Slashdot Mirror
Apple-Quality Intel Laptops?
arashiakari asks: "I have to buy a new laptop soon and I am having trouble settling on a brand or model except one that I cannot use. Apple's iBook laptop is beautiful, functional, lightweight, and made of high quality materials. I would buy one today except that I am a professional programmer and MUST use the same platform my compiler targets: Intel. So far each Intel-based laptop I have looked at is both grossly over-decorated (Compaq, Toshiba) and made of cheap flimsy materials (Dell), or has the combined problem of being overpriced and under-powered - with external bays for everything (Sony). IBM is expensive, but they are as close as I've found to "right" ... with Toshiba in second place. It seems like Intel-based laptops are either hot ugly tanks or oversized PDAs, there seems to be a scarcity of balanced well-thought-out and produced machines. Does the Slashdot have any suggestions?"
I do all of my development on my IBM Thinkpad T23, with built-in wireless and Ethernet. It is a workhorse and has not let me down. IBM is a great company with excellent support for their products.
-
Which Compaqs have you looked at? I agree that their consumer/home versions are pretty cheesy looking.
We use the Evo N800c model at work. They look professional, are very reliable, and work with everything we've tried. We've been all Compaq except laptops up until the past year (IBM Thinkpads). Once I saw the newer Evo notebooks, we switched over to the Compaq laptops as well. The IBM's were great too, just pricey as you said. I don't even normally put my Compaq in a case unless I need extra peripherals or are traveling very far with it. It's pretty sturdy.
Before Thinkpads, we used all Toshibas. They were great a few years ago. I think their build-quality and reliability has gone down though, at least based on the ones we've bought.
Jason
"FORMAT C:" - Kills bugs dead!
What I've always liked about Apple's notebooks is their ability to make the right compromises between size, weight, cost, speed, expandability, etc. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I agree with you that they're usually a lot better thought out than most of the wintel notebooks out there. You're better off asking yourself what your priorities are in a portable machine, and then picking a box that was built with the same priorities as you. As you said, the VAIO line is well designed, but often lacks features and speed. Do you need that extra speed? If you're looking for a devel machine then maybe you should just bite the bullet and buy a chunkier box.
Another poster suggested testing your apps in VPC on the Mac, but I think a virtual machine is the last place you want to be debugging test code. Any chance you could move to high level development? That way the test platform wouldn't really matter, just use your OO language of choice.
Don't knock HTML email. It makes my life easier, since I
I was roughly on the same quest as you a year ago. I spent too much time searching for online product reviews that it eventually crush my head. I decided to go to a local computer mall, and browse around the products that I've reviewed online. The product that I actually picked was none of that I thought was good (based on the reviews), it was a Fujitsu Lifebook S Series (6010); as I expected it's the closest thing that can come to iBook's quality, screen is definetly the best of all other notebooks I've used (Dell, Compaq, Toshiba, Vaio, Acer, Gateway, etc), the magnesium alloy screen cover is very solid. And oh, it has a superdrive--the same one used in ibooks!
All in all, it's the tiny bits of design detail that catch my attention on this well built pc, fujitsu actually manufacture it themselve in Japan, unlike others that usually outsource their production line to taiwan.
I would suggest you to go and check out the physical product yourself, ask for a live demo, try launching programs, use the disk, connect to an external mouse just like how you'd use the computer; a 20 minute of physical test is much better then a 2 weeks of reading online reviews.
With all the big names flying around, have you considered an Alienware machine? They're not the lightest in the world but they look to be fairly high quality.
They bill for games, but performance is performance.
I researched what was available pretty extensively, and chose an IBM Thinkpad G40.
I wanted something powerful, but this was for home, so price was very much a consideration. I looked hard at a couple of Toshiba's, and at the Dell range, but the IBM came in at a slightly lower price for the features I wanted, and I know from experience that Thinkpads are high quality. I did also look at the iBooks, but the prices were way too high for the feature set.
For what it's worth, I wanted 40 Gb / 512 Mb/ DVD/CR-RW combo / 15" screen / XP Pro / 2 GHz or better processor. Size / Weight / battery life weren't an issue. The G40 I bought has a 2.4 GHz processor. Unlike most Thinkpads, it doesn't have removable drives. I was willing to cut the iBook some slack on processor speed (although the ones I tried in store were very slow; they were short on RAM as displayed).
Relative price probably varies from country to country, and month to month, so if you live in a different country from me (probable), and since my purchase was a month ago, you might find something else works better for you.
Sager laptop owner forums
Sager reseller
It may be a somewhat unknown brand, but I have been totally blown away with it. Check out the specs and the forums.
The thing you have to do is understand why IBM and Apple are at the top of their markets.
One reason...they build their own Notebooks...take a look at this page and then you'll understand why...
The short answer is Alienware, Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, etc are all made by the same companies...chances are they are all the same laptop.
Sony, IBM, and Apple all used to design their own notebooks...Apple kind of has to (yet they still use ODMs to assemble their boxen), and Sony and IBM have started to slip recently (using some of Quanta's ODM systems).
But if you want to find out how good the notebook is, find out who really made it.
Of course, you can always buy from the site that I linked to. They will sell notebooks without an OS and even have a Linux Forum. Not to mention they have unmatched customer service.
I work in a shop that sees a ton of desktop's and laptops alike, and the only ones I never see for hardware problems are the Thinkpads. I personally use a beefed up T20 w/a 900MHz PIII and a DVD/CDRW drive, and I couldn't imagine using another laptop (besides the 15" TiBook I lust over). They're built like tanks. I dropped my TP 600 prior to this one about 5 times from 4 feet up before I gave it to my mom. She still uses it for school. Just avoid the i series. They're built like compaqs.
If you are just targetting Intel processors with open source tools, you shouldn't have any problems. If you need to target a non-gnu platform, however, well then you need a really good laptop to compensate for the hassles.
I was fairly satisfied with a Sony VAIO that a previous employer insisted on paying too much for. (I submitted the specs for an iBook, but they insisted on spending more money) Of course it not only cost more, but ended up needing repairs more often.
I bought an iBook on my own, but really haven't seen a PC laptop that I would buy on my own yet.
My advise is to concentrate on the features you most like in a PowerBook/iBook. Is it the display? The ports? General durability? Running a GUI desktop and a Unix shell at the same time?
If the latter is a factor, as in you might want to do some network analysis in the field, then you want to pre-validate that the laptop you're looking at can be partitioned and dual-booted with either Linux or BSD.
I just bought an IBM Thinkpad R40 a couple months ago, and all I can say is it's great. Works wonderfully out of the box with Linux and FreeBSD, is very fast (Pentium M), great battery life (around 4-5 hours), very nice screen, and great construction. I've been impressed. It's a big step up from my previous Compaq Presario, and not significantly more expensive.
-- "Big Brother is Watching..."
Well, Virtual PC is still incapable of splitting its PC tasks and using a Mac's second processor for anything more trivial than drawing the window border. It's still slower than it should be, but not as slow as you imply. A $1000 Mac can generally run programs well enough to check them.
Twelve fingers or one, its how you play. ~Gattaca (Vincent)
2. Become a stockholder. Stockholders also get access to discounts.
3. eBay. The IBM store on eBay has some sweet deals.
If you save enough money you can go out and buy a cheap iBook as well. Have the best of both worlds.
Lasers Controlled Games!