Slashdot Mirror
TiVo To Sell Customer Data
camusflage writes "Yahoo has a story that details TiVo's plans to sell customer data to advertisers and broadcasters. While individuals will be anonymous, data will be made available in aggregate form, including ZIP code. The San Jose Mercury News has additional coverage on the news."
No one individuals personal privacy has been violated. So what is the big deal? Hopefully if they can sustain enough income from this, they can drop their monthly fees.
Unless you own your own zip-code (Ted Turner) this does not affect your "rights" in any way.
Unless there's a ZIP code in Wyoming with only one person...I don't see any rights being trampled, here.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Aggregate data is fine, for the most part (obviously, if your consumer base is 5 people, there might be an issue), but for this, I don't see the problem. And I'm a serious privacy advocate...
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
To me this doesn't seem like a big deal. This type of information is a marketing pleb's dream. And it looks like information about you personally would not be viewable. Aggregate is the way we as privacy experts should be pushing as a compromise. This is no big deal. And as someone who has seen how this aggregate data is used with GIS software. Again, I say... Nothing to see, move along. Ted Tschopp
Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
I thought they had planned to do this all along.
Either way, it's yet another reason to buy a TiVo instead of building your own (yes, I wrote that correctly). If you're using a TiVo companies will be paying attention to what you watch and potentially using the info to determine what to put on in the future. Build your own and they won't.
...the TV ratings (those Nieslen boxes) were divided by various zones as well. Perhaps not quite as finemasked as this, but I really don't see much of a privacy issue here. As long as they don't start selling subscription data for direct marketing, I wouldn't mind.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You didn't even read the summary, let alone the article. As long as they do not use any of your personal information, they are not invading your privacy. This is no more invasive than reading web server logfiles.
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
How would TiVo know you make between 40,000 and 80,000 a year?
;) Just don't complain when your local station uses the info and decides to cancel your favorite three-thumbs-up show. ;)
TiVo knows that I make more than $155.88/year, but I haven't given them an indication of how much more.
And yes, there's an opt out feature in the TiVo, so you can have your viewing statistics removed from your zip code. Big win for privacy.
Again I say, Tivo selling the viewing info is a GOOD THING. I am tired of shows I like getting cancelled for lack of Neilson ratings. I've never been nor have I even known a Neilson family. I don't like the fact that someone else is deciding what's good TV and what should be cancelled.
This will broaden the base of input for TV ratings. Another plus, Tivo owners tend to be geekish. This will most likely help the rating and staying power of shows that geeks watch (sci-fi to be specific). Maybe we finally have a fighting chance against inane 30 minute sitcoms and 'reality' TV.
My brother works for TiVo, and they have been planning to do this from the getgo. The idea is that they will be able to target advertising to different customer groups. For example, Ford might buy a 30 second ad spot, on a TV owned by a single man, 25 years old, might display an ad for a Ford Mustang while a TV owned by a family of 5 might show an ad for a minivan. This doesnt seem like a big deal to me, in fact I kind of like the fact that I wont have to sit through as many ads for crap I really am not interested in... I can finally watch the beer and sports car commercials I love so much.
Visualize the world of wine
So they're going to sell this information to other people, but I'd like to see it for myself, too.
I'm sure lots of us would like to see that data, but if they made it available to us for free, that would kinda negate the possibility of them SELLING the data for $$$, you know? Contact Tivo and I'm sure they'll get together a quote for you and you could purchase the data too.
Is there an opt-out feature?
Yes, you can call Tivo and opt-out, should you choose. It's quick and hassle free, I know lots of other Tivo owners who have done that.
Personally, I haven't opted out. I've seen the data that is sent to Tivo, it can't be tracked to me individually, and I'd like Tivo to be able to make a buck so they don't go out of business.
Really folks, this isn't a paranoid, tinfoil hat issue. It's just business, and Tivo's model seems far more ethical than most. I'm more than happy to help them out. It doesn't cost me anything.
You buy a TiVo box for a few hundred, pay a few hundred
more for the subscription that doesn't really pay
for content, just indexing and the privilege of them
not disabling the box that you paid for. All of this in
order to watch commercial-filled television that you
are also paying your sat or cable company even more
money for, all tied up in a DRM wrapper.
Now, they are collecting your stats, your private life
(as collected on the box you paid for, perhaps continually),
and selling it. And people here think it's great because
(at least today) it's not directly tied to your name.
Boy, that TV must be really great stuff.
OSDN is already using your data for their own benefit:
.
OSDN may use accumulated aggregate data for several purposes including, but not limited to, marketing analysis, evaluation of OSDN's services, and business planning.
There is no prohibition against selling it to other parties. So why the cry of wolf ? I'm pretty sure that if someone found aggregate Slashdot information useful, OSDN would be - or is - selling it. And I don't care. Is it a violation of my privacy if some marketing firm studies aggregate customer behavior in a store and discovers that the majority of customers turn right when they enter ? I don't think it is, and that sort of aggregate research is happening all the time.
1. I record shows for the kids and History/Discovery channel stuff for myself. A few network shows here and there, and once in awhile, a little T&A off the cable channels. Naughty, but not really embarassing. If this gets "reported" I can live with it. However, it's broken down by zip code, so I don't have many concerns. Plus, if it shows that I really like well thought out, witty commercials (there are some out there), basically advertainment and not mindless ads, and this creates better advertainment for me, is this not a good thing?
2. TiVo could become more relevant that Neilsen data. Imagine, they can break down for networks what was recorded vs. what was actually watched, when it was watched, and what commercials were watched while viewing. Combine this with the fact (here's where TiVo shareholder's laugh with glee) that I will PAY THEM to LET THEM track this data, and be happy to do so, it's a win win for the company and the consumer.
TiVo truly does put one in control of their viewing. If they want to gather a little data, virtually anonymously, fine by me.
Comments by many people here state that this isn't an invasion of privacy because TiVo only tells the zipcode. While normally I would agree, these same people howl whenever they hear about spyware. If you have a problem with spyware that claims that it does not give away personally identifiable information, then why don't you have a problem with this (assuming the spyware license doesn't lie. For all you know, they could be telling the truth, despite their shady nature)? I realize that spyware has many other issues as well (eating up your bandwidth and resources) but most of the complaints seem to come from the invasion of privacy that people feel.
They are clearly stating that they are not going down to a single person... so there is no issue here.
in fact, all that can happen from this is a) increase revenue/profits for a kick-ass outfit like TiVo (we're still sorta in a capitalist society here, aren't we?) b) reduce my bill.
Both are a win.
Hell, if they wanted to identify it down to me (Nielsen?) and charge me nothing for the service.. i'd be up for that.
but that's me. If you'd not be down with that, then they should not have any right to do that.
and since they are not, this is a GOOD news story, not a BAD news story.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
I am completely stunned. I am hearing lines such as "It's aggregate data, so who cares."
If you replaced the word "Tivo" with "Microsoft," I swear there would be a posse forming in some thread on this comments page as we speak to go down to their corporate HQ and burn every copy of XP they received with their PCs.
I can just picture a story "Microsoft to track aggregate data on what mp3s people are listening to through a hook in Media Player in its latest software update."
Do you picture replies saying "Well, if it maybe helps lower the price of the next OS release $15, I'm all for it." In all seriousness, can you picture replies like that on Slashdot?
Why is Tivo given the benefit of the doubt? Is it just because it's such a geek-chic tool? Is it just a couple talking heads trying to fill a meme of "No no, it's aggregate, it's cool?"
Tivo is making money as it is. If they do this, your subscription rates WILL NOT go down. You WILL NOT see better programming on tv as a result. You WILL NOT be able to resurrect your favourite show from Tivo data vs Nielsen data because Nielsen data is multi-tiered (It's not just a box they track, people fill in journals and other things).
On top of that, the data they're getting is not "global" data, it represents the data taken from households where either a) expendable income is high, or b) expendable income is not high, but someone living there is a techie.
What do you hope to gain from this? More directed ads? Didn't most of you people get a Tivo to skip the ads in the first place?
> 97 percent of the individuals in Cambridge whose data appeared in a data base which contained only their nine digit zip code and birth date could be identified with certainty
First of all, I have never seen a 9 digit zip code. Secondly, and more importantly, the crucial data there is your birth date. If that data is not included in the TiVo information, this post means very little. If the BDate is in there, that's a problem.
While individuals will be anonymous
. . . for now . . .
"Aggregate" data by 5-digit zip code is not enough to personally identify you. It's like watching log-ins by IP address. You get liumped with everybody else who was watching Smallville or Buffy reruns.
Marketing is ESSENTIAL to support broadcast TV as we know it. Someone has to pay for all those production costs, and right now it is the advertisers. I like it that way. TIVO and other time-shifting technologies scare advertisers and TV producers because they see costs rising and revenues dwindling.
Companies waste a lot of money on advertising because they don't know what commercials "work" (or are at least watched). If they could get fast feedback, maybe the really stupid and pointless commercials would go away faster. If they could get better at spotting what ads are getting viewed/skipped on what shows, maybe the shows wouldn't go away for lack of advertisers.
. . . they're sampling the programs that are being recorded. Record your favorite shows! Even if you're watching them live! If they would have sold this data last year we could have saved Firefly, Futurama, and Farscape.
"We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
This is in no way a good thing. In fact its very very very bad, and while it is in itself not an invasion of privacy it will lead a great deal of invasion, of privacy that is. Even though the data is annonoumous they still get zipcodes which means that the people tivo sells your info to will be mailing you huge masses of junk mail specificly tailored to the viewing habits of everyone in your zipcode. And yes this will deffinitaly happen as it has most certainly happen before. Companies have no respect for the indvidual and never will.