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SCO's Other Investor: Sun Microsystems
Vicegrip writes "Apparently Sun not only bought extra licenses from SCO, but also obtained the option to buy a nice stake in the company: 'The pact, signed earlier this year, expanded the rights Sun acquired in 1994 to use Unix in its Solaris operating system. But there's more to the relationship: SCO also granted Sun a warrant to buy as many as 210,000 shares of SCO stock at $1.83 per share as part of the licensing deal, according to a regulatory document filed Tuesday.'" A reader points out Ransom Love's 2000 Linuxworld keynote speech.
you should also note that the only reason for the expansion of the license was to allow sun to do intel hardware drivers under Solaris..soemthing they could have adpoted from Linux without any costs what so ever..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Granting Sun a warrant to buy shares, eh? Sounds pretty overconfident to me. I'll hop right on that bandwagon and buy into the sinking ship!
KappaStone
Since IBM has the option of planting a nice stake in SCO.
If SCO wins, and their shares skyrocket, Sun can still buy at $1.83. If they don't win? Well, no sweat off Sun's back - the deal was done in the past and is a sunk cost. I'd love to be in that spot.
Although Sun has broader rights than do other Unix licensees such as IBM and Hewlett-Packard, it doesn't have the right to release Unix source code or Sun modifications to it as open-source software, SCO spokesman Blake Stowell said.
... so *you* did, and, apparently well, you *did*. Therefore, you should just shut up now. M'kay?
Yeah...but...*flashback to Linuxworld 2000*
But clearly we are going to add components back to the Linux kernel on both IA-32 and IA-64 platforms. We'll work with Linus and everyone in order to make that available.
Thank you.
My journal has hot
I had a letter from Sun the other day trying to convince us to drop AIX and buy Solaris, on the assumption that we're 'concerned', and are scared we'd 'lose' our license to AIX....
Since the stock deal represents roughly 1.5% of SCO's outstanding shares, Sun would probably be better off taking the cash and running. Since SCO is currently trading around $11 a share, Sun could buy at $1.83, sell immediately and pocket about $2 million profit. Given the recent runup in the SCO stock price, perhaps Sun is waiting to see how much more they could make...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
What are Sun thinking? They want everyone to migrate off Sun boxes like people have been doing to SCO?
Stuff like this annoys techies and techies have quite a lot of influence over IT purchasing decisions in many businesses. Do Sun think that supporting SCO is going to win them more business than it will lose them? My understanding of business is that it is a very bad move to do stuff that your customers dislike...
Reading the article it seemed that this was primarily a purchase of code.
Sun purchased drivers and other stuff to use in its i86 version of Solaris, along with the rights to show that code to others.
As for the stock options; SCO probably needed the cash, Solaris had the cash so the directors of Sun decided to gamble. Solaris gets options for a price, and if SCO does good they stand to make a really nice profit. SCO gets some additional cash and has a little protection from Solaris since any action by Sun has to include potential profits from using the stock options.
Sun has been facing a dilemma for some time now. Originally a high-tier supplier, they're getting pushed down the chain. Once upon a time, they were an excellent choice for network infrastructure and servers. But now?
Even the largest companies who need big iron systems rarely go to Sun anymore. Google has shown that even using thousands of 'white boxes' works, and Apple, Microsoft, and even IBM have been muscling in on Sun's traditional market. The dot com days were great for Sun, but now they're left as a giant church without any congregation.
So Sun needs a way to exercise its muscle once again, and with its recent tie up with Oracle, it's starting to do this (albeit with help). If Sun can carve out a significant role in the SCO case, it could certainly cash in from the exposure, and any potential win for SCO.
Of course, I don't think SCO stands a chance, and that we're going to see traditional UNIX crash down around itself. Sun has always been a company that intrigues me in the amazing way it runs 'behind the scenes' (the 'Sun Library' is amazing! and their usability work is delightful).. but on the front end, they're sucking big time, IMHO, and I think they could be one of the next big technology fallers.
Who really cares anymore? Technically, this isn't news either. This is boring old propaganda which attempts to arouse the brainwashed masses (your typical Slashdot reader). SCO is just evil company of the month. Next month it will be Microsoft again. Just wait.
With this in mind, it would be wise to look on other Sun news with suspicion. For example, they are a safe harbor. Could Sun be playing Senator Palpatine to SCO's Darth Maul and Microsoft's Trading Federation?
SUN probably wouldn't call that "without any costs what so ever".
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
1. SCO could be picked up by Sun, since the latter has a better image in the market. That could give a boost to the battered image of SCO.
2. More and more, there seems to be some Coke-Pepsi posturing, with MS and Windows pitted against Sun& Unix. Linux is too well entrenched for such a thing to work.
3. All the firms who've picked up a stake so far in the Unix code patent have been American firms. This could be the beginning of some polarisation, where all important IP is within the US. This could have serious repercussions for firms like Fujitsu, Siemens etc. who aren't based in the US.
The saving grace: Any number of firms (SCO, Sun etc.) haven't managed to achieve a small fraction of the success which Linux has done - on the Intel platform. It appears too late now for anyone to rollback on the spectacular progress made by Linux.
If Sun does indeed pick up stakes in SCO, they'd be hated more than Microsoft - if ever that would be possible.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
If Sun are as bad as Microsoft, both buying junk SCO licences to fund their "kill Linux" crusade. I might as well develop apps in C# now my belief that Sun actually want to help the open source community.
Fuck Sco, Fuck Microsoft, Fuck Sun, Fuck a goat.
There is no god
I'd really like to know how SCO continues to distribute the kernel source GPL and all, and claim that code isn't covered by the GPL.
They seem to think SCO has merit because they're reserving the stock at a price, assuming it's going to shoot up (which it will, should SCO win the case).
--
Now playing: Leper Messiah (Metallica/Master of Puppets)
Think of it as open-source lawyering.
If I were a CIO or CTO debating the TCO of *nix vs. Win2K3 to a CEO, would IBM vs. SCO be the TKO that stops the CEO from approving A/P to pay my PO for RH's LGX?
0 41&cid=6232 258
FWIW, even if OSS is FAIB, if the DOJ considers *nix IP with a TM, then it basically become's SCO's LIC, meaning our OSS becomes a CSS OS, which would RSTBO.
AIBO going w/ an ASP that manages our OS? BTA, we might end up w/ a BOFH giving us ZA, which WWAD PMS.
AFAIK, INMP if SCO wants to be ITM by enforcing its supposed IPR - *nix IP should be PD or GNU, like BSD just on GP, IYKWIM. I keep asking myself in this situation - WWLD?
Oh, BTW - IITYWIMWYBMAD?
---
balls to the original:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=68
I don't think Sun's invovlment with SCO is particularly surprising - just as the MS marketing department are getting more fodder for thier battle against linux and the gpl, Sun's marketing department are getting fodder for thier battle with IBM/AIX.
As for the share options, that's like playing the lottery except that you only have buy your ticket if your numbers come up - it's highly unlikely that you're going win, but if you do you'll win big and it doesn't cost anything to play. This was probably just a little sweetener from SCO to get some extra cash in the war chest - enough to make Sun go from "That's a bit expensive for the marketing value" to "What the hell, have some cash"
Tk
At some point, somewhere, the entire internet will be found to be illegal.
Ransom Love. Nice man to work for SCO ;-)
Face it...Sun is a business, and all businesses have the number one goal of making money. Sun makes money off of proprietary software. There's no way that they will risk any of it becoming open source, unless it makes good financial sense. Jumping on the bandwagon and promising to add to Linux gave them good publicity at the time. I have no clue whether or not that move actually made them money, but it definately couldn't hurt. Fast forward a couple of years, and now it makes more financial sense to protect your source and buy code, rather then use GPLed software and be forced to release your code.
I honestly don't believe SCO has a snowball's chance in hell of winning, but there's a chance. And Sun, like any business, is looking to cash in with as little risk as possible. If that means kissing SCO's ass and throwing them some money, it's a calculated and well thought out risk. And if/when SCO get's beaten like a red-headed stepchild in court, what happens to Sun? Like Microsoft, they'll say they were protecting their interests as any business would. And people will lap it up, and their involvement in the whole thing will become a footnote in history. It will be business as usual, with the company looking at what moves will potentially make them money. If open source is where it's at again, then they'll throw some weight behind. It makes good financial sense...
Well yes, they aren't making "Sun Linux" any more. However it was just Red Hat under the covers. Now they just call it RedHat. Move along, nothing to see here.
Coincidence?
yes
Clearly, Sun is on our side.
Except they announced nothing of the sort. Sun announced that they were going with 'Industry Standard' Linux distributions on the X86 servers they are shipping as customers weren't really interested in the Sun specific distribution that was 'Sun Linux 5.0'. On the Intel based kit they now sell you can buy and get support for Red Hat directly from Sun, or you can go with Solaris x86 and obviously get support for that too. Otherwise you are free to put whatever you like on the boxes.
Wow, I feel like any loyalty and good will I had toward Sun just went out the window!
I don't care if its for their shitty Intel version of Solaris, which just doesn't perform -- and doesn't have the widespread driver support -- the earlier post was correct : They could have obtained it from linux
After graduating I insisted on Sun hardware in the newco I started.
After this, I can assure you when our Enterprise Server dies, it will be replaced with an army of FreeBSD boxes (which we already run for other servers)
Good job sun -- you've soiled yourselves with the stink of the new pariah
The enemy of your enemy in this case was not your friend
I hope IBM buys your sorry assets out, because we're done with you
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
...that HAS to be the nerdiest post I've ever read on Slashdot!
:)
And that's quite an accomplishment, sir
ClutterMe.com - easiest site creation on the Net. Just click and type.
Which one did you just add?
This is nothing new. It only boils down to: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Microsoft and Sun don't like each other, but they have a common enemy: Linux. Thus it makes sense for them both to provide funds to SCO and help contribute to all the anti-Linux FUD. Once Linux is sufficently taken care of, Microsoft and Sun can go back to hating each other, or that's their plan anyway.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
right up until the goat part.
In other news senior VP bails from SCO, demonstrating a likely opinion of advanced technologists there about the merits of the case and the future of the company.
This post was not intended to be funny, but only off topic, since I have been repeatedly unsuccessful with story submissions that actually contain significant new interesting information about the case.
That Sun was trumpetting their status as a SCO licensee of Unix in disregard for any solidarity with Unix or Linux vendors or users was obvious, and this "revelation" was not a suprise in the least. It just means that Sun gave them a small amount of money a bit more recently.
Profiting? No, what they're actually doing is telling customers (current and future) that while SCO is wielding that axe trying to find someone to hit and profit from, Sun has already got all the licenses in place (since 1994) and people with Sun products don't have to worry.
Remember, SCO is running around telling people that even buying and running Linux will get you sued. Sun's just trying to say "whoa...none of our customers are going to get sued for things they've been running for quite some time now.
Scene: Fancy Restaurant
Enter a certain Well Known Penguin.
Waiter: Morning, welcome to the Lawsuit and Buyout Cafe, sit right here and may I take your order?
CWKP: (scanning menu) Morning! Well, what have you got?
Waiter: Well there's IBM; IBM and Redhat; IBM and SCO; IBM, Redhat and SCO; SCO, IBM, Redhat and Sun; SCO, IBM, Sun and Redhat; SCO, SCO, Redhat and SCO; SCO, SCO, SCO, and SCO;
Background voices: SCO! SCO! SCO! SCO! Lovely SCO!
Waiter: Or you can have any distro of Linux you want with a nice side of SCO.
CWKP: Do you have anything without SCO?
Waiter: Well there's SCO, Ibm, Redhat and Sun, that's not too tied up in SCO.
CWKP: You dont' understand, I don't want ANY SCO!
etc
etc
etc
etc
ad nausuem.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
The Ransom Love Linuxworld speech where Caldera explicitly states that it is donating code to Linux so that it can scale for high-end business uses and that Caldera was committed with IBM to making Linux scale to 64-bit as part of Project Monterey and IA-64 Linux is evidence where I come from. It's evidence that SCO has filed legal documents that it knows explicitly are false.
AIX itself wasn't bad, but the bank had a bad case of management consultants who told them that Sun was in fashion. Now it seems that Linux is in.
See my journal, I write things there
Agreed. As a Java developer and Solaris admirer, this is terrible news. (I was another of the people who submitted this link as a story, by the way, so I've been feeling sick about this since early this morning.)
While Sun's SCO technology acquisitions, and even stock buying, I could excuse, the apparent letters to AIX customers that others here have mentioned is a disgusting attempt to prey on IT department uncertainty and management fears. Sure, that kind of tactic is par for the course in capitalism, but still, I remember the days when Sun could succeed on technical merits alone.
I'm sorry to realise that the days of Sun's excellence may be waning. I certainly will be discarding my proposal for buying Sun blade servers now and will probably go with Penguin instead.
Remember that the "you" in this case was Ransom Love, who led the pre-SCO Caldera. Nobody who's at SCO now seems to have any conception of the history Caldera had with Linux. It's not clear they have much conception of the history the original SCO had with Unix, for that matter.
To the person who answered this with "And you believed this?" I'd probably say, "Sure, I believe Love meant what he said." Unfortunately, while corporations may be legal persons, they very often are legal persons with no long-term memory. (As someone pointed out, Darl McBride has claimed that SCO owns C++; while I have to give the man points for ambition, I don't think he has the faintest clue about Unix and Linux history.)
Before you read too much into this, you should read the article. Sun needed to purchase new licensing rights to some x86 drivers in order to run Solaris for Intel on their new Xeon servers. That's right, Sun now sells Xeon servers. These kind of licensing agreements happen all the time between companies that need hardware compatibility with the latest and greatest devices.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Consider that Sun bought a 300K$ license in Feb, a month or more before SCO publicly went after IBM. Sun may be entirely innocent of anti-Linux actions. Or even intent.
300K$ is chump change in corporate circles. That's less than the cost of 2 programmers for a year.
If they got options that are now worth 2 million in the process, I'd say they are good businessfolk.
when doing a careful examination of the SCO Group's SEC filings, at the end of March, these people purchased at $2.07 per share:
HUNSAKER (VP SALES) purchased 100,000
MCBRIDE (CEO) purchased 200,000
OLSON (VP) purchased 50,000
BENCH (CFO) purchased 100,000
BROUGHTON (VP INT'L SALES) purchased 50,000
now, between June and July, here's more activity:
HUNSAKER sold 10,000 shares at around $11 per share,
BENCH sold 14,000 shares at around $11 per share,
OLSON sold 6000 shares at around $9 per share,
BROUGHTON sold 15,000 shares at around $11 per share.
now, things are a bit more clear, are they not? this stock is going for a plummet, and most of the officers of SCO Group knew that it was going to be a quick, PR ride to the top and back down again.
they loaded up, and let it go.
now, they were able to do this at the expense of running Linux thru the gutter a bit.
here is where this is going: i don't know much about investing, and even less about 'shorting' a stock. could someone here on Slashdot with experience perhaps give me (us?) a clue on going about this? i firmly believe that this stock is on it's way down, and it would be nice to profit a bit from all this built up anger i've had regarding this fiasco.
I used to work for Sun. Loved the company, loved what they stood for, felt like I should have been paying them for the privilege of coming to work every day. Truly my dream job. I'm a major Linux bigot, but that didn't stop me from loving Solaris and loving Sun.
5 years later, the bloom pretty much faded from the rose. Sun made a lot of stupid decisions and strictly in my *opinion* started behaving unethically. They began to reap what they sowed, and the current sad state of affairs at SUNW is a reflection of their abandonment of core Sun ideals. I don't think it's wrong to use ethics as a measuring stick for your business decisions, but I seemed to be in the minority.
I think this SCO deal is a reflection of the 'new Sun' and an example of everything that is wrong with the company currently. I mourn the loss of the old Sun, and I mourn the impending death of a giant, for I truly believe that Sun is destined for failure if they continue along the current path.
I used to respect and admire Scott McNealy for his willingness to take a stand and fight for what he thought was right, but somehow along the way Sun leadership no longer does this... they instead hedge their bets, play both sides of the fence, and refuse to stick to their guns on anything when push comes to shove.
I was one of the many thousands of engineers who got laid off from Sun in the last few years. I did well while I was there, did everything that I thought was humanly possible to ensure Sun's success despite the odds, and I'm sorry to see them fall. I still truly believe that Sun has the potential to regain their dominance in both the market and mindshare, but unfortunately they got rid of all the people who had the intestinal fortitude to make a stand for what they believe in instead of what was politically expedient.
Sun hardware kicks ass, plain and simple. Solaris is a damned good OS, but no longer the far and away market leader that it used to be. Can it be again? Who knows... I believe that it could given the right attitude and resources but again, that's just a personal opinion. I think Sun could do extremely well partnered with the Linux community (like IBM is doing) instead of being an adversary to it.
Am I bitter? I'm not bitter about losing my job to economic forces, and I'm not angry towards Sun, nor do I wish them failure. I truly enjoyed working there and would work there again if I felt that they were willing to commit to what it takes to succeed. I'd work until my fingernails bled to help them achieve that, but I don't see them even acknowledging the issues and problems they face, let alone actively striving to correct them. I don't think that makes me bitter, only honest.
I only hope that Sun some day wakes up, yanks back on the control yoke and comes out of their tailspin before it's too late. Things like this SCO business aren't helping them at all and they are too shortsighted and stubborn to admit it.
-- Gary F. (who refuses to post as an AC)
>>Sun made this deal before SCO whent nuts
Timeline:
December: SCOX started claiming that their code was in Linux. Suggested they may start charging Linux unsers $99 per CPU.
January: SCOX insiders gave themselves a buttload of options for $0.001 each.
February: SUNW starts secretly supporting SCOX, and gets a buttload of warrents.
March: SCOX officially files a lawsuit against IBM.
May: MSFT starts supporting SCOX's efforts.
June: SCOX is now leagally able to make good on their threat to cancle IBM's UNIX license. SCO could go to court and ask for a temporty immediate injunction that would forbid IBM from selling AIX. SCOX does not do this. Instead SCOX claims that as far as they are concerned, all versions of AIX are illegal.
What kind of competition does Sun have? Consider IBM's p690 and HP's Superdome. Both are in a neck-to-neck race to be #1 on the internationally recognized TPC-C benchmark by the Transaction Processing Council. Both of their scores is about 750,000. Please read "IBM touts own chips over Itanium". By contrast, Sun's best score is about 250,000 (from the TPC website).
As for SPEC performance, the p690 and the Superdome again crush Sun's best machine.
The only thing left for Sun is to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). Sun is hinting that it will soon slit IBM's jugular vein by hinting that Sun may purchase SCO. After all, SCO claims control over IBM's UNIX patents. Sun is trying to create the fear that future IBM customers may be in expensive legal trouble if they run AIX or Linux because Sun-controlled SCO has terminated its UNIX licensing agreement with IBM.
Do you hear "it"? The bell is tolling. It tolls ominously for Sun.
For me, that would be the equivalent of dinner and a movie, not a new home in the Hollywood hills and a new Hummer.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
I think the february deal right before the case makes it MORE suspect. And so do the stock options. It's not common to buy these kinds of rights with stock option deals... that's a bet on SCO's future, made right before the coming case went PUBLIC. We would have to assume at least SCO knew at the time the case was imminent. It looks to me like Sun did too.
And no, I'm not a paranoid kid or linux fanman, I'm just a regular cynic.
-pyrrho
Here is another article that just came out regarding the SUNW/SCOX partnership. It offers more silly quotes from SCO's Blake Stowell whining that IBM "is continuing to ship AIX, and ignoring the fact that we've terminated their rights to it." Poor little SCO! Mean IBM is ignoring them!
Well that is debatable. Any software that is derived from GPL'd code must be put under the GPL license. The question is: If your code links to a piece of GPL'd code does that mean that the GPL'd code has become part of it and therefore your code is derived from the GPL'd code?
Drivers must link with the kernel so most feel that they must be GPL'd. There are companies that put out proprietary drivers NVIDIA etc. If you use these drivers they "taint" your kernel. Most people don't care.
I am of the opinion that exceptions need to be made for drivers. If the Linux community wants companies to support their kernels then we need to allow proprietary drivers to link with the kernel.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
somebody give me GOD status please http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=67707&cid=6204 785
Good point.
But let's assume for a minute that you're right on the second point. Let's say it was a misjudgement.
Why then would they exploit the situation in the NYTimes with full page ads explaining how they are legal and that AIX users should all switch, in turn adding to the FUD themselves.
I wouldn't consider them the "good guys" in this by any means.
As far as open office and Java support, they're still competing with Micros~1 no matter what the situation in the IX world looks like.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
That's nuts. Next SCO will claim ownership of the internet and sue Al Gore for inventing it.
My sig will be released in 2015 third quarter. Rating pending.