Slashdot Mirror
Small Footprint Computers
Robert Cliff writes "VIA's Mini-ITX based computers have been
covered in Slashdot before, but not by this
company. This product
is interesting because it is a SiS based, fanless 233 MHZ system measuring only
4.75 x 6.25 x 1.9 inches, and it can run off BOTH AC and DC. If you need something
larger / powerful, they have other
Mini-ITX based systems, which they claim is built "on same factory that
builds the cases for many high-end audio products". These guys seem to
be heavily promoting Linux."
"VIA's Mini-ITX based computers have been covered in Slashdot before, but not by this company."
Um, this company builds Mini-ITX computers or do they cover/review them?
Or is it Slashdot that builds them or this company that builds them?
Errr, um, I'm confused.
This article has nothing to do with the RIAA or SCO. What the fuck am I supposed to complain about in my comment?
Also, since I can't resist:
Imagine a beowulf cluster of these...on a BOOKCASE!
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
I don't think I would get near it if that gross hand comes with it.
Now I can have an answer to the age old question "Are you happy to see me or is that a computer in your pocket?"
I'm interested in placing an ad similar to this one for the upcoming release of "The Art of Computer Programming, Volume Four".
Which of your departments at OSDN should I contact to take advantage of this wonderful marketing opportunity? If I wish to purchase more than one article, is there any volume pricing available?
for one of these for some time now. I would like to put it with wifi in the back of my car and run a custom (read: linux) mp3 server. Now all I need to tack down is the touch screen LCD interface for it (seriously). A little LCD (must be at least 300 whatever brightness units to see in the sunlight of a car interior) isn't bad on it's own, but with touchscreen it's a bit more pricy. Oh, and I don't yet understand how to interface it with a normal OS like a desktop linux or windows (god forbid). Any suggestions? Anybody done anything like this? This appears to be the perfect 'puter for it though ::grin::
I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
From my experience, at least with my vid card, SiS and linux don't mix all that well...
If my enemy's enemy is my friend, what happens if my enemy is his own worst enemy?
I'm the kind of person who would like some sort of constantly running system like this (I want to implement a Cache sometime) so these sorts of systems intrigue me. I couldn't put up with the constant whirr of a full PC, but I could put up with one of these. Trouble is, this one seems so pricey, considering the minimalistic specs. For the price I could build a much faster, more capable system, albeit a lot louder (and a bit bigger - its a MATX case I've got lying about here). Are these guys just aiming for too small a market and pricing themselves out? I think they might be.
That little guy has some potential, but that is quite possibly the cheesiest looking case I have ever seen. They should have at least put a blur filter on that picture - Sheesh! How about hitting the mold with a hammer a couple of times to knock the air bubbles out of the plastic, at least for the one you're going to use for the product shot!
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Phhsht. My toaster has a 533MHz processor, and it runs off of AC, DC _and_ chemical energy (aka toast ;)
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
The above post about power and tower size has no correlation to the size of my genitalia, ah who am I kidding....
In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.
It looks cool and all, but $400 is a little much for a 233mhz system without video. Maybe if you had a specific need for something like this. You only need to go slightly bigger (a few of them stacked on top of each other) and you can have a modern system for around that price.
Of course, this doesn't address the really issue with size: the screen.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Is there somebody I have missed that is also making the mini-itx format?
(from the site)The MicroServer supports many x86 operating systems. This includes Windows 9x, Windows CE.NET, Windows XP embedded, GNU/Linux, BSD, and QNX.
This company is really RMS in disguise!
.
He says AC and DC. I assume that means it needs an AC waveform superimposed over a DC bias. That seems obscure, but actually any phone jack will supply such a voltage. Therefore, I conclude that this system is powered by telephone dialtones.
Another company uses the same concept with more of a specialty for diskless firewall products and wireless. The have good support for OpenBSD /w hardware crypto acceleration as well as Linux and FreeBSD.
http://soekris.com/
-ez
Comparison of SPEC CPU2000 benchmarks against suitably optimized(*) Apple G5 demonstrates mATX computers are infinitely faster than Apples latest offering at both integer and floating point computations.
(*) G5 test optimized by switching it off. "Its faster that way", claim benchmarking company.
If you want to build your own system, go to Advantech and choose "Biscuit SBCs". They have fanless, VIA-based 667mhz computers that are roughly the size of 3.5" Hard drives. The computers include almost everything you need: audio, ethernet, VGA, TV out, IRDA, USB, IDE, and CompactFlash support. The only things you need to do yourself would be finding/building a case and finding a stable 5VDC power supply.
Pack a music/video server into the mini-van and give the kids in the backseat two notebooks to play with on the way to the beach/mountains.
Jamie: "Mom, Jimmy crashed my Windows again!"
Jimmie: "heheheh"
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Simple! They don't come in Beowulf clusters or run BSD by default!
mike.
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
(Patent pending)
/. today!) to create instant portable systems.
In which the "computer" consists of a number of bricks, assembled much like the child's toy "Lego". The bricks come in standard sizes, half-height, double-length, etc. There are bricks for computing, bricks for storage, bricks for power, for backups, and for i/o.
To assemble a "system" you simply choose your bricks and click them together. Bricks have universal connectors in each "bump" which exchange power and information.
Implementation: each brick is a complete computer, and the "system" is a network cluster. A "storage" brick is simply a PC with a fat HD. A "memory" brick being one with lots of RAM.
When I want a new server, I can simply assemble one from bricks that are lying around. When a PC gets too slow, I can replace or add a computing brick. There is no limit to the size of a system: I could plug together hundreds of random bricks to build a computing wall or desk.
The bricks are built to some specifications so that the OS can work with them easily. But competition between manufacturers will ensure that the most innovative and tasteful bricks are the most popular.
The Bricks OS has no concept of file systems. Instead user spaces are automagically synchronized between storage bricks. No backups are ever needed because all available space is always used to keep redundant copies of data.
Personal user spaces can be held on small bricks that are eminently portable and can be connected to portable power supplies and foldable LCDs (hey, I saw this in
Lastly, security. All bricks are marked with a sticker reading "Steal me and the RIAA will sue you!"
Ceci n'est pas une signature
From the "Details" Page: "For example, at 100 Mhz, the SiS 55x offers the same computational power as a 233Mhz MMX."
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Although I cant reach the website, its slashdotted now, Ive been waiting for such computers. I intend to replace cisco routers on many levels with these if they have available PCI slots.
I think the crashing PC prices will harm the cisco market and might spin off PC based router companies. For this reason, Cisco is focusing on management technologies that cannot be replaced by simply replacing that router. Web-frontends for management software that can manage routers and switches via SNMP and proprietary protocols, and other protocols like the CPD that will become indispensible and will make it hard to go from a $2500 router to a better $200 pc-router.
And for that reason, there is great potential for free/opensource management software as well as its cliet stubs for Linux/FreeBSD routers firewalls and other SNMP devices. Theres also great potential for an IOS emulation app for Linux/BSD.
I'm just amazed at how an operating system can run on mainframes and pdas, emulate the binaries of many OSes, have all the functions of any other OS and challenge Sun, Microsoft, Cisco and game console markets in one blow.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
" Wrap one of those foldable monitors around one of these, add a roll up keyboard, and you've got one hell of a portable system!!"
Oh lovely. Computers in the burrito format.
The price problem with these things is usually in the cards. I know because I've been doing a lot of research online, looking for SBCs (Single Board Computers) that I could wedge into something small enough to build my holy grail: a "white box" portable.
Why not get a laptop? Because I hate the ergonomics and the form factors on laptops, and I hate the proprietary battery tech.
The most affordable card I've been able to find is made by Wincomm. Google around for it, or just check out BWI. It's still pricey $350-$450 IIRC. You can even get a fanless Transmeta version for like $100 extra dollars if you're still into that.
All of these cards are expensive when compared to PCs of comparable performance. I have several theories as to why: 1. They cater to the industrial computing and/or embedded market. When you can get them in onesies and twosies (which isn't always the case) they are going to cost more because these companies usually deal on volume with large manufacturers. 2. In some cases they are "ruggedized" and you pay for that even if you don't really need it. 3. The market is just smaller, so they have to price higher to recoup R&D costs. 4. Hefty licensing fees from chip companies (sometimes you have to pay thousands of dollars just for the rights to a reference design using their chips).
So, until somebody mass-produces the mobile equivalent of a generic MoBo for mobile CPUs, you're going to pay a premium for small form factors. Also, you would have to have better mechanical standards for connectors and add-on cards. The barriers aren't technical, just structural (as in "business structure"). There is no strong incentive for the power players to do this--yet.
At some point in the future, somebody will break through all this garbage. When they do, we could see some really exciting and affordable portable clone technology. That's what I'm searching for, and waiting for before I buy new hardware. By then, these cards should be powerful enough for non-jerky video too. They're almost there, but not quite.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Not enough details provided to tell. Given the cost, I would put a part before it, e.g. a step up/down switcher and some caps to handle (electrical) noise.
E-mail me for details or questions or pictures (James {dot} McCracken {at} stratapult {dot} com), but here you go:
VIA M10000 - 1GHz Nehemiah processor (good enough) - $150
512 MB RAM (hell 256 MB is probably enough) - $???80???
HDD (size and type doesn't really matter) - $70
Video- Two options here:
1. Get a PCI video card. I know it seems archaic but they still make them and these have decent enough performance compared to having to buy a shuttle.
2. Get a PCI-AGP converter (www.mini-itx.com has them) and a half-height AGP card. Again non-ideal.
Either option is gonna cost you about the same but option 2 actual gives you more options for performance than option 1. You'll get good enough performance for most non directx-9 games with this configuration. If you splurge and get the ATI A-I-W (there's a 9000 radeon PCI version for under $100), then you can turn this machine into a TiVo for free (no additional parts required) when you're not gaming.
Morex Cubid 3677 ($60) is a REAL nice looking case and you could mod a handle into it... or for the same price, get the power supply from the Morex line of cases, and get some acrylic to custom make your own case.
Totla cost: about $460. If you can scrounge some of the parts you'll get off cheaper, of course. I went without a video card, which still gives you good enough performance... 2000 3dmark2001 score... I can play AVP2 with a lot of the eye candy turned off and the res set down to 640x480... and I ended up building it all for $250.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
[fx: resists]
[fx: gives in] Why does it need BOTH AC and DC? That's a major disadvantage, isn't it, needing both mains and battery power (or a separate power adapter)?
Erm, unless, erm, it means either AC or DC...
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
O.k., since this little hand-sized thing is overpriced, does anyone know if there is a reasonably-priced (200-300 USD) 1U-sized box that just comes with, say, a motherboard and Via C3? I've got spare RAM and quiet hard drives lying around. Just looking for the bare-bones, small, quiet system.
At 1.90 inches that's either Robert Jordan or War and Peace.
A similar machine is the OpenBrick
One difference is that the Northtec uses a harddisk, while OpenBrick uses CF cards by default.
Does anybody have any further experience comparing these two machines?
How well does the video input on the Northtec machine work?
Second, I've been using a mini-ITX design (Shuttle) for over a year now and am completely satisfied. I'm not a gamer or power user, so it suits my needs just fine and I love the small footprint aluminum case. Best of all, it didn't come with the "Microsoft Tax," either.
I think the mini-ITX form is going to become increasingly standard over the next few years. The average user does not want a huge tower case when something smaller is available. If Dell, Gateway et al. were smart, they'd start offering a very compact computer, and watch their margins grow.
IAAL
I've been using their high performance (MicroServer HP) model for a few months. At 667 MHz, it is powerful enough for a wide variety of applications and is also virtually silent (the hard drive makes a very small amount of noise). They have a very unique heatsink solution that allows for fanless operation (I've had mine running for weeks without a problem). Definitely worth checking out.
I could get rid of a dozen pc systems that are used for home firewalls that need more than 2 interfaces.
If a company would come out with a cheap mini-pc just like the one in this article(no fans, small, etc) with 3 or 4 interfaces, I bet they would sell like hotcakes for use as cheap linux firewalls that don't take up a huge amount of space and don't sound like a jet engine all the time.
The SiS chipset is the least of your worries for this purpose. You either need an MPEG-1/2/4 hardware decoder/encoder, or a > 1Ghz processor, either of which will throw your form factor off in various ways. 233MHz is pathetic for MPEG work (yes the TiVo has a proc about that fast, but it also has embedded encode/decode chips).
The guys at MythTV have discussed this at length; there is just no small, quiet, cheap, Linux friendly way to make a TiVo. Sorry.
www.littlepc.com It's the smallest computer I've seen and it's even more powerful if not impossible to upgrade. All you need is a firewire hard drive and you could be all set (if you choose not to have one of those flash hard drives as an option). So it's basically a laptop in the shape of a 5 1/2 in drive bay. Beowulf that!
More importantly, does it run on either Spinal or Tap?
Lately democracy seems to be based on the skybox, the Happy Meal box, the X-box, and the idiot box.
As apposed to it coming a more attractive, yet equally severed, hand?
Blockwars: its multiplayer, try it.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
Actually, I said less than $100, but the "less than" sign got cut off by slash code.
Here is one:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=PCM-4
There are others, but I'm going to be a greedy pig and not reveal the source...until I get mine!
This box is still missing digital connections.
...)
spdif, so I can digitally hook it to my 5.1 channel amp.
dvi, so I can digitally hook it to my 21 inch lcd monitor, dvi projector, or plasma screen. ( assuming that I had those things
My company has been using machines very similar to these for about 8 months now. The housing is black and silver but the exact same shape and size. They are not marketed or sold by the company mentioned in the article.
They work very well. You would think there would be heat issues packing it all in that little box, more compact and together than in a typical notebook that has more displacement area, but there are none.
We use them in 35 of our convenience stores, they hold up to the dust, dirt, and other threats in your typical c-store very well.
I like them!
-- of all the things i've lost, i miss my mom the most --
Who said you need to remove the cover? These machines support PXE, so all you do to recover your box to pull a kernel off the network and a minimal root filesystem, and *bam* you're in business, no drives of any sort needed. It's a bit tougher in Windows, but still very possible.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
www.lex.com.tw
Especially the new DDR RAM one coming out soon - 4 channel video capture, VIA CPU, 2.5" disk, CF, wireless and up to 3 network interfaces in a box the size of a book..
Nice, but it's not a computer monitor. That may not matter if you have TV out or something. I don't think you can hook it up the norhtec device, but some of the mini-ITX boards might have a hookup (especially the ones designed for use in building DVD players and digital video recorders).
I think there are 640x480 VGA LCDs for sale in Circuit Cellar and Nuts n' Volts and similar places. That would be fine for my purposes, which is basically a linux text-only console, but I think they are generally higher than $100. The prices will come down though.
For the units without dvdrom, I don't see a way to boot if/when the internal disk develops some problem. Would you just have to ship it back to them for reconfiguring?
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Actually this is exactly what I need, if only the PC cost $100 or less. I'm automating my aquarium and the I/O will be through the printer port using an interface card I designed a few years ago. As it is, I have to resort to scrounging for old PC motherboards. As far as it tipping over: well, that's what mounting screws are for.
It includes LAN, serial, 2xUSB, parallel, 2xPS2, sound, VGA (Savage4) and composite video out. There are some other wonderful options coming which I can't yet tell you about, but amongst other things it's possible to make them completely fanless if you're happy with 533MHz and can guarantee a low environmental temperature - or a single maglev fan and any temperature you yourself can stand.
The first-run unit I'll review has Flash instead of a HDD and is also capable of taking a PSU to which you can attach a battery and treat it as a built-in UPS (or potentially run it from batteries). There is a ruggedised version of the PSU which will cope with automotive voltages (and fluctuations) but more work is needed to cope with the extreme vibration inherent in outback roads (it kills show-pony four-wheel drives, you can imagine what it would do to a computer).
/me waves to Alan and Telsa.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
My company wirespring uses these little P3 machines for kiosk and digital signage deployments all the time. They're only slightly longer than the nOrhTec product, and they're based on the i815 chipset (great linux support). Our FireCast Linux OS runs MPEG1,2 and 4 on these things great (and there's XV support to boot). Plus, if you can't live with a fan, you can pop out the Celeron/P3 and stick a VIA Eden or C3 in for silent running. On the flip side, the manufacturer also makes the product with a different case, and they even have models configured with P4s.