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Running Linux On Acer's C100 Tablet PC
Christopher Coulter writes submitted a link to this detailed guide to putting Debian GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC. That most manufacturers aren't leaping to provide Linux support on their tablet PCs doesn't mean it isn't possible ;)
It now fits my main uses, which are reading academic papers, writing notes, and doing calculations.
My only question to him is: How could those needs not be met in a Windows XP envrioment? I would hope that he didn't spend too much time durring class and such trying to install Linux durring a lecture. I thought the main idea of a Tablet PC was to keep you from having so much hassle.
Because the CLI is particularly well-suited to tablet PCs, you know.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I work for one of the "Top 5" that builds Tablet PCs, and a few of us there have been prodding for approval to look into getting Linux on the Tablet PC. We have even had people come to us representing various distros, but still, our management doesn't see the value in Linux on the Tablet PC.
Another thing is that we get HUGE $$$$$ from Microsoft for advertising and development.
I thought handwriting recognition was one of the things people were attracted to when considering a tablet. Doesn't sound like he's got that (other than the graffiti-like app). Any OS programs that fit the bill?
1) Ink integration into applications?
2) Handwriting recognition?
3) Documentation annotation?
4) Screen rotation?
If you're going to drop the cash on a tablet pc (over that of a laptop) don't you think that we need to come up with this stuff?
That most manufacturers aren't leaping to provide Linux support on their tablet PCs doesn't mean it isn't possible ;)
When will manufacturers (not just tablet PCs, but hardware across the board) realize that supporting Linux will benefit them greatly? I mean, even the small steps that nVidia has taken has won the hearts of many a geek.
I guess they just don't realize it. Funny thing is, I have a friend who works for ATI and says that they use Linux workstations do big chunks of their development, but have never considered explicitly supporting their stuff on Linux. Maybe we should be more vocal as a community.
Congratulations on getting Linux working on TabletPC hardware. It's always neat to see linux on newer and different hardware.
/search/ using ink.
/run/ the application on this linux/tabletpc is not enough. Many will not be nearly as useful as if they were built assuming some sort of ink interface.
/not/ the same as a mouse interface. It has different dynamics and unique properties. Applications, for instance, that make use of the wacom tablets will be best suited for the linux/tabletpc combo.
There are some obvious next steps here. What makes TabletPC is not merely its form-factor or the hardware bits -- it is also, in large part, the software that is running on the TabletPC. TabletPC has all sorts of software hooks to make applications function reasonably well with just ink input. Can someone out there create a linux-equivalent to the ink applications for TabletPC?
For instance, the Journal is super cool. It lets you make notes in ink (or by text), it can translate, etc. Most importantly, you can
Most linux and applications in X assume keyboard + mouse input. This is not an unreasonable assumption; however, it does mean that just being able to
Note: the Ink interface is
Yes, this is kind of neat.
But for me, I won't bother with Linux on any stylus-only machine until you can get something resembling real HWR for Linux. Yes, there are softkeyboards and plenty of character recognition schemes. That isn't HWR.
While I'd rather use Linux than Windows for a number of the usual reasons, if I had a tablet, I'd use Win2k on it. At least with Windows I can get real HWR- in the form of PenOffice/CalliGrapher.
While the regular consumer cannot get real HWR for Linux, it does exist. Motorola's Lexicus division makes real HWR software for a number of platforms including Linux. However, you can't download it and install it for free, or even purchse it. You can as an OEM, but that doesn't do me much good. That, and it really blows- I've used Lexicus's HWR on a ProGear webpad under Linux. First, you have to write in a little box, not just anywhere on the screen. You cannot expand the dictionary- so you'll likely be going back to the softkb for names, etc. It is also very slow, at least on a 400 MHz Crusoe. Oh well...
I'd love to be proven wrong. If anyonem knows of any other real HWR software for Linux commercial or free, please holler!
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
In the cnet article about the 'net fridge, they mention that soon, the Internet Fridge might be converted to Linux anyway, by the manufacturers. At which point thousands of geeks will either a) Sue them for some odd GPL violation, b) buy millions for no reason, c) complain that it's not using the right distro, or d) bitch about the fact that they have to pay for it at all. :-P (notice the smiley at the end... dont hurt me!)
I have a couple of Tablet PCs. The handwriting recognition that comes with Tablet PC is largely useless. Furthermore, ink handling is poorly integrated into the OS.
That means that when you use a Tablet PC, you are reduced to using the PocketPC character recognizer or the on-screen keyboard. And for that, Linux has equivalents that are as good or better (xscribble and xvkdb).
So far, there hasn't been much demand for connected handwriting recognition for Linux, or for ink software, because there haven't been many tablets. Now that tablets are fairly affordable, thanks to Microsoft, that is likely going to change. Open source operates in response to supply and demand; it's not usually first, but it usually fills the needs of users.
Will it be cooler or "wower" to be able to install and run WindowsXP on a PunchCard MainFrame, so you scan or bluetooth (Plug'n'Play you see?) a bunch of punch hole signals and it'll produce a nicely formatted Word document?
Can someone out there create a linux-equivalent to the ink applications for TabletPC?
/search/ using ink.
/not/ the same as a mouse interface.
Yes. In fact, a lot of software already exists. X11 has been used for more than a decade with tablets (Wacom, etc.), so all the pen input and character recognizer support is there. Furthermore, Gtk+ and a few other toolkits have low-level support for pen input.
In addition, the Linux-based handhelds already use pen input, so there is experience with, and support for, Linux and X11-based pen-based applications, although those are, of course, for small-screen devices.
For instance, the Journal is super cool. It lets you make notes in ink (or by text), it can translate, etc. Most importantly, you can
I have tried using Journal for taking notes. It makes for a slick demo, but ultimately, I find a keyboard (even a one-handed keyboard) more efficient. Note that few of the features in Journal are novel--similar software has been around for decades.
Note: the Ink interface is
You should tell that to Microsoft: most of the software running on Tablet PC has been very poorly adapted to a pen interface and feels like it's been written for a mouse.
But you can't really do anything important (system-config type stuff) without resorting to a CLI
Sure you can. You can use Webmin for a web-based GUI, and it lets you administer pretty much everything on a Debian system. As an added bonus, it works pretty much the same way with several other Linux and UNIX flavors.
(There are a number of other GUI-based configuration tools for Linux as well.)
Honestly, I'd love to see anyone try and ssh anywhere with just ink for input!
.you have to peck out a username and password. Same with saving documents and creating folders. I should note that updates to the platform are coming soon to address problems like these.
Having built Tablet PC apps, I can say that there are a number of reasons why the platform just ain't there yet, and a good number of these are because its really *really* hard to design an operating system that runs in an intuitive manner with nothing but ink input. As things stand now, you can't even log into XP TE with ink. .
Anyways, its great to see alternatives for the tablet, but unless some serious dev effort is put into making Linux work with an entirely different input profile, I can't see it as real useful here.
- - - - - - - -
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This is something what MS "ink" does;o wnloads /transcriber.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/d
It doesn't take single line drawings and translate them into letters, it takes written words (in my crappy hand writing) and translates it.
There is also a version for the TabletPC.
This is the single biggest advantage that MS has over Linux in PDAs and tablets.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
I agree- the way MS has it setup by default in Tablet PC XP is ... suboptimal. Digital Ink is stupid unless the whole OS supports it- the Newton is a good example of how that can be done well. Non-ink-based HWR works fine in an OS which wasn't built around it- you draw and it makes text. You can edit the text, and the HWR software takes care of faking keystrokes. A good setup.
:)
I've used a PC with CalliGrapher/PenOffice on it and it worked pretty well. Naturally, nothing as nice as the integration that you get with an OS designed with the pen in mind from the start, but still.
Yo're not reduced to that on the tabletPC- no reason you cannot install PenOffice. I agree that you can get soft-kbs and stroke recognition on Linux that are as good as anything like that will get.
I think the lack of real HWR for Linux goes beyond just there not being many tablets. I think there is a deeper issue, although the lack of tablet-x86-ish hardware is a factor. From my discussions on a number of forums and irc channels, it seems that most Linux developers and users don't think there is any value in connected handwriting recognition. They often think that there is no psychological difference between writing a *word* just as you'd write it on paper and having the system be intelligent enough to translate that into plain-old text and picking apart each word you want to input into letters, seperating it all into the strokes which match up with them.
I am not saying there will never be real HWR for Linux, but it is likely a long way off. For one, as I mused about above, too many Linux users and developers think that real HWR is a good for nothing "Eat Up Martha." Second, real HWR that is accurate, consistent, and fast enough on semi-modern hardware isn't the easiest thing to code. It's the kind of thing people do real research on, spending a lot of man-hours developing. Not to say that kind of work isn't or hasn't been done in the OSS community- it certainly has. It just seems to be a level beyond the majority of OSS projects. Granted, a good HWR system is a level beyond most software projects in general... I hope I'm proven wrong! It may take a number of years, but I'd love to be able to have my handwriting recognizer be open source.
Ink software is something I think will come even slower. Sure, folks will probably hack something on ala Microsoft, but creating a good Ink/Text system will require the rewrite of GUI toolkits. Who knows? Perhaps we'll see a new GUI or X11 toolkit integrate this at the ground floor, and take over within a few short years...
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
My $.02: Besides just the general coolness of being able to read e-docs like you would read the newspaper or a book, my biggest use for something like this would be for all of the meetings, requirement gathering sesions, reviews, etc. I have to attend.
;-)
Something I've wanted to do for a long time is have an application or set of apps to record audio from a meeting (this thing has a built in microphone) and have a handy note pad to hand write notes on at the same time (I'm talking pages and pages of notes, diagrams, etc.). Most of the PDAs I've tried are too small for my taste and are cumbersome when taking lots of notes or don't have enough memory for the amount of audio I'd like to record (maybe with external media?). My laptop doesn't have a microphone (easy to resolve though), but my biggest issues with taking a laptop to meetings is typing on it is kind of annoying for everybody and you always have the screen between you and people across a table from you.
Obviously this could be done with M$ OS and software. But, that's where the big coolness factor comes in. Add in the shear number of *nix tools that I normally use to do other things simultaniously while in meetings on my laptop and I think it'd rock! I think I just convinced myself to buy one!
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