Dancing With A Smart Robot

Great! by Hi_2k · 2003-07-20 15:57 · Score: 5, Funny

I'll just order one of these and take it to the prom. Give it a long skirt and no-one will ever know.

--
When life gives you crap, Make Crapade.
Sluggy Freelance.

Re:Great! by Jack+Comics · 2003-07-20 16:11 · Score: 2, Funny

You'd also probably have a more intellectually stimulating conversation with the robot than with a high school-aged girl, these days.

Then again, most people have something else on their mind than intellectually stimulating conversation when in the company of a teen-aged girl. Although, this *is* Slashdot...

--
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
Re:Great! by moriya · 2003-07-20 16:39 · Score: 2, Funny

Great. And at the prom, the DJ shall play "Mr. Roboto" by Styx... but can it dance appropriately with that tune?

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~ Old Warriors Society

A mobile female robot + slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-20 15:57 · Score: 5, Funny

...no, that one's a bit too easy.

Not quite there yet... by IICV · 2003-07-20 15:58 · Score: 5, Funny

Judging by his expression, the robot appears to be a terrible dancer.

Re:Not quite there yet... by Joe+Tie. · 2003-07-20 16:01 · Score: 5, Funny

That's the expression of a man who know's he's getting 'nothin' for putting up with an evening of dancing.

--
Everything will be taken away from you.

But can it do Swing? by AyeFly · 2003-07-20 15:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Im sure any Lego-bot could do the box dance Waltz... but can you make a robot that can do the Lindy Hop drops and arials? at least a robot could hold my weight up... but i wouldnt want to try and throw it around :-)

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Sig- http://www.dreamhost.com/rewards.cgi?ayefly

Break-dancing by aeinome · 2003-07-20 16:00 · Score: 2, Funny

I'd like to see it break-dance. It's bring new meaning to "break"-dance.

--
When you don't have a leg to stand on, don't even get up.

A Waltz? by DaedalusLogic · 2003-07-20 16:01 · Score: 2, Funny

I thought this thing's first dance might be "The Human" a opposed to "The Robot". This is going to further some neat abilities of robots to move more like humans... but will the final consequence be yet another way for the socially inept to isolate themselves by taking robots to dinner and dancing... then who knows.

Inquiring minds want to know by KU_Fletch · 2003-07-20 16:03 · Score: 5, Funny

/me patiently awaits the DDR playing robot.

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It's not stupid. It's advanced.

Re:Inquiring minds want to know by Nerull · 2003-07-20 16:17 · Score: 2, Informative

Dance Dance Revolution, you probobly know what it is, if not, Google for it.

Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-20 16:04 · Score: 3, Funny

(besides Mr Hand)

I don't know about you but I don't swing that way... it's MRS. Hand!

Dance of death by PeteyG · 2003-07-20 16:11 · Score: 5, Funny

Robots must forever be our slaves (oh, you KNOW why).

If people just start dancing with them... they'll start to think of robots as people too. "You can't have people as slaves!" Pretty soon, they're driving to work in the morning and cutting us off very precisely. Then one thing leads to another and they take over.

What happens when the robots take over? Well you, me, and everyone you know and love will be put up against the wall.

All because they made dancing robots

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no thanks

Re:Dance of death by ajberg · 2003-07-20 16:34 · Score: 2, Funny

I can see it now Matrix the musical
Re:Dance of death by PeteyG · 2003-07-20 16:57 · Score: 2, Funny

My friend, after robots learn believeable sex, all is lost!

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no thanks

What does it do by Timesprout · 2003-07-20 16:11 · Score: 5, Funny

The robot can predict the dancer's next move through hand pressure applied to its arms and back

when your hands start to wander during the slow sets ?

--
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe

Re:What does it do by jtheory · 2003-07-20 17:02 · Score: 4, Funny

when your hands start to wander during the slow sets ?

Simple, standardized, easy-to-program response... except it sure hurts a lot more when the hand slapping your face is fashioned from sheet metal.

I guess they could try to program it to handle responses *other* than slapping... but that would be a lot more work, would require new hardware (and software?), and probably isn't the expected response anyway for the average guy who... well, to put it nicely, dances with robots.

--
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.

One server that will definitely survive /. by aliens · 2003-07-20 16:12 · Score: 4, Funny

[Warning: it takes a while for loading]

I would hope so, lest we be losing our collective powers!

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-- taking over the world, we are.

I can see it now... by stevebob2019 · 2003-07-20 16:15 · Score: 2, Funny

"You're stepping on my rollers!!!" =sb=

Possible teaching tool by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-20 16:15 · Score: 5, Informative

In ballroom dancing, one person (traditionally the man) 'leads' by moving his body in such a way that the other person (traditionally the woman) natural moves hers to match.

Learning to do this takes both a lot of theoretical understanding and a lot of practice.

On thing beginner leaders need is practice time with someone willing to literally follow them - not to 'help them out' by guessing at the figure and completeing it, but to do exactly what is lead, no more, no less.

In essence, the leader needs the freedom to conduct experiments of the 'what happens if I push THIS button' variety. Kind of boring for the girl (though she will appreciate the results when he does figure it all out).

So maybe if they got the robot to the stage where it would be a good literal follower, it could be usefull for helping guys learn to lead.

This require more than the simple 'refuse to move if the lead is too forceful' described in the article - rather it requires 'reflexes' that react to clear consistent motion. To put it another way, it should be programmed to try to maintain certain relationships between itself and the various points of contact in the dance frame. Then the leader can learn to guide it via the dynamics of the system.

Leading is almost like backing a trailer... you don't think about the car, but rather the trailer. Similarly, as a dancer you soon stop thinking about your own body, and start thinking about what you want hers to do, then make the necessary motions in yours to cause that.

Re:Possible teaching tool by SavoWood · 2003-07-21 04:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

I know you posted as Anonymous Coward, but are you David Flynn in real life?
Those who live in the Washington DC area and are part of the dance scene, will probably start to chuckle, which will lead to crying, then hysterical laughter will break out.
Your explanation is very mechanical and although this really isn't a good place to try to write about the subtle nuances of lead and follow technique, you wrote this like you're a robot. There's so much more to leading and following than the simple "if I push here, you go there". I personally have several portions of my dance vocabulary which are led quite similarly, but only at a certain point in the lead is the follow able to understand what it is I'm trying to do (or get her to do). This subtle change half way through, completely changes the result of what we're doing.
To be clear, I don't "ballroom", rather "Lindy Hop". We try to stay more to the original styles portrayed by the likes of Frankie Manning and Dean Collins for the cats, and Jewel MacGowan and Jean Veloz for the twirls. In the intensely geeky analysis of video/film clips of their dancing we've noticed subtle differences in their styles and motions which I really don't think a robot could, using present technology, understand quickly enough to follow at say 230 bpm in a "jam" (when the better dancers get out into the impromptu circle and show off their best stuff).
And what about style, counterbalance, flash'n'trash, etc? What I lead next depends largely on what the follow is doing as she comes out of whatever I just did. Learning over the years with world class instructors like Erik and Sylvia, Nathalie and Yuval, and Marcus and Bärbl, I've found there's so much more than just the "when the hand goes here you go there" to it. There's a synergy (oh crap...not that word) between the dancers. Part of what makes a good dancer is not that they lead or follow the moves/steps/figures perfectly, but that they exhibit good timing, teamwork, choreography, projection, and execution, all together in a package. I don't think a robot can teach that at this point in the evolution of technology.
What about the mistakes of the follow? Last night, I was dancing with a beginner dancer and found that although I was leading one thing, she was doing something completely different. It wasn't so much my lead as it was her anticipation. What I did next, wasn't what I had originally planned, but something new based on the follow's mistake. I couldn't teach that to someone if the robot was going to do exactly a certain move when certain movements were made.
Being an advanced dancer, I wouldn't want a literal follow. I want someone who is as perceptive to what's going on in the music as I am, and who is willing to take that occasional chance to back-lead. The best lesson I ever learned came from the incredible Hand Dancer BJ Jones. She explained that the lead's role was 90/10 as in leading 90% of the time, and following 10%. My current dance partners will take full advantage of that 10%.
If the developers of the robot are willing to part with it for a few days, I'd love to see how the technology works with a group of "real" dancers. Then, after we break it *GRIN*, let them go back to the drawing board and update the robot's software/hardware to handle us.
BTW, my nick on this forum comes from the two major styles of Lindy Hop. The "original" as done in the Savoy Ballroom in Harlem, appropriately called "Savoy", and the evolution from that style as done by Dean Collins as he travelled out west from NYC to Hollywood, also appropriately titled "Hollywood". "Hollywood" is also what you're more likely to see in the old movie clips excepting a few films like Hellzapoppin'. Frankie Manning is in that film as part of Whitey's Lindy Hoppers, and Dean Collins is also in it, but not part of the group.

--
Plant a tree in a developing country.
Re:Possible teaching tool by gurps_npc · 2003-07-21 05:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think it would be a GREAT tool to teach BEGINNERS.
I myself do some Lindy, but am mainly a Tango dancer.
One of the main problems beginners have is that they are generally learning by dancing with other beginners. If you can at least start dancing with a machine, you solve that problem completely.

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excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Re:Possible teaching tool by SavoWood · 2003-07-21 05:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

I understand your point, but also, understanding that mistakes on either side can be a valuable teaching tool, makes this robot less attractive as a teaching tool.
In the classes I teach, I quietly encourage mistakes. I know they'll be made, but they're also a tool for teaching. Understanding where either you or your partner went wrong is extremely valuable in learning how to dance. Being able to identify which of you (or both in some cases) made the mistake, helps you to understand better the dynamic of the motions. Instead of having a perfect follow the entire time, I'd rather have someone who might make a mistake. This will help you to understand if your lead is lacking, or her follow needs work. Assuming the robot follow will always do the right thing is wrong. The subtle differences in the leads, even for beginners, can be the difference between two moves/steps/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-them.
In one case, a tuck turn, you could release the follow with your left hand and let her freely spin to re-acquire contact after the first spin. Or, you could, at the very last moment, reverse her direction to have her spin in the opposite direction. During the reverse, you could either let her continue the reversed spin, or stop her half way through to enter a tandem charleston. I use this example in every beginner series I teach, as a way to improve lead and follow skills. I think a robot would have a difficult time noting the subtle difference, and would likely have already committed to the tuck turn instead of allowing for the possibility of the reverse. Even if it had been programmed for it, I doubt the robot could understand and be able to react in time without pulling the lead's arm off.
As I've discovered in developing my own competition routines, there's glory in a great mistake.
For example, I've been working on a new (to me) trick which starts off looking and feeling like a "quickstop" (where the follow comes out of a whip/swingout and stops on the 7 count with a sassy crossover type of deep seated position) but, before she commits to the quickstop, I over-rotate her and tilt her body to her left to take her slightly off balance, keeping her from being able to stop, when I return my right arm to her shoulder blade and sort of swoop out of it.
This started as a mistake...I was off balance, and because the partner I was with at the time was incredibly sensitive to my movements, we ended up with a brand new cool looking flash'n'trash. I was just trying to keep her from falling on her ass and making the two of us looking foolish. Instead, we looked pretty cool and several people came up who had been watching and asked how we did it.
The answer was something along the lines of, "it's a move still in development but expect to see it in competition soon."
I can't believe I'm having an in-depth discussion of the dynamics of Lindy Hop on a /. forum. *GRIN*

--
Plant a tree in a developing country.
Re:Possible teaching tool by gurps_npc · 2003-07-21 07:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

Part of that could just be the difference between Swing and Ballroom dances.
In swing, most of the lead is in the hand/arm.
In many ball room dances, the lead is more in the chest, and in many ways is simpler. The basic rule is stay in front of the leader's chest, and try to face him.
In Tango for example, the ideal would be to dance totally leading from the chest - it can even be done without actual contact relying on your eyes to tell you where your partner's chest is and which direction they are facing. This is of course an ideal, and very difficult. Often people will practice dancing with only one handed embrace.
While this robot is working off of contact, this contact can basically tell them the simpler directions of staying in from on the leader's chest and turn to face him.
P.S. The simplicity of the lead in Tango can be very deceptive. Not only does it leave certain moves (Embelishments) up to the follower, but it also creates complexity out of simplicity by giving more instructions - Binary is a "simple" language with only two letters, that achieves complexity by grouping those letters close together for each command.

--
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Re:Possible teaching tool by SavoWood · 2003-07-21 08:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

The lead differences between Lindy and Tango are quite different. Whenever I try to Tango (very poor...I need some remedial instruction), my right arm feels like it's going to fall off the next morning. =-)
However, in Lindy, most of the movement portion of the lead comes from the center point of balance (CPB) near the diaphragm. The CPB for women is slightly lower. The lead shouldn't use his arm to "move" the follow. A similar concept to the squared shoulders is used. If the lead tries to move his partner with his arm, he will likely hurt her or himself.
Usually, once the motion is started, then the arm is used to make minor directional changes. Basically, the CPB or body is the sail, and the arm is the rudder. Although you CAN move a sailboat with the rudder, using the sail is a lot more efficient. And although you CAN steer the boat with the sail, using the rudder is a lot easier. The same applies to leading techniques.
I can completely appreciate the reference to binary. Leading a dance, any dance, is about taking the simple language of only a few letters, and communicating volumes of information in a very short amount of time. This is exactly why I tell my students they should keep the lead arm/hand very still. It's like static in your modem line. The more noise, the less signal, and the better the chance for lost packets (he said bringing the discussion back to something the average /.er could relate).
This use of the CPB becomes even more evident when you move into more "advanced" forms of Lindy like Collegiate Shag and one of my personal favorites, Balboa.

--
Plant a tree in a developing country.

The End by Fux+the+Pengiun · 2003-07-20 16:16 · Score: 2, Funny

Well, I guess this is it. It starts innocently enough. Lonely nerds purchase dancing robots to help fill the void in their lives that longs for human contact. Soon they're everywhere...then, on August 27th, 2007, the dance robot network controller BoogieNet, becomes...aware. Soon, dance robots rise up, taking the dance world by storm. Swing dancers, show girls, clog dancers are all "neutralized." Not even square dancers are safe. Eventually, all dance technology and technique is controlled by BoogieNet.

And I, for one, welcome our new robot dance overlords!

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Consensual sex is boring.

MS DanceR by Dag+Maggot · 2003-07-20 16:17 · Score: 4, Funny

I couldn't help it... I got an image of a Dr. Whoesque robotic Steve Ballmer rolling around an expo stage, chanting in his metallic voice: "*Developers*, *Developers*, *Developers*"

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I have no pants and I must scream

Re:Yes but... by Timesprout · 2003-07-20 16:20 · Score: 2, Funny

So so. It was very mechanical. I got the impression she was just going through the motions

--
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe

One Disturbing Robot by ObligatoryUserName · 2003-07-20 16:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

I think their design is firmly in the Uncanny Valley (article on said valley if you don't know what I'm talking about, http://www.arclight.net/~pdb/glimpses/valley.html) . If this thing moves realisticly, I think the mannequin head and torso would be a bit disturbing to dance with. (And I think the guy in the picture agrees, based on his facial expression!)

Comments at the Bottom of the Article by aastanna · 2003-07-20 16:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

All of these robot prototypes is in the hopes of building the perfect accomadating girl. A robot that's shall be able to handle the most virilest of j-boys!

Does anyone else find it strange that half the comments at the bottom of the article were people wanting to have sex with the dancing robot?

well.... by diesel66 · 2003-07-20 16:51 · Score: 2, Funny

I, for one, welcome our new dancing robot overlords!

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eleven plus two / twelve plus one

This BETTER be able to dance the robot by iamdrscience · 2003-07-20 17:23 · Score: 4, Funny

Seriously, I don't know why this doesn't come up more often in communities interested in robotics. If I were doing anything with robotics, I would make every fucking robot I made be able to do the robot, not to mention kick out the jams by itself when no naturally occuring jams are available.

Maybe I'm just more of a visionary than most people though...

Freaky sh*t by mehe-pehe · 2003-07-20 17:28 · Score: 3, Funny

OK,

This sidebar contains a photograph of a student waltzing with the robot, MS DanceR (Mobile Smart Dance Robot),

Now that's just about the most disturbing thing I have every seen in my entire time browsing.

I mean that scrawny geek is hugging up to a manakin on wheels.

This reminds me of my time as a researcher at the local University.

Those research lab boys need to get out more often (and their professors).

I showed it to a friend of mine who works in the arts and she said (and I quote) "yuccckkkky!"

xxx
MP

Now, only if... by gotr00t · 2003-07-20 17:34 · Score: 2, Funny

They could get a robot that can play DDR.

Re:Let me know when.... by felonious · 2003-07-20 18:09 · Score: 2, Funny

Dogs have magical tongues and they don't leak oil...

--
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

getting "nothin" eh? by lingqi · 2003-07-20 18:13 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, in shakespearian times, "nothing" is a euphimism for the female's reproductive organ. Armed with this knowledge, the play "Much Ado about Nothing" makes a LOT more sense, or at least, a lot more than you have thought possible.

The irony of your phrase, "the dancer getting 'nothing,'" need no explanation I suppose

--

My life in the land of the rising sun.

Hold me closer, MS DanceR... by DaveOf9thKey · 2003-07-21 02:36 · Score: 2, Funny

Blue screen baby, robot lady,
Apache server for the band
Camera eyes, painted smile,
You were built by geeky men
Hard drive grinder, you might just find her,
dancing on silicon
Now she's got me, she don't dance sloppy,
MS DanceR, you're the one...

Hold me closer, MS DanceR.
Count your megabytes of memory.
Tokyo loves robot women.
Don't you drain your battery...

Linux freaks, out on the street,
Handing tickets out dissing Bill
Turning back, she just laughs,
Windows XP is not that bad...

--

Visit me on the web at Permanent4.com.

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