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How To Make Dual Booting A (Bigger) Pain
the_phenom writes "Thinking of dual-booting your Windoze XP 17" Toshiba P25 laptop? Think again - this one 'uses a DVD with an already setup version of Windows XP Home and then transfers it to the notebook's hard drive,' preventing the normal setup procedure and thus, dual-booting." This reminds me of the unfriendly practice on some PC builders' parts of including an OS "backup" only on a hard-drive partition.
They also included the Windows drivers for the hardware there, too. I had to wipe the drive and do a Ghost image install of Win2k, and only after I'd wiped both(?!) partitions on the drive did it occur to me that I needed one of them to get all the hardware working. I eventually got an ethernet driver re-assembled from floppies and got on the internet to download the rest. That's 2 hours of my life I'll never get back. . .
You are not the customer.
How is this news? Tosh and other vendors have been selling PCs with only a "recovery CD" that wipes everything for years.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
One of my HP machines had a similar setup where Windows 98 (one of my older machines) was distributed as an image on 2 "HP Recovery CDs".
To install Linux on these boxes, I simply resized the Windows 98 partition down to 2 GB and used the other 16GB of freespace to install Linux.
"I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
How is this any different from the "system recovery" disks that have been shipping with laptops for years. I can't remember when I last bought a laptop that came with just a plain OS install disk.
Use Partition Magic to shrink the XP partition and create space for a Linux partition. How is this any different than thousands of other computer systems out there that come with a rescue disk to rebuild the system to the factory installed image? Yes, for the 1% of users that want to dual boot it will be a minor pain. For the other 99% of the users a rescue image like that is a godsend and saves support costs for the company. If the computer is completely hosed, stick the DVD in and reformat/reload. No need to pay a computer geek to work his magic on your broken Windows box.
If it's a regular Windows installation on an NTFS disk you can still install Linux by resizing. You can use either Partition Magick or the first disk of the Mandrake 9.1 set to resize the NTFS disk. Make sure to defrag the NTFS partition from within Windows first before doing this procedure or else the contents will be destroyed.
The problem seems to be that the image is the size of the disk so reinstallation of Windows, once Linux is already installed, will overwrite all partitions. It's just a complete disk image on the DVD. One workaround is to do the Windows installation, install Linux, use something like g4u to create a copy of your disk.
Or, use dd from the Linux partition to copy the Windows image once it's all installed.
Go buy a copy of Partition Magic. Resize the C drive down, then install Linux. How easy could this get?
LOAD "SIG",8,1
LOADING...
READY.
RUN
Dual booting without any cooperation from the windows end is easy:
1. Partition using linux installer, creating a partition for XP. Quit the installer.
2. Install Windows, which will only see the C:\ partition you left it. This will also install onto the MBR, but that's ok.
3. Install Linux. Grub or whatever will now be on the MBR, and everything is peachy.
Unless there is some secret low level HD work going on, I don't get it.
It isn't that hard. I had to do this with my Dell. Most systems now come with "image restore" disks instead of installation disks for software piracry reasons.
Now, to dual-boot all you have to do is:
1) resize your windows partition using any available tool (I purchased partition magic).
2) Install linux in the newly created free space.
3) Put the bootloader (I'm partial to Grub now) into the MBR.
And you're off to the races!
Of course, this means that if your windows partition goes south you have to backup your linux partition and start from scratch, but that's the risk you take.
It doesn't stop you from installing linux, it doesn't stop you from dual-booting. It is simply a quick and easy way to install windows for a fixed hardware platform.
Jason Pollock
here...r esize.htm l
http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs
Now we just have to pour some resource into it.
Actually, the HPaq EVO D510's we've got at work came with a recovery CD that you're supposed to start with and a WinXP Pro CD that you put in during the recovery. If you just put in the XP CD, it boots and installs normally. I'm not sure if it actually works, because there is no key on the CD case, but I have been able to get as far as the point where it asks for the key. I suppose the recovery CD handles that part. If you could find out what the key is that they're using (I doubt it's the FCKGW one), you might be able to install XP clean.
;-).
Or, as clean as is possible
Anyway, maybe it's possible to just put in the OS CD, if you get that option with other vendors.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
As others have stated, this is a non-issue.
My Compaq Presario 2715US came with Windows XP on a series of three CD's that will wipe everything before putting them back on. As far as I know, this is fairly common practice nowadays. The twist here is that all of the Microsoft applications (XP and Works) and the drivers are within the image, all of the other apps that came with it (WinDVD, Symantec Anti-Virus, etc.) are included on their own CD's.
It's easy to make a dual-boot. Resize the NTFS partition, and then install Linux into the empty space. GRUB or LILO will then install into the MBR, and presto, dual-boot!
The thing that I hate about XP versus Windows 2000 (and earlier, I believe) is that XP seems to deliberately clobber the MBR. For example, if I install Linux (and GRUB or LILO), then install XP afterwards, GRUB/LILO is gone, I have to use a boot-disk to get back into Linux. This pisses me off to no end.
As for those images... If you get Windows 2000 or Windows XP images, you've almost got a full-bootable copy. The image for my laptop was made with (I think) DriveImage, and I was able to get an evaulation copy of it, and it allowed me to extract the i386 (CABs) directory. From there, I just had to borrow a few files (like setup.exe, etc.) from a friends' XP installation CD (which indicently came with a Dell laptop he bought), and make it bootable according to Bink's pageOf course, not knowing fully about how Windows XP's activation works, I didn't want to just make a copy of his XP install CD, in case it was keyed for a Dell laptop. And, just in case, it somehow cut him off. :)
-- Joe
The Knoppix CD has QTparted. This is a great GUI wrapper for various tools to partition and resise partitions. You can even shrink NTFS partitions. The Knoppix CD boots to Linux without doing anything to the hard drive. It is great. Free download of ISO image is available.
/boot partition.)
You can also use the Knoppix CD to install Debian Unstable to the hard drive. 2 warnings:
1) It will put LiLo on the MBR. ( I prefer to put it on the boot record of the
2) After hard drive intall it will first boot with KDE in German! It is hard to find the right GUIs to get it into English. There are instructions on the internet on how to find these GUIs.
Religion is the main cause of atheism.
Ermmm... every company does the same thing, I believe it's because of OEM Licensing, you only get a restore CD not a full on install of windows. Dell doesn't, or at least didn't 6 months ago, do it on their latitudes, but even that is a model specific CD.
No, but it will dual-boot Linux, and OS X. And with OS X, why would you want Winodws in the first place? Not to mention Windows, and any other x86 OS will run fine in VPC.
In addition to Linux, I believe there's OepnBSD and NetBSD PPC releases, along with Mac OS 9. Diversity isn't really an issue here.
To the original poster, why wait for a G5? My 800mhz G3 iBook isn't slow by any means; in many respects it's similar to my PowerMac G4.
HP does it too.
The only bad thing I see in that is that serial on the back of notebook doesn't work with common install CD.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
Even Macs come with Software REstore disks so eh shuitpupupadf
Macs come with both restore disks (for the bundled apps and Classic system folder) AND a full installer for the OS. To restore a Mac's hard drive to out-of-the-box condition, you first must install the OS from the CD, and then use the restore disk for the other stuff.
Also, OS X installations are universal-- if you install OS X to a FireWire HD, any Mac of the same vintage or older, desktop or laptop, will be able to boot from that installation and have full functionality of all its devices. Macs are a total breeze to prep and roll out in quantity because of this-- you don't need umpteen different disk images to cover different flavors of hardware, just one created on the newest Mac you've got.
As far as I know, this was true for Mac OS 8.x and 9.x as well. I rolled out machines that way for years and never had a problem.
~Philly
Because it works like this...
1. Boot machine for first time with DVD in drive. It boots from DVD.
2. Agree to be Bill Gates' towel boy, click "okay"
3. System them uses Windows equivalent of "dd" to copy image from DVD to hard drive, overwriting anything on the drive.
What you'd end up having to do is install Win first, then resize the partition and install Linux afterwards.
If you have to reinstall Windows, it'll kill your existing Linux partition because it will overwrite the drive with its image.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I have a Toshiba laptop with the same recovery disks (3 CD's instead of the DVD, but the same concept).
It was a bit of a pain at first, as I did have to buy System Commander (which is very cool as a boot-loader and as a utility) to get around this. Since the install image is NTFS you'll need Partition magic 7 or 8 or SC7. Not sure if there is a freeware utility to munge NTFS partitions.
Once up and running, I took a snapshot of the resized XP partition and now I don't need the recovery disks. It is nice though that Toshiba installs all of the drivers for you, and that the system works out of the box after re-imaging.
As for running another O/S on this laptop, Linux and Solaris are VERY well supported, so I don't think I'd give up this laptop just cause of this slight inconvenience. The laptop is a 1415-S173 Celeron 1.8GHz which has a beautiful screen and was $850.00 new with rebate and 512MB. In short, it kicks price/performance ass.
Contrary to popular belief, life is not a bitch. It is far far worse.
there are programs other than PM that can resize ntfs.
and, I quote from up above "and then transfers it to the notebook's hard drive,' preventing the normal setup procedure and thus, dual-booting."
in other words, FUD
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,
I have never tried, but it seems you could install WinXP, resize the drive, install Linux, and then use "dd" to backup the windows partition.
On my laptop, I wanted the WinXP drive to use fat32 vice ntfs. The way I went about it was to spend about an hour on kazaa downloading WinXP. I have a license to use WinXP, and now I have a WinXP CD. It may not be legal, but it is completely ethical.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
I can't think of a single machine I've purchased in the last ten years where I've "started' with the load of crap that the manufacturer tries to foist on me. Even if running windows, the very first thing I do is boot from a clean install CD, delete EVERYTHING from the hard drive, and install from scratch.
Sure, I'm missing out on the 100-odd garbage programs, screen savers, backgrounds, and junk that the mfgr has cluttered up the distro with, but that's the whole point.
I've never seen a machine that won't install from a boxed copy of XP/2000/NT, etc.
I read this article yesterday. I promptly emailed the editor. Here is a copy of my email.
r esize. html
To Whom it May Concern:
I have recently read an article on your website claiming there is no way
to set up a dual-boot system on the new toshiba laptop. This is not true.
There are now non-destructive ntfs filesystem resizing tools for linux.
I personally used a live-CD to resize my windows partition before installing
debian. I know that Mandrake comes with the tools by default and has the
option for resizing windows partitions (NTFS) from the installer.
here is a link to the FAQ:
http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/ntfs
I hope you can attach an editor's note so future readers will not be
misled by this article.
thank you,
david tansey
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
Mandrake 9.1 can resize FAT, FAT32 and NTFS partitions on its 1st disk, without actually installing the system.
Dual-booting is always easier when Windows is installed first... Windows really dislikes being anywhere but on hda1, and it requires some bootloader trickery to get it to work when it isn't there. Not to mention the fact that Windows tends to overwrite your bootloader. However, wouldn't partitioning the hard drive make it harder for the restore DVD to work? I think the title should be: "Dual booting: How to make using a restore DVD a (bigger) pain"
If it weren't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate.
A) Win XP Home is a crippled piece of shit that no one should be running anyway. Pick up a copy of XP Pro (minimum) somewhere, install CD. Borrow it from work, borrow it from a friend, get a friend to make you an ISO copy of his/her disk, pirate it from the web if'n you got no better options.
B) Make sure you have all the drivers you need. Video, Sound, Monitor, Motherboard, NIC, USB Hub, DVD code/player. XP will find and install most of these for you, but you want disks for anything that it won't find or where you have drivers that are newer and better than the supplied WHQL drivers.
C) Format Drives: Create an NTFS C: partition of 8-16 GB, and a VFAT D: Partition of 32 GB. Keep all your installation programs, data, mp3's etc, on the D: drive where you can access them with ease from Windows or Linux. This way if you need to blow away your Windows boot partition you've got all the tools to rebuild from D:
D) Install system. Look ma! No AOL icon, No MS (Doesn') Works, No pre-installed MusicMatch (which also sucks). In other words: none of that annoying garbage with which system vendors load up their PC's.
E) Now change the theme to Windows Classic or Windows XP (modified). Move the start bar to top for that "Apple" feel. The start menu makes a lot more graphical sense this way. Make the background "None" and set up the backgroud as Black or Some Other Dark color, so you don't burn out your eyes as quickly and waste resources with Internet support screen backgrounds. Kill all the menu transition effects and all the shadow effects, unless you goal is have a slower interface.
D) You have a minimal Win XP Pro setup! Install the programs *you* want. But run the annoying little auto-updater -- you *want* to know about bug patches asap.
This is the best way to get performance out of WinXP. And don't run a lot of stupid bloaty shit like Bonzai Buddy, or the Weather Tray Bar, or msmsgs.exe, etc.
You shouldn't be running system configurations as the vendor ships them. That's a crock. They're always buggy, because they load too much crap.
Divide up the rest of you Hard Drive into Partitions for Linux, you should probably have room enough for several variants if'n you want
DIY!
If you have to reinstall Windows, it'll kill your existing Linux partition because it will overwrite the drive with its image.
That is not entirely correct. If you put your Linux install far enough back on the disk it will still be there. The Toshiba recovery program only makes the filesystem, it does not destructively format the disk, so only the first couple of gigs get overwritten. I sort of stumbled onto this little gem with my Toshiba last year. I had bought WindowsXP (please no flames, this was before I heard about Linux), formatted the drive, split it to two 10 BB partitions and installed XP. Several months later I learned of Linux and installed it on the second disk.
I realized that XP was just God-awful slow and decided I wanted to restore the original WinMe (since I wasn't using it for anything other than a few old games) and give away the XP CD to someone who would actually use it. I hadn't tweaked my Linux install too much, so I was planning on reinstalling after restoring Windows. As I read the documentation for parted I noticed that there was a rescue command, so I booted to parted, printed the partition table and copied it down. I then restored windows, resized the C: drive back to the size I had it at before and then rescued my Linux partition. I mounted the Linux partition, and ran 'chroot /mnt/linux lilo' and I was good to go.
I don't know if this will still work with the newer recovery DVDs, but I don't see why it wouldn't.
I recently got an NEC Versa from my insurance company to replace a stolen laptop after we got burgled. /mnt/win_d instead of /mnt/win_c because I thought d: would be the data partition and c: would be the boot/program partition - wrong! /home to CDR and try re-installing as dual boot, but the NEC restore CD did not give me the option to give less space to XP with fdisk, so I let it run its course and restore to factory settings. Unfortunately it refused to boot so now I'm back to Mdk only.
It came with XP. I wanted to run Mdk 9.1 so I thought I'd go for a dual boot.
In the process of installing Mdk I accidently nuked the wrong wrong windows partition (I nuked
Later, I decided to burn
The only thing I needed windows for was the Intel 537 modem chip. I d/l'ed a driver for 536 which I'm going to try though.
At least I can plug the laptop into my desktop via cat 5 x-over cable and share the net that way. Mdk detected the lappie's eth0 without any problems.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Microsoft has been doing this ever since they started barring OEM's from providing full versions of the OS on the CD's supplied with a new computer.
To reinstall the OS now, the entire hard drive must be wiped, returning it to the exact state it was when it left the factory. This is a very shrewd anti-Linux move by MS. They have effectively made it impossible for people to repartition and reinstall Windows in a way that coexists with Linux, or any other OS for that matter.
The thing to do is to make Linux install itself using the existing Windows filesystems already on the disk! The distribution Phat Linux is designed for just this, I have heard.
http://www.phatlinux.com/
It installs to an existing FAT32 or NTFS partition, and Linux is represented as a directory on a Windows drive! This is a good way to let people try out Linux without risking their Windows installation.
What would be wonderful is a distribution that is standalone on a CD like Knoppix, and if the user likes what they see on the CD, they can also choose to install it to their hard drive in a Windows-safe way like Phat Linux. It will be great when we see a distribution like this, and it will really reduce people's fear of having Linux run on their computer. When they lose their fear of Linux, and are ready to take full advantage of it, they will then be ready to run it completely from its own partition.
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
You can install it in English by using the boot command: knoppix lang=us I went through the same problem only to find out about this afterwards too!
Because the copy that comes with the machine is pre-activated, and the one that you install from a friend is not. So, you have to call M$ up to "reactivate"... at which point they might know that your PC was shipped with a disc that had a pre-activated version, etc.
I don't think it'll turn out quite as easy as reading the number off the sticker on the bottom of the machine to a M$ rep, and getting the activation code in return.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Toshiba's Windows CD's contain a symantec ghost .gho file which contains an image of a preconfigured windows installation, they use a cut down bootable version of ghost to re-image the disk.
If you want to dual boot, then you can purchase a copy of Ghost, create a boot floppy (or CD) with CD drivers and use it to copy the ghost image from the Toshiba supplied CD to a partition instead of using the CD's default of having the image span to fill the whole disk. Not really rocket science and it saves you having to pay M$ for another copy of windows.
If Toshiba weren't so crap in the first place, they could have included this functionality on the CD, probably at no cost.
To Toshiba's credit though... it is alot quicker to image a copy of windows to the disk than it is to install it (~8 minutes), and that includes all the drivers and any additional software (e.g DVD player) that Toshiba bundled with the machine.
I work doing help desk stuff supporting lots of OEMs. This practice is the norm. Packard Bell have a hidden partition, activated usign the switcher command, but if a virus or something has messed it up you fork out £20-£30 on Master CDs. Advents come with a CD which you can order for £5 from www.dsgrecovery.com. HP machines again recover from the hard drive, if you order the quick recovery CDs and run them, they recreate the recovery partitions. eMachines literally use Symantecs Ghost to recover the computer. Medion computers do come with a WinXP cd but 99% of the time the customer should use the application and support CD to recover the computer. Compaq use a recovery partion, and if the partitions need recreating the use a Softpaq floppy disk which automatically creates the partitions the compaq way, manually doing anything with these floppies is difficult at best. And yes, there are other OEMs we support ... including Toshibas.
... well, we do, SP1 did correct several of these, but there are still reasons to, want some examples, well unmountable boot volume, ISSASS.exe error on startup, unmountable boot volume, missing NTLDIR ...
... guess how we do that, that's right, we get the customer to reinstall ... it's the only way to be sure!
... drivers already in place, and a fair few of the apps the customers want already installed.
I saw a comment earlier saying this is Windows XP and we don't reinstall
and on telephone support we need to be certain that the problem is a hardware one before we send an engineer out
How many linux instalations would survive these recovery processes I'm very uncertain about, but I suspect they would not. on the positive side, they do make setting up the computer a breeze
Is this a bit of a non story, kind of, it's been the case for years, but I guess for people who don't touch OEM computers it can be an eye opener.
Sorry about posting AC, but with my job, it seems prudent.
It's not supposed to work. That CD key is for an OEM install, while the CD you have is most likely a retail CD. You need to either (1) score an OEM WinXP CD (some places will sell OEM software with some cheap hardware (like an old 486 or Pentium, or even an IDE cable) thrown in to make it a qualified purchase) or (2) use the WinXP keygen (it's out there) to create a CD key that works with a retail CD (or a corporate CD or whatever you have).
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.