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Apple Tries to Patent Fast User Switching
Ashcrow writes "An article from The Register points out Apple's attempt to patent fast user switching. It seems that Steve Jobs admits that Microsoft beat them to the punch but believes Panther's implementation is superior."
Alt-F1, Alt-F2... I can switch between root and myself in about 1/8 of a secord or less. Its amazing really. I bit longer to switch between console and X.
--- its to bad about the monkey, I kinda liked them
um, isn't "su" fast user switching? Doesn't that have prior art?
In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
I mean, what is the use of switching users as fast as it can be done?
-Is the meaning of life vanity, or is vanity the meaning of life?
Okay, I'm really confused here. If there's a prior implementation, how can it be patented, especially when it's not like Apple can claim that they don't know about any competitors?
I really have liked where Apple has been going lately as far as the technical side of things goes, but if their management is going to become stupid, then they need a wakeup call.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Apple patents everything they can imaginably think of, right down to the skins on their OSes, and they never use a single one of these patents. (OK, they bitchslap people who make themes similar to aqua, but based on trademark law, not patents.)
If they give any indication they'd ever use this patent, ever, I'll bitch and moan about it with the rest of you. But they never will, and anyway, this idea is SO obvious I can't concievably imagine them ever winning a lawsuit based on this patent even if they tried.
In the meantime, i want to see how long it takes someone to make a serviceable Virtual Desktop implementation based on faking out the fast user switching implementation. Also, I find the Register's last paragraph a bit odd:
Will Apple use its new-found intellectual property rights? Maybe not, but like its use of QuickTime patents to win a $150 million investment from Microsoft demonstrated some years back, it may now have the opportunity to do so if it ever hears the words 'cancelled' and 'Microsoft Office' in the same sentence.
Patents? Hmm, I seem to remember that particular lawsuit being over several tens of thousands of lines of actual source code that slipped directly out of the Quicktime codebase and into the Microsoft Media Player codebase, through the intermediary of a third party contractor that both Apple and Microsoft hired at different points. I could have missed something, though.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
You can do that exact thing on UNIX by running multiple X-servers on different virtual consoles. ALT-F# to switch, and voila, you've got a different user with all their apps still running. Optionally you can lock the console before switching (using xscreensaver-command -lock, among other options) so you need the user's password to switch back.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
The thing about software patents is that they are Implementation-Specific. For example, the patent held by Adobe on tabbed palettes that can be dragged in and out. Adobe was able to sue Macromedia because Macromedia copied the implementation verbatim. Had Macromedia used a different technique to tear off palettes they would have been safe.
Likewise, by extending their Location Manager patent to include user-oriented settings Apple is implying that the switching technique and internal binding methods are unique to their implementation. Microsoft may have a semblance of fast user switching under XP, but there is no doubt that their implementation relies on different hooks and methods than the Apple implementation, which is a very thin layer that leverages the Darwin underpinnings of the OS. Most geeks here can easily guess the techniques Apple had to use in order to make this possible on top of Darwin. These techniques are certainly more graceful and less of an OS kludge than whatever Microsoft had to bolt onto Windows, and could easily be applied to other Unix-like OS's.
There will be a time in the not-too-distant future when portable devices will contain GPS by default, and automatically switch locations and users on the fly. Apple is doing the right thing here, formalizing their design via the patent system.
-- thinkyhead software and media
I used to work for a corporation called Bull, a French computer manufacturer and consulting outfit.
One of that company's core products at the time was smartcard-based . The project they were really proud of consisted of a massive rollout for a chain of hospitals in France, where doctors and other staff, just by inserting a chip card into a reader on a kiosk PC, could almost instantaneously call up their user profile, including rights to patients' dossiers and user-specific access to applications. The GINA mask would even display the doctor's photo while he/she typed in the PIN code.
This was based on Windows (forget which version), but the actual functionality was developed in-house. And I'm pretty sure we weren't the first to do anything of the sort.
Good luck, Mr. Jobs.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
Incidentally, it does, however, cover uses such as the Mac OS' Location Manager, which switches network-related settings according to the user's location.
Location Manager is one of the coolest features the old Mac OS had. I always wondered why Microsoft didn't shamelessly copy it, considering what a pain in the ass it was to change network settings in Windows (especially in the days when you had to reboot for them to take effect)-- it never occurred to me that Microsoft actually might respect someone else's (especially Apple's) patent instead of ignoring it and figuring their army of lawyers will protect them from any repercussions.
~Philly
They have something like this called xmove. You can Google for it. I'll admit I never got it working, but that was back when I used PS2 Linux with its really old X server. YMMV.
Sick of people knocking on Gentoo's greatness in completely unrelated
The patent application talks a lot about pen based systems. In fact, it says:
Therefore, it would be desirable to provide some method for quickly and easily changing an entire collection of parameters of relevance to the pen-based computer system when its owner adopts different personas.
I don't know of many pen based systems that Apple still markets...
- This is a continuation of a patent filed in 1995, and finally reviewed and granted in January 2003. Even if this was patenting Fast-User Switching, it was filed way before MS had it.
- This is NOT a patent on Fast-User switching (by itself). MacOS has, since, well probably no earlier than '95 but I'm thinking it was introduced around '98 or so had the "Location Manager". It works like this: LM compatable Control Panels saved their prefs in config files within the Preferences directory in the System Folder, and registered themselves with the Location Manager on initialization. Then, using a Location menu, you could simply snap all the settings to different configurations with one menu. Quite handy, I have one set on this machine for "normal" and one for "MIDI setup".
- We've all seen the Balmer video, but even he wouldn't be so stupid as to announce "our compeditors beat us to it" and then file a patent. Steve may be sadistic, but stupid he is not.
If I see one more post about "I have a virtual desktop and I can put a different xterm on each one" or "One word: su" , all I gotta say is this:Okay then:
someone@server someone]$ startx -- :1 & logout
Then just make sure you lock the sceen on your way out. Yeah, its not as secure as fast user switching because its up to the user to remember more steps but it can be done in a secure manner. I'm not saying switching X sessions is anywhere as nice as on the mac on windows, but it is a feature that X has provided for some time that most people aren't even aware of.
Besides, the people mentioning su do have a good point. If you want to run apps as a different user there is no reason to start a whole new desktop. Just su and type the command. I've been in GNU/Linux land so long I forgot some desktops don't provide a seamless multiuser environment. As jazzy as they may look, these user switching schemes found in more popular OSes still look like a kludge when compared with the basic functionality of X. (X forwarding, ssh tunneling etc.)
This may indeed be an attempt to patent "fast user switching" on Panther, but the patent talks about switching personalities on a pen based system. I, for one, would like to be able to tell my PDA to switch between my work persona and my persona persona, and to keep the calendars separate. The mention of that in the application is a new idea that I haven't seen done before, and it's much more intriguing than Apple supposedly trying to hoodwink Microsoft. Here's the relevant line in the application:
[0082] In the example presented in FIGS. 4a and 4b, the hand-held machine is shown to have two personas. In the case of FIG. 4a, the persona is Stephen Capps, professional engineer, while the persona illustrated in FIG. 4b is provided in for Stephen Capps, private citizen. As shown in FIG. 4a, some information associated with Stephen Capps, professional engineer, includes his company affiliation, title in the company, company address, and company phone number. In contrast, his private citizen persona is shown to include his home phone number, and may include such other information as a home address, etc.
I definitely haven't seen either Mac OS X switching or Windows switching do something _that_ useful.
It works out of the box on RedHat 9, probably 8 and 7.x as well though I don't have one of those handy. Another nice feature of RH is it's configured for ssh tunneling/X forwading out of the box. Just ssh to the target machine, type the command and !poof! window pops up on your desktop. (Well maybe ....p..o..o..f... depending on the speed of your connection). No need for VNC for remote GUI access and it's secure to boot.
I see the value of fast user switching.
I see the value of the Location Manager.
I just don't understand how they go together? Do you switch users when you go from wireless to ethernet? When you're surfing the web and your kid needs to print a book report out quick, are you using "wireless unplugged" and your kid, who is presumably right there in the same place, uses "ethernet plugged"? Does your kid have a built in 10bT jack or something?
The ability to change configuration settings on the fly is great for laptops, and fast user switching is great at work where we have to test multiple parts of a web-based site (each using its own cookies, so have to have more than one different browser session open). I think the confusion comes from trying to tie these seperate concepts together.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Circa 1985: I remember something called "the switcher" that would allow you to rapidly switch between desktops on the 512K macintosh. (The original 128K thin mac) didn't have it. It was a neat effect, with the desktop sliding right off the screen and the new one sliding into its place. There were no multiple user logons, but this was the first example I remember of multiple desktop switching.
My rights don't need management.
I have to wonder if Apple isn't trying to maneuver MS into a position of having to maintain their Office suite for Mac OS X. We just witnessed a five-year span where a standoff (or "agreement") between the two companies ensured continued Office for OS X development, thereby staving off a lawsuit by Apple against MS. I wonder if Apple reinstating their patent on fast-user switching isn't a way to position MS into another similar agreement. Who knows? Curious move on Apple's part.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Sun had this years ago, we have java stations which are like 4 yrs old now, which did fast switching, login to a session with your smart card in the station, pop it out and you session is saved while the terminal returns to a login screen.. pop that baby back in any other terminal on the network and your session returns pretty much instantanously!
lightyears ahead of this point and click...
First there was login, kindof quick if you're a good typer.
:0'?
Then there was su, slightly quicker if you're a good typer.
Then came screen, ^a1, ^a2... seems pretty quick to me!
Then came sudo, awfully fast, especially when combined with keybindings in screen.
Oh, you meant silly GUI switching? Fine. But why switch users when I can just 'sudo -u luser mongo-app --display
Maybe I really want to see a different desktop theme? Ok, how about binding those to virtual desktops....
All those patent lawyers must be bored, they've twisted the USPTO to the point where it's just a funny rubber stamp and mask outfit, so they need a new challenge!