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Ostrich Lessons In Oregon?

Posted by Hemos on from the going-for-the-cheap dept.

dalslad writes "Oregon Schools Prove Linux Saves Money, says the headline but this article says "One has to wonder if Northwest school districts took ostrich lessons; they must represent the biggest secret in the Linux community. If their successes occurred in New York, Microsoft would be fighting for 5% of the PC desktop share". Maybe so? I've seen a lot of sites with Linux success stories, but the K12 Linux projects show progress I never knew existed." Yeah, I don't think that the schools are going to prove to be the sole factor in Linux on the desktop, but it's a good step. More importantly, I think the success of the system depends on projects like the K12 Linux project and its like, especially for broader individual usage.

14 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. and if you act now.... by sweeney37 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    With Microsoft's desire to have complete market dominance, how long before they start offering schools free, or cut-rate discounts all under the guise of "charity"?

    Get 'em hooked early, then they'll never be able to stop using it.

    Mike

    1. Re:and if you act now.... by mmol_6453 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When I was in elementary school (K-6), my schools used Apples and Macs. (Remember that Apple did the whole "charity" thing once, too.) I don't think it had much of an impact on the students. It didn't have any affect on me or anyone I knew. The only reason I'd get a Mac would be to get a piece of that IBM's 970 processor.

      Unfortunately, I expect the same will be true of exposure to Linux. Most of the benefits that schools will see in Linux systems will come from the administrative end. To get exposed students interested in running the platform at home, there'll have to be computer clubs and activity groups that take advantage of the benefits of Linux.

      --
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    2. Re:and if you act now.... by thornist · · Score: 5, Interesting

      With Microsoft's desire to have complete market dominance, how long before they start offering schools free, or cut-rate discounts all under the guise of "charity"?

      In South Africa they've already done this. In fact the story goes that the Department of Information were making very positive noises about a state pro-open source policy a couple of years ago, and then just a couple of days later Gates had flown out to meet Mbeki and Mbeki was announcing the "generous" gift of free MS software for all South African educational institutions (don't have time to seek out the reference for this story right now).

      In South Africa the issue is more than just getting people hooked to the company. Bigger than that for us is the question of being dependent on the US for our IT infrastructure. What happens if South Africa falls into disfavour with the mighty America and we cease to be able to get software or support, but all our data is tied into MS proprietary formats.

      Open source is a question of sustainability and survival for countries like mine.

    3. Re:and if you act now.... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Heh. You're taking exactly the wrong tack. Computer literacy is not about which software you know. We deployed StarOffice at a company and they cried and cried and cried because it wasn't MS, nevermind that, when they had been using MS they had to share 5 computers with MS on it. (Gov't agency; get audited all the time.) These people were complete computer idiots. I mean their big problem with the Linux desktop was that they didn't like the fonts.

      Turn this around; take an applicant who's just coming in for a job that requires a spreadsheet, a wordprocessor, and some sort of presentation software. What's going to impress you? Someone who just knows MS Office 2k, and gets hysterical when you give them Office 97 or Office XP. Or someone who has a good grounding in something a little different. "Have you ever used Word?" "No, but I've used Writer, Abiword, Islandwrite, and Emacs." Shows you've got flexibility, and that you've done something more than use yer grandmothers computer."

      Just my opinion.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  2. Schools aren't the defining factor? by binarytoaster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yeah, I don't think that the schools are going to prove to be the sole factor in Linux on the desktop, but it's a good step.
    Remember way back when, when Apple donated a bunch of Macs to the schools? Yeah, then the parents all bought Macs for compatibility and because their kids knew how to use them.

    That was when computers were new; however, teaching them how to use Linux at a young age can affect how they decide later on. Now when they see Linux, they won't think "Ugh, I'm not going to be able to use it, so even if it is free..." - they'll be thinking "Hmm, I learned how to do this in school, maybe I'll try it at home."

    This is a nice step...

  3. My Wife and Kids (slightly OT) by under_score · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Linux is great. I personally use it as a server (along with FreeBSD), and I have RH8 running in a desktop configuration. However, I still haven't completely rid myself of Windows because I am lacking certain types of software that will run on Linux. Dreamweaver for myself and my wife, and a multitude of educational games for our kids.

    So I have a question... what is available to replace this type of software? I haven't heard of _any_ educational games for kids! Is there some other way that I can solve this problem?

    --
    Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
  4. Personally involved in Oregon (portland) linux... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was personally involved in pushing for linux use in school networks, and met with huge amounts of resistance - especailly immediately after that point at which MS threatened to audit Portland public schools with their gestapo license enforcement crap. I swear to honest god someone on the school board was getting paid off or some shit.

    We installed linux at a few schools anyway, on their network cores, only to come back later and see that the admins had come around and installed win2k right behind us.

    I wonder why MS isn't offering these cut rates to schools like they do to countries and organizations that are threatening to use OSS.

    Fuckers.

  5. Maybe... by Infernon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think that the schools are going to prove to be the sole factor in Linux on the desktop, but it's a good step.

    Maybe it won't be the sole factor, but it sure as hell is going to make a huge difference. Think of all of the lucky kids who are getting to know Linux at a young age and take that knowledge and (hopefully) preference into adulthood.

  6. linux educational software... by WPIDalamar · · Score: 4, Interesting


    I work for an educational software company... and I've never heard of anyone asking for linux versions of any of our products. If you want companies to make linux versions, you need to get on the ball and ask for them... hint hint...

  7. Impressive by YeeHaW_Jelte · · Score: 4, Interesting

    With K12 linux, I found this especially impressive:

    "On the server side, two Compaq servers--a 933MHz dual-processor ML370 and a 1GHz dual-processor ML350--run Red Hat Linux and support about 220 concurrent users. "

    220 users! Thats 220 times the price difference between a thin and a 'fat' client, minus the servers.

    --

    ---
    "The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
  8. Sometimes you don't want attention? by Build6 · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Does anyone else think these guys now have a big bulls-eye painted on them? I'm no historian, but from what I remember of revolts that weren't crushed (heads on sticks, bodies swinging from gallows, babies thrown onto bonfires etc.) is that there needs to be a critical mass before being able to withstand the (lethal) reactions of any oppressive tyrant. One single village aflame with the spirit of revolution pretty quickly becomes aflame in a physical sense when the imperial troops arrive.

    Some new MS "education initiative" for those special school districts? Something else? How hard is it to replace the education board with different membership with different ... priorities?

    Then again, maybe I'm just operating under FUD/paranoia... .

  9. Re:Linux isn't feasible for education by gentgeen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It all comes down to what the kids and teachers are using the computers for. I'm a teacher at a small charter school. We house about 250-300 students between the middle and high school grades. We have a lab for the middle school and a lab for the high school. Each teacher has a computer in the room. All of the computers in the building are WinXP, including the servers. The majority of the time kids are in the lab they are using either MS Office or the Internet. We have some educational software, but not a lot. That is a lot of tech money wasted in my eyes.

    I set up a K12LTSP server in my classroom with a total of 8 terminals. Although the kids spend some time crying about it. (This is an old computer, this isn't MS blah, etc), once they say that it did the same things -- No more crying. If fact many kids have come to use my computer instead using the ones in the lab.

    It really just comes down to what you use it for. If the teacher's/students are not using a lot of the special software, why pay all the extra cash. Why not set up 1 lab with Windows/Mac for the software and one with K12LTSP for Internet, Office apps, etc. You just saved yourself 50% of your budget.

    P.S. - Linux does have some great ed games and apps (see the Seul/Edu Application Index. They are just a little harder to find then"Mathblaser"

  10. yup.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I dunno.. seemed like when I went through school (K-12) it was pretty much all Apple computers .. Apple IIe, IIgs, Mac classic, Power macs, etc..

    Did using that platform cause me (or my peers) great pains when using Windows? nah..

    Why not?

    Simple -- the concepts are the same. Both platforms (as well as Linux) have word processors, spreadsheets, games, databases, etc. Nowadays, both can access web content, email, multimedia titles, etc.

    So whats my point? Schools are for EDUCATION. K-12 schools should NOT be thought of as a place to train youngsters for the job market. By not providing a microsoft centric platform, it will force the student to separate concepts of computing from the implimentation/interface of computing.

    Unfortunately, like many have noted (and I have experienced) so much computer 'training' is simply telling people to click this icon, type in this text and presto, it works. Essentially, training consist of learning the interface, but not really learning the concepts. As a result, when the interface changes, instead of seeing similar concepts between different platforms, these individuals are completely dumbfounded and need to be 'reprogrammed'.

    Sure, when a student gets to college or a trade school, they should learn the applications that will ultimately get them a job. However, by understanding that there is more than just one way to accomplish a task will undoubtedly provide more flexibility in their thinking patterns and increase their overall producitivity to the organization (easier to train on a new platform, able to think of concepts instead of "cookbook step by step instructions", etc..)

  11. Ostriches? I think not! by Doug+Loss · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Folks, let me tell you how it is. I lead SEUL/edu. Right now, I'm with Paul Nelson and Eric Harrison (and a bunch of kids from Riverside High School in Portland), representing K12LTSP, and Harry McGregor of the Open Source Education Foundation at the National Educational Computing Conference in Seattle. We're doing the evangelism where it's needed, in the educational community, rather than were it isn't, in the Linux community. Linux folks already are convinced of its usefulness, but folks in education need persuasion.

    That's one of the reasons you may think we're being very quiet--we're not talking directly to you! But if you're interested in what's actually going on with open resources in education, go to any of the websites above, or to Schoolforge and look around and follow the links.

    Another reason is that whenever we've submitted links about such things to /. (I asked Paul about this a minute ago, and his experience has been the same as mine) they have been rejected. If you're not interested in telling people about what's being done, don't expect them to know about it! We've stopped submitting our stories here, since they're never used. We try to use our energy more constructively now, but submitting our stories to educational journals, etc.