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Geocaching Crackdown?
thejuggler writes "Some cities and counties are banning or considering banning geocaching in their parks. "It's good, clean, wholesome fun - just do it someplace else," said Brian Adams, chief of resource protection for the St. Croix National Scenic Riverway, which has banned geocaching. The geocaching.com website claims there are over 600 caches within 100 miles of the twincities."
You could bury them, thereby destroying the landscape in much the same way, or mark them with red flags and destroy the landscape as well as make the game too easy.
dude, you don't need to go to geocaching.com to find the gps coords for a city. Most of the online map sites will give them to you. for FREE even. Imagine that.
Yep, I never spell check.
More incorrect spellings can be found he
I have geocached for a while now. It seems like it has changed though, and is attracting a much wider following. When I moved to the Charleston area two years ago, there were about 20 caches nearby. Now we have 243. With some many more people involved, it can create a lot of traffic. The best places for caches are off the beaten path where they are unlikely to be disturbed by people who may have ill-intentions. This is precisely where the traffic hurts the most. I haven't read the article yet, still can't get it to load, but as someone who loves spending times outdoors, I'm not sure where I stand on this. It's a fun hobby, but with too many people not being cautious about thier impact on the surroundings, it could be not that great for the park or area the cache is in.
-Michael
This is a great idea, most people have become so hard-wired to their televisions, their computers, and their video games, that we as a human race are beginning to forget the natural beauty in the world. We are shown on television that big buildings, 8 lane highways, and sprawling suburbs are things of marvel or beauty, just watch the discovery cluster if you dont believe me. Many times we hear about park representatives trying to get people into their parks so they dont lose funding or become development areas. Now they are becoming upset that people are visiting their parks? make up your mind!
just my several cents
Many times you are not searching for an object left by someone else, but you are looking for a static object, such as a tombstone.
As long as you are looking for a virtual cache, are you okay?
One problem with geocaching I see is that eventually trails will be created to caches far out in the woods. People always take the route starting from the nearest trail and the path of least resistance through the woods. This means that if enough people goto this same cache, a path will be worn in the woods. Once a path is there, what's the point of a GPS? You follow the path right to the cache. You can't move the cache obviously so what do you do? Perhaps people can show some sportsman ship and pick random places to start their trek to the cache.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
As it is i see this as a short lived sport. Right now, it's at the fun stage, where people enjoy it, trust it, and relatively few people are doing it.
What happens though, when it's wildly popular? We'll have some incident where that lunchbox cache is booby trapped, and some kid gets hurt. Then, the news will jump all over it as some dangerous unregulated, unapproved event on public property. And of course, you'll have to think of the children. Blah.
I'd like to try it, if i had the $, and the caches in the area, but alas, i don't.
Perhaps if they try to move it to areas in the country, along rivers, or along regular hiking and biking trails? You could label each cache on the net as a drive, walking, or bike riding cache. These are just some of my own suggestions. I declare them open source and free, do what you will with them. Good luck to them, if this turns out to be a niche, even better. :P
There's a type of cache that's becoming very popular, called a "virtual cache." Nothing is stored on the site, it's just a coordinate, and a clue as to what you're supposed to find there. I'd like to see them ban that. What are they going to do, ban GPS units?
There have been a few cases of serious damage caused by cachers. In one instance, a cache was placed within 10 feet of a teepee ring, which is considered a sensitive archaeological site. If you've seen how the ground gets trampled around a cache, you'd see how this could be a problem. I can certainly understand the park officers being upset that someone posted a "please trample the grass" sign on such a site.
I do think it's a BIT hypocritical though; the public parks are always aching to increase flow through the park to keep their budgets, but apparently they just want people to come in the gate, get the headcount, eat a picnic out of their trunk and leave. When those people start exploring, they get upset.
OTOH, I have seen geocachers that have no interest in exploring. They beeline straight to the coordinates, tramping anything in the way, do their logging, and tromp straight out. But many of us spend an afternoon checking out the trails while we're there, which is exactly why the parks are (supposed to be) there.
Maybe the former types of cachers should take up benchmark hunting instead.
My dad and I both enjoy geocaching. In an effort to increase its popularity in our area, we have placed caches in local parks and other scenic places. One of our ideas was a multicache of all the Civil War forts in our county (there are 6). Two of them are on National Park land. We requested permission to place caches there, and after not hearing anything back for about a month, we placed the caches in inconspicuous areas in the parks. For a few months, we read logs of people who were really enjoying the caches and most of them remarked on how they never even knew about the sites before geocaching. Then things turned sour.
We started reading logs of people being harassed by park rangers. Some reported the park rangers about to arrest the geocachers for stepping off the path. We soon received an e-mail from a NPS official telling us that we were breaking the law by leaving the caches in the park. In the e-mail he specifically mentioned that geocachers dig up earth to find caches (all the caches were above ground) and that they tear up property and litter. None of these statements are true. We had to sneak in to get the caches back without getting arrested ourselves (apparently the park rangers were on the lookout for us).
How do you fight such ignorance? We sent back logs of people saying how much they enjoyed the areas and never knew of their existance before the caches were placed along with letters explaining the 'cache in, trash out' policy of geocaching, but to no avail. Any ideas where to go from here?
The article is heavily drama. I am a geocacher that knows two of the people mentioned in the article. When they say "Three park officials walk up. Will they kick him out? Not today," they're referring to Washington County Park Officials that not only allow geocaching, but promote it as well. Drama, Drama, Drama...
;-)
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Nola Cutts, mentioned in the article, said this:
"LOL -- You know what? I talked for the better part of an hour with this reporter about my philosophy of "leave no trace" and my "trash out" activities and the progress MnGCA [Minnesota Geocaching Association] was making with having people pick up garbage on the trails and how I thought geocaching was environmentally friendly in that regard..... You have all heard this from me before
Toward the end of the interview we were JOKING about how my husband hates to geocache and how I hate to fly fish. So what quote does he use, my speech about recycling or fly fishing? AAAAKKKKK!"
They chose to make an almost faticious battle between the parks and the unknown techno-nature-hippies instead of talking about how interesting Geocaching is, and not only that, but most Geocachers that I know of in the Twin Cities, and I know that most with the Minnesota Geocaching Association also help clean up city, county and state parks during caching trips. I'm dissapointed the article was even made, and even more so that it's on Slashdot!!!
The reporter failed to mention that the MN DNR is working on a plan for Geocaching in State Parks as well.
On a final note, that is my visi.com they found mentioned in the 2nd to last paragraph.
Reference URLs:
Thread about article with the MN Geocaching Association:
http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.ph
Thread about relations with MN DNR with the MN Geocaching Association:
http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.ph
Cache that was visited in the article:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de
Ian Stevens' Geocaching Profile (King Boreas) - the main cacher in the article - also an interesting note that he has *placed* more caches than any other cacher:
http://www.geocaching.com/profile/defaul
-s4xton
My name is Aaron Landry, and I approve this message.
There is a saying with geocachers called "Cache In - Trash Out". Basically, it means that whenever you go geocaching, you're supposed to leave the park better than when you came (ie. picking up trash). There is even a day for this.
I know some parks in my area that have become usuable because of this. This guy needs to get a clue and figure out that geocaching is not ruining parks.
Obviously spoken by someone who has no f'in idea what he's talking about.
Geocaches are not buried, just placed and usually covered with a few sticks. Properly placed, they are difficult to see unless you are looking straight at them, and even then they blend in. Most people use ammo boxes, or tupperware painted black or brown.
The rules state that the landscape is NOT to be disturbed, including when hunting, as much as possible. No food of any kind is to be in the cache, to avoid animals getting into them. Also, the "Cache in, trash out" campaign urges cachers to bring a bag and carry out trash that you see. My kids and I typically carry out one or two grocery bags of trash every trip. I've never seen ANY evidence that cachers have left any garbage; most of the stuff we find is the sort of thing that partying kids would dump.
Better block it all off/make it illegal so that people will just stay home.
I never understand the mentality of these folks. First, we don't get enough money because no one visits, then too many people are coming/going to the same place.
It's like the age old ban kids from downtown because they use skateboards. Ban kids from 'cruising', ban people from the park. You keep banning people from doing things you're just going to turn them into criminals for doing something that doesn't harm anyone
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I've found about 45 geocaches so far. It's been my experience that most caches seem to have a "shelf life" of about a year-2 years. After that, they can be lost, be stolen, or all of the geocachers in the area have already found it and it falls into disuse. Caches in our area (the northeastern US) typically follow a trail and then are hidden somehwhere 100-500 feet off the trail. Since it's rare that cachers will leave the trail at the same spot to search for the cache, I've never seen a cache where heavy traffic has created its own trail to the cache, except in the snow, and even then most cachers I know will deliberately create extra footprints to mislead later cachers from the path to the cache.
:-(.
Generally, cachers are a benevolent bunch of people, and I would think that anything that gives the parks and byways extra foot traffic is a good thing.
However, along the lines of this story, the group that maintains the Beaver Brook Reservation in Hollis, NH asked the local geocachers to remove all caches from the reservation. Thisi s in a place that is a haven for dirt and mountain bikers who take a much heavier tool on the trails than geocachers ever could! One of their arguments was that the caches are hidden in the woods off trail, so the cachers go tromping though the woods and disturb the local flora and fauna in search of the cache, whereas the bikers stay on the trails.
This never seemed to be a problem in the days of letterboxing. I guess geocaching has become a victim of its own success
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
If parks are upset because this is going on without any kickback for them, they're obviously missing the concept of Cache In/Trash Out (previously mentioned, I know). There's also some states (such as here in North Carolina) that allow placing caches after paying for permits. Better than an outright ban, at least. Caches are supposed to be maintained anyway, so that seems to work for a lot of people here.
All I want is a kind word, a warm bed and unlimited power.
As with anything that becomes popular, it presents itself to abuse. More so with fads. Posting this on /. was a bad idea. It really isn't suitable for mass consumption. Slashdot crowd isn't what it used to be. Hopefully geocaching won't "catch-on". Hopefully some joe-schmoe doesn't decide that it will be fun to plant an unpleasant surprise for a cache.
Good behavior and respect is like common sense. It's rare among the general populace. I would want the practice of this activity be limited to those that are in the know, if I were into this sort of thing. Best kept secrets are best kept by being secret, or rather obscurity.
I might suggestion that geocaching be taught through a buddy-like system instead of hanging it out there for anyone to just pick up.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
I work on an air force base. One day a few months ago, I heard that traffic was backed up going out of one of the gates that is near a freeway overpass.
Someone had reported that a person had left a suspicious package near the overpass.
They closed the gate, called out the bomb squad, cavalry, etc., only to find that the suspicious package was a geocache.
So be careful where you place your geocache, consider who might be watching and what conclusions they might jump to.
And the people still treat the environment like crap. I remember going to a beautiful Shinto shrine waterfall type place up in the mountains near Hakone - and seeing coke/coffee cans, cigarette butts and chip packets all along the way. Depressing. Shimoda "white sand" beach is depressing too - the nearest thing to a beach you can get withina few hours of Tokyo, and it's covered in litter. The Japanese have many fine qualities, but being environmentally aware/eco friendly isn't one of them unfortunately.
I think the world overall needs more anti-litter campaigns to encourage people to "do the right thing" because the same problem exists in London, New York and most of the other places I have lived. It's not perfect here in Aus either, but I think there is a lot higher level of litter awareness than other countries, and I think that's largely because of the intense campaigns they 20 years or so ago that hammered it into everyones head that you should treat your environment like you treat your lounge - don't just chuck stuff over your shoulder.
I've now been geocaching for over two years. In that time, I've learned more about the environment and *done* more about the environment than I had done in the previous 24 years of my life. Geocaching is directly responsible for that.
Thanks to what I've learned geocaching, when I go on hikes with friends, I'm the person imploring them to stay on the trails (*especially* if the trail is wet and muddy, since walking around the puddle will only make it wider). I've taught several people that bringing a canvas sack and trash bag along on a hike makes picking up litter a breeze.
One example: I was out in the Henderson Swamp area of the Atchafalaya basin area of Louisiana last weekend. While out there, I picked up approximately 13 pieces of floating litter (depends on what you count... I counted the two plastic wrappers individually). Why did I spend my valuable personal watercraft time and gas on cleaning up a couple miles of litter along I-10 over the swamp? Because I learned to do it from CITO (Cache In, Trash Out) and geocaching. Geocaching has made me a more nature-conscious person... it'd be a shame to ban it more. (Note: In places like, say, Yellowstone near Old Faithful, I would be the first person to vote for a geocaching ban, but in, say, Baton Rouge parks... that'd be counter-productive.)
Incidentally, I learned nature from geocaching, and I learned software rights from Linux. I've spent most of my free time for the last half-year developing an application for geocaching... alas, there are not enough Linux-loving application programmers who are also geocachers, and so a native Linux port isn't forthcoming, unfortunately... maybe one day...
Geocaching is perfect for getting people out of their homes and getting some exercise - especially from those who don't consider themselves "hikers". There has been one solved murder case because of geocaching. A dead body was found along a river bank 100 yards from a geocache. A geocacher found the body and immediately notified authorities. In turn, a murder case was solved. This has been about two years ago. Last summer, while in Canada, I found a stash of Marajuana under some tree cover. I told the local authorities and they investigated the matter. So, you see.. geocaching is a perfect way for the little people make a difference in this world. Later, happycat64.
Tim
Just a few years ago there was a big complaint from the National Park Service that no one ever visited the parks. No people are going and they are complaining that people are going, walking and seeing the parks? Something doesn't set right with me.
I am a geocacher and I have never seen a cache cause damage to a location.
Two years from now, if they get the regulations, they will again be complaining that no one visits the parks again.
I live in the Santa Cruz, California area and there's quite a large number of caches around here. Some of the most popular are in the city, such as MicroCaches where tiny containers are slipped into niches. When you think about it, cache stashing in town is a very tricky business as you don't want it found by just anyone and you want seekers to find it, log entry and rehide without attracting too much attention. I'm considering placing a micro just because they get lots of visits, can be very challenging to place/find, and are just plain neat! Besides, even kids can get involved with this kind of activity, that just gives me a case of the warm fuzzies (which, curmudgeon that I am, doesn't happen often.)
This is precisely where the traffic hurts the most. I haven't read the article yet, still can't get it to load, but as someone who loves spending times outdoors, I'm not sure where I stand on this. It's a fun hobby, but with too many people not being cautious about thier impact on the surroundings, it could be not that great for the park or area the cache is in.
I haven't read it, yet, either, but I'll draw on this bit about unwanted traffic.
Most certainly a poorly planned cache, which encourages bushwhacking through sensitive environments or leaves a lot of beaten down undergrowth, should be terminated. But turning away traffic from parks?!?! What the fsck is that? Parks are for the public, and that includes responsible GeoCachers! I've had a belly-full of people stealing mountain bike trails ("Oh, it damages the environment, but the horses are OK") for similar reasons. I've been on trails which have existed for decades and are in good condition. OTOH horses really shread trails and create errosion problems. Occassionally there's a trail that biking has done damage to, but permanent closure isn't the answer, better trail maintenance is.
All that said, I've only been GeoCaching for a month, but I'm out int he parks (paying FEES!) and having a marvelous time (Check some photo collages at this site and I've recently stashed my first cache (look on Geocaching.com for "A Room With A View") and took pains to be certain it won't pollute the environment (It's a steel ammo box), no danger to critters (steel and no food inside) and seekers won't damage the area by seeking it. It's a bit of a tough cache so it probably won't see more than a few visits a year.
In these times, why not See America First, and let this great outdoor activity be a part of that. Fight these sit-on-their-arses members of the No Fun Club!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
this is more modern variant of a game that has been played in the UK and no doubt other countries for decades. 'Post Boxes' are hidden around the UK containing stamps plus other souvenirs and map references to other 'Post Boxes.' Rather than use GPS participants use a good old fashioned map and compass.
Just thought I'd pass on some personal experience. I started geocaching more than a year ago and let me tell you, this is a great deal of fun. I've done more hiking in the last year than I've ever done in my life. Being a software engineer, I desperately need some solid exercise and gyms are a complete waste of money, IMHO. Having a goal (finding the cache) is much more enjoyable than taking a walk. Having done close to fifty caches, I can say that none of these affects the environment. In fact, Geocaching promotes taking a trash bag with you to pick up the litter left by the rest of the fair-weather hikers. Who raised these littering boneheads is beyond me. Geocaching is not allowed in the National Park system which I find ridiculous. A recent experience at the Grand Canyon affirmed my opinion that evironmentalists are hypocrits and elitists. I attended a nighttime slide show entitled "The sounds of the canyon". The ranger made it very clear that the park service doesn't like the helicopters flying around even though they have a strict flight path. They also make it very clear that it's illegal to ignore anyone in trouble. The next morning, I rose at oh-dark-hundred to go to Yaki Point to take sunrise pictures. Having driven out to the site, I discovered that the National Park service in it's infinite wisdom closed the access road to vehicular traffic. I parked at a picnic area and started to hike in with all my camera gear. Twice a shuttle bus blew past me even though I tried to flag them down. When I finally made it out to the point, I spent about an hour taking pictures. The only sound I could hear was the sound of those damn shuttle busses. IMHO, The National Park Service has become extremist in it's view of visitors. If you're not a serious outdoorsman, we don't want you past the visitor center. This is evidenced by Denali's one access road into the park on which you're only allowed to travel if you take the scheduled bus trip or if you've got a backcountry permit.
There was a parks meeting here in Loveland to disuss this subject. Many Geocachers showed up and had a say in it. In the end they banned all Geocaches in the parks including Virtual Caches. A virtual caches is when you give coordinates to a point of interest ie: Nice statue, big tree, spectacular view. But nothing is actually left that was not there before. They decided this was bad. Never mind it infringes on free speech. Banned! Next. It was really amazing and wrong.