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Intel PAT Compared On 865PE Boards

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the motherboard-go-round dept.

Xaley writes "There is roundup at VR-Zone on several 865PE boards which came equipped with Intel PAT feature and definitely consumers will be happy to purchase these boards without paying a premium price that Intel has charged for their 875P chipset. A typical 865PE board costs around $150 and a 875P board costs around $200-250 so it is a cost savings of $100. Of course, Intel won't be too happy about it since sales of their 875P chipsets will be affected but there is no stopping for motherboard manufacturers from adding in the PAT feature into their 865PE boards now."

117 comments

  1. PAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Who's PAT? Is it a guy or a girl, who cares?

  2. Free Market by rf0 · · Score: 0

    Can't complain at more bang for buck. Now if only they made Xeons nice and cheap I would have a cluster of those :)

    Sorry

    Rus

    --
    Cheap UK and US VPS
    1. Re:Free Market by mnemonic_ · · Score: 1

      Xeon? Bah. Get some Opteron 240s for $290 each.

    2. Re:Free Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can anyone tell me what in the fuck is PAT.. nevermind if the orginal poster can't type it out for me then I'll just ignore what the hell this story was about.
      Gonna get my GHT at YIO before SIOFE. NAWI RTSA.

  3. It's PAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    A lot of people say, "What's that?"

    It's PAT.

    1. Re:It's PAT by TheFrood · · Score: 2, Funny

      A lot of people say, "What's that?"

      It's PAT.

      Just wanted to let you know at least one person got the joke.

      --
      If you say "I'll probably get modded down for this..." then I will mod you down.
  4. Ugh. by be-fan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Intel should stop reusing acronyms. PAT = Page Attribute Table, a feature in PIII+ processors that helps manage caching of memory ranges.

    --
    A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    1. Re:Ugh. by InnovativeCX · · Score: 4, Informative

      The above description was slightly vague, so I went out and did a googling for those that would like a little more info. A couple USENET posts turned up the following:

      This feature provides more flexible interface allowing to setup various memory cache modes on a page-by-page bases. It is much easier to program than MTRRs
      and does not suffer from their size/alignment limitations.

      and

      The Page Attribute Table (PAT) is an extension to the x86 page table format that lets you enable Write Combining on a per-page basis. Details can be found in chapter 9.13 of the Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3
      (System Programming).
    2. Re:Ugh. by Greger47 · · Score: 0

      Oh, I'm sure PZF and JLQ are both free. Now lets just find three maketing speak words that fits...

    3. Re:Ugh. by deadsaijinx* · · Score: 1

      agreed, but all this means is Performance Accelorated Technology. To me, that just means marketing hype.

      --
      YOU SUCK BALLS!
    4. Re:Ugh. by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are you suffering from TOS?

      (TLA Overload Syndrome).

      "Our ATM backbone provides the bandwidth to improve the legibility of a bank's ATM display by downloading either Truetype or ATM fonts".

    5. Re:Ugh. by azaze1 · · Score: 1

      Hello (P)artition (A)llocation (T)able too!

    6. Re:Ugh. by Ozymandias_KoK · · Score: 1

      You forgot to add ATM to the beginning, as in At This Moment. :)

    7. Re:Ugh. by jo42 · · Score: 1

      s/hype/spooj/

  5. Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm still sick over paying $2000 for my 486, not including monitor.

    1. Re:Blah blah blah by Oswald · · Score: 1

      Hell, everybody did that. My buddy's Gateway still lives as my LRP router. That massive 500mb hard drive just sits there, wasted.

    2. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, I paid more than that for mine....

      On the other hand, it STILL WORKS... router and mail server for my house.

      Can't say the same for the Pentiums and Macs I've gone through (2 PCs, a Centris 610, a Bondi Blue iMac).

      DON'T MAKE EM LIKE THEY USED TO!

    3. Re:Blah blah blah by qqtortqq · · Score: 1

      Sucker. I upgraded to 486 after the pentiums came out. Paid probably $500 for mobo, proc, and other stuff. I'm just now considering upgrading from K6-2/400 to a 1.6ghZ chip...

  6. No stopping? by Quixote · · Score: 2, Informative
    Don't count Chipzilla to just roll over and play dead. They have already warned MoBo manufacturers not to turn the i865 into the i875. I wonder how many will heed the warning? Its not as if there are major alternatives out there (note, I said "major").

    1. Re:No stopping? by SuperBanana · · Score: 1
      Don't count Chipzilla to just roll over and play dead. They have already warned MoBo manufacturers not to turn the i865 into the i875. I wonder how many will heed the warning? Its not as if there are major alternatives out there (note, I said "major").

      Don't count mObO manufacturers to just roll over and play dead. They have already warned Chipzilla not to be pissy about them turning the i865 into the i875. It's not as if there isn't another processor out there(note, I said "AMD").

      --
      Please help metamoderate.
    2. Re:No stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are major questions about stability with trying to run an i865 as an i875. When MoBo manufacturers release boards with intel chipsets that are unstable because they are not following the rules, it looks bad for intel. They have a vested interest in making the MoBo makers follow the specifications.

    3. Re:No stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't forget VIA or Transmeta or something coming out of mainland China. Such also-ran outfits might have looked like a joke a few years ago before a typical desktop was really ready for full screen video, but now that it's dawming on the market in general that a 400Mhz PC with decent RAM and video was about as much as you ever needed for pretty much any computer stuff short of hardcore rendering or video codecs, these also-ran companies are serious contendors for market share. The strategy of "slow" processors with low power consumption is looking better all the time.
      This becomes painfully obvious to people as their hotrod P4 or Athlon's monster fan dies and the overheated chip takes out their whole board.

  7. Funniest Quote Award by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Funny

    Funniest quote from the whole article:

    There are so many good marketing specs thrown into 875P that make the hardware enthusiasts to go after it and even prepare to pay a premium for it.

    I take back all those nasty comments about hole-in-the-wall-2-guys-in-a-dorm-room-'review' sites. Well, okay, not all of them- even this guy has some SERIOUS grammar problems :-)

    --
    Please help metamoderate.
    1. Re:Funniest Quote Award by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I take back all those nasty comments about hole-in-the-wall-2-guys-in-a-dorm-room-'review' sites."
      Something about that quote just seems so wrong. But yet so right.

    2. Re:Funniest Quote Award by mellonhead · · Score: 1

      The author lists his residence as Singapore. I'm guessing English is not his first language.

    3. Re:Funniest Quote Award by bark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In Singapore, English in one of the official languages. It is taught to kindergarden kids. Don't think that just because a person is in Asia that English should not be his/her first language.

    4. Re:Funniest Quote Award by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's one misplaced/missing word in that sentence. I'm sure a loose translation from the writer's native language is responsible for this little blunder. You kinda to a double-take, but the meaning of the sentence is obvious.

  8. Or just buy an AMD-based board by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 4, Informative

    since AMD doesn't harrass/sue third-party chipset suppliers (like VIA) so no one can get away with playing games like Intel is doing with PAT. I prefer nVidia nForce2 chipset boards these days. YMMV.

    1. Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board by eyeye · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      From the parents sig..

      MEMRI [memri.org] translates Middle Eastern news and commentary into English.


      http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/s to ry/0,7792,773258,00.html

      Its a propaganda machine, along with the ADL.

      --
      Bush and Blair ate my sig!
    2. Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fixed link

    3. Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how is translating what the arabs really say (when they're not providing sound bites to the western media) propoganda? pointing out what they're saying certainly works against them, but it's their own damn fault for saying "we love peace" in english and "we will watch the blood of america and the jews flow from their eyes as we rape their women" in arabic.

    4. Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board by Cyno · · Score: 1

      The nForce2 is a nice chipset but their Linux drivers leave much to be desired, like working audio and firewire.

    5. Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 1

      The nForce2 is a nice chipset but their Linux drivers leave much to be desired, like working audio and firewire.

      I've been using ALSA for audio. Freshrpms.net has ALSA (and other goodies) in convenient RPMs. I haven't tried using the FireWire port but everything else works. And it's trivial to run 400MHz FSB, regardless of your CPUs official spec. I'm running a 1700+ at 7.5x404MHz. MemTest86 verified the configuration.

    6. Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board by Cyno · · Score: 1

      Very cool. :)

      The firewire port is partially working, it just doesn't detect any of MY devices. But its either because I'm running a newer kernel and compiled their src rpm or maybe I just didn't try hard enough. Anyway, its very nice hardware. I hope the drivers become more stable soon so I can order some of this equipment for my dad and sis.

  9. Even if Intel succeeds... by VCAGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...what'll stop the overclockers/enthusiasts from turning on PAT? Won't that still eat into their sales of 875P based boards? Somehow, the fear of voiding our warranty never enters the equation...so what's the deterrent?

    --
    Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
    A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
    1. Re:Even if Intel succeeds... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      I doubt that Intel gives a damn about "overclockers/enthusiasts". They are a tiny part of the computer market. They may be more concerned about motherboard and computer vendors who sell computers with unsupported chipset configurations.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  10. PAT Motherboard by realcoolguy425 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Is that a Bannana in your PCI slot, or are you just happy to see me?

  11. ...stop reusing acronyms by throughthewire · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I read it as Port Address Translation. Expansion of acronyms would be helpful in the original post. -Chuck

  12. Re:HELP NEEDED!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's called patent, genius.

  13. So maybe I'm dumb and lazy by AlinuxNCSU · · Score: 1

    But would anyone be interested in defining PAT so that the ignorant among us can decide if this story is interesting?

    (Yeah yeah, rtfa. I will when I find out what PAT is, and then if I decide it's useful. ;-) )

    1. Re:So maybe I'm dumb and lazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like the ability in slashcode to add my own notes to users, so it shows up beside their posts.

      So your posts would show up like this:

      AlinuxNCSU (589202) -Dumb and Lazy- on Saturday June 28, @11:31AM (#6319464)

      I should get working on it. Naw, too dumb and lazy.

    2. Re:So maybe I'm dumb and lazy by Tancred · · Score: 1

      That's one of my pet peeves. Slashdot tends to do that a lot - people throw out acronyms from specialized fields and assume everyone knows what they're talking about. To me, PAT is a Point After Touchdown.

      Btw, I don't think you're lazy, or no more than most. Checking Slashdot is a good way to cover lots of interesting topics without having to go look at dozens of other sites. If you've got to go read the article to even know what the subject is, well that's just annoying.

    3. Re:So maybe I'm dumb and lazy by doug363 · · Score: 1
      What I gleaned from Tom's Hardware:

      PAT stands for "Performance Accelerating Technology" and is a CPU/chipset feature available only with Intel's high-end (consumer) chipset. It speeds up memory accesses by cutting out a clock cycle from the CPU/memory controller memory access request, and another clock cycle on the memory controller/DRAM interface. So DRAM accesses are two cycles earlier than they would otherwise be. I think the feature relies on asynchronous timing to eliminate the clock cycles.

      The feature is normally enabled only on the 875 chipsets when the FSB is running at 800 MHz, and was thought to be completely disabled on the 865 chipsets (which only support 400 and 533 MHz bus speeds ?). However, the 865 enables PAT enabled for 400 and 533 MHz FSB speeds. The 865 and 875 are the same chip in all other respects (similar to how Celerons were the same chip as their higher-end cousins, with defective/disabled cache).

      Asus have found out that the chipset doesn't disable PAT if it thinks the FSB/memory clock is running at 533 MHz, so they tell the chipset that the FSB is only 533 MHz but actually supply an 800 MHz FSB clock. There's a bit more fudging around with the clock generator and chipset register settings, but this is this gist of what happens.

  14. For those that were wondering... by JRHelgeson · · Score: 5, Informative
    PAT=Performance Acceleration Technology
    The 875P Canterwood chipset with PAT supposedly provides a 5-7% performance improvement over 865 chipset.

    WOO HOO!

    TMFA's! When will we start patenting acronyms?
    PAT=
    Port Address Translation
    Page Attribute Table
    and now Performance Acceleration Technology

    --
    Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
    1. Re:For those that were wondering... by lmfr · · Score: 3, Informative

      And for those wondering how to activate it in 865PE, there's an article at Tom's Hardware.

    2. Re:For those that were wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear some old racist republican just died. It's always sad when that happens I feel.

    3. Re:For those that were wondering... by David+McBride · · Score: 1

      Yup, that's NDAs for you.

      [NDA: Non-Deterministic Abbreviation]

    4. Re:For those that were wondering... by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      Point After Touchdown

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    5. Re:For those that were wondering... by cheezedawg · · Score: 1

      I really wouldn't recommend buying one of these Asus boards where they hacked the 865.

      As I understand it, there are 2 signals from the CPU to the northbridge that dictate what the FSB frequency is. The 875 northbridge takes these signals, and if they show that the FSB is 800MHz then PAT is enabled. The 865 northbridge is configured to disable PAT with an 800 MHz FSB.

      Now, what Asus has done is to hijack these 2 signals coming from the CPU, and always tell the northbridge that the FSB is 533 MHz. This allows them to enable the PAT, and to compensate for the lower FSB setting, they jack up the clock chip on the board and overclock the northbridge. The result is that the entire northbridge is running way out of spec, and there are probably tons of stability issues that will surface over time. Intel spends A LOT of money validating the supported configurations, and when a vendor is overclocking a chip by 50%, all bets are off.

      I don't think its worth it for a 5% increase in memory performance.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    6. Re:For those that were wondering... by lmfr · · Score: 1
      Well, it's not compulsory to use their version of PAT. It's enabled or disabled in the BIOS. I don't recall the default.

      Besides, don't you think preaching against overclocking doesn't suit most users of this forum? :)

    7. Re:For those that were wondering... by cheezedawg · · Score: 1

      The problem that I see is that Asus is not really disclosing that they are overclocking the northbridge, and that what they are doing could affect the system's stability. They are merely saying that they have enabled PAT. So not only are they enabling it on chips that Intel said didn't pass the test at the fab, they are overclocking the chip to exaggerate any problems. It just doesnt seem smart to me.

      Of course, you are free to do whatever you would like to with your chipset, but I think I want my memory controller to be as stable as possible :)

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    8. Re:For those that were wondering... by Aldrian · · Score: 1

      5-7% may not seem huge, but consider that if you bought a 3GHz processor and added 7% that it's now running at 3.2GHz.

      With the 3GHz priced at $417 and the 3.2GHz priced at $637, you are essentially saving $220 with this change, not to mention the $100 savings over the 875 board.

    9. Re:For those that were wondering... by aanantha · · Score: 1
      5-7% may not seem huge, but consider that if you bought a 3GHz processor and added 7% that it's now running at 3.2GHz.

      With the 3GHz priced at $417 and the 3.2GHz priced at $637, you are essentially saving $220 with this change, not to mention the $100 savings over the 875 board.

      Actually, the 875 board gives you that 5-7% increase by itself. This Asus hack just adds the same 5-7% speed increase to their 865 board. So you're only saving on the price difference between the 875 and 865, which is more like $70.

  15. Expand your acronyms, people! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first person to explain exactly what the hell PAT is will get modded up to (+5, Informative).

    1. Re:Expand your acronyms, people! by jfowlie · · Score: 1

      From www.vr-zone.com

      Intel 875P MCH is built on the FCBGA package that allows Dual Channel 4 layers PCB and is 37.5mm2 in size and has 932 pins count. Interestingly, 875P and 865P/PE/G share the same core and the only difference is that 875P falls on the right side of the manufacturing curve.

      Intel has specially selected the top quality chips that falls on the right side and separate from the rest and ran through a series of comprehensive tests to ensure robust operation for the 875P chipsets. As for the rest, they would be branded as Springdale chipsets and sold off cheaper. The chipset timings of the 875P are improved to allow faster memory access and lower latency therefore we can expect 875P to be faster than 865PE/G.

  16. Is PAT even worth it? by mattgarnsey · · Score: 1

    from what i've seen (tomshardware et al), 875's w/ PAT were only marginally out performing the 865's anyway.

    has anyone seen where this stuff significantly inproves performance?

    nonetheless, i'm waiting for the P5/Prescott before upgrading the ol' PC anyway...

    1. Re:Is PAT even worth it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prescott will NOT be P5. It's still a P4.

    2. Re:Is PAT even worth it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      from what i've seen (tomshardware et al), 875's w/ PAT were only marginally out performing the 865's anyway.

      Your geek liscence has been revoked, sorry. Performance at any cost is rule #1 in the GeekDex.

  17. What PAT Really is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Do not listen to the fools who think it's a 5-7% boost in blah blah blah... It's obviously a TV show that you watch and attempt the entire 1 season it's on, to determine whether or not that freak on the tv is a guy or a girl... and they'll keep messing with you, over and over again, until you can't tell the difference from guys and girls. Then you are really messed up, so then you have to get therapy like I did. Pat is merely a conspiricy to increase the number of patients in the looney bins!

    I leave you with this one warning: Do not buy a PAT motherboard unless you're sure it's a guy or a girl! (or the peoples in the white clothes will take you to the happy fun land, where the walls are soft, and the food is softer...)

  18. Prices by MC68040 · · Score: 4, Informative

    200-250 is not correct in many cases for the P boards, I just got a MSI 875P Neo board for around 150 and it has all the goodies like SATA and got excellent test results.

    1. Re:Prices by KingDaveRa · · Score: 1

      I recently bought the MSI Neo2-FISR (865 chipset) and its a really solid board. I'm quite impressed with it. Never thought I'd end up with an MSI board....

      Stranger things have happened I suppose!

    2. Re:Prices by mnemonic_ · · Score: 1

      Yes, the story author's prices were about $50-$100 above what they actually cost when purchased from a reasonable retailed (i.e. newegg, gameve etc.). The Abit IC7, regarded as one of the top i875 boards, can be found for $135. The IS7, an excellent i865 mobo can be found for about $100.

      P.S. This isn't a troll, but it seems that as much as most slashdotters know about linux, coding, and the like, they often seem to be a bit off on computer hardware. Of course they're by all means computer-literate, but their hardware knowledge seems a bit out of date or blended with assumption.

    3. Re:Prices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "P.S. This isn't a troll, but it seems that as much as most slashdotters know about linux, coding, and the like, they often seem to be a bit off on computer hardware. Of course they're by all means computer-literate, but their hardware knowledge seems a bit out of date or blended with assumption."

      I'd strongly disagree there. Most /.ers and especially linux users are extremely hardware savvy. They are the ones always ripping apart their PC's and building all sorts of projects. Linux users as a group are extremely well versed with PC hardware because unlike Windows users they don't get support from hardware manus. Many times you HAVE to learn hardware just so you can get it working.

      You seem to be basing your opinion on either the submitter or the editors hardware knowledge, which would be an inaccurate gauge.

      I'd put an average linux user up against the user of any other OS anyday of the week. It simply wouldn't be a contest. The average linux user usually knows PC hardware inside and out and at a much deeper level then a Windows or OS X user. It goes with the territory.

    4. Re:Prices by MC68040 · · Score: 1

      Yea, although you should be aware that the 875P NEO FISR-2 got the best benchmark results in a recent toms hardware roundup =).

    5. Re:Prices by h0tb0x · · Score: 1

      Those boards are excellent. I'm using one right now and it's probably the best system I've ever owned.

      --
      The phone, the bane of my existance, rings. "Hello, Computer Room" I say, being helpful - BOFH
  19. Intel could've easily solved this "problem" by StandardCell · · Score: 1

    What Intel should have done is to have "PAT" disabled through a physically inaccessable method, such as a different IC package, bondout (though this is probably flip-chip) or an on-chip fuse burnt at test.

    1. Re:Intel could've easily solved this "problem" by barureddy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most of the 865 chips are basically rejected 875 chips. Intel didn't want to waste the chips so they came up with the idea of just renaming them 865 and sell them as lower performing chips.

      Your right in that intel should have done something to permanently disable the chips.

    2. Re:Intel could've easily solved this "problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did on Bus frequencies below 800. Future versions of the chipset will have the PAT circuit blown at all frequencies.

    3. Re:Intel could've easily solved this "problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the 865 chips are basically rejected 875 chips.

      I know someone who worked on the 875 chipset and he says the only difference between the 875 and the 865 is the packaging. There are no binsplits involved.

  20. Even Buddha is laughing at this... by rmdyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "There is a constant pressure from Intel to advise motherboard manufacturers not to offer PAT into their 865PE boards but on the other hand, there is a considerable amount of pressure from consumers demanding PAT in their 865PE boards. There is a great dilemma faced by the motherboard manufacturers here whether to include the PAT feature or not. However to keep the sales going, it is advisable add in PAT into their 865PE boards to keep the consumers happy."

    All of this worry over $100 bucks difference? That amounts to about 1 days work for most of us. We are more lazy than I ever suspected! Arguably, this is what leads to early psychosis. ;-)

    +2 cents.

    1. Re:Even Buddha is laughing at this... by pigscanfly.ca · · Score: 1

      some of us arent so rich (read : university student) . If I can save $100 thats a big deal to me . As for days of work , once that 100us becomes cad (hey I'm canadain no laughing) that works out to about three days of work give or take for me.

    2. Re:Even Buddha is laughing at this... by p3d0 · · Score: 1
      After rent/mortgage, food, car, and everything else, most people probably have about 20-40 days' worth of disposable income to spend every year. If you want to toss that away one day's worth at a time, be my guest, but don't be surprised if someone finds 1 day's pay to be a significant amount to worry about.

      Also, you're talking about end-customers that will be buying just one of these things. But your quote was about Intel (who will sell millions of them) and mobo manufacturers (who will buy millions of them). Now you're talking some fraction of a billion dollars. Is that enough to worry about yet?

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    3. Re:Even Buddha is laughing at this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And some of us make $100us in less than 25 minutes of work and we still think it worthwhile to save it. Leaves more money for hookers and tequila -- you gotta have your priorities.

  21. IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a test.

    This is only a test.

    You may safely ignore this comment...

    9705b8ae38b02e72615705b88d171fba316559fe6e6881df 2c 3dd00c6981986899a072d4f199643b4d2d16b9b606ceec

  22. IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a test.

    This is only a test.

    You may safely ignore this comment...

    2c1d21e96a6d80a69a395b6ff1956367b82a19c881efb18e 9d 1bce58f3d9c3a2cc027da728f50ce9f8b60fbbb9277cf1a2bc 9a43d2ec3fb9faf05fa563c895155c3d1842b10c89eca46906 ea65a60c0337a351003761ff2fda6718e4901fd210f103193d 122b58be30f09df993eca8c13632435cf99eec2a53ee7e4d8e eab451

  23. Get em while you can. by twistedemotions · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Word out of Intel is that there is a future revision of the 865 chipset will have PAT disabled in hardware before being shipped to motherboard manufacturers. The system will just lock up if they try to enable it.

    So keep in mind this situation is temporary.

  24. And now... by I+start+fires · · Score: 0

    PAT=Patented Acronym Technology

    --
    "I've been called worse things by better people." -Pierre Elliott Trudeau after being called an asshole by Richard Nixon
  25. If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. by Eevee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It may be less than a day's work difference in price, but that doesn't mean it's insignificant. Imagine if someone offered to sell you a candybar for $100. Which would you say: "Gee, that's less than a day's pay." or "You've got to be kidding."

    If you're paying $150 for a motherboard without PAT and $250 for one with PAT, that's a 66% markup for 7% performance increase. Not all that impressive of a deal.

  26. Gah? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

    So Intel released hardware with features disabled...hmm sounds like their usual [i487] tactics...

    Boo Intel...

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  27. Why all the LOSERS come out today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why all the LOSERS come out today I don't want to now.

  28. Quote huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, I'd rather not start thinking about 2 guys and a hole in the wall... college or not.

  29. Commercial Viability by Detritus · · Score: 4, Informative

    This feature is useless for business applications where reliability is essential. While the PAT logic is in the 865 chipset, Intel does not guarantee that it has passed chip-level testing. It may work, it may not work, it may only work over a limited temperature range. It falls into the same category as overclocking the CPU. You don't know if the chip passed the test for a higher classification and was marked for a lower speed to satisfy market demand, or if it failed the test for reliable operation at the higher classification. If you want that guarantee, you pay the premium for the 875P.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Commercial Viability by JRHelgeson · · Score: 1
      From the article at Tom's Hardware:

      As is already well known, Springdale and Canterwood chipsets are completely identical during wafer production. Intel in fact makes a preselection, which then leads to different packaging. Intel explains this step with the following: only when a chip does not pass the PAT test does it become the lesser-value Springdale (provided that all other quality tests have been passed).

      From the beginning, Intel put safety precautions into place that would ensure that the board manufacturers couldn't easily activate the fast memory access (PAT) with the less expensive 865 chipset. The price difference with the chipset alone is at least $16, which results in a difference of up to $55 per board for the end user.

      --
      Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
    2. Re:Commercial Viability by cheezedawg · · Score: 1

      As I posted here, Asus's solution to enable PAT in the 865 involves overclocking the northbridge, so not only are you trying to enable PAT on a chip that did not pass the tests at the fab, you are running the chip way out of spec. Not good.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
  30. Re:HELP NEEDED!!! by Ath · · Score: 1

    Have them sign an NDA before you show it to them. But you will want a patent if it is a patentable invention.

  31. So..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...what's PAT? Why is it important? Why should I care?

  32. Because that isn't what their doing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Below is the article that the grandparent post linked to. The website is run by former Israeli military intelligence personel. Gee, do you think they might be a little biased in the stories they select to translate? Anyway, the Guardian article:

    Selective Memri

    Brian Whitaker investigates whether the 'independent' media institute that translates the Arabic newspapers is quite what it seems

    Monday August 12, 2002

    For some time now, I have been receiving small gifts from a generous institute in the United States. The gifts are high-quality translations of articles from Arabic newspapers which the institute sends to me by email every few days, entirely free-of-charge.

    The emails also go to politicians and academics, as well as to lots of other journalists. The stories they contain are usually interesting.

    Whenever I get an email from the institute, several of my Guardian colleagues receive one too and regularly forward their copies to me - sometimes with a note suggesting that I might like to check out the story and write about it.

    If the note happens to come from a more senior colleague, I'm left feeling that I really ought to write about it. One example last week was a couple of paragraphs translated by the institute, in which a former doctor in the Iraqi army claimed that Saddam Hussein had personally given orders to amputate the ears of military deserters.

    The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with recently-opened offices in London, Berlin and Jerusalem.

    Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.

    Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap between the west - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media".

    Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy whenever I'm asked to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.

    The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they don't want suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington Times, June 20).

    This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute that simply wants to break down east-west language barriers.

    The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

    Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."

    Memri might, of course, argue that it is seeking to encourage moderation by highlighting the blatant examples of intolerance and extremism. But if so, one would expect it - for the sake of non-partisanship - to publicise extremist articles in the Hebrew media too.

    Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can't recall receiving any.

    Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel".

    That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.

    1. Re:Because that isn't what their doing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Nobody, so far as I know, disputes the general accuracy of Memri's translations but there are other reasons to be concerned about its output."

      Which says it all. The Former Soviet Useful Idiots at the leftist Guardian newspaper don't like people contradicting their warped worldview, so they attack the source.

      "Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations..."

      CAIR is a Hamas front group. The liberal Salon.com, of all places, wrote the definitive expose.

      "It is not difficult to see what Arabs might do to counter that. A group of Arab media companies could get together and publish translations of articles that more accurately reflect the content of their newspapers."

      But why should they, when the Useful Idiots will do it for them?

  33. Asus P4P800 Deluxe. How high can it go? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got this mobo 3 weeks ago and am running a P4 2.6C at 2.8 Ghz. This is probably a bit conservative for the overclocking crowd. Although I would like to have it run faster, I am a bit apprehensive as I can't afford to lose real work, even if it's just a hour. Anyone know of any place where I can get good advice on how to push this particular board?

  34. Re:BAN *THIS* MUTHAFUCKAS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    its fucking shitheads like you that get half of my good open proxies banned. the real trolls on slashdot poop on your half assed attempt at trolling

  35. and... by jfowlie · · Score: 1

    From www.xbitlabs.com

    This one gives more of a question-and-answer format to PAT.

  36. Explanation of joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't, so it obviously wasn't a very good joke. Care to enlighten us?

    1. Re:Explanation of joke. by |<amikaze · · Score: 1

      http://us.imdb.com/Title?0110169

  37. Pat Robertson sues Intel by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 0
    Following in the footsteps of well-known (but not as well-known as he thinks he is) director Spike Lee suing over Spike TV, well-known television evangelist Pat Robertson has filed suit against Intel Corporation regarding the use of the acronym PAT.

    Robertson is quoted as saying: In order to squeeze this much additional performance out of the mature PC platform and then call it PAT, people might believe that I have prayed for divine intervention on the part of Intel Corporation. This is not the case. Despite the holy wars raging in the PC industry, I have yet to take sides, as might be implied by the usage of the name PAT. I hope for a speedy contribution -- er, resolution -- to solve this problem.

    Other Pats are yet to be heard from.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  38. Not as easy as overclocking by Aldrian · · Score: 1

    A lot of posters have stated that users could add PAT technology on their own as simply as they would overclock a chip. Unfortunately, this isn't quite true. The hack that Asus originally developed, and which other MotherB manufacturers are starting to copy is rather complex. ASUS realized that when the MotherB was functioning at a reduced FSB speed (e.g. not 800MHz), the PAT technology was working, however due to the reduced bus speed, the performance was lacking. So, what they had to do was first to force the MotherB into a reduced bus speed, which then turned on PAT, and then to make the MotherB actually function at 800Mhz, while still thinking it was running at a reduced FSB bus speed. This involved a number of hacks to the BIOS.

    The good news it that the motherboard manufacturers aren't forcing this change onto users. Rather, an option is in BIOS so the user can choose whether or not to take the risk of adding PAT to a system that may not be designed to handle it (depending on whether the PAT was originally just turned off or the motherb was speed-binned due to failing the PAT test for the 875).