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On Obtaining Appropriate Compensation...
wpc4 asks: "I've been working at my current place of employment in California for going on 2.5 years. I work for a rather big HMO providing IT support for over 2000 users. In my time there I have had no negative feedback, I am the "go to" for the department, I have improved our service area's image to other IT departments in our organization, had one promotion, and so forth. I am currently making over $5k less than the minimum for my title, while some new employees just got hired with the same title and lesser skills as myself and were hired on at over 30% more than I make, yet I have 2.5 years of seniority. Since I'm not union I don't appear to have any way of trying to get myself compensated appropriately, is there anything in the California labor laws that I can pull into play? Any suggestions at all before I look for other employment?"
...have you tried asking?
The points you make are all reasonable. If you're genuinely as useful as you claim, management would certainly be receptive, especially in light of the discrepancy between your salary and that of the new hires (which they may simply not realize until you point it out). This could very well end up being a non-issue for you.
And don't threaten to quit on your initial approach, if you do ask. Most of my bosses have never responded well to confrontational employees, if they weren't given the chance to right a wrong in the first place.
There is often a "loyalty penalty" in organizations. Someone who works for many years and gets yearly raises will make less than someone who comes in at market rates. It sucks but it's very common.
Advice: on VPS providers
1. Update your resume and get it out there.
2.Approach your boss and HR about a salary adjustment. Not a raise, a salary adjustment.
A Salary adjustment is justified by bringing your compensation in line with new hires with the same title and grade.
A Raise is based on merit and a review.
Then again, is $200/month after taxes worth raising a stink? I tend to not worry until the discrepancy is closer to 10%.
Either way, first get the resume out there for a week or two. You will need to see what is happening incase the alternative given by the company is that you will have to wait for your review.
Just remember, a salary is better than unemployment.
There is no law to protect you, only company policy. Unless you really want the definition of "at will employment."
Or to learn how a 1 person layoff comes about.
"Huh? How can you be making less than the minimum? What minimum are you talking about?"
He pays them to work there.
"Derp de derp."
..."You are lucky to have a job in this economy so shut up and take it" post.
So let's pipe down and not have to wade through another million of them, hm?
Seniority should mean crap imo. I think this concept of seniority is blown to shreds when the less senior member of a department is more valuable and know more then the senior ranking member.
Talk about value. You have a value to this company. If you guess that value, and believe you should be paid more then act on it. If you are wrong (over inflated ego) be prepared to be slapped down.
-Malakai
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
You _THINK_ you deserve a raise so your going to call up a lawyer????
I don't understand this mindset. It's insanity. No wonder you can't throw a stone and not hit a lawyer these days (who will sue you).
-malakai
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
But the first thing to do is go and talk with your manager. Tell them you like your job but don't feel you are being fairly compensated, etc.
But, depending on where you work some companies will only do large salary adjustments if you have an offer from somewhere else for them to match/beat. Even if they don't have a policy like this, having an offer from somewhere else gives you leverage for getting a raise.
In my time there I have had no negative feedback...
Yeah, but have you received any positive feedback while you've been there? (I know you mention one promotion your got -- but anything else?) Maybe they think you're just an average employee.
GMD
watch this
What got you into that position? At what point did you not get what you deserve?
I ask because I'm in the same boat. I got promoted during a salary freeze. No raise for me, so I'm under the minimum for my title as well.
I haven't resolved the problem, mainly because my company really is under financial pressure. It's hard to demand a raise when all of management took a 20% paycut so that use peons wouldn't get burned. (I wonder how many of you are hearing a story like that for the first time!)
However, if my company were to get on its feet again and continue to underpay me, I'd probably start shopping around for a new job. I'd likely play the "I have another offer, raise me or lose me" card. Unfortunately, I wouldn't dare do this without somewhere to go.
Okay, not a great solution, but I'd like to know how you got into that pickle.
"Derp de derp."
He must work in Soviet Russia then.
But has others have said, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you say anything like "or else I walk". NEVER.
HOWEVER, you should begin preparing a backup strategy - update your resumee and start looking at other jobs in the area. Begin asking yourself if you are willing to relocate. In short, start looking for another job.
This is for the following reasons:
It is far better to start looking NOW, while you are relatively cool about it, than to get so pissed off that one day your mouth acts before your brain. I have a friend who did that - told them "Take this job and shove it" and walked out. He damn near lost his car and home before getting another job, and that was during better times than now!
www.eFax.com are spammers
"Huh? How can you be making less than the minimum? What minimum are you talking about?"
Insightful? It isn't obvious? Most places have a salary range for any given title. "The miminum we pay a nurse is $16 an hour". He's below that. Using the example I gave, he's a nurse making $13 an hour. Not trying to bash you (or the moderator) dude, but I'm a little baffled as to why that comment didn't make sense to you.
My question is: did he get into that position by a field promotion, or did they hold him back because he didn't have a full education in his field or something?
I for one am sick of hearing people go on about their job like it's their birthright to have a good job at good pay.
If your job stinks... look for a better one.
If your job doesn't pay well... look for a better one.
Your boss isn't required (nor should be) by law to provide you with cake and also let you eat it.
The ball is in your court.
~foooo
Didn't work:(
I'm making the assumption that you haven't already since you don't mention as much in your post. But why don't you ask for appropriate compensation?
Why resort to leaving or invoking labour laws, why not schedule a meeting with your direct superior and discuss your concerns?
If that doesn't acheive the desired result, schedule a meeting with the next management level above them. Once you've exausted all of those avenues, then that would be the time to consider taking the actions that you mentioned.
That said, in a down market like we tend to be in now, companies will tend to leave your salary alone and bring in people with lower salaries because that is all it takes to recruit someone into the company.
In my career, the only time I have gotten BIG increases in salary is when I have changed jobs (most of the time reluctantly, but twice because I wanted too) getting over 50% increases when I leave (vs. getting 5-10% raises for staying). This is the bassis for what I was saying above.
How do you deal with this. It depends on your faith in your job skills, and the relationship that you have with your management chain. Do you go to your manager and say... Listen, I fell that my job title deserves this pay, please lets work on how to get it together, or if you think he is going out of his way to screw you on pay (many people think this, when all they have to do is really ask, but it is a posibility) then it might be worth looking for another position within the company, or outside the company. I would however not recomend it with todays economy, wait a year or so for tech jobs to pick back up so you aren't faced with the same problem in 3 years
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
That being said, I don't think you can assume that management is "receptive", even if you're a good employee. Management does stupid shortsighted things all the time -- that's what keeps Scott Adams in business! This particular situation is probably not due to malice or prejudice, but you really can't rule it out either.
The very first issue is to answer the question, Why are you being passed over? It might be simple oversight. It might be that somebody just doesn't like you. It might even be for a perfectly good reason you know nothing about.
Does your employer know that you surf the net and post 'Ask Slashdot' questions while at work. If they do, then I wouldn't ask for a raise. :)
One point I have not seen raised is the question of whether you like what you are doing. Sure, you could jump ship, but on the other hand there are expenses and hassles and risks with going in to a new place. I side with those who say "ask for a salary adjustment," if you are that worried about it. Or perhaps just hint... this worked for me after being under paid for a few years, I got two years of 18 and 20 percent raises. If you are comfortable and respected where you are, that is worth money in my estimation (especially if you get to go home on time every day).
Threatening to walk is NEVER the right answer.
Look at it from the boss's perspective - you just had to bribe an employee to stay. Now, how far do you trust that employee?
Just as I recommended to the employee to have a backup plan, I would recommend to the boss to have a backup plan - namely, start de-emphasising that employee - get them off critical path, get a second employee to be able to cover for them, start looking at how to replace them.
You are correct in that looking for another job might cause one to mentally commit to leaving, creating a self-forefilling prophecy. So would the boss's logical reaction: he is going to become able to replace the employee, and may very well do so.
If you have to threaten to quit in order to get your raise, you don't want to be working there.
Most bosses are clueful enough to realize that if an employee is asking about their salary, failure to meet the employee's request will result in the employee leaving - you'd have to be pretty stupid to say "Oh, you won't pay me what I'm worth. OK, well, back to my cube I go, dohp-dee-doh." And if your boss IS truly so stupid that he doesn't realise that, then do you want to be working for him?
www.eFax.com are spammers
Perhaps you will feel less put upon if you consider this: management can't fail to notice that you stuck with an undercompensated job. You can encourage them to understand that you're doing so because your in with them for the long haul. The resulting good will may be more valuable to you in the long term than that lost pay is in the short term.
I had been working for about 2 years and found out the new position equivelent to my own would be payed more. So I came in to my bosses office with my resume told him i quit and applied for the position.
We both knew I wasn't really quitting but it made my point and I got a small promotion and new salery a bit above the incomming position.
I don't recommend the quitting part but applying for the new position might not be a bad idea.
Any suggestions at all before I look for other employment?"
Take a dump on the coffee room floor.
This isn't rocket science.
From the context, it should be obvious that our complainant is stating that he makes $5k less than the average minimum paid for his level of experience, wherein "minimum" is the lower/lowest amount in the range normally paid the people doing the same job in his/her geographical area.
Not to be condescending, but professionals have no mandated minimum salaries, so the meaning should have been unambiguous.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
Sure, there is no need to have a State of the Union address prepared, but you should be able to prove that you are worth the extra money. The only way you can do that is to provide concrete examples of who you have helped improve service, the bottom line, customer satisfaction or whatever measurement the manager favours.
Don't assume that your boss knows what you do - half the time they don't. Actaully, half the time may be too generous. How do you expect to sell yourself (and let's not kid ourselves, that is what we are doing when we ask for a pay rise), if we don't do any selling?
I got a 15% payrise after I:
showed that compared to the market rates, my pay was below average
gave three examples of how I had generated additional revenue for the company, increased the efficiency of an area and demonstratably improved customer satisfaction.
All up, that took about a 1 minute to say.
Since I'm not union I don't appear to have any way of trying to get myself compensated appropriately
Of course not, with that attitude.
The best way is merely to mentione to your employer that you want more money. Mentioned that the less qualified are getting more. It would have worked for me. I was offered a 25% increase in salary for that very reason! I did leave, however, because i felt that they didn't care enough about me, and i found another job where i was more comfortable.
If you are truly valuable to them, and you ask, as oposed to complain, they will most probably help you.
Have you read my journal today?
You didn't mention your educational background. Do you have a college degree? Did the new hires that make more than you have college degrees? Lacking a college degree is often the cause of most salary discrepancies. If you don't have a college degree, it's most likely the thing holding you back. Yeah, it's stupid that a piece of paper can determine your salary more than actual knowledge and skill, but that's the world we live in. Talk to your boss and see if there's a way to get your company to help pay for that degree and earn that salary increase.
If you do have a degree, then you need to do some work. As many have suggested, sit down with the management, explain your position, and flat out ask them why you are being paid less. Prepare a resume of sorts that describes all of the ways you have contributed and improved things for your company. Any statistics and dollar figures you can use are the best ways to do this. Management likes to see cold hard numbers and dollar signs showing you saved money and increased efficiency. Make it as clear and objective as you can. If they refuse to look into the discrepancy, start looking for someplace else to work... and let them know you will be doing so.
Good luck!
Before you do anything, read Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In.
THEN, you tell your boss that, while you've enjoyed your run here, you've been made a better offer. Bring some boxes so you can clear out.
However! this is when your boss, who really stood to lose nothing before, may push harder for you to get a raise rather than losing you.
This was common practice where I used to work.
You never hung on up recruiters (always be polite) and keep your resume up to date and take a periodic long lunch for an interview.
I friend use to take 2 hrs every Wednesday afternoon and talk to other companies. He had a new boss who dicked around on his expense reports ("you're making me spend 4 hrs of my time trying to get reimbursed for $150 when you bill me out at $200/hr? Are you high?").
When new boss asked where he was going on his Wednesday, he said "job interview." and left. New Boss asked around, learned of the habit and knew that if they weren't a Good Place for this lucrative person to work, he'd leave. When my friend returned (from an interview at a hellish place), his signed and approved expense reports were on his desk.
If you truly get a better offer, by all means take it, but let your company make a counter offer and weigh that.
So Never threaten to leave.
Give notice and threaten not to stay. Unemployment sucks.