Gentoo's Portage to be Ported to Mac OS X

billatq writes "I love Mac OS X, but I'm also a fan of running Gentoo Linux because of its powerful package management system. A Debian-style system (fink) is already on Mac OS X, but now it seems that Gentoo's Portage is going to be available for it. Gentoo's announcement can be found on their web site. I can't wait until we see what the Gentoo team has prepared."

Comments

hmm

[rastachops]

I've never used Portage before, I have used fink but didn't like it much.... so whats so good about Portage and why should I download it?

Re:hmm

[Asprin]

It's a CLI package manager. You type 'emerge gnuchess' and portage goes out to the Gentoo server, finds the gnuchess source code package, downloads it, asks you some config questions, makes it (compiling from source using optimized compiler settings you've already set up) and installs it.

The advantage is that you get exactly what you ask for, compiled from the ORIGINAL SOURECE. Since you compiled it yourself, you can optimize the compiler to build for your specific platform only.

Re:hmm

[klmth]

The real advantage of portage is not that it installs and compiles gnuchess.
The greatest advantage is that is follows your guidelines for what features should be installed.
"Ssl support, you say? No problem! Next time I update the system, I'll be sure to update every app that has support for it!"

Re:hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't apt do that?

Re:hmm

[Goner]

"...asks you some config questions..."

No, it doesn't even do that. You specify them all through what are known as USE flags in a file called /etc/make.conf, as in gnuchess USEs opengl (or whatever, actually it doesn't depend on any USE flags). But portage can also do cool things like build straight from cvs repositories for apps like ardour that don't currently have even tarballs out. All of this is pretty darn well documented on the gentoo site, and I recommend people check it out. (Especially if you have tons of time on your hands ;))

Re:hmm

[2nd Post!]

How is this different from fink?

sudo fink install orbit

It downloads the orbit source, compiles, and installs it.

Re:hmm

[zojas]

one clarification: portage asks you no questions. configure-time options are set via USE flags in your make.conf file. see the portage user guide and the USE flag guide.

no questions means you can type 'emerge kde' and come back later after it has installed possibly dozens of packages with no more input from you.

Re:hmm

[m0rph3us0]

Another advantage of portage is that if you dont compile everything from source you get broken code. Especially since 90% of the code speed up from compiling yourself comes from libc and and the kernel there really isn't much point.

Re:hmm

[zojas]

portage differs from fink in that it is quite easy for you to specify system-wide compile-time options and optimization flags with portage. for example: don't like gnome? USE='-gnome' in your make.conf file will prevent gnome support from being compiled into every single package you install with portage.

yay [...]

[Anonymous Coward]

Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic

Gentoo Linux is an interesting new distribution with some great features. Unfortunately, it has attracted a large number of clueless wannabes and leprotards who absolutely MUST advocate Gentoo at every opportunity. Let's look at the language of these zealots, and find out what it really means...

"Gentoo makes me so much more productive."
"Although I can't use the box at the moment because it's compiling something, as it will be for the next five days, it gives me more time to check out the latest USE flags and potentially unstable optimisation settings."

"Gentoo is more in the spirit of open source!"
"Apart from Hello World in Pascal at school, I've never written a single program in my life or contributed to an open source project, yet staring at endless streams of GCC output whizzing by somehow helps me contribute to international freedom."

"I use Gentoo because it's more like the BSDs."
"Last month I tried to install FreeBSD on a well-supported machine, but the text-based installer scared me off. I've never used a BSD, but the guys on Slashdot say that it's l33t though, so surely I must be for using Gentoo."

"Heh, my system is soooo much faster after installing Gentoo."
"I've spent hours recompiling Fetchmail, X-Chat, gEdit and thousands of other programs which spend 99% of their time waiting for user input. Even though only the kernel and glibc make a significant difference with optimisations, and RPMs and .debs can be rebuilt with a handful of commands (AND Red Hat supplies i686 kernel and glibc packages), my box MUST be faster. It's nothing to do with the fact that I've disabled all startup services and I'm running BlackBox instead of GNOME or KDE."

"...my Gentoo Linux workstation..."
"...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy fan..."

"You Red Hat guys must get sick of dependency hell..."
"I'm too stupid to understand that circular dependencies can be resolved by specifying BOTH .rpms together on the command line, and that problems hardly ever occur if one uses proper Red Hat packages instead of mixing SuSE, Mandrake and Joe's Linux packages together (which the system wasn't designed for)."

"All the other distros are soooo out of date."
"Constantly upgrading to the latest bleeding-edge untested software makes me more productive. Never mind the extensive testing and patching that Debian and Red Hat perform on their packages; I've just emerged the latest GNOME beta snapshot and compiled with -O9 -fomit-instructions, and it only crashes once every few hours."

"Let's face it, Gentoo is the future."
"OK, so no serious business is going to even consider Gentoo in the near future, and even with proper support and QA in place, it'll still eat up far too much of a company's valuable time. But this guy I met on #animepr0n is now using it, so it must be growing!"

-

GTK+ Native or X-Windowed?

[erebus24]

Being a gentoo fan I know the portage for Mac OS X is a good thing (tm)... But I hate having to use the X11 server on my mac, I'd prefer everything to be as native as possible. So will it include the option to use one of the gtk+ Mac native ports (and possibly other widget/graphics libraries) or will we still have to crank up X11 before we can run any of the programs we install through the portage?

OpenDarwin and Darwinports

[Leimy]

Don't forget about Darwinports.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here,

[Asprin]

I can't wait until we see what the Gentoo team has prepared."

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but shouldn't it be just like portage on Gentoo? Macs *DO* have CLI's now, right?

name of the thing

[akellens]

The thing is called iPortage.
A link to sourceforge:
iPortage

Re:name of the thing

[claude_juan]

actually, iPortage is a gui version. portage in its "normal" form is very much command line.

NetBSD pkgsrc

[LizardKing]

NetBSD's pkgsrc collection can be used on MacOS X from what I understand. It's a "compile from source" system much like Gentoos, and has about 3700 packages available.

Chris

OS X will bring more geeks to the world

[chia_monkey]

Does anyone else see all this as such a beautiful way to bring more *NIX geeks to the world? The Mac used to be considered a "toy". REAL programmers code on their PCs or Sparc stations. But now you have this Mac toy with such powerful UNIX underpinnings that is really getting the programming and hacking community excited.

I can see kids toying around on their parent's Mac. They tinker. They tinker more. Soon they're playing with Fink or with Gentoo. All of a sudden there are soooo many *NIX hackers out there that didn't even mean to be in the arena.

I know I'm guilty of it. And thousands more will be in no time at all.

Re:OS X will bring more geeks to the world

[torpor]

I've been a geek since '78 and a unix nerd since '82. My first Unix box was a MIPS Magnum pizzabox.

I remember the day Linus told the minix list about his little linux project. I've used Linux, in some way, pretty much every day since then.

I've watched Be come and go. I still have a BeBox. I still have a stack of SGI Indy's too, which I always refer to as the "Old New Magnums".

I make geek toys.

You would have to tear my tiBook500 Rev *A* from my cold dead hard fingers. As a "Switcher", Apple can do no wrong in my book.

Show me a better Unix laptop and I'll switch.

This is going to rock

[Znonymous Coward]

Mac OS X is lacking in it's UNIX core. Fink is ok and all, but it's not great (IMHO). This will help spur competition and drive both products to mature and grow on the Mac platform.

I've always been a Mac zelot, now I can be a Genoo zelot as well. Yea!

Re:This is going to rock

[IpalindromeI]

Here's what you're missing.

Search for a keyword, in the name or description:
apt-cache search keyword

Search just in the name:
apt-cache search --names-only keyword

Simulate what would happen without doing it:
apt-get -s install package
apt-get --no-act install package

The nice thing about apt is that it doesn't take a year to do a simple search and the package descriptions are actually useful, instead of one cryptic line.

Re:This is going to rock

[Thomas A. Anderson]

Search for a keyword, in the name or description:
apt-cache search keyword


Yeah, that would be kinda cool


Search just in the name:
apt-cache search --names-only keyword


qpkg keyword

qpkg is a program in the gentool package - flags include:
-v print available versions
-i print package information
-d print packages that have multiple versions ins
talled
-f find package that owns file
-l print package contents
and many more options

Simulate what would happen without doing it:
apt-get -s install package
apt-get --no-act install package


emerge -p package


The nice thing about apt is that it doesn't take a year to do a simple search and the package descriptions are actually useful, instead of one cryptic line.


Which distro are you talking about? I find that neither of those describe gentoo.

Listen, you are more than welcome to like debian/fink over gentoo/gentoo-ppc (or any other distro or even os). No skin off my nose.

But don't spread untruths about another distro - it serves no usefull purpose.

huh?

[claude_juan]

ok, maybe i'm being silly but the "beauty" of portage is that you compile it from source. it seems to me that with the limited number of varying mac processors out there that it would be a much better deal if the mac portage would just install a binary that was precompiled for your particular processor. for you apple folk who dont know this, it can take hours upon hours to compile certain packages from source. now this is usually only larger things like kde and gnome, but there are a number of larger ones as well that suck to compile. but to date, thats what portage sells to people. "compile it from source!" "its better that way!" anyway, gentoo is cool and all, but its very much becoming the overwhelming cult distro of the linux world. i hope mac users know what they are getting into with this one.

Re:huh?

[clarkcox3]

it seems to me that with the limited number of varying mac processors out there that it would be a much better deal if the mac portage would just install a binary that was precompiled for your particular processor

There is still something to be said for compiling from source, even on a platform as homogenous as the mac. There are significant differences between the G3 and G4, and even among various G3s and G4s. The variety of optimal optimization settings will only increase if/when Apple introduces PPC970-based Macs (crossing fingers).

i hope mac users know what they are getting into with this one.

I would say that any mac user downloading a CLI-based package management tool, probably knows what they are getting in to.

Re:As I Understand It

[oojah]

And the big disadvantage with it is compiling OpenOffice...

(Yes, I know you don't have to)

Roger

Oh, boy

[Anonymous Coward]

I love Mac OS X, but I'm also a fan of running Gentoo Linux because of its powerful package management system.

Ladies and gentlemen, in case you're wondering, THIS is what "missing the point" looks like in its purest form.

Anybody who chooses their operating system based not on the software that's available for that operating system but the method for installing that software is missing the point. Grandly.

Re:Oh, boy

[agrippa_cash]

While I am among those easily swayed by the 'wow' factor, the poster is not guilty of this offence. He is also a fan of running *Gentoo* Linux becuase of the package system. I would assume that the poster likes Linux in general, and Gentoo because of Portage, as Portage is the main thing that differentiates Gentoo from the other distros.

Nope

[finkployd]

Nope, Apt installs binaries. They are configured with library requirements when the package maintainer builds them, and you either like their options (which generally include every possible option....and dependancy) or you don't.

Finkployd