathers to do something other than watch TV every night.
Of course, I'm pretty tired right now, so make what you will of the preceding. ^_~
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
If they use this information wisely, we all win. Admittedly that's a big if, but if the data is such that they can determine geek viewing habits, we can have more quality geek TV.
HIPAA laws even allow for this. I work in long term care and we group data by regions. We just remove all identifiable data.
This allows us to do trending and catch things that would otherwise be impossible.
Trending is good when it's aggregate data. When the book police come to your door it's bad.
Read the privacy policy. It's been around since TiVo was founded, and nothing in that time has changed.
TiVo has been selling your demographic data for years. Superbowl advertisers bought information from TiVo to see which Brittney Spears commercial got the most replay and in which kinds of households.
This has absolutely nothing to do with an infrigement of rights, as it all strictly adheres to an agreement between customer and provider made fully clear at the time of purchase.
To offset the costs of building and maintaining a complicated system that provides an excellent service to consumers they sell information on their demographics. Anyone wanna tell me how that makes them evil all of a sudden?
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
Then why do people need to write the rest of my address on the envelope? Zip+4 may in some cases may indicate as much as the same apartment building (if it has sufficient units) or resolve to the same single-family house if you happen to be the only house for miles around (in which case you probably never use the +4) but I doubt these cases are abundant.
However, you do have an interesting point...
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
What I'd like to see is for there to be an option in the tivo ad item (main screen) to thumb-down an ad I don't like, or don't even want to watch..
The reason TiVo subscriptions are not more is exactly because of this business plan. They plan on making most of their money through selling focused advertising. TiVo has not been making a whole hell of a lot of money, and this is strategy is aimed at changing that. Essentially you have been getting a kickback since you signed up for TiVo since you have been paying a reduced subscription fee to TiVo as they have long planned to begin this advertising campaign.
Visualize the world of wine
Two major things to point out to those who will complain about the invasion of privacy: 1) Tivo says the info will be anonymous, and I believe them as that is all networks and advertisers are interested in anyway. 2) Tivo does allow you to opt-out from even anonymous data collection if you call up their customer service number.
I like it because I think it will show several interesting things about viewing habits. I think they will find that quality shows tend to have more loyal viewers than cheaper programming. I think they will also find that Tivo owners *do* watch some commercials, and that commercials are much more likely to be watched if they are *good*. I would hope than advertisers are smarter than we give them credit for, and I expect they won't mind, for example, if men fast forward past commercials for women's products.
Mod that up. I hope that TiVo sells its data, because then some people who lack cluesticks might suddenly get one. I want TV execs to know that I watch shows like Babylon 5, Star Trek, stuff on TechTV, and so on. But so far, most of what they give us is "The Golden Girls" in a thousand different variants. Anything that lets someone know what I personally watch is a good thing.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Actually, TiVo reporting the aggregate viewing statistics was a *compelling feature* of the service to me. I HATE (repeat after me, HATE) the Nielsen's. I do not believe 6,000 homes accurately reflects the television viewership of this nation, especially when it depends on those people sitting down and logging their viewing experience in a journal. There have been far too many good television shows cancelled because the Nielsen "families" didn't watch it or chose to record it on their VCRs. There are 700,000 + TiVo subscribers versus 6,000 Nielsen homes. You tell me which one will have better statistics. Even if the Nielsens actually represent a larger overall base of the American market, the TiVo subscribers will actually represent the groups advertisers want to reach anyway (tech savvy Gen X and Gen Y, and babyboomers with money). Now if I could just do a total "thumbs down" to all of Cal Worthington's ads I'd be a happy camper...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
It's actually pretty cool.
Might mean that broadcasters can actually release relevant programming for indavidual markets for a change.
I think it's great.
The outcome can only mean more star trek in my local area.
So life is good.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
I love the "I paid more for it so it must be better" effect. My favorite example (outside of IT purchasing practices) was a weight loss formula sold on TV. Their main justification for charging $150/bottle was that you wouldn't pay that if it didn't work. Nice and circular argument, and I suspect lost on the public. And obviously they find suckers.
I expect, as you state, it's similar for newspapers and their advertisers, so they charge a token cost at the newsstand.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
The same demographics that buy tivos are the ones not targetted well by ads or tv shows (imo). And honestly Id like more programming that targets ME, and I wouldnt mind ads for things I would want to buy.
Lets see more shows like farscape, firefly, who's line is it anyway, futurama, etc.
Sleep is for the weak.
The problem with Tivo still remains that although they make 'anonymity' noises now, they can de-anonymize any time they choose. Right now, the user base is ramping up, and so Tivo is very careful not to upset people. When the user base is steady, the situation is likely to be different.
n t.asp?id=62&type=0
I will only belive Tivo's privacy posture if the data is stored anonymously as opposed to simply used anonymously. The only reason they can possibly have to store user data now is because they are effectively reserving the right to de-anonymize later for business purposes.
There is much info on Tivo privacy; one link is http://www.privacyfoundation.org/privacywatch/pri
As a last point, the UK Data Protection Act insists the people-data databases declare data use on forming. If the data use is changed (eg info can now be sold, before not so) then the historical data must be scrapped. That theoretically protects against data misuse by collecting under false pretenses, or complete about turns on privacy statements that have happening in USA.
While I have no objection to Tivo selling aggregate data to marketers by ZIP code (at least as long as it's only the 5-digit code), the fact that they can collect the data at all is problematic. All it takes now under the US Patriot Act is a simple request by a government agency for a surreptitious record of an individual's viewing habits. Under the proposed Total Information Awareness program, the viewing habits of every Tivo subscriber would automatically be transmitted to the government.
If you're seriously concerned about it, figure out the format of the data Tivo sends in (some Tivo hacker may have already done it for you), interpose an old computer with Linux between it and the phone line, and filter out the stuff you don't want it to send in. Or if you're really adept, perhaps you could find a way to insert a filter program in the Tivo itself, and save the extra hardware. After seeing what Tivo hackers have done in the past, I have to think either of these approaches is possible.