Slashdot Mirror
Mom Meets Linux - A Lindows 4.0 Review
JimLynch writes "We just put up the first review of Lindows 4.0, with a twist. I actually gave it to my Mom to see if she could use it. Find out if Lindows 4.0 passed the "Mom Test.""
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
Linux needs advertising in the popular media. Sure, I can see Linux ads in computer magazines; however, when I turn my TV on, I see ads about how much money you can save by switching to .NET. We need advertising to gain the mindshare we need to become popular. A friendly desktop is a good start; now we have something that we can advertise. Now we need to get the word out there.
I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
A thought for GNU/Linux users, BSD users, Mac users, and even MS users:
The more the desktop market becomes fractured, them more open standards have to be. The more companies will be willing to release hardware documentation (let the community write drivers, instead of attempting to write for 8 OSes). So, even if you don't like this distro, consider that the 'the average home user' buying a distro like this might still be a good thing.
-t
http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"
Sorry, but in my case, Windows doesn't even pass the "Mom test."
I know you were joking, but I want my Karma, so I'm going to reiterate your post in a serious tone.
The most glaring issue that I see, was the ability to run "apt-get," without a root password.
Ok, so Lindows can replace Windows on the desktop at home, so that the average user can be productive.
But have we really done ourselves any favors?
It seems that we have done nothing more than create a windows "clone", with a brand new feature set of security problems.
Do we really want to compete with microsoft at that level? They have far more experience in the insecurity realm than we do.
They'll beat us to death with experience.
I feel like this "feature" is going to make or break Lindows. I can see there being a problem with updating that will screw up all the users and kill Lindows forever.
Sadly, when Microsoft does this several times a year people just shrug and wait for the patch of the patch.
I just don't know if Lindows will be able to survive if they don't implement the update process in any way less than perfect - they don't have the acceptance and power of the Redmond giant.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Well his 'mom test' was whether or not his mom could open up OpenOffice and type a document. Amazing.
I know that this test wasn't stiving to be scientific or anything, but it appears that he had his mom play with Lindows for a couple of hours. Wouldn't a better test be to have her use Lindows for a week or so totally replacing her normal windows machine? This would offer better insights into what typical users of Windows are looking for in an OS and how Lindows can better meet thier needs. Just my 2 cents
yeesh, buddy, don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back so much...
Usability and functionality don't have to be mutually exclusive, and there's nothing "elite" about a system that has such a usability barrier. Although, that might be a neat way to pawn off user requests - "oh, you don't need that mod, do you? You're such an elite user, you know..."
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
I think that's exactly the problem that the poster was trying to show: people use computers in ways that designers may not anticipate. Even though Lindows looks a lot like Windows and has many equivalent applications, it may not pass usability tests like this, where people are so ingrained in their habits and only learn one way to do things and they stick with it. Sometimes, they learn the process and not the concept, so a small change in the interface may mean big changes for the user. In this case, the mom, may not be able to use Lindows without a learning curve.
If you read the article, you'll see that about two paragraphs are devoted to the "Mom Test" (which they conclude that she passed). Basically the "Mom Test" involved her watching a Lindows tutorial, clicking on the "start" menu, and launching OpenOffice. Color me unimpressed. Perhaps they should have extended the "Mom Test" to cover a week or two of normal usage. See how she reacts when she can't open those cute e-mail attachment programs (no, not VIRUSES) that her friends forward to each other. See how she reacts when she brings home the label-making software she bought that won't install under Linux. See how she reacts when the webcam she bought so she can send "video emails" to her family members won't work because Linux doesn't have drivers for it.
Somehow, I think the results of the "Mom Test" will be a little different under those circumstances.
It's not much of a "Mom test," is it? I mean,all she did was boot it up, poke around the desktop, and eventually find the office suite. How about something a bit mor robust, like letting her use it for a week for everyday tasks without tech support?
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
Perhaps you could get your mom to write up a review. What was she thinking? What parts she found hard. What parts she found easy.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
A surprising amount of the time, the command prompt is a HELL of a lot faster. Say I want to copy all the MP3 files from a directory to a floppy, and they're mixed with a bunch of other files. In Windows Explorer, there's no way to sort by extension. At the prompt: "copy *.mp3 a:"
.... blank look.... oh, that's too hard.
..... oh, that's too hard.....
I don't know how many times at work I've watched people spend 5 or more minutes going slowly through all the files in Windows Explorer, reading every filename, ctrl-click selecting all the *.blah files, so they can then drag. A couple of times, I've said "You want to see an easier way?" and start/run/cmd, cd \blah, copy *.blah d:\temp. There. 15 seconds, we're done.
Then watch someone trying to navigate to my computer on the network....Network Neighborhood....Microsoft Windows Network....Company Domain.....Workgroup....."Wait, what workgroup are you in?....back out....other workgroup....Ah, there's (my initials).
"So next time, why not click start/run, and type \\(my initials) and you won't have to worry about what workgroup or domain or whatever I'm in?"
YARGH! I swear, people WANT to be stupid. Either that or they think they can catch a disease from the keyboard and not the mouse.
I've given up.
Seriously...
The 'Mom Test' is a serious benchmark; it's name is not to be invoked lightly. The Mom Test involves nothing less than installing an OS on your mom's home desktop and seeing if she can figure out how to do all the things she would normally do with MS-Windows. If, after a month or so, your mom hasn't called you and demanded that you return her to Microsoft-Land, then (and only then) can the OS be said to have passed the 'Mom Test'.
lysergically yours
The Linux community really should try to push the penguin a little more. Something as simple as a mascot or logo really does help people who are unfamilar with your product. I bet they see the penguin, and think "I've heard something about this". It really helps to break the ice.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Mom: Hi. The power went off over here and now I can't get my computer to work.
Me: Uhm, OK. Does it do anything at all?
Mom: Well, the printer is on, and the screen says "Check connection".
Me: Hmmm. Alright. Is everything plugged in?
Mom: Yes, it looks like it. All the little doohickies are in the back of the computer.
Me: (avoiding this until the last--it just can't be the cause) Is the computer turned on?
Mom: I think so. There's something on the screen.
Me: Uhm, I meant, did you actually push the power button on the computer?
Mom: Nooo. Should I?
Me: (after a pause) Yeah, that might be a good idea.
Mom: Oh! There it is! Now it's working!
Me: (sigh) Well, there you go. Let me know if you have any other problems with it.
Now, if they'd tried their test with my mom, I don't think they would have faired quite as well.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks to the adoption of Linux on the desktop has been the nerdish nature of the whole installation, configuration and user experience. Your average PC user (and most likely non-/. reader) is doing good to figure out how to get a printer connected to their Windows machine. The typical Linux distro is a no-go for these folks. Forget configuring a NIC, modifying the defaults for Gnome or KDE, or trying to figure out how to FTP a file from an xterm shell prompt. It just won't happen. MS has made Windows what it is not on its technical merits, but because it's been dumbed-down to the point where almost anyone can make it do something useful right out of the box with only a modest amount of coaching. A while back Russ Mitchell offered this rather negative view of Linux's chances on the desktop. While not everything he says is golden, a lot of it does apply, and should be seriously considered by anyone with dreams of seeing MS pushed into the backseat. Apparently someone at Lindows did bother to pay attention and start to make the Linux experience less painful for those without the inclination or ability to fiddle around under the hood.
And before you poo-poo those poor sods who can't grok a regular expression or launch a background task from bash, just remember this: They're the ones with most of the disposable income, not us nerds, and Bill Gates et. al. know it.
For those who say Lindows is charging money for something that you think should be free, I have one suggestion for you.
..... well, you can always dream :-) } Make it free.
Make your own puppy-walking distribution that starts simple - so there's nothing for neophytes to fear - and grows up with you rather than holding you back. {How about a file manager with a window that shows you what you could have typed into a terminal to achieve the same effect -- it would be off by default, but you could turn it on once you felt ready for it?} Make it better than Mandrake or Lindows. Make it easy to customise, so you can add features as you become more confident. {Start building web pages with a HTML editor -> put in your own Apache server -> do some programming in PHP -> progress to a "real" language -> become a kernel hacker
You can do it. All the bits are out there, for free -- all it is going to take is a bit of custom scripting to hold it all together. Nobody is stopping anybody from doing it.
Unless you can't be bothered to do it, in which case you've no place slagging off those that have at least tried.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
If he's a *true* nerd, isn't that a given?
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
YARGH! I swear, people WANT to be stupid. Either that or they think they can catch a disease from the keyboard and not the mouse.
:)
No, what people want is to be lazy. Yes, I know, it's far more work to do all that clicking etc., but that's the way you see it.
As the people who prefer to do all that laborious run-around probably see it, it's far more preferable than the laborious task of trying to remember arcane commands and the syntax and order of arguments. Don't even think about adding flags.
I know that it seems so terribly obvious to you, but methinks you're a little more in-tune with common advanced computer concepts and maybe even know a little programming, yes? The kind of structured logic involved in using the command-line comes easy, yes? Well, it doesn't for other people, and muscle energy is cheap compared to brainpower.
Plus, all that clicking and dragging gets them 5 minutes closer to quitting time without having to actually do any work. So I'm guessing that they really just want to be lazy, because I don't think anybody really wants to be perceived as stupid.
As an aside, people don't seem to mind being 'selectively ignorant'. One of the most brilliant programmers I know, an old Unix hack from way back, has absolutely no idea how to hook up a hard drive or deal with any other aspect of hardware manipulation, and has no intention of ever learning. "That stuff is for sysadmins and support people" - go figure.
Free yourself. Everything else will follow.
In Windows Explorer, there's no way to sort by extension.
funny... clicking on the view->details menu function and then clicking on the type tab sort's by extension for me.
click on top boob.mp3 and shift-click on the last Zeeb.mp3 drag to Jaz drive/network drive/kazaa share and it's magically done.
in fact I can do it faster than you can open a shell and type your command....
I agree, most users are so brain-dead they smell bad, but you are just as mis-informed as they seem to be.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You, my friend, are a genius.
Do you realize there are now at least 5 responses telling you how to copy 'all of the *.mp3 files in a directory to a floppy'.
I realize that the mp3 format may be used for things BESIDES individual songs ripped from CDs or downloaded, but the VAST majority of mp3 files are exactly this.
So... back to the genius part - you just had some (presumably) computer gurus explain how to take a directory full of 3-4 meg (average) sized files, and copy them onto a floppy disk.
LOL!!
Oh, and to ensure I don't get a shitload of 'offtopic' mods, I'm typing this from my parent's machine... with a fresh copy of Lindows 4.0 installed... and they are already enjoying it.
Each user can then do whatever they please in their environment, as they learn it. If they screw up, replacing to defaults is as trivial as a file copy.
USING linux is NOT hard. Administering it MAY be, but I find the guesswork with configuring and installing software on Microsoft's end-user offerings to be much more painful.
PC: Press the space bar to continue... ;-)
Mom: What happened!? What do I do now?
Me: Um, did you read the screen?
Mom: Oh.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
But seriously, notice how the "mom test" joke totally depends on sexism to be funny? I mean, puuuulease, my mom has a PhD, and was coding FORTRAN before most slashdotters were born.
Find free books.
Amen brother. Why the hell can't you filter files by extension? I won't rant for long, but I loved using IRIX in the early 90s because all I had to do was type "*.blah" in the (what is now called the address bar) of the graphical file manager, and, wala, only those files would appear in the window. How hard is this to do? Not very. Why doesn't ANYONE do it? Because no one does it, and IRIX did not penetrate far enough (carefully avoiding a mom joke) for that feature to gain attention. Maybe Apple OSes let you do it, but if so I would think M$ would have adopted the feature. Oh well, I guess my computer is only as usefull as the applications let it be.
It's not just one failure, the distro failed the Mom test completely.
1) He had to install OpenOffice *himself* before Mom got on.
2) He had to prompt Mom, after waiting for her to find MS Office, that she should be looking for something else.
So, she *couldn't* find the MS Office substitute, and *wouldn't* have been able to find it in Lindows, because it isn't installed by default.
How is that passing the test at all? The computer didn't catch fire while she was using it?
Dude, relax.
I just had to tech someone in our marketing department on how to put a fucking file in a fucking directory. Not on the command line. Not via ftp or WebDAV. A regular Windows file into a regular Windows directory.
People who claim to know how to use Windows in fact do not. They know how to use certain Windows programs. They are program-centric, not file-centric. I want to feel sorry for them, until I realize that they put "Windows use" on their resume, which was a fucking lie. Now I can hate them with a clear conscience.
Sorry for the rant, but it just happened 25 minutes ago.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Uh...MS Office isn't installed by default on a Windows box. Therefore, had this been a vanilla installation of Windows, he would have had to install Office for his Mother anyways. Ergo, while you may be correct in saying that the test failed because he had to manually install Open Office prior to Mom, Windows would have failed the exact same way.
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
The non-tech-savvy people, OTOH, have basic needs that can easily be addressed by Linux: e-mail, internet, instant messaging, mp3 player, p2p app, word processing. That is all they need and want. If someone will wake up and do this (I suspect Lindows is in the best position) so that when it is installed, all this is good to go - you'd have the OS for your mom.
Now let me tell you why mom matters: Mom is looking for the cheapest PC there is. If you can undersell a Windows box with a Linux box, then you've just won. Also, marketing works. I suspect by your website you don't put much faith in marketing, but sales and marketing people make or break the product in the real world. You could have the best product there is, but if you don't have the right people hyping it up, there will be no sales=no money=you're out of a job.
Mom watches TV. She reads the magazines. If something promises to do something easier/cheaper/better/faster/safer/etc, she'll be interested. People listen to marketing. If she sees this, she'll install it. If Dad uses it at work, and he brings it home, kids will use it. You've just created a two-prong attack that does very well. You expose the kids from a young age. Everyone starts to use it more. If you're the dad or mom, work with they kids and they'll love it. You've just created a completely Linux family. That wasn't so hard to see why Mom needs advertising, is it?
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
> my mom doesn't pass the Windows XP mom test
You've got things all twisted around, but I don't blame you. Many people have this perception. Mom's not the one being tested, the OS is. The computer should be meeting the user's needs. If it does not, the failing is the result of the software. (All right, there are some users who will consistently be disappointed, at least for the forseeable future.)
When people are unable to perform tasks in Windows the perceived fault is with them, and when people are unable to perform tasks with alternative software, the fault is with the software. This perception is one more thing that needs to change before Microsoft's dominance will fade. Advocates of Linux or other systems need to do two things, in this order:
1) Encourage people to have higher expectations from their computer
2) Meet those expectations
Apple has been doing the second for a long time, but it's only with the new 'Switch' campaign that they're trying to address the first. We should all be cheering them on, because if they can do it, things will be better for everybody (even Microsoft users, assuming Microsoft picks up on point number 2).
I want to feel sorry for them, until I realize that they put "Windows use" on their resume, which was a fucking lie. Now I can hate them with a clear conscience.
Depending on their generation, that really might not be so bad. I think we lose sight of just how scared the majority of people are of computers. I was listening to a radio show the other day, and on it a teacher was in the middle of a distance learning class about teaching technology to younger kids. The teacher was actually a little confused by the idea of hitting links to get to the next lesson, and I think that's really the norm rather than the exception for some generations right now. For them, having learned what button to press in order to get out of a window does in fact mean they know how to use windows.
Now, if someone got a job instead of me by saying they had ten years of experience with C#, then I'd be rather annoyed at resume shanagins.
Everything will be taken away from you.
You haven't read the GPL have you? You must only provide the source for the software.
"The pricing of Click N' Run software has changed from $49.95 a year to $4.95 a month" That means it's $60 a year!!!
Wrong. The pricing is either $49.95 a year or $4.95 a month. If you wish to pay monthly instead of yearly then you pay more, this is a common practice.
I think the OSS/GPL community should focus on making a seriously usable, more efficient and stable UI w/ a simple and powerful API. Maybe ditch X & C? I think that Java, Python, AOP, self-generating code (like LISP) and langugages w/ embedded expert knowlege systems (something like JESS) are the future... platform specific apps are headed for the dust-bin of history: C does not scale well and there's too many hacks/incompatibilities/evil things and C++ polymorphism is a inconsistent, incomplete kludge. You can argue and justify *NIX & C all day long, but the security issues (strcmp, gets) and wild pointers give programs zero protection, almost like each program is an old skool DOS machine, where it can go wild writing shit everywhere w/ pointers w/o security. I propose that programs and libraries have defensive security models *built-in*, so that private data is actually secured, in a real way.
Sounds nifty. How about you give me a copy when you've got a beta. Seriously though, no one cares what you think the OSS community should do. The whole point is to do what you want to be done. The source is open so you don't have to re-implement everything on your own. Whoever feels it's a good idea to implement "your" ideas, and is knowledgeable enough to do so, will do just that. So I suggest if you really want something like that then create it or shut up.
Time makes more converts than reason
Just make sure you replace the OpenOffice.org icons in the start menu with their windows counterparts and rename them to "Word", "Excel", etc.
I guarantee you that most of the time, Moms will not even notice the difference, at least mine will just assume her memory about how the software looked the last time just let her down.
I asked for a refund - and got my monkey back.
In any OS it's easy to migrate personal data, if you know what you are doing and where the data is stored.
But that is the point, in windows you don't know where the #@%^^%* data is stored. In linux your data is in /home/username, and you don't have the ability to write to much else (/tmp, which could perhaps be renamed to temperary_data, but I think that is clear enough already). Unfortunatly writing to floppies isn't as easy, and syncing for a laptop users is a pain. At least the data is easy to find, compare that to a Windows machine that several people will use.
I just helped a Windows XP user try to find some data. She opens WordPerfect (came with the comptuer), writes something, saves it, and then can't find it again. I eventially found it, but not in her directory, in some other users directory. Worse, I couldn't even figgure out how to make it start saving HER files to her directory. And this is a simple singer user computer. I challenge you to setup a typical windows machine on a network enviroment where the users won't know in advance which machine they will use on any given day.
Do YOU realize the slight difference in wording between what he said and what all of those other responses are chastizing him for?
HE said "there's no way to sort by extension". All of the replies calling him an idiot are telling him how to "sort by 'Type'". In most cases, "file type" is unique enough that each extension has it's own file type. However, the "file type" varies depending on what software you've installed on your computer that decides to 'claim' those extensions.
If the software decides to just give multiple extensions the same file type name, you end up with multiple filename extensions that are sorted as though they are identical to each other. So in the example he gave: if you'd installed Winamp (or any number of those crap media player packages that many OEMs put on their computers before they ship them), then you COULD have multiple extensions including
So if you have a folder with lots of files in it, ending in
There ARE ways of getting a list of files that match a certain extension from within the GUI (like other people have pointed out, using the Search/Find tool), but what he actually said was correct, and does not deserve your sarcastic bashing. Your post should not have been modded 'offtopic', but rather 'flamebait'.
Most people that don't want to learn console commands aren't going to want to learn "WindowsKey+F, copy current folder location, paste in 'Look in' box, type file extension in 'Named' box, click 'Find Now' button, select all" either.
Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all the unhappy people.
Sorting by type is not the same thing as sorting by extension. Suppose WiMP has registered *.mp3, *.au, *.aiff, *.wma, and *.aac as the same type so they can all open in it. If you sort by type, it'll sort all files of each type by name regardless of extension. Since most people let their programs handle their file associations for them, messes like these aren't especially uncommon.