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Microsoft-Sony Plan: A Media-Rights Ploy?

sk8rboi writes "Missing in Wed.'s (CNet) reports about the Digital Home Working Group (DHWG) effort from âoeMicrosoft and Sony to make sure DVD players and cell phones can communicate with each other over a home wireless networkâ is the real reason for the work--it's a DRM (digital rights management) play in disguise. Look at it logically. Why would an industry alliance need to define a standard to share an MP3 file between a smart phone and a PC? According to EmbeddedWatch, the answer is, it wouldnâ(TM)t. The file can already be shared via wireless email or WiFi. And both can read the file, since both support MP3. Consumer-electronics systems and computers can already interchange all sorts of files. But what they canâ(TM)t do--and what companies like Microsoft and Sony wish they could--is regulate the transfer of such files (aka block them if theyâ(TM)ve been downloaded for free from KaZaa). (DHWG, by the way, is actually led by Intel.)"

127 comments

  1. I don't see why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft would do anything with mp3 more than is necessary. They'd much rather have people using their WMA format.

    1. Re:I don't see why by Talez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats good because the standard allows consumers to "access and share digital content" which presumably includes WMA along with MP3 and probably AAC.

      The reason I think Microsoft is involved is because of one thing. If theres a definate standard it allows Microsoft to easily build support into its OS or Media Player of the month. Look at the Camera and Scanner wizard found in Windows XP and tell me with a straight face that Microsoft isn't planning some easy to use Wireless Media Wizard.

  2. wrong by cristofer8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I disagree. It's not just for smartphones, but a way for you dvd player to talk to you pc, which, currently, it can't. Granted, it's more than likely that whatever scheme they come up with will have DRM (sony is an riaa member after all), but I don't necessarily think that the driving point is to add drm to already existing standards.

    1. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. It's not just for smartphones, but a way for you dvd player to talk to you pc, which, currently, it can't.

      My dvd player talks to my pc just fine. I'd take it back to the shop if it didn't.

    2. Re:wrong by Phishpin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't want my DVD player to talk to my PC. I want to put a disk in and watch the movie without having to boot whichever box is connected to the player.

      I also want a dedidated device for my remote control. If I lose my cell, I still want to be able to change channels. If I lose my remote, I still want to be able to make calls.

      I'm not saying that communication between devices that would really benefit shouldn't be done. But what benefit do I get from hooking the DVD player and PC together?

      I think that this "home of the future" tech simply adds complications. There's really no technological breakthrough discoveries, just some boring engineering with flashy ads (and an extra $25 on the price). If you want me to praise your technical achievements, reduce the costs while increasing ease of use without skimping features.

      This comment brought to you buy a person that has computer controlled his garage door opener for fun, despite the complete impracticallity of it.

      --
      -phish
    3. Re:wrong by MortisUmbra · · Score: 1

      RIAA member and involved with the MPAA if I recall. But in reality, I like ALOT more of what the MPAA has in mind than whan RIAA has in mind, theres hope for the MPAA yet....RIAA however is lost to us.

      --

      "The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
    4. Re:wrong by f0rt0r · · Score: 1

      If my DVD player starts talking to anyone or anything, I am going straight to my shrink to have my head checked!

      --
      I can't afford a sig!
    5. Re:wrong by korgull · · Score: 1

      why would a DVD player need to talk to my PC ?
      I simply can't find any reason why it should and if it would need that the simplest way would be to play your DVD's from a PC anyway.

  3. The more these things creep in by fr0dicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The more I'll switch to alternative media. Modern music is overproduced and boring anyway.

    1. Re:The more these things creep in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what are you going to play your beloved alternative media on...your kazoo?

    2. Re:The more these things creep in by mig0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      speaking of which.... no one was crying and whining about "rights managements" when music was sold on vinyl.

      You must've missed the whining and complaining from the recording industry about how home taping was going to destroy the record business. Thats why dual tape decks were expensive and difficult to come by even in the mid 80s.

      Just an FYI, this was essentially the same argument mouthed by the movie industry when they believed that VCRs were going to destroy them as well.

    3. Re:The more these things creep in by fr0dicus · · Score: 1

      ... crackle pop woooowooow ..... no thanks!

    4. Re:The more these things creep in by joFFeman · · Score: 1

      that just depends on exactly how 'alternative' the media in question is, i'd imagine.

      --
      "Life is great; without it, you'd be dead." -Harmony Korine
  4. wireless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Home hacking is going to be real fun. Now it's me who has the remote :D

  5. You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by sdo1 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    aka block them if theyâ(TM)ve been downloaded for free from KaZaa

    You know, even bring up Kazaa and the like only hurts the cause because (and I don't think anyone will dispute this) the vast majority of the files available on Kazaa and the like are copyrighted.

    The better tact would be to say "even if they've been downloaded from any of the hundreds of free (or pay) and legal sources of .mp3's all over net" or "if they've been ripped from CDs that you bought."

    This isn't about being able to share content downloaded from Kazaa. Oh boo-hoo, you can't play the copyrighted song that you didn't buy. The much bigger problem is the content that I paid for, was actually free, or that I have fair use rights to play. If DRM gets in the way of that, then's when I get angry.

    -S

    --
    --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    1. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by moncyb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While we're being nitpicky, I have plenty of audio files (ogg/wav/flac, not mp3. As if it makes a difference) which I never downloaded (or ripped from a CD). Nor are the copyrights owned by the RIAA--unless you think they own the birds outside my window...

      For that matter, just because a file is on Kazaa doesn't mean it's illegal RIAA child pr0n music. Kazaa isn't any different (in terms of what files will work on it) than the web, Usenet, M$'s file sharing, NFS, or any other systems which will send files across a network. Only idiots who believe the RIAA's propaganda think this.

    2. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by sdo1 · · Score: 1
      For that matter, just because a file is on Kazaa doesn't mean it's illegal

      Did you even read what I wrote? I never said that. But you can't possibly deny that that the vast majority of files available on Kazaa are "illegal" (illegal, by the definition I'm using here, are files where the copyright holder does not necessarily want them sahred). It's just that crying "waaah... I don't want DRM on this file I downloaded off of Kazaa" isn't anywhere near as convincing an argument as mentioning how DRM might mess up fair use rights on content that I legally have a right to copy.

      -S

      --
      --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    3. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by moncyb · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I read what you wrote. It was obviously with the assumption all files on Kazaa must be illegal, so Kazaa should be illegal. Similar things could be said about the VCR. A lot of people use them to copy movies too. Would you like it if someone called you a criminal because you have a VCR? Just insert your favorite brand of VCR where you wrote "Kazaa", and you'll see how stupid it is.

      This is exactly why legitimate uses have stayed away from P2P systems. Too many idiots lumping everyone into the same group and trying to get P2P developers and users arrested/sued. Stop the smear campaign.

    4. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      Kazaa isn't any different (in terms of what files will work on it) than the web, Usenet, M$'s file sharing, NFS, or any other systems which will send files across a network.

      Yes, but if I want to put something legal out on the net, Kazaa is an inefficent, unreliable way to do so. With rare exceptions, placing them on the web makes them easier to find and reliably findable, no matter where you and the searcher are on the net. The biggest use for Kazaa is for stuff that would quickly get you threatened with a copyright infringement suit.

    5. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by sdo1 · · Score: 1
      It was obviously with the assumption all files on Kazaa must be illegal, so Kazaa should be illegal.

      You're REALLY reaching. Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said such things. But, Kazaa has (in the public eye) a rather negative connotation as far as sharing of copyrighted files. So if you'll go back and read the original article it said "But what they canâ(TM)t do--and what companies like Microsoft and Sony wish they could--is regulate the transfer of such files (aka block them if theyâ(TM)ve been downloaded for free from KaZaa)."

      That's what I took issue with. Not that the statment was in any way wrong. It's not. It's just that bringing up Kazaa or any other P2P program isn't the point. Protecting fair use rights IS the point, and that INCLUDES being able to use Kazaa or any other P2P program in the exercise of that right. It makes more sense when trying to convice companies, lawmakers, and the public at large to simply state the case about fair use rights rather than defending any particular P2P program.

      -S

      --
      --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    6. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by moncyb · · Score: 1

      Yeah, assuming you have the money to pay for a site and the huge bandwidth bills if your file becomes popular. Not everyone who publishes a file on the internet is a millionare.

    7. Re:You can leave junk like Kazaa out of this by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      Not everyone who publishes a file on the internet is a millionare.

      Not everyone who publishes a file on the Web is a millionare, either. Unless you're uploading large files (and I don't mean legal software, as there's many places to upload that), there's free sites for that. Perhaps Kazaa is an effective site to upload home-grown music, but if you don't have that website, no one will ever know about it, and if you don't have the songs on your website, half your audience will never listen.

  6. You answered your own question by no+reason+to+be+here · · Score: 4, Insightful

    [I don't see why] Microsoft would do anything with mp3 more than is necessary. They'd much rather have people using their WMA format.

    exactly.

    anything that makes MP3 less convenient for people in M$'s mind is a good thing. time to start pushing ogg to your friends and neighbors.

    1. Re:You answered your own question by GodlikeDoglike · · Score: 1

      Why? THen the attention will just be shifted there. Maybe instead of making plans to deal with aftermath, we should think of ways to prevent the problem.

  7. I dont get it... by angst7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At the risk of sounding like I've missed the clue-train. Can someone please remind me of why I want to use a smart-phone (whatever that is) to move my mp3s around? I pretty much use my cell phone for, you know, calling people.

    ---
    Jedimom.com, that not-so-fresh feeling.

    --
    StrategyTalk.com, PC Game Forums
    1. Re:I dont get it... by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      "Let me put you on hold a minute, Mom..."

      *click*

      "SMACK MY BITCH UP! SMACK MY BITCH UP!"

      I want one.

    2. Re:I dont get it... by ihatesco · · Score: 1
      At the risk of sounding like I've missed the clue-train. Can someone please remind me of why I want to use a smart-phone (whatever that is) to move my mp3s around? I pretty much use my cell phone for, you know, calling people.

      You may not see the need of it, but a cellphone (smartphone or not) is a kind of technology with which people is already friendly. A normal PDA isn't, is still a stranger in that respect.

      But you wouldn't use it only to move mp3s, but to complement your PC capabilities.

      The other side of the story could be (and I underline the "could be" part, you never know where standards where Microsoft is in go when they are inked down) a universal standard to have different PCs and different devices talking, so your (new) Ipod will talk to your (new) dvd-player and to your PC as well.

      A really good way to transfer personal notes, reminders, trade business cards...

      I only hope that these things will come pre-configured to avoid to be used as open http:// proxies, or for ping attacks and the like >_ You know...
      One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

      And now, imagine a beowulf cluster of smartphones!

      --
      "I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
    3. Re:I dont get it... by Mr.Ned · · Score: 1

      You might not want to use your smart-phone-thingie to _move_ your mp3s around, but if you're around the house or at a job in a situation where you'd want music, why not stream it? It's like combining the walkie-talkies and cell phones, and like putting a contact list on your mp3 player.

  8. I hate the idea of DRM I can't control, but... by chundo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...the EmbeddedWatch article is just a little paranoid. While I have no doubt that the companies with interest in this group wish to push DRM technologies, there is a second very legitimate reason to have such a group. And it's spelled out very clearly in the CNet article - working together to create communication standards. EmbeddedWatch shouts, "Just use Wi-Fi!". But how did WiFi come to be popular? Only after millions of dollars in wasted R&D for other technologies that didn't pan out (HomeRF is mentioned). This group will allow companies to communicate during the R&D phase, and ideally agree on a standard before investing millions of dollars in incompatible (and competing) ones. Be skeptical if you want, but don't cry wolf and immediately delcare the entire purpose of the group to subversively destroy our media rights.

    -j

    1. Re:I hate the idea of DRM I can't control, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh...Is this why Microsoft, themselves, are breaking standards? Sure a company doesnt want to spend millions on a technology that doesnt 'pan' out. But this is just another way for corporates getting what they want and how they want it done. Microsoft has be known for causing incompatibilities in existing standards. Its companies like them that exploit the current business model which will end up FUCKING THINGS UP alot for the economy, how people think, the progress our society makes and such. I hope these corporate assholes goto HELL!!

    2. Re:I hate the idea of DRM I can't control, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Companies have no interest in creating free standards, they have traditionally profited from proprietary standards.

    3. Re:I hate the idea of DRM I can't control, but... by Vaughn+Anderson · · Score: 1

      I think you may be missing a big link here.

      1. Anyone can call your cell phone.

      2. If your cell phone is a computer without a firewall then they can access your phone without permission via a handy EULA.

      3. Via the latest tech (DVD/PC/Phone connections) They just hop to your DVD player, check your playlist, check your computer (as WinXP has been building a nice little "possible copyright infringement list" of items played.) get the list..

      4. Send the list back to MS, SONY, Intel (got an overclocked CPU?), MPAA, RIAA, [Insert any software company here that wants to know if you have copied software on your machine], etc...

      5. Sell this service to the BSA or whomever wants to dig around in your computer...

      It's just another way for them to collect this info for lawsuits later...

    4. Re:I hate the idea of DRM I can't control, but... by chundo · · Score: 1

      And it's also highly illegal without a search warrant, and thus either 1) subject to criminal prosecution if done by corporate entities, or 2) inadmissable in a court of law if done by law enforcement. Anything else is like saying trespassing isn't illegal if you don't lock your door. Any EULA that specifically allows this type of action won't stand up in court, not to mention that once the ACLU finds out about it, they'll raise such a racket that the PR will force any company advocating the said EULA will have to back down or face boycotts.

      Although the next iteration of Patriot Acts could change all that.

      -j

    5. Re:I hate the idea of DRM I can't control, but... by Vaughn+Anderson · · Score: 1

      perhaps, but the FBI just got powers to hack P2P, why would this be any different?

      -v

  9. This season's slashdot fashion news... by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tin foil hats are in, gentoo tshirts are in, microsoft tshirts are out.

    At least Microsoft won't have to worry about running out at Comdex ;o)

    --
    Beep beep.
    1. Re:This season's slashdot fashion news... by moncyb · · Score: 2, Funny

      M$ will run out. A fair group of Linux chicks will descend upon them and use the shirts to wipe their asses. It will be quite a spectacle to see!

    2. Re:This season's slashdot fashion news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html Remember to put the shiny side out!

    3. Re:This season's slashdot fashion news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're a fuckin idiot

  10. Astroturfing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think Slashdot should make it a little more obvious when the person posting an article doesn't have a Slashdot account (thus allowing readers to check the posting history of the the article submitters). I mean, having the words media rights and digital rights management in the the article is a tipoff there. DRM = digital restrictions management

  11. etheral software? by robslimo · · Score: 1

    While Microsoft, which makes etheral software...

    Umm... what is "etheral" software? Did the article mean to say "ethereal"? If so, I still don't understand. Whether you like it/them or not, Microsoft's software products do, um, tangible things.

    Perhaps the author meant to use the word ethereal as applied to software in general not being a physical product such as phones and access points and DVD players?

    1. Re:etheral software? by Jodaxia · · Score: 1

      Whether you like it/them or not, Microsoft's software products do, um, tangible things.

      I'm not sure MS's products do tangible things, why is it when I sneeze around any computer running MS ME that it crashes. This is INTANGABLE to my brain that a OS could be made so poorly that if i disrupt the speed of the air around the computer with a sneeze, it crashes. Or maybe it doesn't like me, I'm bad mojo or something.

      --
      crowbar??
  12. Re:Seriously people....get off it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On a side note, I just realized that windows media 9 kicks ass. If you go to amazon to listen to a song off a cd, listen to it in windows media, then real player. There's no comparison.

    If you listen to the two side by side then that would be a comparison. If there isn't a comparison then I don't understand what you're trying to do.

  13. ploy? by chunkwhite86 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ploy shmoy. These guys are our friends arent they?? They are just trying to help us by giving us new and innovative technology!! This is so wonderful!


    *ARGH!* Stop throwing things at me! *OUCH!* I was just joking, *ACK!* I swear!

    --
    I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
  14. With i-link and hpnp... by rusty0101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would suspect that Sony and Microsoft both think they have interconnectivity options available. The question really should be what advantage will either, or both see as a result of this.

    Sony is a very divers company, with quite a bit of infighting. The Music side of the business (which may be hemoraging money shortly) hates the idea of any of the other product lines (mostly hardware) having the capability of handling MP3 files in any form.

    Something tells me that most of the MD players out there have a firmware update waiting in the wings that will turn on their ability to play MP3 files, significantly boosting the marketability of the player. (Do you know of a lot of MP3 players of any capacity that will run continuously for 50+ hours on a single AA battery?)

    Since I have not been actively looking for a DVD player lately, I do not know if they are meeting the market demands of playing CD's with MP3 files on them. With the exception of the $300 devices, I am not sure that there are many competitors making players without this feature.

    One of the options that Sony could be doing with their DVD players is something HP and others have been doing with stand-alone media centers. It is trivial to implement on a PS2 with the Linux kit, but would be cheaper to implement in an otherwise stand alone dvd player. All the hardware is there to play MP3, almost all Sony media devices have i-link capability so there should be nothing preventing the dvd player from streaming audio from a pc, or with a QNX os, be able to mount shared media folders and run slideshows while playing music, or possibly play video. (Though to play Divx/mpeg4 might be beyond the standard hardware in a dvd player.

    From what I have seen as the capabilities of Sony H/W engineers, I strongly suspect that the submitter is correct, this is a ploy to get DRM distributed within the house.

    Might be a pain to go to the store, pick up a copy of MIIB only to find out that fan site for ST-V that you are hosting on your home system disallows you from watching the movie. (as an example)

    Then again, this is my observations and thoughts.

    -Rusty

    --
    You never know...
    1. Re:With i-link and hpnp... by multi+io · · Score: 1
      All the hardware is there to play MP3, almost all Sony media devices have i-link capability so there should be nothing preventing the dvd player from streaming audio from a pc, or with a QNX os, be able to mount shared media folders and run slideshows while playing music, or possibly play video.

      iLink (aka IEEE-1394) is a layer 0 protocol. How can it be used directly for "streaming audio from a pc, or with a QNX os, be able to mount shared media folders and run slideshows while playing music, or possibly play video."?

    2. Re:With i-link and hpnp... by rusty0101 · · Score: 1

      i-link is capable of being used as a network transport, which USB does not natively support. You can currently link up two mac laptops via firewire and no other network interfaces, and exchange data/mount folders, etc. In other words the capability is there.

      It may require more work to be implemented, but I suspect that you could link an iBook to a Vaio via the respective firewire iLInk interfaces. (Though not having tried this, I don't know.)

      -Rusty

      --
      You never know...
    3. Re:With i-link and hpnp... by multi+io · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You can currently link up two mac laptops via firewire and no other network interfaces, and exchange data/mount folders, etc. In other words the capability is there.

      But I assume iLink only provides the physical connection, the "exchange data/mount folders, etc." stuff is handled by higher-level protocols (AppleTalk?). To make your stereo browse folders and stream MP3 files from your PC, you would need such higher-level protocols too.

      OTOH, I'm wondering whether there are technical reasons why companies can't just settle on "WebDAV over Wi-Fi" or something equivalent instead of inventing whole new protocol stacks.

    4. Re:With i-link and hpnp... by moncyb · · Score: 1

      Since I have not been actively looking for a DVD player lately, I do not know if they are meeting the market demands of playing CD's with MP3 files on them. With the exception of the $300 devices, I am not sure that there are many competitors making players without this feature.

      My cheapo sub $100(US) Koss A/V DVD player has this feature. Bought it a few months ago. It even has a little dialog box to browse the files. Not very well designed, but it seems to work.

      DVDs need the hardware decoder chips anyway and have microcontrollers/processors, so I doubt it added to the cost. The only reason they wouldn't have such a feature would be because of the DVD Copy Control Association. I wouldn't be surprised if the peckers refused to license players with such features...

      As an aside, anyone looking for a DVD player may not want to buy a Koss A/V one. Mine has power problems, and looking at posts on the internet, others have too. My first one died. They replaced it, but still a hassle. The woman at the store said about half of them have been returned. My current one has probably only lasted this long because I pull out the plug when I'm not using it. Koss A/V isn't even a part of the speaker company Koss, they just licensed the name. Maybe this was just a fluke mistake, but I don't trust Koss AV to make decent products anymore.

      I bet with an ethernet port and a firmware upgrade, many DVD players could browse a filesystem of mp3s and read m3u playlists just fine. There are many protocols to choose from (HTTP, NFS, & etc). HTTP will work just fine, and is very common. I don't see why they can't do this. I don't see why any new "standard" needs to be developed.

    5. Re:With i-link and hpnp... by Chemical · · Score: 1
      First, Sony already has an MP3 ready MiniDisc player. Check it out.

      But unfortunatly all Sony portable "mp3 players" are not really MP3 players. They all require you to re-encode the files into Sony's proprietary, DRM locked format, ATRAC3. And you have to use their crappy software too. And files must be checked in and checked out so you can't have them on more than one device at a time.
      No thanks, Sony.

  15. How about automatic interoperability? by boer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Why would an industry alliance need to define a standard to share an MP3 file between a smart phone and a PC?"

    Well how about for automatic media file discovery and interoperability between appliances? Or should all interop development be left for Apple while the rest of us go for closed source file transfer utilities and closed protocols that probably aren't supported on ones favourite OS?

    --
    (This sig intentionally left blank)
    1. Re:How about automatic interoperability? by mccalli · · Score: 1
      >>hy would an industry alliance need to define a standard to share an MP3?
      Well how about for automatic media file discovery and interoperability between appliances?

      At the time of writing this comment, so far yours is the only one that seems to understand what is being discussed. To elaborate on the point:

      OK, I have an MP3 file sitting on my hard disc. Your connecting device needs to know:

      1. That another device is available which understands the same protocol
      2. That the other device contains music
      3. That the music contained is this particular MP3 file
      4. That the MP3 file is allowed to be copied over

      Without industry-supported protocols, that's impossible. Think UDDI, or as the parent suggested Apple's Rendevouz wrapper. These are the kind of things under discussion - merely having an MP3 on some device doesn't automatically make it available to another device.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:How about automatic interoperability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot

      5) Must remain unhasselled by RIAA.

      it's a big point, and the reason why DRM will be mandated, despite what Sony Electronics want.

  16. You can leave copyright out of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because something is copyrighted doesn't mean it's illegal to download. I can release a song or a program, and set the terms of the copyright to anything I want.

  17. The most interesting part of the article... by ihatesco · · Score: 5, Interesting
    is this image

    If I am not mistaken, barring the device discovery and control part, everything is already known, has a widely known standard, and is already interoperable. With the exception of DRM which is marked as "Proprietary/Vertical". Will that mean that Sony DRM stuff (which will work on a Montavista Linux Based platform will not be displayed on my Longhorn PC? That's crazy.

    And what if this become a "standard" like Motif or CDE? (Yeah, a bloated, cumbersome standard, that Micrsoft will replace with something suited for her whims instead)

    And free content will be able to circulate between one system and the other? Oh, yeah...

    I can envision the chaos that will occur when I will be able to rip the movies from one of the n competing DRM technologies.

    Everyone will be posting torrents on /, (slashcomma) with downloads to the "easy-do-it-all-crack-o-rama" program, and then will be out renting DRM "X" standard technology in order to spread the content between pcs, cellphones, and their taiwanese blueray players.

    + + + +
    HTTP enabled phone. Why I suddenly foresee http://4g.goatse.cx (don't follow that link even if it doesn't work) for the future cellphones?

    --
    "I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
  18. things i'd love by zakezuke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd love it if my DVD player had on it WiFi or ethernet. I already have cat5 runs and would enjoy output of my computer in the form of media files on my TV, which I already enjoy over analog cable. This in a way makes sence, the fact that a DVD player is just a glorified mpeg decoder, it would be the next logical step having it act as essentally a networked video card. WiFi ability would just be icing on the cake in this sorta setup.

    And it's also not like people like my self wouldn't enjoy this ability, which makes a fair amount of sence, to extend to mobile phones and PDAs. It seems the next logical step in home entertainment, being able for your friend to come over to your pad and share his snapshots directly from their handheld device directly to your TV. Or even a .mp3 file.

    These things make sence and are very marketable ideas. Hell, i'd buy a networkable DVD player.

    But I think perhaps with the shadow of DRM that we should reserve implementations of these technologies to OSS. It's already been demonstrated by microsoft they are experimenting with "phone home for authorization" technologies and this just has far too much bad mojo. The last thing we need are remote enforcable EULAs.

    --
    There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    1. Re:things i'd love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say:

      "being able for your friend to come over to your pad and share his snapshots directly from their handheld device directly to your TV"

      Already exists, think compact flash. Plenty of the new TVs have a built in compact flash reader.

      My TV has a reader, my camera has one, my computer has one, and so on...

      I swap between devices all the time using those little chips. The chips are generic, fairly durable, and most importantly don't restrict my options, I can put whatever I want on them, assuming it fits.

      What's the point in hassling with wireless connections that just don't seem to work right or heaven forbid connecting a whole other set of wires, just plug in a chip like I do....

    2. Re:things i'd love by zakezuke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Already exists, think compact flash. Plenty of the new TVs have a built in compact flash reader

      Last time I checked there were a number of compact solid state media types and no assurances that one handheld device use the same form of media as another hand held device. There is also no assurance that physical media will continue to be popular. Let's face it, zip and super disks were popular once and still are to some degree. Let's say you invested in a TV with the ability to read files from a 120meg zip disk. This would have been most spiffy in many ways, but pretty damn useless now as most people with cameras and handhelds use solid state storage. I have to admit part of the reason I bought my printer was because it took 3 solid state media types.

      The point of hassling with wire or wireless connections is electronic compliance without worry of the physical complience to media. Let's say hypotheticly either your TV or your DVD player had onboard ethernet, and the ability to accept a video streem from a remote device. Even with wire based ethernet it opens up a wonderful world of just one freaking wire to your media center per device. Don't want a rat's nest behind your entertainment center, no problem. Shotty video cables eliminated, ground loops a thing of the past, and a little bit of digital convergence.

      Run out of ports, get a freaking hub. Jack into the wall, jack into the center, doesn't freaking matter anymore.

      I see exactly where you are comming from with the hassle. However, i've just spent 4 hours in the attic routing speaker wires so I can move my audio entertainment center to the kitchen and make more space for the video center, yet have them still be connected. Even wire based ethernet would have been a godsend, would have been NO need to put in all that extra work just to add essentally two wires.

      As far as your TV, great! I personaly prefer my smart shit outside my TV. In the past 20 years we've seen VHS / Beta / VCD / VideoCD / 5 or so acronyms for solid state media. I don't want my TV to accept media, I prefer external media readers. Why upgrade my TV set just to play media when ya can buy sub $100 Vcr / DVD. Not that it isn't cool, I just don't want to upgrade my TV everytime a new media standard comes out. I'd rather upgrade outside the tube, but that's just personal choice. You might not want extra wires or the extra space required, and that's cool too.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  19. Re:Seriously people....get off it by chunkwhite86 · · Score: 4, Informative

    On a side note, I just realized that windows media 9 kicks ass. If you go to amazon to listen to a song off a cd, listen to it in windows media, then real player. There's no comparison. If you listen to the two side by side then that would be a comparison. If there isn't a comparison then I don't understand what you're trying to do.

    Actually, WMA doesn't kick ass.

    We already have proven that OGG kicks WMA and MP3's ass.

    --
    I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
  20. Re:Seriously people....get off it by skaeight · · Score: 0

    um yeah thats exactly what it is. Amazon has two options to listen to songs, windows media or realplayer. Try it for your self. There's a huge difference.

    One addition to my first post. I'm still using mostly GPL software. Mozilla, gaim, gimp, cdex. I just don't have any desire to mess with linux anymore when I can use the same apps in windows xp, "which just works."

  21. Wolfe paranoid? Say it ain't so! by Keith+Russell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Alexander Wolfe's EmbeddedWatch.com has just dropped somewhere below the Inquirer on the credibility scale. First, Wolfe claims that a few piddly Microsoft patents cover the entirety of digital video-on-demand. Now, he sees Microsoft and Sony in the same working group, and concludes that it must be a DRM scheme that will retroactively lock down every file on your system.

    Note to Timothy: You are being TROLLED! For free publicity, apparently. How else could you explain this block at the top of EmbeddedWatch's front page?

    Don't forget to read "Microsoft gets video-on-demand patent", our still-hot story, which has over 100,000 hits and links on Microsoft-Watch and Slashdot.
    --
    This sig intentionally left blank.
    1. Re:Wolfe paranoid? Say it ain't so! by Czernobog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is sinister and lowly, but have you thought the chance of this being a paid for article?
      I remember reading a certain post about it, not too long ago.

      --
      /. Where the truth
    2. Re:Wolfe paranoid? Say it ain't so! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what do you mean paid for? Unfortunately, no one pays me anything to do the site. (However, I;ll gladly accept some money, if you want to send me some.)--awolfe@embedded-watch.com

  22. DRM is ok by me by pstreck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First off I'd like to make a point to say that I support DRM. I support it if it keeps people from doing something illegal, ie. downloading movies, music and software for that matter that is copyrighted without paying for it. There is nothing wrong with that. The only problem I do have with DRM is if it prevents me from using the media that I have acquired legally, that pisses me off.

    Next, we do need a standard so that mulitple devices can talk to one another over a wired or wireless network to share media files. You call e-mail a way to do this. Sure it works, but it's cumbersome and barbaric. What I want is the abillity to turn on my set top box connect to my pc, and stream some music to the whole house. Anyways, the point is that we do need proper protocols for this kind of thing, sometimes I think people scream wolf way to much.

    --

    Later,
    Phil
    1. Re:DRM is ok by me by zakezuke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing about DRM I do not support is that whole need a computer based authorization in order to play media. What is to stop a media giant from changing the terms on our media. Before you say it can't be done, look at all the annoyance with SCO and their attempt to revoke their contracts. With DRM a company like SCO would have the power to shut off access to material we bought in good faith.

      Good gawd, now i'm starting to understand why people like physical books, hard to revoke a license on a book.

      As far as the piracy thing goes, i've ALWAYS been an advocate of a little piracy. Works like word of mouth advertising. If you disagree with this form of media propigation, then I guess you never visited a local library. While they are not pirates in the conventional sence, they do allow multiable people access to media.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    2. Re:DRM is ok by me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "we do need a standard so that mulitple devices can talk to one another over a wired or wirel....."

      We already have them, they are called cat 5 and speaker wire.

      Run some cat five from your main pc to a slave pc running linux sitting on top of your reciever.

      Run cat 5 where-ever else you need it as well. Set up unix boxes as clients on the ends of all those wires.

      Note that: Unix is a very powerful OS for sharing files, cat 5 is very reliable and well thought out at this point, stereos in some sense have practically been around since the advent of recorded sound.

      Take the client pc and run a video out from a decent video card to your decent tv/monitor.

      Run RCAs, optical, whatever, wires from your client PCs sound card out to your reciever.

      Run the speaker wires to all rooms of your home.

      Problem solved using off the shelf components.

      There seems to be a lot of people moaning and groaning about stuff that already exists, I see nothing anyone has been suggesting that they can't go buy today.

    3. Re:DRM is ok by me by jorlando · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "The only problem I do have with DRM is if it prevents me from using the media that I have acquired legally, that pisses me off."

      And who said that part is of concern when some company starts to draw a DRM specification? Remember DIVX (the DVD-like standard from Circuit City, not the decoder)? Pay 10 to watch a movie for 48 hours, 30 to own it and watch ONLY in your DIVX player (good, heh? you own it but can't take it to your friends house to watch with them... just like your VHS, records and CD... ops... none are like this? well... bad for YOU)

      And the best part that was never addressed... and when I buy a new DIVX player? What happens? Well.. YOUR problem...

      Nobody is thinking in fair use or consumer rights... as a consumer you are either a drone that must always buy new media, no matter what crap is up in the moment, no matter if you have a job or not... if you don't buy you are a thief, since you don't buy music, or movies you must be thieving it... with some kind of p2p... you are not allowed not to buy, since it would lead to a sales decrease, and sales decrease only happens due thieves using some scheme to steal the music.

      I was looking the website of the Brazilian equivalent of RIAA and guess what they discovered?

      Every region of the world that CD sales decreased are pirate ridden! Latin America had a decrease of 20% in the last five years... who's the culprit? pirates! internet and p2p! vevermind that the region is going down the hole... 20% of unemployement rate in Brazil, that or more in Argentina, Venezuela 30%... and the list goes on... not a single moron in these RIAA-like institutes thought that maybe when people don't have jobs they don't buy cd's!

      England had a sales increase... due what? a good campaign on piracy and lowered prices... Japan? the same... hmmmm maybe the higher prices have something with lower sales? We had campaigns against piracy all over the world... Naahhhh... to easy! Is the fucking pirates!

    4. Re:DRM is ok by me by Alsee · · Score: 1

      First off I'd like to make a point to say that I support cutting people's hands off. I support it if it keeps people from doing something illegal, ie. shoplifting, or picking people's pockets. There is nothing wrong with that. The only problem I do have with cutting people's hands off is if it prevents me from playing the piano that I have acquired legally, that pisses me off.

      The only way to "enforce" DRM is to make it a crime to decrypt, as the DMCA does. However ANY method a computer uses to descramble DRM can be used by a human brain. You can "run" any program simply by thinking through each line of the program step by step. If it is a crime to circumvent DRM then you have to put me in prison for sitting motionless and thinking certain thoughts.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:DRM is ok by me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brazil, Agentina and Venezuela all have fucked economies. Just talk to people who live there.

      Japan, England, US? While we may say our economies are fucked, we're not even close to Latin America.

  23. Conspiracy Theory 101 by bj8rn · · Score: 1

    If you know that something is true (let's say, "Bill Gates wants to rule the world"), then everything is a proof.

    --
    Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
  24. It's just not right(s).... by tha_mink · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What's the big deal even if it *is* a ploy to lock down copyrighted material? You should all know that it's comming. The RIAA will get control of their property eventually. That's why they exist. And why shouldn't they? It would be like complaining about people inventing new locks to prevent break-ins and people saying..."This is the *man* trying to keep me out of my neighbors house." well yeah....

    Get used to the fact that peoples property is peoples property and they will fight to keep it that way. So, download while you can kids.

    --
    You'll have that sometimes...
    1. Re:It's just not right(s).... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who gives a fuck? they have avril, britney, radiohead & eminem- and let them keep them. nobody with good taste in music gives a fuck about the RIAA.

    2. Re:It's just not right(s).... by tha_mink · · Score: 1

      and let them keep them. nobody with good taste in music gives a fuck about the RIAA.

      Like you I guess eh? You don't give a "fuck" about the RIAA? You have _good_ taste in music?

      --
      You'll have that sometimes...
  25. The more these things creep in by harriet+nyborg · · Score: 1
    The more these things creep in...the more they look like vinyl.

    speaking of which.... no one was crying and whining about "rights managements" when music was sold on vinyl.

    back in the day when vinyl LPs could only be played on "record players" - and file sharing was loaning your copy of dark side of the moon to your friend who just bought a new tape deck - music was cheap and good.

    no one was pissing in their beer complaining that they couldn't press their own LPs.

    no one was whining that making imperfect copies on tape was an evil plot by the RIAA.

    but now that the format is digital - and the possibility exists to make perfect copies and share them with thousands of people you don't even know - somehow people got the strange notion that copyright holders trying to protect themselves from copying is tramping on consumer rights.

    bring back vinyl!

    cleaning reefer on CD covers never worked very well anyway.....

  26. English, do you speak it? by blowdart · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Microsoft and Sony to make sure DVD players and cell phones can communicate with each other over a home wireless network

    Way to go. Lets look at CNet's article. It states

    set to unveil a joint effort to make sure that their products--from computers to DVD players to cell phone

    Note this doesn't limit the communication to swapping between phones and DVDs as the article author seems to think. Note the slashdot article seems to leave out the computers part of the CNet article. Add that back in, and what do you have? A standard protocol for your home devices, computers, Pocket PCs, Palms, mobile phones, printers to swap files.

    Lets now look at the example use given in the Cnet article

    people would be able to play digital audio on their living-room stereo even though the music files themselves are stored on a computer in the den.

    Sounds useful doesn't it? Does it sound like extending DRM? Probably note, especially as Microsoft and Sony each have their own DRM technologies.

    The slashdot "article" justifies itself by pretending

    The file can already be shared via wireless email or WiFi

    Really? I don't know of a common mobile phone with WiFi, or a home stereo system, or a DVD. Strange, I don't have an email option on my stero.

    I wish you could moderate slashdot parent articles, this one is either a Troll or Flamebait. Nice lack of checking even the CNet article Timothy.

    1. Re:English, do you speak it? by fr0dicus · · Score: 0, Troll
      Sounds useful doesn't it? Does it sound like extending DRM? Probably note, especially as Microsoft and Sony each have their own DRM technologies.

      Didn't your mother ever teach you two wrongs don't make a right? ;)

    2. Re:English, do you speak it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First thing: the "computers" wording in the pull from the first sentence of the CNet article was left out because a) the slashdot submission was getting too long, and b) "computers" is implicit and understood (what the heck is pretty much everything we're talking abt on slashdot? duh!).
      Second thing: the authoritative source material to settle any questions/arguments relating to this stuff is NOT the CNet article, it's the Intel material (marketing stuff, white papers, etc.) relating to the DHWG effort. The Intel stuff is at: http://developer.intel.com/technology/digitalhome/

  27. DHWG, by the way, is actually led by Intel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or why I will allways run AMD.

  28. Choo choo!? by bj8rn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article says nothing about using your smartphone to move your mp3's around (CNet doesn't mention mp3's at all). It says something about letting your smartphone communicate with your computer (or DVD-player, toaster, whatever). Maybe you can record your phonecalls and easily transfer them to the computer this way?

    --
    Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
    1. Re:Choo choo!? by ihatesco · · Score: 1
      This is scary -_-;

      Imagine somebody recording your phonecall and posting it on the web to make the fool out of you... suddenly 12yro's phone pranks and blackmail got a brand new sense -_-;

      Also...
      Imagine a cluster of perverts posting directly on bbs the pics they snatch from showers, toilets...

      "Hey, mom! It's you on Internet!"
      "Oh my god! That's my company changing room!"

      If I was Intel PR I would call this "Project Pandora"... a good nickname for the project, along of the lines of "Palladium" for Microsoft DRM.
      (And in the myth of Iliad, the Palladium didn't prevent Ajax to do really really nasty things to Cassandra when she tried to take cover at the feet of the statue of Pallas Athena).

      --
      "I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
    2. Re:Choo choo!? by Coniptor · · Score: 1

      Or maybe it's a way for them to sell you a dvd player and smart phone that work together to scream blody murder and phone home when ever you play content the devices flag as unpaid for or what ever lame reason they want to claim your doing wrong by them this time.

  29. Re:Conclusion Jumping 101 by KU_Fletch · · Score: 1

    Yeah, we'll just go on Microsoft's long standing reputation of fair business practices, looking out for consumers, and sense of right and wrong. Oh... wait...

    --
    It's not stupid. It's advanced.
  30. Fair Use Rights by chmilar · · Score: 5, Interesting
    For me, it comes down to one thing:

    If I feel that some media or player has the potential to "rip me off" by restricting my fair use rights, I will avoid it. I don't want to pay for a song or movie, and then be restricted from using it in a reasonable fashion.

    Since all current Digital Restrictions Management schemes do not guarantee my fair use rights, I will not subscribe to any of them. I would rather "go without" the media than put up with this crap.

    --
    Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
  31. Microsoft: "The Master of None" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wouldnt it be great if Microsoft actually focused on just one thing, their OS and maybe trustworthy computing? Instead of making life miserable for the rest of us?

    1. Re:Microsoft: "The Master of None" by chmilar · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This is part of "trustworthy computing", which is more accurately called "we don't trust you computing".

      Trustworthy computing is Microsoft's attempt to embed Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) into the Longhorn OS.

      --
      Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
  32. Duh by Zeromous · · Score: 0, Troll

    This is some sort of revelation?

    --
    ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
  33. DIE KARMA, DIE! by iamdrscience · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think it's really strange that anything that promotes DRM is an evil PLOY to steal our rights. I mean, I'm just as paranoid, anti-Microsoft, zealot etc. as the next guy on Slashdot, but I mean come on, it's not like DRM is an inherently evil idea, there IS an arguement for it. I disagree with the arguement but DRM isn't nearly the proven evil of other things.

    *cue "you must me new to Slashdot" comments and moderators ignoring or modding down my comment*

    1. Re:DIE KARMA, DIE! by iamdrscience · · Score: 1

      Ha, that was the other possibility, that people would just read the subject line and not the post and think "troll". I fucking hate slashdot.

    2. Re:DIE KARMA, DIE! by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

      I think the name says it all - Digital Rights Management is obvious marketing to the masses. Digital Restrictions Management is a better name.

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    3. Re:DIE KARMA, DIE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, the term "Digital Rights Management" is also clearly about managing the "rights" of the producer, not of the consumer.

  34. A Ploy between Inhell and Micro$oft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sk8rboi writes "Missing in Wed.'s (CNet) reports about the Digital Home Working Group (DHWG) effort from âoeMicrosoft and Sony to make sure DVD players and cell phones can communicate with each other over a home wireless network

    (DHWG, by the way, is actually led by Intel

    Also, could this also be a ploy between Micro$oft and Inhell to control everything that has to do with computers and home electronics, you know as in the old saying "We'll scratch your back if you'll scratch ours"?

    in other words Micro$oft blocks out non-inhell processors if Inhell Modifies their processor to only allow Micro$oft code? I woudn't put it past those two Monopolists. "and don't say anything about them getting in trouble with Anti-Trust Laws, because Dubya's almost Neutralized the Anti-Trust division of the Department of Justice"

  35. Fair Use Rights by chmilar · · Score: 1
    The problem is that, right now, the Digital Restrictions Management schemes are stacked in favor of the media "owners". Most schemes restrict your rights, as the "consumer", far more than Copyright Law stipulates.

    No DRM scheme specifies any "fair use" guarantees to the consumer.

    There is no law that guarantees the consumer's fair use rights.

    --
    Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
  36. this is stupid by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole article is stupid. What the hell would my cell phone have to do with my DVD player or MP3's in my living room??

    You know, here's two things.
    1. The music that I listen to is NOT under the control of ANY of the RIAA crowd, in any shape, form or fashion. They have ZERO claim on the music I listen to, they will NEVER have claim to it or be allowed to lay claim to or control it. The artists that I listen to have sworn to that.

    2. I just ran cat5 everywhere in the house. I have a box full of my music in the computer room and it runs GnuMP3d (get it at freshmeat).
    I have an *OLD* PC in the garage running Damn Small Linux (a Knoppix knock off, get it at ibiblio) with a sound card and speakers. I can go work on stuff in the garage and browse to the page created by GnuMP3d, with a few clicks I'm listening to my favorite music as I work. A full entertainment center in my garage. I rescued the PC from a trash pile, cleaned it up and made use of it. It was free. It cost me ZIP...

    I've got some old Packard Bell desktop boxes too that lay flat. They cost me ZIP also.. I'm going to paint one black and slide it in with my AV equipment as an MP3 receiver, just like in my garage.

    And for video, I plan to pick up a used Xbox soon for about $150 and turn it into a PVR. I've already got housewide satellite and AV wires run. I can control the AV center in my living room from any room in the house.

    I want to know why I should throw all this out and replace it with M$, RIAA and MPAA approved equipment???

    1. Re:this is stupid by konmaskisin · · Score: 1

      "I want to know why I should throw all this out and replace it with M$, RIAA and MPAA approved equipment???"

      Because they will be coming to get you soon ... the knowledge you have (to set up such a system) will be criminalized and new media content will be unplayable on your equipment.

  37. And how should it talk to your PC? by metalhed77 · · Score: 1

    Regardless, we can be assured that DRM will be added to this.

    --
    Photos.
  38. Re:Conclusion Jumping 101 by shaitand · · Score: 1

    Don't forget sony, sony is as evil as microsoft and then some, they just aren't as successful.

  39. Re:Seriously people....get off it by Rassleholic · · Score: 1

    On a side note, I just realized that windows media 9 kicks ass. If you go to amazon to listen to a song off a cd, listen to it in windows media, then real player. There's no comparison.

    Anything kicks ass when compared to "real" player. It's like comparing a Rolls-Royce to a shopping cart with two broken wheels.

    --
    Not noteable, IMO a rubbish article.
  40. Hi, my name is Mr. Wallet. by MortisUmbra · · Score: 1

    You may know me from such educational films as "if you dont like a companies business practices, don't buy their product" and my feature film debut "Money Talks".

    Seriously though people. There are alternatives to Sony and MS, hell I can't remember the last time either company got my money....not for my OS, my TV, DVD player, head unit in my car, I don't think I own a single Sony or MS product. So I know I'M not contributing to the problem....are you? ;)

    --

    "The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
  41. just-sign-here-and-here-and-here-and-here dept. by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    Shouldn't this be from the

    "I-can't-breathe-because-of-all-the-tinfoil-i'm-we aring-dept."?

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  42. Microsoft and the media business by andy1307 · · Score: 1

    I posted an article here about the real reason Microsoft settled with AOL/Netscape. Microsoft wants AOL to use its server software for serving TIME-Warner media content. Microsoft is getting into the media business in a big way. This could explain why they are still pouring money down the hole that is MSNBC.

  43. Won't work by teval · · Score: 1

    The cold fact (warm and fuzzy for us :) that companies have to accept, is that no scheme like this can't work. Look at every other attempt at keeping a widely distributed system closed. DVDs.. CDs.. they've been trying this for ages, and will continue to fail because for it to work, a part of it will need to be in the phones. You can just open up a phone, reverse engineer the code inside, and find out how the protocol works. Remember the debacle with Sony CD protection and markers? I've never been particularly worried about all these attempts, I'm much more worried of squads of lawyers and misguided (mallicious) governments.

  44. hmm.. by waspleg · · Score: 1

    isn't gate's house totally automated?

    i bet it would be fun to make his multimillion dollar whatever turn into poltergeist meets pee wee's playhouse

  45. T-Shirt Slogan! by konmaskisin · · Score: 1

    "Since all current Digital Restrictions Management schemes do not guarantee my fair use rights, I will not subscribe to any of them. I would rather "go without" the media than put up with this ...."

    Amen!! This is a good T-shirt slogan ...

    tnx.

  46. You don't get it by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ..... but you're not meant to get it.

    There already exist open data formats which could be used for ensuring interoperability. All this guff is just to promote the idea of DRM for the wrong reasons.

    Whilst I like the idea of signed source code that can only possibly have come from who it says it came from, so that I can choose if or not I want to compile it, I am less keen on the idea of other people being able to tell me what I can do with my equipment.


    Imagine that the postal service had a true monopoly on the delivery of letters and parcels. You wouldn't be allowed to slip a note through your neighbour's door: you would have to go to the post office, buy a stamp and deposit it in the box there. You wouldn't be allowed to carry a basket of food to Grandma's house: you would have to parcel it up, and if Granny missed the delivery, she would have to trek all the way to the sorting office to pick up your baking.

    If you want to buy goods from a supplier, they have to send them through the postal service, who will take your payment and ensure that the cost of the goods is passed on to the supplier. You are not allowed to get in your car or walk round to the depot and pick the goods up yourself, even if you pay cash on collection.

    Now imagine that somebody just invented a way you could send a message from almost any computer to almost any other computer. How do you imagine that the postal service would react to that?


    Well, the record companies are basically providing a delivery service for goods {in this case music} from the performer to the listener. If the listener chooses to pay neither the record companies' delivery charge, nor the cost of the goods from the supplier {performer}, the record labels regard this as stealing.

    However, it is my contention that the record companies are more concerned about their being deprived of the delivery charge than about the artist being depived of their payment {which on a CD is mere pennies}. Now we come to the crux of the matter. The artist is only missing out on pennies. I would not miss this little amount of money, so what chance is there that they will miss it?

    It's unfortunate that things have got the way they have. I could not honestly object to a scheme whereby someone downloading a music file directly paid the artist the money they were asking for -- it would almost certainly be less than the cost of a CD. But you can bet this won't be about paying the performers. The record companies will shamelessly use the image of the starving artist to justify lining their own pockets.


    If they're even still around in a few years' time, that is .....

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  47. And as such they are unconstitutional by konmaskisin · · Score: 1

    ... when will someone take the movie/media industry to court and crush and destroy it?

    The only way to move forward is to crush and destroy the current industry and replace it with something nimble and lower cost and more entertaining.

  48. Oh Waaa... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    crybaby.

  49. Re:Isnt this just like saying by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I hate you pro-super zombie head eater fanatics.

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  50. looking at it illogically by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

    Ahhh, the joys and bliss of being *ahem* older!

    Yes, I could have all sorts of DVD's, connectivity, etc. But I don't. Here's why:

    [1] I don't own a cell phone, pager, or any other wireless devices (except for the radio in my car). There is nothing in my employment or personal life that says you can contact me during off hours. This is intentional on my part EG, "Don't call me, I'll call you."

    [2] Excuse me, but the reason I am paying for the damn technology in the first place is for *my* convenience, not yours, ya sales scum. When I want to know something, I'll find it out myself, thanks.

    WTF do you need your cellphone talking to your DVD??? Are ya gonna listen to a movie during your commute?

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  51. I try not to get angry these days..... by reality-bytes · · Score: 1

    I just listen to oldskool tunes on 12" vinyl or dubplate.

    I just dread the day when the RIAA pops out of its mouth (after its long excursion up its ass) and introduces ARM (Analogue Rights Management) That will probably be the day I go Postal.

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    Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
  52. Because big business is the government by thepacketmaster · · Score: 1

    Nobody seems to like the idea of Big Brother. The idea of the Government watching all its citizens wasn't palitable to the voters. But if Big Business keeps building little parts of the "Big Brother" functionality into all the items you want to buy, pretty soon you have willing purchased your way into all that control the Government wanted in the first place. The irony is that because of all the campaign contributions and lobbying, Big Business is really the Government. It's the ultimate marketing job. Creating a demand for something you didn't want in the first place.

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    Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.

  53. Rendezvous? by davidstrauss · · Score: 1

    Apple's open rendezvous seems idea for communication between diverse devices capable of many tasks. I believe iTunes can share over the service, which makes it empirically possible to implement it for MP3 sharing across a home network.

  54. We do need the standards by mikolas · · Score: 1

    "Why would an industry alliance need to define a standard to share an MP3 file between a smart phone and a PC?"

    If you really have ever used any kind of smartphones, you should already know that any kind of standards are desperately needed. Just try to sync your calendar via BlueTooth between different vendor's phones, let alone do anything more sophisticated like automatically discover media files from foreign devices.

    As a sidenote, I see no reason to limit this functionality to smartphones. It would be rather nice to have all the digital appliances discover playable media from the home network like play DivX on your set-top box using Ethernet of Wi-Fi link to your file server, or stream music from your MP3 player to your home stereo. I'd really like to see this digital media hub thing get started instead of all the nice marketing speech. But in order to do this, DRM is required in order to gain industry support.

  55. DRM Won't work by symbolset · · Score: 1
    I Agree, but for another reason.

    For DRM to work, the DRM system has to prevent the presentation of unauthorized content.

    RIAA and their pals could downloaded every MP3 and MPG on every p2p network and every ftp site in existence (a herculean task). They could build a list therefrom of forbidden file signatures. They could require the DRM equipment to check their live database for a forbidden signature before presenting the content.

    And the next day some wiseacre with nothing better to do would create a filter that permutes the files with unnoticable differences as they're downloading, hence evading the signature police by making every file different.

    In China, if performers want to make money they have to perform their material in public and get a share of the gate. That is what the American system should arrive at in a few years, and to quote a suspected felon, "It's a good thing."

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    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  56. Informative? I don't think so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course OGG kicks WMA's ass. (Myself, I have doubts as to whether or not it kicks MP3's ass. Sure, it might be better, but MP3 provides good enough sound that I can't tell the difference between CD and MP3. Now, if OGG somehow made it sound like bands were performing live for me, then yes, I'd say it kicks MP3s ass.)

    Right, back on topic, the original poster was right. WMA *does* kick RA's ass.

    *I* can kick RA's ass simply by eating at Taco Bell and then farting out Top 40 radio. :P

  57. Re:Informative? I don't think so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *I* can kick RA's ass simply by eating at Taco Bell and then farting out Top 40 radio

    I got mad techniques... dripping out my butt cheeks!

  58. Obvious solution... by di0s · · Score: 1

    Microsoft and Sony to make sure DVD players and cell phones can communicate with each other over a home wireless network
    The technology is already there: Rendezvous
    It's already an open standard and is proven. Why wouldn't they use it? Simple. They each want to own your consumer experience. I for one would love a plethora of Rendezvous-enabled devices.

  59. sounds to me like... by zonker · · Score: 0

    ...they are using this to get a major corporate backer for windows media 9. i'm imagining they are going to try slowing pressuring the studios into using the wmp9 format in consumer electronics with the guarantee to them that their format is harder to break than the dvd encryption...

  60. DRM in device, or data? Or both? Or neither? by MasonMcD · · Score: 1

    Bleah. UPnP is a bear compared to ZeroConf (aka Rendezvous).

    Why not have the DRM in the file, as people and industries care about *content* and focus on easy communications that are easy to implement?

    IIRC, including ZeroConf capabilities for a particular service is like, 5 lines in ObjC or something, but UPnP is templates and device descriptions and yadda yadda.

    You want to clamp down on what's allowed where? Put it in the content, not the media or device. You will lose on the device side (right, Mr. V-Chip? Who has programmed their TV to block channels? Easier to say "BEDTIME!" than push 37 buttons and remember passwords for YOUR OWN TV!)

    Make the data format reasonable to work with and people will adopt or use it if it doesn't present any perceptible obstacles (no bone thrown to "information wants to be free" people). I don't think many are willing to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars (sorry all you HDTV early adopters! Maybe next year!) for a device that actually *reduces* functionality.

  61. Go Intel Go! by MikShapi · · Score: 1

    I just can't wait for Intel to soak up ye'ol Fritz chip and lop it on-die. Hey, I mean why go to jail for sharing MP3's and get myself violated there when I can have a bunch of hardware engineers violate me right here where I sit? Go DMCA! Onward Stalin!

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  62. whats next? DRM supporting mice and keyboards? by ixxologic · · Score: 1

    What is even the point in using computers when we cant do what WE want with them? ixxo

  63. Re:Seriously people....get off it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, if you like media players the just crank up the volume on the bass automagically.