Slashdot Mirror


UCB Researchers Critique DRM, Compulsory Licensing

An anonymous reader writes " In this paper, Berkeley researchers critique a host of cockamamie DRM schemes, and they also question the compulsory licensing approach recently being promoted by the EFF. They get into some of the practical details about compulsory licensing that no one else seems to be talking about like technical feasibility, incentives to cheat, monitoring for compliance, efficiency of collection and distribution of funds, privacy, fair use, feasibility of legal enforcement... Anyway, it's worth a read and is a useful contribution to the debate, whatever side you're on. "

158 comments

  1. UCB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As in Upright Citizens Brigade?

    Damn, I missed that show.

    1. Re:UCB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering Cal has been around since 1868, the university gets first dibs on the letters.

  2. YRO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    You have no rights online!

    1. Re:YRO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In SOVIET RUSSIA, online rights have YOU!

    2. Re:YRO? by Angry+White+Guy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Unfortunately, that is becoming more and more the case.

      It's time to stop implementing these schemes! Block Microsoft netblocks at the border routers, Same goes for Intuit, RealPlayer, and anyone else that compromises users rights for profit.

      --
      You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
  3. I got one DRM system that's ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...worked well for 30+ years.

    UNIX File Permissions.

  4. Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's what I thought at first. I was like "What are they researching?" At least Amy Poehler is on SNL, and she's fun to look at. I'm just happy a bunch of people from The State will soon be on Comedy Central in Reno 911.

  5. It should be obvious by now by banal+avenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All DRM is inherently unbeneficial. Systems such as Pallidum only collude the issue by pertorting to offer benefits to the end user. Want to protect your files? Run PGP. Want to prevent other people from reading them? Don't give them to people you don't trust. It's simple.

    As for the RIAA, I strongly disagree with their methods and their tactics. But, in the end, they are protecting the companies who fund them. And quests such as not buying CDs in order to protest the RIAA only result in more justification for the RIAA to encourage cracking down.

    In my opinion, the only legitimate option that the RIAA is pursuing is litigation. Litigation is where the Copywrite battle is fought, and it should have remained in the first place.

    1. Re:It should be obvious by now by Klimaxor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the way the RIAA is going now is nothing but a complete circle jerk. "we want more of our money, so lets spend money, attack these people who give out our music for free, thus putting us deeper in debt (legal costs), and then, we'll continue to sell our CD's at $15-$25USD, although our brand new techology will stop them from stealing, since the CD's won't work in half of the cd players on the market..ha ha ha ha"
      MY thoughts....no way they are going to stop people from getting music for free. Encode everything anyway you want, someone is going to be bored enough, and have the time enough, to simply run a patch cord from Audio Out from a CD player that works, to Audio In, on sound card...and sit and wait 74 minutes for the CD to be recorded. There is NO way to get around it. What they SHOULD do, is encourage people to BUY their shit. Drop the prices, what the fuck is the point of celling a 25cent piece of plastic for almost 100% more then what it's worth. Ya gotta give people more. Offers, coupons, buy 1 get one, discounts, free clothing...etc etc. People will buy if people get what the money is worth. Pay the damn bands more then 5 cents per CD sold. People are also willing to support these bands. They aren't willing to support some fucking company that takes 95% of the profits, and throws the bands pocket change.

      *coughs* okay, i feel better now i think

      --
      your sins into me, oh my beautiful one.
    2. Re:It should be obvious by now by steve_stern · · Score: 1

      All DRM is inherently unbeneficial. Systems such as Pallidum only collude the issue by pertorting to offer benefits to the end user. Want to protect your files? Run PGP.

      Yeah, if you want an extremely clunky solution that relies on the user specifically encrypting and decrypting files he wants to protect, but still be able to use once in a while. While you're at it, why don't you run a firewall by having every incoming or outgoing packet pop up on the screen with "yes" and "no" buttons?

      I prefer code solutions to human solutions for problems as large-scale, but with easily-defined rules. Code isn't bug free. It will never be bug free. BSD has their solution, by marking virtual pages as "executable" or "memory", and not letting the second run any code. DRM is another (and, in my opinion, more effective) way to implement this abstraction.

      Then again, maybe we should just have a dialog box pop up with each assembly instruction with "yes" and "no" buttons, if you think humans can (and should) do this job.

    3. Re:It should be obvious by now by randyest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More importantly, it just doesn't work. My favorite part of the paper:

      No proposed technical protection measures are strong enough to sustain a determined attack. Only in combination with models where the incentives to circumvent are limited, can technical solutions succeed.

      So, I read that to say that if you don't allow for reasonable legal alternatives (like, say, charging less than $20 for one decent song amidst some filler and/or providing some handy online distribution system), nothing you can do technically to prevent copying will work in the long run. Of course, that leaves legal recourse (as we've seen from the RIAA lately), but the fine article also addresses the (in)feasibility of that option.

      Of course, I'm guessing the *AA will read it more along the lines of: we've gotta use the opposite approach by providing an incentive to NOT circumvent: (1) try to convince everyone that file sharing is the moral equivalent of eating the baby you just molested, (2) utilize ridiculous and broken copy protection schemes that hassle the honest-end users, thereby creating a peer-pressure factor, and (3) emit a constant barrage of shotgun-style lawsuits to maintain a nice atmosphere of fear.

      I dunno why these nice smart folks bothered to make this fine paper. For some of us they are preaching to the choir, for others their words fall on deaf ears.

      --
      everything in moderation
    4. Re:It should be obvious by now by geekee · · Score: 0, Troll

      The only mistake the RIAA made was not using strong-encryption on cds in the 1st place. How do you think all those songs got onto napster, etc. in the 1st place. It's because there was no DRM and people have proven they can't be trusted. Sure DRM can be cracked, but if it prevents 90% of piracy, that less lost revenue than before.

      --
      Vote for Pedro
    5. Re:It should be obvious by now by Ozric · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "All DRM is inherently unbeneficial"

      Amen ... it adds another layer of bs on top of all the other bs. What is the benefit to the consumer?

      There are places that could use that level of protection I am sure. But lem them choose for themselves!

      DRM is nothing more vender lockin on a grand scale. Be it software or a distribution channel.

      All this talk of DRM and IP are giving me heart burn. I remember when people in the "computer biz" and "software game" wanted to be better then then the common 1900's businessman. Well in that we have failed... we have take unethical to a new level. God help us all.

    6. Re:It should be obvious by now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except it only takes ONE copy to spread to a limitless number of others. There is no digital scarcity no matter what kind of DRM is invented.

    7. Re:It should be obvious by now by hazem · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno why these nice smart folks bothered to make this fine paper.

      3 words: publish or perish

      It's how you get a job in academia and it's how you keep it. But, it IS interesting... often the results of research seem really obvious - but someone had to take the time to put it in such a way.

    8. Re:It should be obvious by now by blowdart · · Score: 4, Interesting
      All DRM is inherently unbeneficial

      Bullshit. Perhaps you mean to say DRM is unbeneficial in its current form to consumers? Even then bullshit.

      DRM has benefits right now, ask Apple, they seem to be making a few million dollar benefits out of a system which includes a form of DRM.

      Want to stop users running as root or deleting your files on a shared system? That's a form of DRM, which has benefits?

      Want to stop recruitment agencies chopping your CV into pieces, editing it around and submitting it for jobs for which you are unsuited and wasting your time? Produce your CV as a PDF which stops that. There's a benefit for you.

      Want to produce a game for the PS/2, the XBox or any other console? Want to make sure that people buy it and you actually make some money from your effort? DRM again, woah, profit as a benefit? How unlike slashdot.

      Just because something annoys you does not make it unbenefical to everyone, nor does making blanket statements of your political beliefs as fact provide any benefit to an arguement.

    9. Re:It should be obvious by now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Want to protect your files? Run PGP. Want to prevent other people from reading them? Don't give them to people you don't trust. It's simple.

      Want to go back to the days when all information was considered proprietary and protected by guilds? "It's that simple".

      If you make it unprofitable to share new ideas, don't imagine that there aren't other ways to reward creativity. New ideas and implementations have value. Value means "worth money". If you aim to destroy the current system, you'd best be thinking what will reasonably replace it.

    10. Re:It should be obvious by now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint: it's not going to be, "I get everything everyone else ever invented, free!"

    11. Re:It should be obvious by now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if you do decide to get litigious against the [RI|MP]AA, it helps to be able to spell words like "purporting" and "copyright"

    12. Re:It should be obvious by now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      only collude the issue by pertorting to offer benefits
      perchance you mean only confuse the issue by purporting to offer benefits ?
    13. Re:It should be obvious by now by avdp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ever heard of PGPDisk (part of the PGP suite)?

      Encrypts a file which then mounts as a drive letter when decrypted. Pretty handy! All my sensitive files goes in there (mounts as drive s:\ ) and it stays mounted until I unmounted.

    14. Re:It should be obvious by now by swv3752 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All DRM is unbeneficial to the consumer. It limits our rights as citizens. Sure, it protects content rights holders, but they already have number of protections that we have ceded to them.

      DRM should have the name- Digital Restrictions Management. I do not want further restriction on my stuff. The Doomsday project in England would be completely dead instead of resurected if DRM had been in place then.

      We let DRM happen and we are going to forget the past.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    15. Re:It should be obvious by now by Baki · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But, in the end, they are protecting the companies who fund them. And quests such as not buying CDs in order to protest the RIAA only result in more justification for the RIAA to encourage cracking down.

      If people don't buy CD's long enough, the companies funding the RIAA shall go bankrupt and noone is left to fund the RIAA. Then the RIAA shall no longer have money to buy politicians and laws.

    16. Re:It should be obvious by now by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. Maybe you're just a troll, maybe you really don't understand... just in case: DRM doesn't prevent 90% of piracy because it only takes one smart person to figure out how to crack it. Once that's done they can write a computer program that allows any idiot to replicate the feat. Also, strong encryption takes computing horsepower. Do you know what that would mean for devices like CD players? Yeah, they'd all be sporting a ton of processing power above and beyond their mission critical audio format decoders and digital to analog convertors. Back in 1986 or whenever they first started unleashing these devices that would've all seemed pretty silly since the only feasible way to copy CDs was to record them onto cassette tape.

      --
      I do not have a signature
    17. Re:It should be obvious by now by bns_robson · · Score: 1

      If people don't buy CD's long enough, the companies funding the RIAA shall go bankrupt and noone is left to fund the RIAA. Then the RIAA shall no longer have money to buy politicians and laws.

      I don't think this is correct. Some of the companies funding the RIAA make money from other sources so won't go bankrupt if CD sales go down.

    18. Re:It should be obvious by now by farnz · · Score: 1
      Um. Not all DRM is unbeneficial to the consumer. My mail server has digital rights management set up; it prevents anyone not on my internal network from sending e-mail to the world. This is a good thing for me, since it means that my machine is not abused for other people's e-mail, and a good thing for you, since it prevents my machine being used for spam.

      Compulsory DRM may or may not be a bad thing, and I would agree that many of the schemes being thrown around are not good, but not all DRM is bad.

    19. Re:It should be obvious by now by no_opinion · · Score: 1

      Really? Will you think DRM is unbeneficial when it's used by your doctor to protect your medical records from unauthorized viewing and distribution? I think you are making the classic mistake of confusing technology and policy. This is the same mistake the music companies are making w.r.t. P2P.

    20. Re:It should be obvious by now by encebollado · · Score: 1

      The american market is not just made up of consumers, you need producers too. Producers attract consumers by offering something of value to them, in this case entertainment. Consumers in turn need to offer something of value to the producers. We offer them assurances that they will be paid for the use of their work (if anyone uses it). This is good old economics.
      If DRM can be implemented that will give added benefits to the producer without taking much away from the consumer, so that a net benefit has been added to the market, then we'll all win.

  6. I haven't read the article by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because I refuse to use proprietry file formats. So, I shall refrain from passing uninformed comment on this senseless drivel. Please don't let that stop anyone else though.

    1. Re:I haven't read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ahem. the pdf format has been made publicly available by adobe, and open source viewers are available. like xpdf.

      moderators, troll this luser.

    2. Re:I haven't read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Don't try and bring your so-called "facts" into this.

    3. Re:I haven't read the article by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 1

      made publicly available by adobe

      So which meaning of proprietary are you using?

    4. Re:I haven't read the article by Dr.+Photo · · Score: 4, Informative

      This pdf was apparently generated by pdftex,
      which is GPL'd.

      So you probably won't go to GNU/Hell for reading it, in your friendly local xpdf or konqueror or whatnot.

    5. Re:I haven't read the article by tealover · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I don't know about you, but I like Microsoft. I used to be a Microsoft hater but then I realized I was just following the crowd. I've used Linux for years and while I think Linux is a nice niche, it will never replace Microsoft. Linux is plagued by the same problems as Unix --- too fractious.

      Microsoft establishes standards, and believe it or not...standards are good. If someone comes along and establishes better standards, then so be it. I don't think it will be Linux, however.

      --
      -- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
    6. Re:I haven't read the article by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 2, Funny

      Microsoft establishes standards
      And what high standards they are too.

    7. Re:I haven't read the article by AdEbh · · Score: 2, Funny

      That has to be one of the worst cases of trolling I've ever seen. The trick is to be subtle, to make it not look like your trolling.

      Bringing MS into a discussion that has nothing to do with MS is a bit of a give away.

      Try again and this time remember subtle

      -Alex

    8. Re:I haven't read the article by AstroDrabb · · Score: 1

      Damn, you are one clueless dork! MS does not make standards. They only break them. All the major protocols, document formats, etc that MS makes, they keep locked up so that only MS can interoperate with them. It is not too hard to be standards compliant with yourself.

      --
      If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
      it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
    9. Re:I haven't read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about you, but I like Linux. I used to be a Linux hater but then I realized I was just following the crowd. I've used Windows for years and while I think Windows is a nice niche, it will never replace Linux. Microsoft is plagued by the same problems as Apple --- too fractious.

      Linux establishes standards, and believe it or not...standards are good. If someone comes along and establishes better standards, then so be it. I don't think it will be Microsoft, however.

    10. Re:I haven't read the article by CharterTerminal · · Score: 1

      That has to be one of the worst cases of trolling I've ever seen.

      Oh, I don't know about the worst, really. I've seen some pretty clumsy trolling in my day, although I agree that this one is pretty inept.

      I have to admit, though, that I'm almost hypnotized by his use of the word "fractious." I assume the poor word just got caught in the crossfire between a freak-ass typo and his spellchecking program, but it's hard to say. Nevertheless, "fractious" is a delightful word that simply doesn't get used as often as it deserves.

      As a troll, both he and his "Word A Day" calendar deserve to die horribly, of course. But I have to give him credit for vocabulary, at least.

    11. Re:I haven't read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Standards like POSIX and Single Unix Specification? Oh, oops.

      Or maybe you mean Adobe PDF... Funny. Didn't Adobe do a lot of stuff for Unix?

  7. UCB by CrazyJoel · · Score: 0

    The Upright Citizens Brigade?

    That makes sense.

    I'll laugh at you before you laugh at me because your pennies have been in my ass!

    --

    Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.
    1. Re:UCB by bersl2 · · Score: 1

      Does that mean that if I watch pr0n through a hole in a sheet, it's OK?

    2. Re:UCB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, I wouldn't put my eye that close to the crusty sheet, know what I'm saying?

  8. Like by Jason_says · · Score: 1
    "no one else seems to be talking about like technical feasibility"

    like totally man

  9. You mean I actually need to read? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dude, this thing is like 5 and a half pages before the bibliography, and all of that is actually well-considered and thought out, which means it takes a long time to read. As an average slashdotter, being asked to read the article before trying to express my ill-thought-out-opinions seems unreasonable. That involves actual thinking and effort. Couldn't you give us, like, a sound bite in the story blurb next time that we could misinterpret and fight about? Has Microsoft said anything stupid on this subject lately?

    1. Re:You mean I actually need to read? by Klimaxor · · Score: 1

      i read a couple pages of it, but eh...i dunno..It's not as though i'm bad at reading..i just don't like reading something with so many lengthy words. It's bloated. It's good, yes, wish i could write that well, but damn bloated.

      That and i'm reading it at work, and I'm tired of looking at PDF's, since my job revolves around opening them, looking at them, exporting them.

      --
      your sins into me, oh my beautiful one.
    2. Re:You mean I actually need to read? by MadJo · · Score: 1

      well they _are_ talking about DRM...
      Which is, if I'm not mistaken, being promoted by Microsoft, which in turn is the master in bloating.
      So some bloating is bound to happen.

  10. betrayal is betrayal by Timesprout · · Score: 1

    doesnt matter your belief

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:betrayal is betrayal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF? Are you talking to yourself or something?

  11. Yes, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    but is that UCB full speed or high speed?

  12. Text of the PDF paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative


    As someone who hates that disgusting Adobe PDF format (why people can't publish in HTML after all this is the web right ?) here is the text of the pdf..

    A Framework for Evaluating Digital Rights Management Proposals
    Rachna Dhamija
    UC Berkeley, SIMS
    rachna@ sims. berkeley. edu

    Fredrik Wallenberg
    UC Berkeley, SIMS
    fredrik@ sims. berkeley. edu

    Abstract
    In this paper, we analyze the strengths and weaknesses
    of the various solutions to compensate intellectual property
    rights holders. Specifically we look at digital rights manage-ment
    (DRM) based systems, extensions to DRM to support
    fair uses, monitor-and-charge schemes, compulsory licens-ing
    schemes and alternative business models.
    Our main contribution is to provide a framework from
    which current and future proposals may be evaluated. In
    order to realistically evaluate any compensation scheme, we
    suggest that the following questions are important to ask:

    Is the proposal technically feasible? What are the incentives to circumvent legal and techni-cal protections for all parties in the transaction?

    What is the burden of monitoring for compliance in the system, and on which parties does this burden fall?
    What is the efficiency of the collection and distribution of funds from consumers to rights holders?
    What are the impacts on user privacy and fair use? What is the feasibility of legal enforcement, both do-mestically and internationally?

    1. Introduction
    Over the last few years the debate over protection, or lack
    thereof, of copyrighted works has flourished. Proposals on
    how to reimburse the creators of these works range from
    strict proprietary encryption locks to new business mod-els
    that rely on revenue streams from ancillary products.
    Each new proposal points out the shortcomings of previ-ous
    schemes and highlights the benefits of its own solution.
    However, no consistent framework exists for analyzing the
    different solutions.
    In this paper, we analyze the strengths and weaknesses of
    the various solutions. Specifically, we look at DRM based
    systems, extensions to DRM to support fair uses, monitor-and-
    charge schemes, compulsory licensing schemes and al-ternative
    business models. From this comparison, we extract
    important dimensions such as technical feasibility, incen-tives
    to cheat, burden of monitoring, privacy, and the feasi-

    bility of legal enforcement. Our main contribution is to pro-vide
    a framework from which current and future proposal
    may be evaluated.

    Digital Information as a "Public Good" Economists
    sometimes refer to certain goods as public. This does not
    imply that they are in the public domain as defined by intel-lectual
    property law. Rather, a public good is a product or
    service that has two properties. First, it is non-rival, which
    simply means that consumption by one person doesn't limit
    consumption of the next. Second, it is non-excludable, im-plying
    that once the product exists, the benefit cannot be
    limited to those that have paid for it.
    Ideas and information captured in physical media tradi-tionally
    fall into some middle ground. While the informa-tion
    itself certainly has the characteristics of a public good,
    the physical media that it is tied to is rival and exclud-able.
    This gives rise to business models involving the sale
    of physical artifacts whose only value is the embedded in-formation
    such as books, CDs and DVDs. These business
    models have taken a serious blow with the introduction of
    information in digital form combined with communications
    media such as the Internet. The question at hand is whether
    or not it is possible to devise a scheme under which money
    can be transferred from those consuming information goods
    to the providers of the same.
    We use the characteristics of a public good to distinguish
    between the following classes of proposals to compensate
    intellectual property rights holders:

    1. Re:Text of the PDF paper by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 1

      Guess they should have used DRM to protect their article from being cut and pasted into slashdot.

      --
      Beep beep.
    2. Re:Text of the PDF paper by fwallenberg · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thanks for the work of creating a text version of the document for those that don't like PDFs. We've made an HTML version available (see separate post). As to why PDF (and why two columns)? Conference submission requirements... it could have been worse, they seemed to prefer Word documents ;-)

  13. Re:SHUT YOUR FUCKING FACE UNCLEFUCKER! by Jason_says · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    that wasnt very nice

    but im going to be the better man and not respond to that.

    mumble...mumble stupid bitch..mumble

  14. Well, So What? by iamatlas · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Yes, current and as yet forseable DRM systems are of laughable or at best questionable quality and even legality (consumers do have have rights to purchased material)But....

    The bathwater should be carefully checked to make sure no baby is contained therein before throwing it out. DRM often being overly restrictive, easily bypassed, or otherwise inneficient does not mean that there should not be some _Rasonable_ system in place that prevents misuse, and only mis-use. In the slashdot crowd-- and I find myself, as part of it, falling victim to this at times-- DRM is often spoken of in a context of its being inherently bad and undesireable. Truthfully, and effective and fair DRM system just might be what is truly needed.

    Interesting comments wanted; trolls need not reply

    1. Re:Well, So What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Interesting comments wanted; trolls need not reply
      You're only saying that becuase you're a GAY NIGGER!!!
    2. Re:Well, So What? by RickHunter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, but to be fair, it has to respect the entire letter of the law. Not just "you can't copy/modify this, its mine", but everything. From (mostly theoretical, these days) copyright expiry to provisions made for fair use exceptions and changing legislation.

      DRM as often spoken of is useless at best and harmful at worst. There might be some gems hidden there, but I doubt that allowing Holywood and Microsoft to follow through with their Evil Scheme of the Month is going to bring them to the surface.

    3. Re:Well, So What? by drwav · · Score: 4, Interesting

      DRM often being overly restrictive, easily bypassed, or otherwise inneficient does not mean that there should not be some _Rasonable_ system in place that prevents misuse, and only mis-use.

      I would like to point you to this article and follow up by submitting that what you ask is either not possible or so impractical that we should not waste our energies on such a project.

      To summarize the article, it basically states that because of the complexities of society, only humans should be allowed to decide the implication of the law in a case by case basis. Such decisions are not for the cold logic of a computer unless a sophisticated AI is created for DRM, which is the impractical part I was referring to earlier.

      The key word in the article is "leeway", something that machines are completely incapable of.

      Look at it this way, do you really want your computer telling you what you can and can't do? Now you can say that this is important for security and to prevent damage to the machine (e.g. Don't allow other users to access the machine, don't allow users to delete system files), but those are simply bad analogies and I encourage you to avoid them since they will only hinder this discussion.

    4. Re:Well, So What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even worse than that - He's a GAY NIGGER FROM OUTER SPACE

    5. Re:Well, So What? by Anonymous+MadCoe · · Score: 1

      I must agree with this.
      Consumers have rights, yes, but copyright owners do too. With a functional DRM in place both interrests can be served. It would even allow smalltime publishers to get bigger at the expense of the "evil giant companies", because publishing costs could go down dramatically.

      I think that DRM is something we'll going to have to live with from some point on, no use fighting it. It will serve a purpose.

      (funny to hear people (on slashdot and in other places) slamming the music industry's "obsolete business model" but also reject DRM, which is needed for a working new business model)

    6. Re:Well, So What? by lionelhutz_esq · · Score: 2, Insightful
      DRMS get quite a bad reputation inhere which is certainly understandable. of course, noone likes to pay for things, but fact is that this is how our society works.

      but i think it would be wrong to condemn DRMS; sure, DRMS cause legal problems mainly relating to fair usage, but those problems should put in relation to the advantages DRM bring about. it is clear that private end users primarily see DRMS as a tool which makes them eventually pay more, but from a (more important?!) business perspective, DRMS and the separation of content from the (valuable) right offers whole new business models. for instance, rights to movies can be sold to investors even before the movie is made. ex-ante fund raising is just one of the vast possibilities that DRMS can be used for.

      i think once we can solve the inherent tension between fair useage and DRMS (and we will), the latter will actually be a good thing.

      P.S. please keep cursing to an acceptable level.

    7. Re:Well, So What? by iamatlas · · Score: 1
      what you ask is either not possible or so impractical that we should not waste our energies on such a project.


      You could be right- though I'd say "Not now does not mean not ever." As a programmer and (side business) artist, should I make something independant of salaried work, I would like the 800 lb. gorilla that redistributes to have some protection in place. As for a reasonable method of doing so, This is slashdot- why does what I what I want have to be possible?

      Look at it this way, do you really want your computer telling you what you can and can't do?

      It sure would have come in handy during my whole "I can fly... wait... I can't.... owwww" phase.

    8. Re:Well, So What? by Lolox · · Score: 1
      Truthfully, and effective and fair DRM system just might be what is truly needed.

      You now have the moral duty to suggest how such a system would behave.
      The problems are pointed in the article and in previous posts:
      • no computer system, short of AI, will ever get the "fair" part right (exceptions, changing legislation, potential for loophole abuse...)
      • effective DRM is a moving target, as has been repeatedly proven. Probably the only way to achieve it is by tuning the incentives in such a way that, at least for a majority of users, it is not worth the effort of breaking.
      I am not against the concept of DRM itself, but I can't think of a way of implementing it that matches your description.
    9. Re:Well, So What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Following on from APster comes KaGaA.The Killer Application for Governmental Accountabilty through Anarchism.This is a light Remailer Mint with Tradelink style interface.It is distributed,secure,scalable and voluntary.A rough distro is out on the wildnets and with a new GUI KaGaA has been rated the most promising vapourware ever by copkillers.com and stiffs magazine.Along with metalstorm, ramjet and orbital among others this open source assassination software is from the exciting new frontier,Australia.

      Who wants to participate to help form what will be the LAST revolution on earth,
      the one that'll take down ALL the governments.

      APster chief engineer and designer James Dalton Bell.

  15. ok so thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    it's a good idea to point out the flaws early, so it can be fixed rather than if they do a massive deployment of shitty tech.

    Companies are serious about DRM. It's not going away.

    1. Re:ok so thanks by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, it's better to keep your mouth shut about any flaws, so that they do a massive deployment of shitty tech, and then it'll be too late to go back.

      Much like the easily-broken CSS scheme on DVDs; the DVD-CCA can't just say, "okay everyone, we need to change the format because CSS has been cracked. Please toss out all your DVD players and discs, and replace them with our new DVD+ standard. Yes, it'll be expensive for you, but that's too bad."

      If you couldn't buy a car without a padlock on the hood, "for your protection", I'd rather my car had a single-digit padlock made of plastic than a titanium-alloy 10-digit model.

  16. As if.. by wfberg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    they also question the compulsory licensing approach recently being promoted by the EFF. They get into some of the practical details about compulsory licensing that no one else seems to be talking about like technical feasibility, incentives to cheat, monitoring for compliance, efficiency of collection and distribution of funds, privacy, fair use, feasibility of legal enforcement...

    As if these problems magically do not exist with voluntary licensing. I'm quite sure the EFF never claimed a compulsory licensing scheme would be perfect. It's a least bad kind of thing.
    --
    SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    1. Re:As if.. by geekee · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "I'm quite sure the EFF never claimed a compulsory licensing scheme would be perfect. It's a least bad kind of thing."

      Compulsory licensing is socialism. I'll take DRM over it any day of the week. I'd rather not be able to look at certain memory locations in my computer for data that Im not supposed to have free access to anyway (except for fair use purposes, which can be accomodated) than not be able to write a song and sell it at a price of my choosing.

      --
      Vote for Pedro
    2. Re:As if.. by TephX · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Compulsory licensing is socialism.

      Intellectual property is fascism.

      Now, I'm sure we both realize that the previous statement was roughly meaningless and designed only to incite emotion. The point is that yours is the same. Copyright is a legal construct in the first place. It does not exist independent of the government's creating it.

      But moreover, I don't see how it is socialism in any case. Socialism implies that the means of production are owned by the government. Umm, in this case I guess that would mean that the content producers were owned by the government? Or their equipment, perhaps? Nope, none of this is making any sense.

      I'll take DRM over it any day of the week. I'd rather not be able to look at certain memory locations in my computer for data that Im not supposed to have free access to anyway (except for fair use purposes, which can be accomodated) than not be able to write a song and sell it at a price of my choosing.

      Well, you've made it quite clear what your opinion is, but you haven't really given any reason for anyone else to accept it. My point of view is that compulsory licensing has at least this benefit: it stops the "arms race" between file sharers / traders / copyright infringers (however you want to look at it) and the RIAA / MPAA. While I think the technological aspect of this "arms race" may actually produce technologies which are interesting and useful in their own respects, the legal "arms race" is much more troubling, as very questionable law is being enacted at the request of the side that evidently donates more money to political campaigns.

      Compulsory licensing does mean that you can't "write a song and sell it at a price of [your] choosing", but the way I look at it, you didn't have a right to do that anyway. You currently have the ability, yes, but that ability is only justified (in the USA, by the Constitution) to be granted to you to "promote the progress of science and useful arts".

      And yes, I realize you were probably just trying to get a rise out of me and the many Slashdotters who think as I do, but the point is that there are real, legitimate issues here. Most people accept copyright law because it's what they're used to, but the fact is that when you look carefully, the foundations for it--especially in its present form--are pretty shaky.

      One interesting point raised by the linked-to article, which you did not address, is that in a compulsory-licensing system, the producers have an incentive to try to fake the system. That honestly hadn't occurred to me. I think this can be solved, say by having rankings signed with a public-key system, and I think the solution would be simpler and less Draconian in implementation than trying to get DRM on everything, but it is worth thinking about.

      --
      I metamoderate all Redundant and Offtopic moderations as Unfair.
    3. Re:As if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright is Government interference in the free market. Compulsory licensing limits the extent of that interference.

      To call compulsory licensing "socialism" betrays a lack of understanding of copyright.

    4. Re:As if.. by evbergen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think there's an alternative to DRM, compulsory licensing or the tip jar, neither of which is particularly attractive.

      I think it's possible to keep a free market. Not for released information-only products, but for non-released products. A scheme where popular artists earn more, where expensive productions remain possible, but without having to put any restrictions on use or redistribution of the material once it's published.

      How, you say?

      The starting point is that you can only demand a certain sum of money before you publish.

      But that's not necessarily problematic. In order to make a living of your creative work, you could run an auction on the web. A band with a good reputation would say, "we ask $750,000 for our next album. The ending term for this is in 3 months. If we haven't received the total sum of money by then, we'll either decide to go ahead anyway, or pay everyone back what he payed, minus 10 % to offer auction expenses and living costs. Bank such-and-such is the trusted party for this transaction."

      Of course, you need some technical and financial infrastructure to implement this, but running that would be a lovely new job for the poor record company execs. I'm definitely sure the artists will be more than happy to pay for the work of handling the auctions in a good and efficient manner, and for making sure there is an excellent search mechanism that allows people to find the artists they're looking for.

      A lovely thing about it is that the investment doesn't come anymore from financial institutions that are only seeking a high return on investment, which encourages the riskless, prefab artists and mass marketing you see and here every day; here you have people investing who have an actual interest in the end product.

      It surprises me that such a scheme hasn't been considered in the paper, which is otherwise quite comprehensive. Is there any reason why it would promote arts and sciences any less than the current copyrights?

      I've been toying with this idea for a while, but so far the only drawback I've been able to find is that as an artist, you can never make more money than you've bargained for, except with your next production, where you can cash in on your improved reputation. In other words, surprise hits will no longer make unexpected amounts of money, because the multiplier effect is gone.

      That will no doubt discourage some artists, but I think it's likely that as an artist you'll likely be completely satisfied if you're are able to make a decent living of your art. Personally, I would say that interesting artists don't create for the surprise effect that has a one in a million chance of happening. They create because they find that the best way to spend their lives, if only they could earn a reasonable living with it.

      There's just two requirements. Artists mustn't whine if they can't win the lottery anymore except by buying a lottery ticket, the people in the audience mustn't whine if they get the art they payed for, while others are getting it for free.

      But is that really too much to ask?

      --
      All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
    5. Re:As if.. by geekee · · Score: 1

      Socialism is a system whereby the rights of an individual are placed second to the rights of the collective. In this case the collective is the music listening public and the individual is the author. Yes, in anarchy, a person could steal your music, but they could steal your car as well. The US constitution protects you from both types of threats. Any system where the govt, controls pricing will be corrupt since pricing is completely artificial and now it's who you know in the govt that counts, not how good your music is. That's obvious. Your statement that "intellectual property is fascism" isn't meaningless. You just don't understand what you're saying. Fascism is a system whereby the state is more important than the individual, so your statement is irrational, but it does have a meaning.

      --
      Vote for Pedro
    6. Re:As if.. by geekee · · Score: 1

      " Copyright is Government interference in the free market. Compulsory licensing limits the extent of that interference."

      Copyright is a protection of property. Saying it interferes with free market is like saying laws against theft interfere with free market. Free market means a buyer and seller reach a mutual agreement on a price. The seller has no say on the price of his product if buyers choose instead to copy it for free.

      "To call compulsory licensing "socialism" betrays a lack of understanding of copyright."

      Compulsory licensing give the govt. exclusive power to charge money for music, and then decides how much and to whom this money goes to. Maybe it's not socialism by strict definition, but it certainly stinks of socialism. It's certainly not captialsm.

      --
      Vote for Pedro
    7. Re:As if.. by TephX · · Score: 1
      The starting point is that you can only demand a certain sum of money before you publish.

      I've thought about this type of system myself before. First off, you have to realize that under any even halfway sane copyright system, something like this can be implemented in userspace by means of a contract. (In a system with compulsory licensing, I'm asuming that you'd be allowed to waive your cut of the take; if not, you could always donate it to your favorite charity.) People could use this system right now; they don't because content producers know they can get a sweeter deal because of the abilities copyright currently affords them.

      The fundamental problem with this as the only available means of generating revenue for products of the mind is that it makes the money which can be raised for a work be funded by the reputation of those working on it, rather than the work's actual quality. This is exploitable to a minor degree by big-name creators who "cash in" on their names by writing junk that they know people will fund every once in a while. The more troubling side is that anyone who doesn't have a reputation yet would essentially have to give away his first work for free - no one in their right mind is likely to give money to a project with no expectations of how it will turn out. This also means that someone who only produces one work of note in his entire life will get basically nothing for it. (Well, maybe he'll make it back on his next (not-so-good) work... still, something seems wrong here. What if he dies before finishing another work?)

      I do think that a system such as you propose could be made workable, and it would certainly be better than the "hard-line copyright" we in theory currently have (albeit fairly loosely enforced). I'm not convinced that the overall result would be better than that with compulsory licensing, though. You seem to be coming from a pretty strict libertarian perspective, which I have a lot of sympathy for, but I think that products of the mind really challenge a lot of the assumptions that make libertarianism work so well for physical objects. I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong, and indeed, probably the best way to find out would be to try both systems and see which worked better... unfortunately, even compulsory licenses clash with the libertarian "get government out of anything it doesn't absolutely have to be involved in" mandate.

      --
      I metamoderate all Redundant and Offtopic moderations as Unfair.
    8. Re:As if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Copyright is a protection of property. Saying it interferes with free market is like saying laws against theft interfere with free market.
      Copyright is not a protection of property. You need to do some reading of Supreme Court rulings (look for the House Judiciary Committee quote in the Supreme Court majority ruling in the Betamax case), and of Thomas Jefferson.

      Jefferson nailed it on the head when he said that ideas (and by extension, expressions) cannot be property. The reason is precisely that you can copy ideas and expressions. My possessing a copy of the Constitution does not prevent you from possessing one -- the words (as opposed to the original copies) are not naturally scarce. But if you were living in a house, and a bunch of other people came along to possess it, you would not all be able to share it. In Economics 101 terms, property is a way to deal with natural scarcity.

      The seller has no say on the price of his product if buyers choose instead to copy it for free.
      I can bottle air, and demand that people pay me $100/hour in order to continue breathing. Then I can complain that when people continue to breathe the air outdoors, instead of paying me $100 per hour, that I have "no say" in the price of breathable air. Just because you want an excessively strong monopoly does not mean that the public is obliged to give you one.

      Maybe it's not socialism by strict definition, but it certainly stinks of socialism. It's certainly not captialsm.

      Perhaps your definition of capitalism has nothing to do with free markets or Adam Smith. For your charge of socialism most definitely does not apply here.

    9. Re:As if.. by no_opinion · · Score: 1

      As interesting of an idea as this is, I suspect it suffers from a few fatal flaws. First, people are not going to pay money in exchange for the possibility that they may get an album in a year. What happens if the band breaks up or the drummer spontaneously combusts? This means that the auction has to take place after the album has already been completed and the production money spent. Of course, one of the main reasons artists want a major record contract is so that they can get paid up-front to finance production.

      Second, no one other than die-hard fans will pay for an album without hearing something from it first. Of course, since the whole DRM argument assumes that lack of protection = piracy, if you let people hear your album without some kind of protection, it's all over the net and now your auction won't raise much since everyone can get your songs for free.

      But interesting idea nonetheless.

    10. Re:As if.. by evbergen · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's that bad. A bank or record company runs the same risk of bands breaking up and drummers going up in flames. As a financial institution, they want to run that risk because successes will compensate. The audience wants to run the risk because they like the music. And if it doesn't like the music enough, then apparently the price/quality ratio wasn't quite right.

      You may need to earn a better reputation by giving live concerts (making money at the same time) and providing more samples. That may be individual songs, or reduced bitrate songs. But I don't think there's ever a need to create your whole album up front. Your previous album is there, some work in progress is there, there are a few recordings of live concerts in circulation where you've played some new songs that will be on the album. That should be enough.

      As to fanhood: I'm far from a die-hard Spielberg fan. However, I'm interested enough that if he'd run an auction for his next film, I'd happily invest my 25 euros if the description sounds any good.

      If the money making doesn't seem to go well, I'm even going to try and convince my friends to pay too. Free advertising! I have an incentive to do that, because if the public doesn't raise enough money, I loose my 10 % and won't see that film.

      --
      All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
    11. Re:As if.. by evbergen · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your feedback.

      First off, you have to realize that under any even halfway sane copyright system, something like this can be implemented in userspace by means of a contract. [...] People could use this system right now; they don't because content producers know they can get a sweeter deal because of the abilities copyright currently affords them.

      I don't think the current deal is so sweet. Look at how many artist detest the recording industry, but have no choice but to hope they'll create a smash hit and make some money too. And if the arms race between the file sharing public and the media cartels + governments (it's a powerful combination, I know) is ultimately won by the former (and I'm about 50% sure it will), then artists will be forced to look at alternatives to copyright.

      This is exploitable to a minor degree by big-name creators who "cash in" on their names by writing junk that they know people will fund every once in a while.

      Perhaps, but people are merciless. If you pull that stunt too often, you may need to record your next album in your own basement.

      You seem to be coming from a pretty strict libertarian perspective, which I have a lot of sympathy for, but I think that products of the mind really challenge a lot of the assumptions that make libertarianism work so well for physical objects.

      Heh. I'm not at all a libertarian. I think that laws that apply to everyone equally, and established by a democratic process, should be stronger than any random individual or corporation can ever get. The free market is no substitute for democracy. In the former rules the right of the (economic) strongest, in the latter every man and woman, regardless of economic power, rules a tiny bit. Markets don't work in the public interest. They work in efficiency's interest, nothing else. So I do want free markets, but only up to a certain point. If Europe doesn't want GM food, we should be able to make a democratic decision to keep the stuff away, without leaving that up to the individual consumer. Because if it's cheaper, there will be a market, even if involuntarily, and the market for non-GM food will be harmed. If you're poor, you're forced to buy the cheapest stuff, even if you hate it. Governments should be able to set minimum standards. Free markets think countries without environmental regulations or unions offer the best price/quality ratio. Unless we want to get rid of those things ourselves as well, we should not have a free market to compete with such countries.

      But going back to your point, I do think that western governments today refuse to do anything that's in the public interest if it harms the big corporations and free trade. A lot of people think that way too. That's why I point out that in my proposed system, you still have a free market instead of a bureaucracy that divides tax money among artists. And in this particular case, I happen to favour the free market too.

      --
      All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
    12. Re:As if.. by TephX · · Score: 1
      Socialism is a system whereby the rights of an individual are placed second to the rights of the collective.

      It is one such type of system, yes, but not all systems meeting this description are socialism. From m-w.com:

      1. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
      2. a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
      3. a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

      None of these quite match what you're saying here (and I'm not just being annoying by going to the dictionary - "socialism" is a word I almost never use myself, so I had to look it up to be sure I got it right).

      Yes, in anarchy, a person could steal your music, but they could steal your car as well. The US constitution protects you from both types of threats.

      I know you're going to think this is akin to Stallman insisting that people call the complete operating system "GNU/Linux" (and for the record, even though I mostly agree with his point, I call it "Linux" - it's shorter and easier for most people to understand), but I really think it makes it easier to reason if you use a neutral term like "copy without authorization" rather than "steal" to refer to copyright infringement. (I'm not asking you to use a positive term, like "share with your friends", just a neutral one.) Also, the Constitution protects you from neither of those threats. It authorizes the legislature to enact laws which, when enforced, protect you from them - and in the case of music, authorizes such protection only under pretty strict limits (which unfortunately our government currently seems to be ignoring).

      Any system where the govt, controls pricing will be corrupt since pricing is completely artificial and now it's who you know in the govt that counts, not how good your music is. That's obvious.

      It's not obvious at all. Government obviously has less motivation to be efficient than private companies do, but that doesn't mean every single thing they do has to be inefficient and corrupt. It would be a technical challenge to come up with a system which accounts for the usage of different types of media and figures out payments, but I hardly think it's an insurmountable one. I have a few ideas on how to do it myself.

      Your statement that "intellectual property is fascism" isn't meaningless. You just don't understand what you're saying. Fascism is a system whereby the state is more important than the individual, so your statement is irrational, but it does have a meaning.

      It definitely is meaningless, because I didn't intend to mean anything by it. I wrote it as a cute example, nothing more. Meaning is in the mind of the one who means (if you doubt this, imagine that we had made the same statements and spoke English with the exception that the meanings of the words "socialism" and "copulation" were exchanged, as were those of "fascism" and "chastity").

      Meanwhile, regarding your original statement, maybe you did mean something by "Compulsory licensing is socialism", but boy, it sure came off as a content-free piece of flamebait. You need to explain statements like that in more detail, or at the very least word them in a somewhat less inflammatory manner.

      --
      I metamoderate all Redundant and Offtopic moderations as Unfair.
    13. Re:As if.. by TephX · · Score: 1
      I don't think the current deal is so sweet. Look at how many artist detest the recording industry, but have no choice but to hope they'll create a smash hit and make some money too. And if the arms race between the file sharing public and the media cartels + governments (it's a powerful combination, I know) is ultimately won by the former (and I'm about 50% sure it will), then artists will be forced to look at alternatives to copyright.

      I think the deal definitely is sweet, otherwise no one would use it, but I misstated for whom. I said "content producers" when I should have said "those assigned exclusive rights under copyright law". For music, that's generally the labels, not the artists.

      (Regarding big-name content creators cashing in on their names)

      Perhaps, but people are merciless. If you pull that stunt too often, you may need to record your next album in your own basement.

      Right, I said this is the smaller problem with this system. The bigger problem is how difficult it makes it for new content creators to break in, and how they get basically nothing for even a truly amazing first work.

      Heh. I'm not at all a libertarian. I think that laws that apply to everyone equally, and established by a democratic process, should be stronger than any random individual or corporation can ever get. [...]

      This is getting a bit off topic, so I'm not going to go into this in detail, but suffice it to say that I disagree. I'm not a big fan of democracy at all, if that helps you understand where I'm coming from, although I also don't like plutocracy (which, sadly, I think is more or less what we currently have in the USA) or autocracy.

      But going back to your point, I do think that western governments today refuse to do anything that's in the public interest if it harms the big corporations and free trade. A lot of people think that way too. That's why I point out that in my proposed system, you still have a free market instead of a bureaucracy that divides tax money among artists. And in this particular case, I happen to favour the free market too.

      Our government in particular definitely is reluctant (if not outright unwilling) to do anything that would harm our big corporations, but your plan would undoubtedly do that (at least for the content production industries). I don't see so much of an ideological goal to promote free markets - that seems to be merely one aspect of the government's helping out big business these days. What I'm saying is that I don't think either of our systems are politically viable right now, but perhaps they will become viable if things get bad enough, and if so, I still think my system would result in a greater overall quality and quantity of products of the mind and a greater ability for anyone who wants to to make use of them. I could still be convinced that that's not true, though (although short of seeing one of our systems atcually put into practice, that seems unlikely).

      --
      I metamoderate all Redundant and Offtopic moderations as Unfair.
  17. (un)Fair by joq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No proposed technical protection measures are strong enough to sustain a determined attack. Only in combination with models where the incentives to circumvent are limited, can technical solutions succeed.

    Odd how companies are spending so many resources in hopes that they'll score a home run. What I find strange is, that when other technologies which where hip where introduced (eg. cassettes, vhs tapes, etc), I don't recall the same effort as the 400lb gorillas running around with an attache of lawyer goons. Why not just go back to the basics and protest against those technologies, they're still being used... Odd...

    What is the feasibility of legal enforcement, both domestically and internationally? It is easy for researchers and market actors to forget that a solution that requires significant government intervention and enforcement is inherently bound to the confines of country boundaries and international treaties.

    Comments such as these rather scare me into thinking that at some point companies will come together and force their own private hell with a one world order rule on the net. Sure it would be a difficult task, but money talks, and I'm sure if the top ten companies in every country got together and lobbied for something like this, they might actually get it going.


    What are the impacts on user privacy and fair use?
    Privacy concerns frequently run counter to desires for economic efficiency. Therefore, any proposed solutions must acknowledge that there is a trade-off to be made. Fair use is important on its social merits alone, however, a broader adoption of fair and private uses will also serve to reduce user incentives to circumvent.


    Situations such as these make some purposely circumvent policies and rules. Especially when they're (rules and policies) shoved down someone's throat.

    1. Re:(un)Fair by poptones · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Odd how companies are spending so many resources in hopes that they'll score a home run. What I find strange is, that when other technologies which where hip where introduced (eg. cassettes, vhs tapes, etc), I don't recall the same effort as the 400lb gorillas running around with an attache of lawyer goons.

      You don't recall that because you weren't a radio station in the 70's and 80's being sued by the RIAA for playing whole sides of LPs instead of talking over single tracks. You weren't Philips, trying to grow your new compact cassette format while the RIAA tried to get it banned in the US market.

      The reason it's different now is purely because of the technology. Unlike those other battles - over physical technologies like the LP, the compact cassette, the reel to reel, DAT, Elcassette and so forth - or with established businesses that could be held economically accountable for breach of contract - this time the RIAA is forced to deal with a technology that is available to everyone and travels at the speed of light. This battle is purely a game of whack-a-mole, which the old order can never hope to win.

      Compulsory licensing is a copout. It's also inevitable. My guess is the EFF is just hoping this "olive branch" will help them to build a dialougue with the industry. That could help build credibility for the EFF in established circles, but I suspect it still may be too early to play this card without alienating the hard liners (like myself). The music industry may be on the ropes, but it has a very long way to fall and I don't want to see anyone catch them before they hit the mat.

      (BTW I was going to link you to a story about the RIAA and the LP, but trying to connect to RIAA.ORG returns me http://"""....""""" - it would appear they are, yet again, succumbing to a DNS attack...)

  18. bad jokes ahoy by leedo · · Score: 0

    I didn't realize the Upright Citizen's Brigade was so well respected. har har har.

  19. CRACK DOWN ON THIS PIRATE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet he used some password cracking thingee to post this intellectual property of the citizens of California. Fucker.

  20. Re:Hey tard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perporting? You should take your own advice and get a dictionary for yourself.

    You sir, are also a tard.

    Thank you.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=pur po rting

  21. Wipe that meme: The EFF isn't promoting licencing by geekotourist · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If you read the EFF's File-Sharing campaign site you'll see that they list and link to multiple ways that could be used to pay artists. Of these, only one is written by an EFF-related person, although Brad Templeton is not a staff member. His proposal- microrefunds- doesn't require DRM.

    Other EFF board members include John Perry Barlow [also associated w/the Grateful Dead] and John Gilmore, neither of whom would endorse systems that require DRM. Beyond that, the EFF's general vibe of promoting online privacy and the right to anonymity would make the EFF incompatible with DRM systems.

    I think that this bad meme (that the EFF wants C.L.) got into Slashdot a few months ago when an article covered the talk an EFF staff member gave on compulsory licencing. Talking about it or listing it as one method of compensating artists != endorsing it, but that confusion was made.

  22. Go Bears! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go Bears!

  23. You don't need to boycott them to hurt them by ShatteredDream · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't actively boycott them, rather I just actively look for good metal that isn't affiliated with them. Century Media is clean according to the RIAA Radar. They've got lot's of good stuff like Novembre, The Gathering, Lacuna Coil, Lullacry, Strapping Young Lad, Sentenced, Moonspell and some others. If you're into non-metal goth stuff, Projekt seems to be RIAA-clean too.

  24. a price of my choosing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't have the option to sell your song on KaZaA for a price of your choosing. DRM is easily worked around since it only takes one person to buy the file and record it as an mp3 and make it available on Gnutella. You are advocating for control (so you can set the price) which doesn't exist.

    1. Re:a price of my choosing by geekee · · Score: 1

      When Kazaa is properly policed, say in a few months, the few people who are able to crack DRM schemes still won't be able to broadcast the music elsewhere easily.

      --
      Vote for Pedro
  25. Re:I haven't read the article -- from the Author by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can provide you the raw LaTeX if you'd like that better (or a PS or DVI file for that matter).

    Fredrik Wallenberg

  26. Re:Hey tard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah? That's fucking fantastic! But, before you comment about the made up word, ask yourself if the comment actually:

    (1) Has anything of value
    (2) Says anything that hasn't been said before
    and
    (3) has been moderated up, WAY UP, because the moderation system sucks.

  27. when the problem is out of hand, check assumptions by vnv · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The customer is sitting here in the middle of a great struggle. The music industry is trying their best to come up with a one-sided application of police technology, laws, and law enforcement to squeeze more money out people they think are cheating them by sharing music with others.

    First of all, let us observe that it is very rare that hitting your customers with a massive hammer (filing lawsuits against them and treating them as criminals) ends up helping your business. And it's quite uncommon if you make someone's life a living hell (with Microsoft style Palladium DRM) that they are going to buy more product from you, much less have any positive opinion of you.

    Secondly, let us look at what is really going on with music today, not what the music industry likes to say is going on.

    1. Most people like music.

    2. Most people buy music.

    3. There is an amazing amout of music available on many labels from many geographic regions.

    4. There is no easy way to a consumer to listen via radio to all the music that is available.

    Today for radio we have:

    - very little variety left in big radio

    - in the US, big corporations dominate most of radio, further reducing choice and variety

    - very hard to find little radio stations

    - very few internet radio stations

    - internet radio is hard to find

    - internet radio is hard to use for many

    - radio stations of any sort cost money to run

    - commercial radio has many ads, reducing the desire of someone to listen for very long

    5. Outside of radio, the ability to listen to music before purchase in a commercial environment is even more limited. Some few music stores offer listening stations, but many times the equipment is broken or dirty.

    6. In reality, most people listen to much of the music they end up purchasing via their friends. In fact, many friendships are made because people have common tastes in music.

    7. The music industry's method of retailing is incredibly anti-customer and does not respect local laws and customs (try before buy, returns).

    Imagine you have a product that sells wrapped in a tough plastic wrapper with an additional sticky plastic security wrapper and often all that itself inside a hard plastic shell. This product obviously cannot be inspected. Whatever is inside the wrapper is unknown to the consumer.

    Now let's say you want to come up with a successful way of selling your wrappy product in stores and you come up with the following strategy:

    a. You don't sell your product uninformly in all stores so the consumer has to guess what store your product is available in.

    b. You don't provide a way for consumers to check if your product is in a local store.

    c. You always charge your customer full price, often over list price, if they buy it in a local store.

    d. You don't let your customer have any way to try (or even inspect) their merchandise before purchase.

    e. You don't allow your customer to return the merchandise if they don't like it. Or even if you do allow returns, it is for a fraction of the purchase price.

    8. The music industry has made very little effort to revamp their sales system.

    a. There are few record stores with vast libraries of music that you can listen to via your own headphones or speakers.

    b. There is usually no volume discount.

    c. There are almost never special deals on the music you want -- only the music the retailer wants to move/dump/promote.

    d. Most music stores have hours that are incompatible with work. As more people have to work longer hours, music stores should take this into account.

    e. Many music stores are hostile to customers that spend a long time there.

    f. Most music stores do not offer comforts such as nice chairs, coffee, or things to eat.

    9. The existing online music stores all require that you register to

  28. UCB Researchers!? by utexaspunk · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't trust any research done by the Upright Citizen's Brigade. This stuff isn't nearly as entertaining as their other works, anyway...

  29. Cal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roll on you Bears!

  30. DRM - Damn Rapacious Marketers by jefu · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The linked article was pretty good (though I agree with the poster who would prefer it not be in pdf, a format that I find seriously hard to read - especially with two column layouts).

    It really comes down to how much it will cost to do DRM and the cost of getting around it. The costs are not just monetary - but may include a complex tradeoff of penalties and benefits in many areas - including culture, the legal system, personal privacy, fundamental human rights and so on.

    Since corporations and hence their hired thugs in government don't much care about things like human rights, personal privacy or culture (realisticly, things are not set up to encourage them to do so, so why would we expect it), they will always make their decisions on the basis of corporate self interest - which is usually short term profit these days.

    There is almost certainly a place for DRM on some level - it encourages and rewards creative artists of all sorts (though the best artists seem to do their thing anyway). The problem is that as soon as we allow any serious IP protections (as DRM or whatever), there's no control on what the people who want to make profits can do with it.

    I worked for a company whose game plan was to sell a product for less than $100 - the product was in large part IP of one sort or another. Once the marketers got hold of it, the price was inflated to the $1500 range. Not because it was worth that - but they thought they could charge that much and get away with it. I had figured out how to do a cheap DRM scheme that would be just hard enough to break to make it cheaper to just buy the product (at the $100 mark). Shortly thereafter I left the company - with the DRM scheme still unimplemented.

    That kind of thinking "We can get away with charging that much" is pervasive. But its also problematic - just by charging that kind of inflated price, the marketers are providing higher motivation for people to find ways around paying the prices. Monopolistic practices (even in the small - one company holds the contract for the current top musical sensation) tend to exacerbate the problem. Now they want to impose DRM - worse yet they want to do it with the government's legal system - which means that they get the benefits (ability to raise prices, impose conditions...) but everyone else gets to pay the price.

    If there were no serious DRM, but downloading a permanent copy of a song cost (say) a dime, there'd be no incentive to break DRM - and most people (I suspect) would go along with it and its not hard to believe that the music industry would be the better and with smaller distribution costs, the artists would probably be better off. But when we allow and legally support DRM it is both an incentive to the industry to charge as much as it can, and an incentive to consumers to find ways to break it.

    Worse yet, we now have corporations that seem to have determined that they are owed a certain amount of money every year - and who are willing to pass laws to ensure that they get it. Essentially they want to tax us to ensure that their incomes stay where they'd like them to be.

    Given all this, I see no reasonable alternative but to ban DRM completely - but I suspect the corporations will have their own way and we'll end up spending $10 to listen to a single song three or four times. The interesting thing is going to be the underground that springs up to counter them - who knows what that will result in? I do quite love the law of unintended consequences.

  31. Ugh by autopr0n · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or is reading a two-column, page-by-page layout PDF on the web a huge pain in the ass? Why did they chose this formatting? Ugh.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Ugh by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Digital Reader Management... they want to annoy users to the maximum possible so people just assume they wrote a decent paper on the topic without actually reading the whole thing to check.

    2. Re:Ugh by fwallenberg · · Score: 1

      It is simply the required format for the conference. An HTML version is now available as well (see separate post).

    3. Re:Ugh by pclminion · · Score: 1

      That's the standard "academic" publication format, at least in the field of computer science. It looks just like any other university-produced research publication I've ever seen...

  32. In case of slashdotting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a mirror here that you can check out in case this gets slashdotted.

    1. Re:In case of slashdotting... by Laur · · Score: 1

      Har, that was amusing. What's even more amusing is the +2 Informative mod. Mods on crack, film at 11.

      --
      When you lose something irreplaceable, you don't mourn for the thing you lost, you mourn for yourself. - Harpo Marx
  33. Re:SHUT YOUR FUCKING FACE UNCLEFUCKER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should just ignore trolls like this. If it's any consolation to you, I thought your original post was not only Funny, but also Interesting and Insightful. (I wouldn't go as far as to call it Informative, though.)

  34. Re:Wipe that meme: The EFF isn't promoting licenci by SiliconEntity · · Score: 3, Informative

    the EFF's general vibe of promoting online privacy and the right to anonymity would make the EFF incompatible with DRM systems

    Compulsory licensing is not DRM, so your comment doesn't make sense. Compulsory licensing means that license holders (the "evil" record companies) are compelled to license their material - and compensated for it, of course. It is basically what makes radio possible.

    How it would work in P2P is that there would be some measure of which songs are being shared, a sort of Nielsen Ratings for P2P. Then the license holders for those songs would get paid in proportion to how popular they were.

    What would fund them? Possibly the good old modem tax, or some similar measure that charges people who do a lot of file sharing more than people who do less. Read this article by EFF attorney Fred von Lohmann to hear it from the horse's mouth.

    You are totally off base in thinking that the EFF does not support compulsory licensing. They have been pushing that "solution" for quite a while now.

    Personally, I think it is a terrible idea, and I'm glad to see someone has finally given it a good public roasting. Hopefully the concept will die a quiet death and the EFF can get back to protecting people's privacy instead of forcing them to pay a modem tax and putting the government in charge of paying artists.

  35. Re:when the problem is out of hand, check assumpti by orthogonal · · Score: 1

    First of all, let us observe that it is very rare that hitting your customers with a massive hammer (filing lawsuits against them and treating them as criminals) ends up helping your business.

    Hey, it's working for SCO, you insensitive clod!

    yours litigiously,
    Darl McBride

  36. Re:I haven't read the article -- from the Author by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1
    And yet, one can't help but notice that none of those formats are present in this directory... http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~rachna/papers/

    I don't care, I use Win2K and Adobe Products, but I just thought I'd tweak the usual crowd here a bit.

    In 100 years, it won't matter what OS you used or what computer language you authored software in... hell in my career none of those have mattered more than 4 years!

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  37. Disgusting PDF format?! by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    As someone who hates that disgusting Adobe PDF format (why people can't publish in HTML after all this is the web right ?) here is the text of the pdf.


    WTF? PDF is a format that renders the same regardless of the program used to view it, and can be generated by open-source linux software. HTML is a format that is viewed differently depending on the program and settings used, especially since the majority of people use IE (not exactly standards compliant). Moreover, PDF files can be easily saved and viewed later without worrying about saving every single image in the same path - which is often useful for research papers with charts and graphs all over the place (ejournals often have PDF files which, when printed out, are identical to the articles in the paper-based journal...try doing that with HTML.

    1. Re:Disgusting PDF format?! by Chmarr · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      WTF? PDF is a format that renders the same regardless of the program used to view it, and can be generated by open-source linux software. HTML is a format that is viewed differently depending on the program and settings used, especially since the majority of people use IE (not exactly standards compliant).... etc

      THat's all very well and fine if the layout of one's document was important. But... this is a research paper for crissakes... there is NO need for pixel-perfect rendering. HTML is just fine.

    2. Re:Disgusting PDF format?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PDF is perfect for something that will only ever be read off of a printed page, or must be identical to the printed version.

      HTML is better for something for which the content is useful regardless of the layout, and which may be read on a number of media, even audio. If SVG is ever fully supported, even all those graphs can be perfectly preserved.

      ejournals often have PDF files which, when printed out, are identical to the articles in the paper-based journal...

      woohoo. Who cares?

      It's possible to zoom an HTML page and still not require horizontal scrolling. Try doing that with PDF.

    3. Re:Disgusting PDF format?! by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      And since most people use IE, they can view mhtml which stores the images in the html code and is often smaller than PDF. KTHX you have been informed.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    4. Re:Disgusting PDF format?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      HTML is a format that is viewed differently depending on the program and settings used, especially since the majority of people use IE (not exactly standards compliant).

      Huh? What, you mean it, like, moves letters and words around randomly? You only need a handful of HTML1 text formatting tags for put out a paper. Why do you need pixel perfect layout?

    5. Re:Disgusting PDF format?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quote: "WTF? PDF is a format that renders the same regardless of the program used to view it,"

      That's the first problem. Others are:

      I need to start an extra program and even if this is done automatically, it takes time, resources and is unneccessar.

      I cannot scroll properly in that damn Adobe crap. Reading text at the page end, hit cursor down and wham it shows you the next page. How are you supposed to view two page-borders at the same
      time?

      I cannot zoom the font, only the entire page (which makes it unreadable, because you have to scroll elft/right.

      There are so many things wrong with displaying a fixed-size format on a variable sized monitor that I can't count them. And screw the printing, I want to read it on the monitor...

  38. Re:when the problem is out of hand, check assumpti by vnv · · Score: 1

    Dear Darl,

    We've been over this many times. Just because something is working in your head, doesn't mean it's working in the real world.

    If you want to be able to clearly see the consequences of your actions in the real world, you must take your medicine.

    Please take your medicine, Darl! These crazy lawsuits and criminal charges are not a healthy way to ask for attention.

    Sincerely,
    Your Shrink

  39. Re:Hey tard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you're still a hypocritical tard :)

  40. HTML version now available by fwallenberg · · Score: 2, Informative

    In response to those that (for good reasons) do not like PDF files we made a quick and dirty conversion into HTML. The HTML version is avalable here.

  41. Re:Hey tard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, wrong tard. I thought you were making fun of the use of "pertorted." Didn't see the -1 post you were replying to. Much obliged.

  42. Re:Hey tard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Somebody doesn't know the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs. Fuckhead: he is using it transitively -- albeit incorrectly -- since issue is the direct object of collude. You are correcting him and telling him that he should be using it as he is using it (vis-a-vis transitivity). YOU FAIL IT!!.

    Second of all, it can be both transitive and intransitive. Yes, so you were both wrong in what you said, and wrong in what you meant to say if you hadn't been quite so ignorant as to not know the difference between a transitive and intransitive verb. YOU FAIL IT AGAIN!!

    p.s. If your dictionary doesn't have both senses, I suggest you get a decent dictionary. The OED has both.

    I'm getting pretty tired of giving you this ass whiping, but I thought I'd point out just one or two more failures. To wit: 1) "Buy a dictionary, why don't ya!" FAILS IT. This is known as a comma splice; and 2) "You sir, are a tard" sort of FAILS IT, as it would be better with another comma before 'sir' (it is clearly parenthetical).

    Don't worry about thanking me for the grammar lesson. It's been my pleasure. I do this as a public service.

  43. DNA imprinted DRM Keys & the like by felonious · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why don't we just cut the shit and agree to be impregnated by a hairy ape, last name Wadd, with a genetically altered genome with the following genetic content which is sponsored in part by the RIAA and MPAA...

    Here's what's included with the DNA which is actually RNA but hey you don't need no stinkin' virus protection...but if you do Symantec has a new cyberoranistic based anti-virii protection available in subscription form with no pop-ups...

    Ok the list

    Chromosomes with anti-hackable, DRM enhanced, 128 bit encrypted, user-imprinted mac address.
    (Helps to track you to each bit of legal and illegal content you download)

    Nuclei with embedded GPS technology of which you can be tracked in case you violate any MDC (multi-death corporation('s) (TM)) DRM schemes.

    MS passport login access to your DNA w/ hotmail email account

    Cell based DRM punishment devices with MS WinX86 based cytoplasm which, if you are found to be in possesion of copyrighted music, Nsync, etc., will start a downward spiral on a cellular level. This CLE (cellular level event (TM)) will render your muscles useless until a DRM agent is dispatched to your house, found via the nuclei embedded GPS and swipes his/her keycard down your ass. After the agent has cleaned his/her keycard and you have been B-Swiped (TM) the agent will unlock your CLE (TM) event in progress and send you off to jail.

    All of this of course is done in the end user's best interest to better serve the end user's experience.

    The enhanced DNA and all other parts of said DNA are built on the .net platform and .gif.exe, & .pdf.vbs languages of which are the most secure and impenetrable as demonstrated IRL especially when using dual extensions.

    Remember as we continue to innovate and create the best user experience we will need to constantly patch the underlying system with updates that will make it all better.

    DRM is for the user, by the user, and it is the future. Accept it and live a long productive life. There is no spoon....

    --
    You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
  44. Are you a troll, or what? by mfh · · Score: 1

    To put it bluntly: yes, there is a need for pixel-perfect rendering in a research paper, just like there's a need for pixel-perfect rendering in books, magazines, or any other published material.

    What do you think a chart, or a graph, or a table is? Just an arbitrary collection of pixels?

    Good spatial organization is an important part of presenting scientific and/or research data accurately and aesthetically.

    Would you really trust the published results of years of research to, say, a non-portable CSS/HTML document, and hope for the best when your peers around the world try to print it?

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Are you a troll, or what? by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 1

      Are you a troll, or what?

      Good spatial organization is an important part of presenting scientific and/or research data accurately and aesthetically.

      This is what HTML was ORIGINALLY designed for.

      Would you really trust the published results of years of research to, say, a non-portable CSS/HTML document, and hope for the best when your peers around the world try to print it?

      Cosidering that html is the widest used cross-platform document format, I wonder if your dictionary contains the same definition of "non-portable" that mine does.

      --
      Like what I said? You might like my music
  45. From the EFF's own web site by geekotourist · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From their main campaign page:

    "...The problem is that there is no adequate system in place that allows music lovers access to their favorite music while compensating artists and copyright holders. It's time to start addressing this problem head on. In the past, we've used a system called "compulsory licensing" to reconcile copyright law with the benefits of new technologies like cable television and webcasting. This approach has drawbacks, but it's certainly better than the direction that the recording industry is taking us today.

    Many innovative payment models have been proposed (with or without a compulsory license), and we have highlighted some of them here,..." (emphasis added)

    Fred's April article (which according to the EFF "explores a possible alternative": this doesn't read like strong support by the EFF to me) is talking about how to compensate artists. Fred writes that there are many ways to compensate them, of which one could be compulsory licensing, and that one way to do c.l. is ISP fees. Again, this doesn't read like a policy endorsement but instead an exploration of alternatives: ISP fees/modem taxes are a subset of a subset of ways to compensate artists. And talking about it != endorsing it.

  46. HTML for layout? No. Try "Markup". by mfh · · Score: 1

    HTML was never "originally" designed for pixel-perfect accuracy, standardized "look", or standardized spatial relationships. Why do you think absolute positioning via CSS and XML extensions exist these days? Because HTML works so damn well for that sort of thing?

    What happens when you resize a browser window? What happens when you resize a PDF or PS reader window? In a browser, the document's layout changes drastically. In a PDF or PS reader, it doesn't.

    The original design intention was for easy markup and emphasis, not absolute *anything*. Everything to make that sort of thing happen has been an addition or a hack.

    Not layout.

    You're wrong. Just accept that and move on.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  47. Re:HTML for layout? No. Try "Markup". by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You're wrong. Just accept that and move on.

    You're a asshole, just accept that and move on. :)

    I re-read my post, however, and realized that my first point came out totally incorrect. I was saying that HTML was originally designed for providing a cross-platform way to publish scientific and academic documents that could be read on any machine. That was its original purpose, and the world wide web is just a big bastard child of that purpose.

    I could go into detail, but you're too much a asshole to be worth my time.

    --
    Like what I said? You might like my music
  48. Sure, mandatory licensing by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Make the [MP|RI]AA sell non-discriminatory licenses for content that's already out there, rather than allowing them to throttle the channels of distribution. That's in the spirit of copyright law, because the intent of copyright law is to put content into the public domain... pause, think... and the mechanism for doing it is to reward rights owners. So by having Joe Public distribute the content, then reward the rights owner, everybody wins, right?

    Well, sure, but there's a tiny problem. It's that nobody remembers that. The publishers have a vested interest in not remembering it. In fact, they've paid huge sums of money to Congress to forget it. The DMCA, and DMCA case law explicitely refutes it. The "exclusive rights" have become paramount, trumping the intent to make the content available.

    So, you make the [MP|RI]AA license content. Fine. Does that mean they have to make it available without DRM? Nope. Does it mean that you get the right to break the DRM to use it? Well, technically, if you can do it yourself without obtaining or making available a tool to do it, so, de facto, no. DMCA case law has already made this clear. Congress said that it's not legal to obtain tools even for use on content that you licensed, and the courts have (astonishingly) upheld that.

    So what good does licensing do, when you can only get crippleware content, and devices that will play crippleware content, and when you can't legally obtain tools that let you uncripple it?

    I applaud the EFF's intent, but defeating rampant DRM is a pre-requisite to any shake up in licensing, not an afterthought.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  49. a critique of to critique by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could someone help me by explaining when and how the noun 'critique' became a verb?

    1. Re:a critique of to critique by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to the Oxford English Dictionary (2nd ed.), "critique" became a transitive verb in 1751 with the publication of The History of Pompey the Little by Francis Coventry.

      The usage occurs in the introduction:

      BUT besides these, there is another set, who never read any modern books at all. They, wise men, are so deep in the learned languages, that they can pay no regard to what has been published within these last thousand years. The world is grown old ; mens geniusses are degenerated ; the writers of this age are too contemptible for their notice, and they have no hopes of any better to succeed them. Yet these gentlemen of profound erudition will contentedly read any trash, that is disguised in a learned language, and the worst ribaldry of Aristophanes, shall be critiqued and commented on by men, who turn up their noses at Gulliver or Joseph Andrews.
      msq
  50. Copy protecting music == fallacy by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've said this often enough that I'm competing with RMS for trotting out tired old lines, but it never stopped him, so I'll say it again:

    ANY ATTEMPT TO COPY-PROTECT MUSIC IS FATALLY FLAWED.

    First, you can hijack /dev/dsp simply by hacking the module which implements it.

    Secondly, even if you can't hijack /dev/dsp, you can still grab the data being sent to the sound card over the bus {ISA, PCI or USB}. You can buy prototyping kits from specialist electronics suppliers with some of the hardware ready made {basically a PCB to fit the slot with some TTL or a gate array for address decoding and the rest composed of breadboard-style copper strips}. The source for the sound card driver will give you all you need to know about how to interpret the data as it comes through. You can then repackage it how you like - wav, mp3 or ogg vorbis.

    Thirdly, even if you can't grab the data from the bus, you can grab the analogue signal coming out of the jack socket on the back of the sound card and convert that back to digital. You will have to do some filtering and, to avoid creating artefacts, it will have to be done in the analogue domain. Processing through analogue also should destroy any inaudible "watermarking".

    Fourthly, even if someone has permanently soldered a steel-armoured cable feeding a pair of headphones directly to the sound card, which has been potted in several layers of chemically-different resins with sharp springy bits that will fly out and cut you to ribbons if you try to interfere with it, you can still point a mic at each of the headphones and get a signal that way. This is the least pretty option, but nothing can ever make it go away.

    The success of any analogue ripping scheme is dependent upon the equipment used and widely-available consumer tat is possibly going to pollute the filesharing market with inferior copies of songs. This may well be what the RIAA wants - effectively, in terms of reproduction quality, a return to the tape days. On the other hand, there will always be a group of people who are fastidious about quality, and all the necessary equipment already exists. So who knows? Maybed we'll see a new elite audiophile network. The only thing I don't like is the word "audiophile", which sounds too much like the sort of thing News of the World readers might not like.

    The RIAA's methods are never going to work because they are trying to achieve a fundamental impossibility along the lines of perpetual motion or lead-into-gold. Either they will realise they have to give up, or they will kill themselves with the effort. What the RIAA should ask themselves is this: if photocopiers, scanners and printers are so cheap and readily available, then why do people buy newspapers and magazines instead of just making photocopies of them or scanning them and uploading them onto the internet?

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  51. Re:(un)Fair Cake and eat it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Copyright means you must publish, an in some countries lodge a copy in the central library; in return copyright protection with fair rights exceptions may be granted..

    A real agument can be made that licencing does not constitute publishing - therefore not copyrightable, and therefore zero public protection. DRM attempts to sidestep this issue; but an analog recording may cause issues.

    In all of this claptrap. I see nothing that helps the blind or sight impaired which does seem a tad antisocial. DRM is but a delaying tactic, because of the lofy conclusion that there is no such thing as the perfect mousetrap.

    As for compulsory, nonsense. The next generation of legal minors will demonstrate possession is 9/10ths law.

  52. Re:In case of slashdotting... Great troll! by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

    Decent pun too.

    --


    He tried to kill me with a forklift!
  53. Re:DRM is flawed by JamesP · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Next thing, RIAA will implant a DRM chip in our brains, so the signal is decoded there and injected there directly into your hearing part of the brain... But still, you could hack that... The best thing about DMCA is since you can't break the encriptin, the methods will became ever more simpler (i.e. simpler than rot13... maybe rot1) making it easy to break...

    --
    how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
  54. Re:HTML for layout? No. Try "Markup". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, but not true research papers. Real research papers need well formatted images, in proper locations, and really do need a locked layout.

    This *is* possible in HTML, and was a possibility for it's use. However, IE won't render it, and well, IE's dominating the market still. (Though go read the browser wars post from yesterday, I kinda liked it).

    Anyway, Physics here is a troll, don't feed him.

  55. Re:when the problem is out of hand, check assumpti by superflippy · · Score: 1

    While I agree with most of your post, I'd like to add a comment to this one point:
    internet radio is hard to find

    One neat feature of iTunes is its radio menu. Click on the "Radio" label and you get a list of hundreds of internet radio stations, grouped by genre. iTunes lists the station's name, a blurb about the kind of music it plays, and its bandwidth. Just click on the station and voila, it's streaming through the iTunes interface.

    It's thanks to this feature of iTunes that I've discovered a lot of small, specialized internet radio stations. Windows Media Player 9 has the same thing. So, internet radio stations are easier to find than you'd think.

    --
    Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
  56. What about 'soft' DRM? by Second_Derivative · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I dunno why I'm posting this seeing as I've missed the "prime time" for this story as it were, but arguing that DRM is inherently evil is a bit like arguing that DSL inherently sucks because your IP is dynamic and you pay by the megabyte (ok I have an enlightened provider where neither is true but then I'm a Brit) -- just because the current implementation is greedy doesn't mean the idea itself is useless.

    I see a future that works along these sorts of lines: Firstly, record companies will be a lot smaller and less wealthy. This is of course the real reason why they oppose internet distribution but I think we all realise that however hard they fight this will eventually be the case. Secondly, I see them providing a two-level service from their website. A modest, flat subscription fee lets you download your favourite music from their own well connected server network, in whatever format (OGG, FLAC, MP3, AAC...) you want, capped at, say, 1GB of downloads per month. I've got a dedicated server where I get 200GB for $100/mo, so a $10/mo subscription fee would cut them a handsome profit of about $9.50, by that pricing scale. These files would be encrypted.

    The second layer service is free to all comers; no email address required, no ad profiling information, just a username and password registration. This level doesn't supply any music, just keys for each song. You go on Kazaa or whatever, download whatever form is available (keys are issued on a per-song basis, not per-encoding), then decrypt it with a key that your player acquires by means of a web service API.

    This depends on copyright law being made more sane; specifically, that it is illegal to redistribute copyrighted content FOR PROFIT. Also, the other big problem is that most of the record companies' revenue comes from teenagers, and you have to be over 18 to have a credit card and hence participate in transactions over the internet (I'm not quite 18 yet and I can attest that running said dedicated server is a real pain in the ass at present). Though if it's a subscription service I suppose they could get their parents to pay for it, the important thing is this has to be straightforward and easy to pay for above all else.

    Given this scenario though, I think that artists and labels could continue to turn quite a handsome profit. People resent being bullied and ripped off, so music companies probably are losing out on a lot of revenue to the filesharing networks at the moment. However, stack these two options against each other. What would you rather have; an unreliable, hard to use filesharing network with its associated boat load of scumware? Or a clean ad-free page where you can download an entire album in just the format you like it at the click of a button and at maximum speed? Heck I'd pay more than $10/mo for that. I still buy CDs because I like stuff in 64kbit OGG (I'm not an audiophile and I can cram an immense amount of stuff onto my 128MB P800 mobile phone at that bitrate)

    Or, if you do want to download something off Kazaa, then the act of getting a song key tells the record company that someone is listening to this song, and that will help them reimburse the artists accordingly. Yes of course this DRM can be broken, and yes some people will break it by stream hijacking or whatever but then _there is no point in doing so anymore_. The downloader contacts a record company server to get the key and by doing so they establish that this is the correct file, that it is of good quality and that the artist benefits from their download, and the recording company can build a good profile of just who's popular at the moment, and maybe the media player can discreetly ask where you got the file from so they can see which distribution channels work best. Go up to a friend of yours, tell them about this great new band you just heard and give them a crypted disk of some of their best tracks. Legal and beneficial to all, same spirit as the open source systems everyone's so enamoured of over here.

    And, if you acknowledge that pe

  57. All your right... by Ankle · · Score: 1

    User: What happen ?
    Error message: Somebody set up us the DRM
    Clippy: We get signal
    Captain: What !
    Clippy: Main screen turn on
    User: It's You !!
    RIAA: How are you gentlemen !!
    RIAA: All your right are belong to us
    RIAA: You are on the way to destruction
    User: What you say !!
    RIAA: You have no chance to survive make your time
    RIAA: HA HA HA HA ....
    User: Take off every 'zig'
    User: You know what you doing
    User: Move 'zig'
    User: For great justice

    I just couldn't help myself...

  58. Century Media rules. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But no mention of Iced Earth? What's wrong with you, man?

  59. Re:HTML for layout? No. Try "Markup". by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 1

    This *is* possible in HTML, and was a possibility for it's use. However, IE won't render it, and well, IE's dominating the market still. (Though go read the browser wars post from yesterday, I kinda liked it).

    Give me a link, I'm interested.

    I'd like to point out, even though you're Anonymous Coward and you're not listening, that it's very possible to provide images in precise locations in html and still allow the page to shrink and expand for different browser sizes and different screen resolutions. In my professional opinion, web developers who don't account for this are lazy. :)

    --
    Like what I said? You might like my music
  60. not necessarily by alizard · · Score: 1
    And quests such as not buying CDs in order to protest the RIAA only result in more justification for the RIAA to encourage cracking down.

    Not necessarily. If you buy CDs from independent artists instead, the word will get around and the message that it isn't that people object to buying music, it's just that we won't buy it from scum.

    Shifting our buying will give the music industry and the politicians the message we want to send. You are right that simply refusing to buy won't do it, this gives the labels the excuse to scream PIRACY!!! even louder and buy more restrictive laws from politicians.

    If the RIAA labels lose even a few percent of their sales to independent musicians (which will probably double their earnings), the music press will notice. RIAA label musicians will start looking for ways out of their contracts, people who labels want to sign up will hear of the boycott and say "No thanks", and major labels will have a choice:

    Loudly disassociate themselves from the RIAA and their attacks on the music community.
    or
    Go out of business. Even a few percentage points drop in sales will be enough to reduce the value of the major labels far enough that their parent companies will dump them, especially if it's clear the boycott isn't going away until the labels are ready to do honest business with the public and their musicians.

    Basically, a boycott of the RIAA major labels with shifting entertainment dollars to their competitors is win-win for all of us, whether musicians or consumers (though of course, most musicians are music consumers, too).

    Except for a minority of greedy fuckheads at the major record labels.

    So if a RIAA label boycott picks up steam, make a point of buying a few CDs from non-RIAA artists (lots of indie musicians on the Web with sites where you can buy music). In fact, if you want to fuck over the major labels, you should do this even if you can't find an indie band you like.

    In the event of a serious public RIAA label boycott, every dollar you spend on indie musician products is another nail in the coffin of the major labels.

  61. have a free clue by alizard · · Score: 1
    PDF is an open format. There are Open Source apps that'll vie PDF no matter which OS you use.

    Google is your friend, I don't know which OS you run.

  62. Hey, look, astroturf! by alizard · · Score: 1
    For the slashdotters new to the concept, astroturf is phony grass roots political speech / action, like when a corporate PR firm hires a bunch of people to make homemade picket signs to protest some new piece of legislation in progress they don't like.

    Compulsory licensing is socialism.

    If it wasn't for compulsory broadcast licensing, the RIAA, either as the people paying the PR firm that signs your paychecks, or the people whose propaganda you're mindlessly parroting would not have a multibillion dollar record industry to represent.

    If the record industry had been able to charge the original AM stations playing the "Tin Pan Alley" stuff in the 20s-40s 50 cents per play, there wouldn't be radio stations in every town today to accept major label payola to advertise whatever crap the major labels think they can unload on the music-oriented public. Nobody would have put that kind of money into serving an unknown market. So... no content, no millions of kids making crystal sets, no market for the first consumer electronics products (radio, not phonograph, the audio amp came out of vacuum tube technology invented for radio)...

    In the purist Libertarian universe, government action is never a good idea. In the real world, we got a broadcast radio, a consumer electronics industry and later a television industry out of it and the DARPA research project that later became the Internet you're using to unload your latest droolings on.

    It's a good thing that the record industry in the 1920s didn't have any political power, otherwise 21st century technology would look a lot like that found in the 1940s.

    It looks now like now that the record industry has some political power, it's trying to use a combination of DRM and bad law bought from corrupt legislators to make future consumer technological development possible.

    Well, you can buy a Palladium box and a Microshit OS to go with it if you want. When your box gets h4xx0rd and you can't fix it because you can't access the part of computer memory your friendly neighborhood script kiddies are using to serve up pr0n and tracks ripped off the band that's the latest new, hot teen sensation of the sort that have the Feds breathing down your neck, you probably won't be able to whine to us even if we were inclined to listen. Tour ISP will have unplugged you for filesharing. Perhaps WebTV will still be around by then which will give you a "computer" that fits your needs and an ISP who'll have you.

    Make flamebait, you're going to get flamed.

  63. UCB Researchers by Sphere1952 · · Score: 1

    The paper ignores the fact that, at least in the U.S., there is no such thing as Intellectual Property -- except for a very limited form granted under Patent Law.

    --
    Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.