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Novell Buys Ximian

Quite a number of people have been submitting the news that Ximian has been purchased by Novell. All I've found so far is the press release linked to above; more links as they come in. Looks like Nat & Miguel will be remaining around, and Novell's continuing to expand its Open Source commitments. Update: 08/04 17:30 GMT by S : viewstyle writes "According to an interview with Ximian's CTO Miguel de Icaza at Eweek.com, Ximian won't be affected at all by Novell's buyout, and will be shipping a PowerPC version of Mono (preview release in Sept)."

124 of 478 comments (clear)

  1. Ximian has annoucment by SirGeek · · Score: 5, Informative

    They have the announcment on their main page now.

    1. Re:Ximian has annoucment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I nominate the parent for the best first post ever.

    2. Re:Ximian has annoucment by cshark · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, with the tone Novell took in that letter the SCO, this doesn't surprise me at all.

      This kind of strikes me as an odd purchase though.

      Last I checked XAMIAN had two major offerings. The first being their desktop, and the second being mono. Why would Novell (primarily a networking company) want either of them?

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    3. Re:Ximian has annoucment by Micro$will · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't know about Mono, but Ximian + Gnome + Linux + ZenWorks = Novell Desktop OS

      It seems to me they're trying to eliminate Windows from the enterprise desktop, as well as the server end.

    4. Re:Ximian has annoucment by Ringlord · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I prefer KDE, a native Groupwise client on Linux would be great. The webclient is quite good, but I will never beat a native client.

    5. Re:Ximian has annoucment by beefness · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This was the first thing I thought of - a Novell Desktop OS!!

      Novell must by now realise that as long as Microsoft is in Control of the desktop, it is always going to find it hard to grow business in the server space.

      This strategy could be the one that really works for them, a Microsoft independent solution, but still with the history of compatibility that will allow their products to work with Windows.

      It would make perfect sense for Novell to build and brand their own desktop OS, it has been the missing piece of the puzzle for many years now.

      Now, along comes GNU/Linux, which already has the main components of a desktop office suite available. I wouldn't be at all suprised if Novell were to offer funding for a project like OpenOffice, or even take on a partnership with Sun for StarOffice (or they could buy CodeWeavers and take on development of Crossover Office).

      Novell and Sun are getting quite close at the moment with the liberty alliance, now Novell is working on Gnome (the new Solaris desktop), I can see the two companies supporting each other in more ways.

      Personally I think this is good for Novell and if Novell can make the right choices it could be very good for the community, I am just going to watch over the next 6 months because I dont think this is the last announcement Novell will make with respect to Linux on the desktop.

    6. Re:Ximian has annoucment by Arker · · Score: 3, Informative

      I understand there is a native client already. Never seen it though. Let me find a link.

      Ah yes, here's the press release. A java client, ok not quite native. An alternative to the web interface though.

      I'd look for evolution to start working with groupwise too though.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  2. There might be a few.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ch-ch-ch-ch-changes at Ximian. You know, right before the newly expanded going out of business yard sale at Novell.

    1. Re:There might be a few.... by Ominous+Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      ch-ch-ch-changes? Is David Bowie working with Novell these days?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une sig.
  3. Aaaah! by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 5, Funny

    I ran "Red Carpet Update" this morning. Now I know why it downloaded a copy of the Book of Mormon to my computer. Thanks, Slashdot!

    --
    Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
  4. I doubt... by Sir+Haxalot · · Score: 2, Informative

    this will have any effect on Ximian though... so I'm not too bothered ;)

    --
    I have over 70 freaks, do you?
  5. Good News! by nbarr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hopefully, this will improve the development of the desktop Linux. Maybe we will see big improvements in this area, as Novell improves Gnome, causing KDE to also improve so that they dont lag behind.

    Also, Mono will probably get major improvements, becoming a good .net alternative.

    As far as I'm concerned, good news.

    --
    Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
    1. Re:Good News! by danheskett · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hopefully, this will improve the development of the desktop Linux.
      That makes no sense. Novell has exactly ZERO experience with making desktop operating systems.

      Additionally, they have VIRTUALLY ZERO experience with development windowing systems and GUI interfaces.

      Also, Mono will probably get major improvements, becoming a good .net alternative.
      Again, ZERO sense. Xiamian has tons more experience with .NET - why would adding Novell to mix help Novell?

      Novell - all those years of nasty unbelievable licensing costs and certifications must have left them with a warchest of huge proportions.

    2. Re:Good News! by nbarr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I understand your comments, but the reason I believe it will help Mono and gnome, is not because of Novell experience, but simply because Novell has more funds to invest in full time programmers for those projects. That will make the development faster, if not better.

      --
      Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
    3. Re:Good News! by IM6100 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, but Novell does have experience buying, then passing along, dying technologies. They bought the UNIX codebase, which they then passed along. They bought WordPerfect too.

      The problem is, Ximian isn't a dying technology. This doesn't fit the pattern for Novell...

      --
      A Good Intro to NetBS
    4. Re:Good News! by div_2n · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, since the most major improvements to Windows in the last 8 years (Active Directory) has been available in some form or fashion in Novell for over 15 years I would say that their strength may well lie in merging that kind of functionality into Linux. I only hope they keep their development OSS. That is the only real problem I see.

      It really won't matter one bit if they start running Ximian offerings into the ground. If they are OSS, the community can take over. I thought that was the whole benefit to OSS in the first place. Don't like what the author is doing or the author gets hit by a bus (or acquisition)? DIY.

    5. Re:Good News! by operagost · · Score: 5, Funny

      Patience... just give them a little time to kill it.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    6. Re:Good News! by axxackall · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Novell has exactly ZERO experience with making desktop operating systems.

      they have VIRTUALLY ZERO experience with development windowing systems and GUI interfaces.

      Quite disagree. Novell has a VERY NEGATIVE experience with developing UI:

      1. the UI for NetWare was the worst case in the whole industry. Desktop or no desktop, but the OS must have UI. Cisco router has a better UI! It's also not a GUI, but at least it's something understandable.
      2. Novell has bought WordPerfect at the moment it was really perfect (even and especially comparing to MS Word) and killed it.
      --

      Less is more !
    7. Re:Good News! by binner1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, but please let there be a GroupWise plugin for Evolution. I was actually thinking about this the other day, while thinking about the whole Novell services on Linux OS strategy. To be honest, I think this could be really fantastic!

      That, and I'm stuck in a Novell shop with Windows on the desktop right now with no great alternatives. Give me a GW alternative, and the rest is a piece of cake.

      -Ben

    8. Re:Good News! by Hecubas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Um, have you actually used Novell or are you just trolling?

      Yes, the Netware server doesn't have a fantastic GUI, but then just like Unix or Linux, having a character based console is preferred by many sysadmins. It's fast and simple--no wasted memory on a GUI there.

      I'm thinking Novell knows a little bit about GUI apps since they've built a very important one. The ConsoleOne GUI for managing eDirectory is an interesting program, you can extend its capabilities with snapins. Maybe not the best GUI but it gets the job done. Adding the Gnome developer will only help Novell in the long run.

      Novell also has a great interest in the desktop since one of their hottest bits of software, Zenworks, is all about managing desktop PC's. If you've ever had to manage 50 or more desktops, you'll realize how handy all the Zenworks tools are. If I'm not mistaken, you'll be seeing those tools on Linux soon.

      As for .Net, it seems to make perfect sense that Novell would like .Net running on their platforms if they want to play the "embrace and extend" game that Microsoft is so good at. Give the developers no reason to avoid Novell.

      As for the licensing, I would argue that the value you get in Novell's products is well worth the cost. I have yet to see any thing else that can do a better job at managing a network for an enterprise for Novell's price.

      One last thing, Novell has certainly been good with supporting Open Source projects. Very cool, unlike the alternative that is trying to squash the GPL.

      If I had my mod points today, you sir would have not been given insightful.

      --
      Hecubas
    9. Re:Good News! by 4of12 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another shameful artifact of a distorted marketplace, unfortunately.

      I remember when NDS came out to good technical reviews earlier than Active Directory.

      Despite all the good press about a good product, most IT managers took the cautious approach, figuring, rightly, that Microsoft would make its directory services offering "integrated" with Windows.

      Yep, "integrated', the same way that Brer Rabbit got "integrated" with the Tar Baby.

      The same way that IE got "integrated" with Windows.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  6. I wonder... by avalys · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder if this will affect Novell's behavior towards SCO - if they didn't already have an interest in defending Linux, they certainly will now. Considering that they claim to possess the copyrights that SCO is using to bully IBM, I think this may prove to be a Good Thing.

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    This space intentionally left blank.
    1. Re:I wonder... by Frodo420024 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Considering that they claim to possess the copyrights that SCO is using to bully IBM, I think this may prove to be a Good Thing.

      Novell acknowledge that the copyrights have been transferred to SCO (*sigh*).

      Still, this looks like a Good Thing for the Novell product lineup, as well as for Open Source in general.

      --
      I'm in a Unix state of mind.
    2. Re:I wonder... by lovebyte · · Score: 2, Troll

      SCO, Novell and Canopy group, all have (at least) one person in common: Ray Noorda

      He is/has been:
      founder of Caldera
      Chairman of Novell
      Founder of Canopy group

      Moreover, the mormon Church is involved somewhere there too (3 in SCO's board are mormon). What does that mean? I have no idea.

      --

      I'll do it for cheesy poofs.

    3. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ok, first: what does the mormon involvement mean? That they are all based on Utah, and mormons are common there.

      With that out of the way:

      Ray Noorda was founder of Novell, but not founder of Caldera (he just paid for it through Canopy)

    4. Re:I wonder... by IM6100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or, this could be Novell buying into a big piece of the 'Open Source' goodies so that after the Linux carcass is broken up into chunks they own a valuable piece.

      --
      A Good Intro to NetBS
  7. It's all over for Ximian by jmischel · · Score: 4, Flamebait

    Let's recap some of Novell's previous purchases:

    Wordperfect - barely breathing
    Quattro Pro - dead
    Paradox - dead
    DR-DOS - dead?

    Novell, a company whose mission for the past 15 years seems to have been "Buy Microsoft's competition and run it into the ground" has purchased one of the few Linux desktops that could potentially give Microsoft a run for its money.

    Might as well cede the desktop to Microsoft.

    1. Re:It's all over for Ximian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Novell is actually a puppet corporation that was secretly taken over by Microsoft over 10 years ago. They only exist to give the illusion that Microsoft has competition in critical areas like spreadsheets and non-multitasking operating systems.

      Novell: Utah's answer to Corel.

    2. Re:It's all over for Ximian by Ominous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think perhaps Novell has a tendency to make poor choices in its purchases?

      I'm not sure about the rest, but there's little Novell could have done to help DR-DOS. Microsoft broke many laws to keep MS-DOS on top back then.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une sig.
    3. Re:It's all over for Ximian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh please. The parent should be moderated Flaimbait. The thing different from all those other companies is that Gnome is not Ximian. 99% of Ximian's technology is Open Source so Novell dieing out would not affect this. Besides they have been predicting the death of Novell for years now, just like Unix. Novell has a good stratigy behind it. Since its services are top notch and run under Linux they can sell both directly or say to IBM customers. My whole city still runs on Novel. Well instead of migrating to Windows they can now migrate to Novell running Linux. I wish this solution was out when I was doing an internship in London. The solisitors I was working for was using Novell I had to recommend a company that was switching them to NT. They wanted to stick with Novell but all the support was dropping for it. Now this comes out, coupled with the growing number of firs supporting Linux and Novell has new life. It is still a gamble for them but one I beleive will pay off.

    4. Re:It's all over for Ximian by Menthos · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Novell [...] has purchased one of the few Linux desktops

      Novell acquired Ximian, not GNOME. Ximian is not GNOME, they're only one of the companies behind it. Other significant companies behind GNOME include Sun and Red Hat who also contribute loads of resources, and also many additional sponsors like HP, Mandrake, and IBM. Not to mention the huge amount of independant volunteers, that made the project even possible to begin with.

      So there seems to be a huge difference with GNOME compared to the examples you mentioned -- this one will undoubtly survive even without Novell, should they decide to leave it for some reason.

      --

      GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.

    5. Re:It's all over for Ximian by buysse · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Well, DR-DOS was basically dead by the time Novell bought it. I think they decided to buy it a) because it let them sue Microsoft, and b) because Netware uses DOS as a boot-loader.

      WordPerfect, Quattro Pro, and Paradox are a different story. Novell never owned Paradox (and I don't they owned Quattro) -- that was a Borland product that was licensed and bundled as part of PerfectOffice -- Novell's competition to Microsoft Office. Novell also had a thin-client/kill-Microsoft strategy at about the same time... this eventually became Caldera OpenLinux.

      The real story is the Ray Noorda wanted to be the David to Microsoft's Goliath. After the disasterous acquisition of WordPerfect (and one of the many near-deaths of Novell), Noorda was ejected from the company and started Caldera. Novell became much more sane after that point.

      So, don't count out Novell because of WP -- that was a different company than now. They could be getting the megalomaniacal urge to kill Microsoft again, but all the code in this case is GPL'd. Improvements made by Novell in this fools errand will be given to the community and will continue after Novell is gone... or maybe, just maybe, it'll work. (But I'd be selling my Novell stock, if you know what I'm saying.)

      --
      -30-
    6. Re:It's all over for Ximian by bhima · · Score: 2, Informative

      DR-DOS is NOT dead, it's just not main stream. I use it! Also Novell doesn't own it anymore Devicelogics does. Cheers!

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    7. Re:It's all over for Ximian by FatherOfONe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Novell had another huge issue at the time. The had two different development camps. One wanted to move to TCP/IP and off the NetWare kernel, the other (Corporate) wanted to stay with NetWare. Corporate had most of the power at the time. So Novell at the time was sending out two different messages. Ray Noorda seemed to want to take the company to a Unix kernel for the server specifically Unixware. He also had a MAJOR battle going on with Microsoft at the time and probably focused too much attention to battling them as you mentioned above. However, if he would have stuck with his plan, NetWare would have probably have been migrated over to UnixWare AND most of todays apps for Linux would probably run just fine on it. In the worst case, it would be a heck of a lot easier to migrate from UnixWare to Linux than from NetWare to Linux. So Novell would have been in a much better position today than it is now....

      I have been asking Novell to become another Linux distro for a long time now, and it appears that they are going to do that with NetWare 7. I look at it this way, I could get the following:
      NDS management
      GroupWise Email and Scheduling
      Linux Apps
      DirXML (Manage different directories)
      Support
      Linux Kernel and various apps

      Hopefully I would get all that at a price competitive to RedHat Enterprice Server. Now it appears that they want to make their money with a per seat licence, so I hope that they start out with something like 1,000 seats for a LOW amount i.e. $800 per server. Personally I hope that they drop the per seat thing and go to some per processor licence. Either way Novell seems to mess up their licencing, so it will probably suck! They had better realize that they don't have many more chances left...

      Lastly, I believe that this purchase will only be good for Ximian. I can see Novell putting effort in to hooking in their admin tools, and nothing more. Their technical guys seem to get it now and they seem a lot more focused on what their customers want.

      --
      The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
    8. Re:It's all over for Ximian by AJWM · · Score: 2, Funny

      Novell: Utah's answer to Corel.

      Hmmm... Nov-El, Cor-El. Can we deduce, then, that Kryptonians* are lousy at running software companies?

      (* Best known Kryptonian: Kal-El)

      --
      -- Alastair
    9. Re:It's all over for Ximian by buysse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The key is that they bought it around the release of Win95. It wasn't that DR-DOS was dead, specifically, it was that DOS was dead as a whole. IIRC, IMHO, HTH, HAND.

      --
      -30-
    10. Re:It's all over for Ximian by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 2, Informative

      Novell isn't unusual in government offices. Not sure why you are suprised by that, since you once worked for one. Novell fit their needs a decade ago, and governments are slow to change to new technologies.

      I live in the SF Bay Area (Unix central), and most of the city & county governments still run Novell at some level. I've spoken to a number of IT managers at bigger cities throughout the US in the last year, and they all talked about their Novell network.

      It certainly is a problem trying to get it working, especially when trying to get it working alongside an hybrid NT/Un*x network. But moving to a different architecture can also be a big problem.

      Cities are often several

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    11. Re:It's all over for Ximian by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      purchased one of the few Linux desktops that could potentially give Microsoft a run for its money.

      I really like the Ximian Desktop. It's just want Linux needs to get into enterprise environments.

      However, Ximian is a pretty small company, and on their own I doubt that they could give anyone a run for their money. Left on their own, Ximian probably would have gone out of business soon.

      If the founders of Ximian were confident about the future of their company, they wouldn't have sold it to Novell.

      In the last year, it seemed as through Ximian was paring down their offerings in order to focus on a few key markets: Ximian stopped shipping it's desktop for Solaris workstations, and HPUX dropped their contract with Ximian. RH started shipping a decent desktop with Gnome2.2. Ximian dropped support for Debian. Sounds a little desperate.

      Novell is a bigger company. The Linux Desktop requires an investment that may not pay off for a while. Novell can take a bigger short term loss then Ximian could.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  8. I was going to comment, but by His+name+cannot+be+s · · Score: 2

    *HUH*???

    That's the damn strangest acquisition I've ever heard of.

    Hell, Novell's purchase of WordPerfect seems to make sense under this veil.

    Weird, weird, weird...

    --
    "...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
    1. Re:I was going to comment, but by MowserX · · Score: 2, Informative

      In case you missed it, Novell has been going OpenSource crazy the past year, and is actively embracing Apache and Linux.

      NetWare 7.0 will actually be the core NetWare services, but abstracted in such a way that they will now ru on a Linux kernel OR the base NetWare kernel.

      Novell is even making their techs get certified in Linux.

      So it looks like it makes sense after all.

    2. Re:I was going to comment, but by operagost · · Score: 2, Informative

      People forget that the purchase of WordPerfect included WPOffice, now known as GroupWise. This is the one WordPerfect technology they didn't sell off to Corel. It doesn't get the hype of Exchange and Notes, but frankly it's more versatile than Outlook and a lot easier to use than Notes. As far as administration, well, it's fine until you have to restore someone's mailbox!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  9. Money by Xner · · Score: 3, Informative
    The acquisition of Ximian was an all-cash transaction and is not expected to have a material effect on Novell's financial statements in the current fiscal year. No further details as to the specific terms of the transaction are being disclosed.

    Does not sound to me like Miguel will be rolling in cash though ...

    --
    Pathman, Free (as in GPL) 3D Pac Man
    1. Re:Money by Uart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ximian wasn't exactly rolling in cash either. However, just because it won't have a "material effect" doesn't mean that the amount isn't what you and I would consider large. Its just not what Novell would consider large.

      --

      Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
  10. Evolution Exchange Connector by revividus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder what will happen with Ximian's Exchange connector for Evolution? I hope Novell keeps it around, because it's probably my sole hope of getting a boss-approved Linux box at work...

    1. Re:Evolution Exchange Connector by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My bet is this is why they bought Ximian. The Ximian guys have the knowlege to write an Exchange replacement. Add that and there .NET/Mono work and Novell could once again be a major player in the server market. What a product they could have Linux based, with NDS, backward compatable with the old Novell stuff, capable of running .net/mono, and an open source exchange type server. This could be a very good thing. Yes I know that they may not open source the Exchange stuff. I can dream can't I.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Evolution Exchange Connector by AVee · · Score: 5, Informative

      My bet is this is why they bought Ximian. The Ximian guys have the knowlege to write an Exchange replacement.

      Can you spell groupwise?
      Or Exchange replacement?

    3. Re:Evolution Exchange Connector by David+Gerard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Isn't Exchange Connector just a screenscraper for Outlook Web Access?

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
  11. Glad I bought their stock... by bc90021 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am not hawking NOVL, and I do own less than 100 shares (disclosure complete, post commencing) but I'm glad I re-evaluated them. With their recent release of their products for Linux (which seem to be doing reasonably well), and now with this purchase, it seems that they are serious about Linux. Since they were always great in the directory space, it seems like they just might be positioning themselves to try and contend in directory services again.

    1. Re:Glad I bought their stock... by Clansman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually I think not - everyone I know is heading reluctantly but inevitably to Active Directory and is ditching Netware.

      We have NDS *and* AD simply because some/many apps don't speak NDS but integrate directly with AD. So we buy both - NDS cos it's easier to manager and link/sync to AD for app integration.

      Thing is ... what a waste so the next step is simply to bin NDS.

      It's not what we want to do but what is happening none the less.

  12. Good for them by mao+che+minh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I want to see Novell survive. My first two years in the IT business was supporting a huge Netware environment, and I have always liked it (Netware) since. With Novell's planned shipment of Linux products, it would also make sense to build a strong Netware client for Linux. Aqcuiring Ximian and all of it's tools is a good start.

  13. Grumble... by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 3, Redundant

    Usually it's not a good idea to attach a lifeboat to a sinking ship. Novel should be selling off/spinning off divisions that have a chance of surviving, not acquiring more units to pull under.

    1. Re:Grumble... by Kismet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People have been foretelling the doom of Novell for almost a decade. Even during the good economy Novell was the "Sinking Ship."

      Isn't it time to give it up? Novell is still here, and shows no signs of being otherwise in the near future.

  14. This Might Make Novell More Attractive by ChiefGeneralManager · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Novell produce some really nice software -- Netware seems solid, secure and provides a more useful and workable system out of the box than windows.

    My biggest problem with Novell is that to get any of the great benefits that Netware provides, I have to buy a slew of stuff -- like ZenWorks and BorderWare. To get a complete network OS, I have to either shell out, or make some kludges to get things to work together, using olde batch files, for example.

    In all, this means it's better to start of with something that only claims to be the hub of an NOS and build other software on to it -- like SME Server -- and its at no cost.

    In buying Ximian, I hope Novell will be able to offer SMEs a workable, useful, solution that gives everyting a NOS should be capable of for the same price (rather than just the core) so desktop management (over Windows, Linux and Mac), e-mail, and firewalling would all come together at a Microsoft-beating price.

    1. Re:This Might Make Novell More Attractive by Clansman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      THis is dead right - and once you have bought all that othere stuff, your enterprise apps *still* don't integrate with NSD properly so you have to get dirXML and pay for Active Directory too ...

      Just so you can get what, exactly? A file server and a directory.

  15. Sen. Orin Hatch schizo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Two-faced dumb plug Sen. Orin Hatch is now faced with a dilemma. Which constituency will he support -
    Novell & open source, *or* SCO and the forces of evil. Hard choices for such an honorable man.

  16. Re:OK the tacky stuff by rde · · Score: 2, Funny

    What was the amount involved ?

    "The acquisition of Ximian was an all-cash transaction and is not expected to have a material effect on Novell's financial statements in the current fiscal year"

    Linux: it's free as in speech, not free as in Ximian.

  17. Might not be about the desktop war by mao+che+minh · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is different, in that all of the above were doomed to begin with. WordPerfect had a fledging career, but with the monopoly woes and everything else, no one really expected it to survive (no people in IT anyways). Novell wants to use Ximian as a tool (server administration with a decent GUI), I reckon, and not use it to try to create a viable desktop alternative.

    Novell can now skip all of the time needed to build every aspect of some kind of a Linux client/desktop, and instead begin with the progress that Ximian has made.

    Winning the desktop is one thing, but I think Novell wants to use Ximian as an access point to a Linux server running all kinds of Netware "packages" (the Netware services Novell will be deploying for Linux).

    1. Re:Might not be about the desktop war by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personally I think it has more to do with Mono and Novell's attempted transformation into an ecomerce/ebusiness platform. If you can run your .Net middleware on something as stable as a Novell server (yes Novell server beat even Linux for uptime, hell they aproach mainframes, would probably be there too if the hardware was better) then why would you run it on windows =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  18. Tug - O - War by jmkaza · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First there was IBM. But IBM made a deal with a guy named Bill and slowly saw their computer monopoly erode, as this thing called Windows allowed anyone to operate any PC. But then it was decided to link computers together, and up came a new software company, Novell, and now someone other than Bill was making money off of software, and Bill didn't like that, so out came Windows NT, and Novell saw their brief monopoly collapse. IBM and Novell weren't happy, so IBM hooked up with another guy, named Linus, and slowly started taking back what Microsoft had taken away, in the datacenter, at least. So here's Novell, looking at IBM and realizing hey, it brought them back, it can bring us back too. And now the community has a big player putting Linux on the corporate desktop. Right on, Novell. Best of luck to ya.

  19. Mixed Feelings by Silwenae · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm of mixed feelings on this.

    I am of the belief that Novell bought Ximian more for Ximian Connector than anything else, Mono second, and oh yeah, Ximian Desktop / Gnome Development is thrown in.

    I have a hard time believing Novell has a vested interest in a Linux desktop like Gnome. Out of the three software apps Ximian works with, Gnome is the only one that isn't so much a cross-platform application (Gnome development for Sun / *BSD aside).

    It's probably good for Mono as well. But does Novell have the cash to continue development of all these?

    I just hope Novell doesn't let them die on the vine.

    1. Re:Mixed Feelings by mao+che+minh · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "It's probably good for Mono as well. But does Novell have the cash to continue development of all these?"

      I think the question should rather be "does Novell have any interest and/or strategic advantages in continuing the development of all of them?". I say this because Novell certainly has more revenue and excess funds then Ximian did (or at least I hope hope so, it would be rather bleak for Novell if they didn't).

    2. Re:Mixed Feelings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My guess is that Mono interested them as well - Novell would love to take eDirectory (NDS) and make add-on components like ZenWorks truly cross-platform. Imagine having a Linux/Windows/Solaris network, with single sign-on and a unified directory, and being able to deploy apps to any workstation with a few clicks, after installing a .NET runtime (Mono on the *nix hosts). If you've never used Netware in a larger environment, you don't understand. I'm sitting in an academic position right now.. and really, really wish that we could afford to buy NDS licenses and modify our systems to use them.

    3. Re:Mixed Feelings by PolR · · Score: 2, Informative
      But does Novell have the cash to continue development of all these?
      According to their last quaterly report they have $626 million in cash and their loss was $26 million. At this rate they can last a few years before going chapter 11.
    4. Re:Mixed Feelings by aparkrish · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, not just Ximian Connector. Ximian Red Carpet the Linux Software distribution product when integrated with Novell ZENworks will certainly add value to ZENworks Application Distribution for Linux desktops.

  20. At last! by khaine · · Score: 3, Funny

    All that useful software I've always wanted on my Linux desktop! Wonderful software sch as:

    * Groupwise connector for Evolution.
    * Directory Services for Linux.
    * ZenWorks for Gnome

    I can't wait! ;-)

  21. Announcement on novell.com by kermit6306 · · Score: 2, Funny
    "Operating system that can now give you the same buzz it gives IT."

    That's what I'm talkin' about. No more wasted money and trips to the weed spot. I can just pull down the latest patch! Just in case, anyone got Linus' pager number..?

  22. This may make some sense... by RevMike · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Novell is a name recognizable (and respectable) to the PHBs of the world. Sure they got trounced by MS, and their licensing structure may have sucked, but they are still a known name.

    It would be easy for Novell to put together a nice bundle of Linux technologies, then sell it under their own name. The PHBs who don't trust OSS wouldn't have to know any better.

    I'd personally like to see Novell hire the SAMBA team. It would be pretty cool to see them take back the file and print server space from MS using their name on OSS.

    1. Re:This may make some sense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Evidently, the good reverend hasn't heard of Native File Access Protocol. It was released with NetWare v6 almost 2 years ago, and allows a NetWare server to appear as a Windoze (SMB) box to Windoze clients, a Mac (appletalk) server to Mac clients, and a UNIX (NFS) server to UNIX clients.

      Check it out at www.novell.com

  23. Re:Good riddance to good rubbish ;-) by splinky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oooo I dunno. The motivations seem different: AOL's enormous, didn't need Netscape and may just have done it to muck about and maybe squeeze Microsoft for better terms on IE.

    Novell doing this seems more like a company actually trying to find some new revenue from it, because they're not doing so well elsewhere.

    Of course that means it could go one of two ways: they could put their all into it and make it enormous, or they could make a right hash of it and hastily try something else, chucking Ximian to the dogs.

    Not saying much new here but hey :o)

  24. Combining strenghts by GerardM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With Novell being great as a directory company and Ximian great as a desktop company, I would expect to see security and ease of administration for Linux desktops to be the great beneficiary. This could become available as a proprietary solution or as an open source solution. In either the quality and ease of administring Linux application will improve.

    What I am happy with is that Novell first proved itself as a good member of the community before they bought Ximian.

  25. One more involved by ptaff · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Do you realize the sheer number of major companies, one after the other, helping the community in some way or another?

    • Sun: SuSE distribution
    • Novell: Ximian
    • IBM: Kernel
    • Apple: KHTML
    • HP: XFree86


    Are they all wanting the success of GNU/Linux or is it a case of against-Microsoft-anything-will-do?

    These companies, which on certain fields compete against each other, are willing to go in the same direction, isn't it weird? ...can't wait to add Microsoft/SCO to the list - or simply remove them from the other list :)
    1. Re:One more involved by gosand · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Are they all wanting the success of GNU/Linux or is it a case of against-Microsoft-anything-will-do?

      Or maybe they have come to realize that this Open Source thing is pretty cool. Maybe it has nothing to do with making GNU/Linux as an entity succeed, or about sticking it to Microsoft. Maybe it is just quality software into which it is worthwhile to invest a small amount of their time/money.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    2. Re:One more involved by MyHair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These companies, which on certain fields compete against each other, are willing to go in the same direction, isn't it weird?

      It's not weird at all. What these companies have done is embraced a piece of software that can't be forcibly pulled out from under them. For an x86 example, Microsoft has consistently been ulitmately destructive to the more successful vendors that run on it (WP, Lotus 1-2-3, Citrix, Quicken, Netscape, co-dev deal with IBM OS/2, etc.). With open source they simultaneously cut costs, improve their PR image, retain control over the code as used for them and have public code review/debugging/contributions.

  26. Linux business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1) open up company
    2) use free software
    3) make lots of goons work for free
    4) brand free software
    5) sell company
    6) profit !

  27. Re:What an embarassment by greechneb · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have to wonder if Novell is viewing the Gnome desktop as the base for an administrative desktop. Novell's GUI has been seriously lacking from what I have dealt with. With their recent decision to ship netware with a linux kernel, I think they are slowly moving their product lines to be enhanced linux servers.

  28. This is good by johnnyb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Previously, Novell had an excellent product - their directory services. In addition, it would run on more Microsoft operating systems than NT. For example, you could authenticate and use Novell resources from DOS, not so with NT, at least not without a LOT of help. Novell is the product everyone wanted to use, because it made your life easier, it's just that noone wanted to run their operating system.

    Now they have a chance to go in with the operating system that EVERYONE is wanting to run (a lot of people _want_ to run Linux, but are unable to do so because of their Windows machines). Novell is the king of getting their software to play nicely with Windows. I can see Novell going into Linux, and then being able to replace Active Directory with the click of a button.

    And this purchase means that their server will be incredibly easy-to-use.

    1. Re:This is good by bwalling · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Novell is the king of getting their software to play nicely with Windows. I can see Novell going into Linux, and then being able to replace Active Directory with the click of a button.


      You make me laugh. Ever try to migrate NT to NDS or vice versa? What a pain in the ass! NDS for NT was anything but the "click of a button"!

  29. Reference spotted, reference missed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Novell a few years ago used David Bowie's "Changes" in a television advertisement.

  30. How to make money off of free software by MyRuger · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Start a company

    2) Sell it

    Like teaching a new dog old tricks

    1. Re:How to make money off of free software by JerkBoB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Didn't work for Eazel, unfortunately.

      Or a bazillion other companies with stupid business plans... I don't doubt that people put a lot of effort into Nautilus, and it's sorta nice for those few times that I want to look at a directory listing with thumbnails (I know other people use it extensively), but to build a company around it? With some sort of goofy software distribution pipeline hacked into it?

      Whatever.

      --
      A host is a host from coast to coast...
      Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
  31. Re:What an embarassment by MowserX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You people need to get a clue.

    Novell is a great company. Contrary to popular belief, there ARE other options out there besides Micro$oft $olution$ and Linux/BSD.

  32. Re:Expanding thier OPEN SOURCE committment? by mccalli · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "If all Novell will do is 'support GNU/Linux'...then they are not 'supporting Open Source', they are supporting GNU/Linux...Why use the inclusive language of Open Source when you are in fact not inclusive?"

    You're getting ahead of yourself there. Novell's statement is that they'll "continue to expand their Open Source commitment", not that they'll only support Linux. Sun, for one, will be quite interested in having GNOME and associated apps supported under Solaris as they've chosen it for their next UI.

    I'm dubious too, but give some time to see what happens. It's too early to see this is either good or bad - actions speak louder than words, and we would do well to sit back and allow some action to take place before writing people off.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  33. Novell, don't make the same mistake again! by thepacketmaster · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let's just hope they don't turn around and sell Ximian to SCO!

    --

    --

    Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.

  34. What does it mean? by conan_albrecht · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It means that many of the Novell employees are Mormon. That's it. I have many friends who work for Novell, and I can tell you, Novell's historical poor business choices have nothing to do with religion. :)

    Saying that "Mormons are in control of Novell, Canopy, etc. because the companies are in Utah and have Mormon employees, board members, etc." is like saying that the "German government is in charge of United Linux because many of the SUSE employees are Germans."

    1. Re:What does it mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhhhh, guess you've never been to Provo and Novell's Headquarters, across the street from BYU. Heck you've probably never been to Utah, if you think the Mormons don't have a HUGE say in what happens there.

      A HUGE MAJORITY of the company is Mormon, the company was formerly housed on the BYU Campus, many, many employees simply graduated and walked across the street to Novell, and they even used BYU for the Brainshare conferences until they outgrew the facility.

      Having worked for Novell for several years, I can say, without a doubt, there is a tremendous Mormon influence on it's operation.

      Hell, they used to call the Exec's and Board Members the Mormon Mafia.

      But it doesn't really have any bearing on the Xiaman Purchase.

      Novell's fault's lie with it's inablity to Market, not it's Mormon influence. If anything, they could take a lesson from the LDS and learn to get thier message across.

    2. Re:What does it mean? by conan_albrecht · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Um, Mr/Ms. Coward, I have been to Utah. I grew up here. I'm posting this from about 1 mile from the Novell campus. What, exactly, do the Mormons want with Novell? Perhaps, "If we price Netware at $xxxx.xx, we'll convert more people?" :)

      Nice try. I'll agree that Mormon practices may influence Novell a lot. What do you expect when so much of the workforce of a business subscribes to a certain religion or way of life? Perhaps they didn't have coffee breaks since Mormon's don't drink coffee? I'll agree that there is influence there but I have a hard time seeing how the Mormon church is *controlling* Novell.

      I've been to church headquarters many times in SLC. I've met with the Canopy board. I've met with several of the twelve in the Mormon church. I know the Church's CIO personally. I've been extremely happy to see him switch from a pro-Microsoft person to a pro-Unix person in the past few years.

      I can tell you that (currently) the Church offices use Windows more than anything else. I'd love to see them use Linux or Novell or anything but big bad Redmond. In fact, perhaps we should just say that the Mormons are controlling Microsoft since they use Windows 99 percent of the time!?! (oh great, now what did I start...) I use a Mac and Linux at BYU, and I have a hard time because everyone else uses Windows!

      Disclaimer: Yes, I am a card carrying LDS member. Yes, Mormons have a significant influence in the culture and businesses in Utah and elsewhere. That's what happens when 80 percent of Utah Valley are members. No, the Mormon Church is not controlling Novell or Canopy or the dummies at SCO. If they were, Novell wouldn't be in such financial troubles. :)

    3. Re:What does it mean? by Reziac · · Score: 2, Funny

      If the Mormon church was in charge of Novell, there would be Netware missionaries, who would go forth and *give* every IT departent a fully functional, unlimited 3-seat demo copy of the server OS, then charge N-much per additional connection/workstation license.

      Much like those never-ending free copies of the Book of Mormon, and the tithe you'll pay once you sign up. :)

      Actually, I've suggested exactly such a market-penetration scheme to Novell. But those idiots in their marketing dept. think licencing packs can only be sold in lots of 10, 50, or 100. So they miss out on the chance to sell millions of single-seat upgrades.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  35. how much was Ximian worth? by BobTheLawyer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Statements like:

    "The acquisition of Ximian was an all-cash transaction and is not expected to have a material effect on Novell's financial statements"

    imply the amount of money involved was peanuts. Does anybody have figures on this?

    1. Re:how much was Ximian worth? by univgeek · · Score: 5, Informative

      They've got approximately $600M in cash, if you say 5% is "not expected to have a material effect", then it could be up to $30M!!

      --
      All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!
    2. Re:how much was Ximian worth? by st.+augustine · · Score: 4, Informative
      Ximian probably got somewhere between 3M and 5M USD (given other recent software company sales of similar size).
      Unlikely, unless their investors were desperate to get out. According to Ximian's about page, they've received at least US$15M in venture capital funding, probably more. Presumably the investors will be wanting that back.
      --

      -- Some things are to be believed, though not susceptible to rational proof.
    3. Re:how much was Ximian worth? by Hamfist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For it to be non-material, it needs to be less than 1% of what it affects on Novell's balance sheet. Purchases of companies are assets. As of the last quarter, Novell had 1.6 Billion in Assets. Unless they had an incredible quarter causing cash to go through the roof, it would be hard to see more than 16 million as a maximum selling price.

  36. Miguel + Nat by oPless · · Score: 2, Funny


    Congrats on the Novell takeover! :)

  37. Re:What an embarassment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Novell aren't the highest profile company but it is apparent they are misunderstood even here on /.

    They aren't "about NetWare" or "moving their product lines to be enhanced linux servers". Their position has been solutions for the past 8 years or so. They push the directory model and make peripheral products that use it. They are [almost] as happy for you to use eDirectory on Windows, Solaris, Linux or whatever as NetWare. Using Linux means they don't have to put resources into a kernel and commodity services and can focus on what they do - making a BETTER version of what everyone is doing.

    Their GUI isn't really lacking - it's a basic XFree86 - it does the job. I am pretty much never at my console so I don't even load it. And Gnome as an admin desktop is unlikely to be what they want - again, NetWare admins rarely use the console - certinaly not for normal admin which is all currently a mix of the 5 year old Java ConsoleOne and increasingly Web based.

  38. Re:Good News?!#@#$ by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    WHAT??? The Novell guys origionally tried to squash the SCO lawsuit because they believed that they still owned the copyright to the source code. The origional and first amended copies of the contract spelled it out that way, it was only a second amended copy from several years later that some mid level exec signed that the copyright was signed over (somebody at SCO pulled a smart one there, it probably never even went by a lawyer for Novell). Novell doesn't even think they have a copy of the second amended copy, but they did verify that SCO's copy was legit and signed by an authorized representitive of the corporation.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  39. Novell never wanted WordPerfect by McShazbot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Everybody keeps comparing this to Novell's "disatrous" purchase of WordPerfect -- but that was no disaster. They never wanted WordPerfect; they wanted Groupwise. Wordperfect wasn't interested in selling just Groupwise, so Novell bought the whole she-bang, stripped out Groupwise, then unloaded the rest of it on those poor chumps at Corel. The whole thing actually made a lot of sense for Novell . . .

    --
    When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. But when life gives you crap, please don't make a beverage out of it.
    1. Re:Novell never wanted WordPerfect by kotfu · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I call BS on the "it wasn't a disaster" argument.

      Novel merged with WordPerfect in Jun 1994. Novell gave up 51 million shares of stock to get all the outstanding shares of WordPerfect. NOVL was trading near $15. That puts the price tag for the deal well over 700 million bucks.

      Two years later, Novell unloads WordPerfect to Corel for 11 million in cash and 10 million shares of Corel stock. At that time CORL was about $10. Value of deal: 110 million.

      That means Novell paid 600 million for Groupwise. Seems like a disaster to me.

  40. Re:What an embarassment by BJZQ8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Having first-hand experience with Netware 3, 4, 5, and 6, I can say that their products are pretty neat...but way too overcomplicated for anything short of a multinational company. In my position in schools, I can tell you that all of this eDirectory and Application Launcher and ZEN are pretty un-necessary....much less costly, and yet equally effective, solutions exist in the Linux world. Oh, and we still used the keyboard to do most of our stuff...Novell and GUI just don't look right in the same sentence...

  41. Ximian Gnome+RedCarpet+... is definitely of value by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are three areas where GNOME is of value to them:

    * Evolution -- since they control the direction of it, they can integrate Novell services

    * RedCarpet (which is popular and linked to Evolution and Ximian GNOME's success) -- able to ship Novell products to several distributions and to Sun and HP.

    * Ximian GNOME (which standardizes the UI and RPMs/DEBs of several desktops) -- allows Novell services to install easier because the have a common install environment (it's basically like UnitedLinux, but broader). This environment also allows them to use RedCarpet to distribute and install other corporate products from other companies (much like Lindows does with their "clip-and-run").

    So every facet of Ximian is perfect for Novell. They made a good choice. I hope that they're able to deliver on even half the potential.

  42. Novell is dying by swb · · Score: 2, Redundant

    AFAICT Novell is dying, doomed to become another company like Banyan. NDS is a superior technology, but Novell fumbled it with NW 5; we had to switch to Win2k for the sake of our Mac clients, which Novell walked away from.

    All the resellers I talk to say nobody buys Netware new, virtually all of the Novell sales they do are upgrades for a few loyalists that won't switch to anything else.

    I won't argue the superiority of Win2k in any sense; NW4.11 NDS was vastly better, especially when dealing with multi-site and distributed security setups. But Novell became just impossible for us if we wanted to keep our Macs reasonably integrated with the PCs.

    IMHO Novell's purchase of Cambridge Tech Partners was an acknowledgement that their days are numbered. Perhaps purchasing Ximian will enable them to get into the Linux consulting world.

  43. Has anyone thought.... by CooCooCaChoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That Ximian may give more to Novell that what Novell can give to Ximian.

    Think about it. Novell Netware 6.5 has a *really* crap management console, why not purchase the necesssary skills to improve it?

    Now, lets add on top of that the fact that Novell doesn't want to be left out. They have Java, why not add a dot-net compliant framework to the mix so that no matter what the outcome of the framework wars is, Novell will be sitting back with a smile on their face knowing that what ever the outcome, they're covered either way.

    Then lets add ontop of that! there are now *MORE* businesses moving to centralised processing, why not make Novell an viable alternative to Windows? get OpenOffice.org, Ximian GNOME, Evolution etc and you will have a really good combo for the end user.

    Add even *MORE* ontop by the fact they Novell will earn some brownie points in the developer circles by embracing openstandards and as a net result, Novell has *NOTHING* to lose and everything to gain from this.

    --

    "The difference between pornography and erotica is the lighting" - Woody Allen

  44. Re:Unfortunately.... by FatRatBastard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Doubtful. Once the barn door is open its hard to close. IBM is a perfect example: Make a business computer out of standard parts (mainly because the project is a fast tracked, skunkworks type project without the time or budget to build everything inhouse), watch the "clone" makers jump into your market, try to squash the clone market with the proprietary MCA style PS/2s. Where did the market go?

    Same thing would probably happend with MS. Unless it can kill mono completely (via IP claims) once its out of the bag they probably won't be able to control it with an iron fist. Even if they change APIs midstream if Mono has enough of a following and is cross platform an awful lot of people will stick with it.

  45. Cisco UI by Dom2 · · Score: 3, Informative
    Don't underrate the cisco UI. It's one of the best command line experiences out there. No matter what point you're at, press "?" and you'll be told your options. Based on twenex, I believe.

    The only thing that's even remotely comparable is zsh.

    -Dom

  46. Possibilities by The+Evil+Muppet · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The way I see it, there is an awful lot that Novell stands to gain out of this:
    • A native Groupwise client - Novell has publicly stated that the anticipated move away from client software to web interface access to Groupwise was wrong. Looking at the Ximian press release confirms this part of the deal. The fact that they now have Java clients available to fill this gap seems a bit hollow now really.
    • Another bit of server software to flaunt - Novell is being a lot more proactive in expanding the Novell NetWare software library as of late. They assisted in the ports of PostgreSQL and MySQL to NetWare after Oracle dropped support. Mono fits rather nicely considering the above.
    • They can let PHB and BOFH types have their way - Some PHBs will choose Windows as their server platform based on the "strugle" (read slaughter) involving .NOT and J2EE. If Novell throw some resources behind Mono, they can also fill that role for those who must have a commercial OS (yes, all 6 of you).
    • ZenWorks gets a boost - Red Carpet works and works well now. As ZenWorks is one of the cornerstones of Novell's Linux strategy, anything they can get their hands on to improve it is a definite "yes, gimme!".
    • "From the trenches" assistance with their Linux push - Even though Novell have plenty of experience developing for UNIX in general and Linux specifically, having some of the bods from Ximian to help out with the porting of things like iPrint to Linux would have to be a plus
    • Offering the complete package - Even though they tend to work together a fair bit these days (both are committed to J2EE, both are involved in the Liberty alliance), Novell needs a desktop strategy to compete with Sun's desktop Linux plans. Additionally, their sales force will no longer need to say "Sure! We can provide all of your server needs! Err...client side? Umm....the area code for Redmond is...."
    • Highlighting Novell's commitment to the open source world - Even though Novell have backed down slightly from those dicks who sell stuff that they dare call a UNIX (all who want to see an OpenServer box urinated on, set on fire and then detonated get in touch) this is a pretty decent way of saying "Yes, you own the copyright to a few things. Think we care?"

    Well, that's me out of ideas.

  47. Re:What an embarassment by reemul · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Novell makes great *products*. As a company, they suck. They had a total lock on network services, and threw it away. Bill Gates and his evil minions didn't do it to them, they did it to themselves, over and over, because their management just doesn't know what they are doing, or what market they are in.

    They're like that Mel Brooks movie where they try to make the worst musical ever to collect on the insurance. Novell executives have been trying to kill the company with the most absurd policies imaginable for years, only saved from disaster by some really outstanding products that were so good that even Novell couldn't fail to sell them.

    Netware 3.x was so superior to its competitors that it was in a separate category. Excited at their success, Novell then proceeded to screw their sales channel by changing the reseller requirements on an almost daily basis (we actually got two different updates on the same day, but that was an aberration). Not content with that, they bought up Word Perfect and decided that they were a software company. Resellers had to get training on those products, too, or lose status. Too bad the training didn't actually exist, or was expensive and only available several hundred miles away. Maybe we should take that Unixware class instead. Oops. Oh, and they started pusing their own consulting services in direct competition with their resellers.

    Apparently, that didn't drive enough folks into Microsoft's hands. So they decided to come out with a completely new technology that was backwards compatible only if you turned off most of the new features that justified upgrading in the first place. And it was slower. Oh, and the initial release was so broken that when the first dot rev came out, you couldn't upgrade. Take *that*, early adopter scum! You either had to drop back to 3.x and do the entire upgrade and migration all over again, or use some expensive third party tools and hope for the best.

    NT took off in no small part because we just got tired of dealing with Novell. It was never great, but it was Good Enough, and their conversion tool from 3.x was at least as easy to use as jumping to Netware 4. Brilliant.

    You think Novell buying Ximian will help? No matter how good the code they are pushing in a given week is, they couldn't sell water to a guy who was on fire. Only Xerox is worse at coming up with great ideas and failing to sell them. The best that can be hoped for is that Novell won't screw the project up too badly before they get bored with their newest shiny toy and spin it off to someone else. It could be a good match that has great long term benefits, but it's probably going to be another slow agonizing failure.

    --
    You're just jealous 'cuz the voices talk to *me*
  48. buying a potential anti-trust lawsuit? by ketan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder if they're buying a potential anti-trust lawsuit. If MS screws Ximian Mono by changing .NET or pointing the patent gun at them or whatever, Novell will have the resources to go after them for abusing a monopoly position, whereas it would be harder for Ximian to do that on their own. Kind of like with DR-DOS, although I think it was Caldera who pursued the litigation in that case.

    This post started as a joke; now I'm not so sure.

    --
    You have a choice: tax and spend Democrats, or borrow and spend Republicans. Choose wisely.
  49. Re:Wha...? by RealisticWeb.com · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The State of Utah is predominately Mormon.
    So yeah, Novell is probably run by Mormons.

    Well I don't mean to troll, but that's a silly connection. The largest church in California is the Catholic church, but I wouldn't assume Cisco is being run by catholics. A poster farther down made a great annalogy, I wouldn't assume SuSE is being run by the German government just because most of the employees are German.

    Let's keep religion out of the whole SCO/Novell/'Anything else techie' argument when it has absolutely nothing to do with religion at all.

    --
    Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
  50. Re:AOL Buys Netscape, dumps it after MS settlement by rendler · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Novell buys Ximian, dumps Evolution after settling with MS for about $2 bn.

    Yes and the community picks up the slack where Ximian left off. Just like all the other software out there released under a Free license.
    --

    *shrug*
  51. XD2? Nah! Its services they want by joshsnow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I personally don't think that Novell have much interest in the Ximian Desktop. They may have some interest in Evolution - maybe there's a hairbrained scheme to mate it with Wordperect and Gnumeric to produce a bastardized "Office Suite".
    No, I think Novell are interested in servers and services. Microsoft are making alot of noise about WebServices on the .NET platform. The way things are going, pretty much anyone who wants to do webservices the Microsoft way will have to purchase Win2003 or whatever it's called in the future - or download the .NET framework if you can't be bothered buying a new OS. However, Novell probably hope to offer a competing stack for webservices based on mono and Linux - much more compelling because they're cheap/free.
    Novell are also trying to leverage NDS on Linux as an alternative to Mickeys active directory. Add RedCarpet into the mix for easy update/deployablility and of course the Ximian connector stuff as a bonus, and they've pretty much got a whole competing stack.
    It remains to be seen if Novell now underplay their hand as they have done in the past...

  52. Re:Wha...? by DarkSarin · · Score: 2, Informative

    LOL
    In truth, Utah is not nearly as high a percentage of "Mormons" as you probably think.
    Care to take a guess?

    80% you think?
    Try again.

    How about 55%?

    Yup, that's right. Only 55%? While this is higher than any other state, its hardly as strong as most people believe.

    Furthermore, the whole idea that Mormons run Novell because it is based in Utah is hardly fair, but even if it were so, I think that the initial assertion on this thread is a little goofy--Novell, even if it were owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, would not put itself in such a precarious position buy forcing religious literature down any one's LAN. Sorry, just wouldn't happen.

    --
    "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
  53. Re:Wha...? by Xerithane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's higher than 55%:
    Mormon density, the percentage of Mormons in Utah in 2003 is approximately sixty four percent (64%).
    -- From Wild Utah.

    --
    Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
  54. Re:Wha...? by ahknight · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yes.

  55. History, never repeats.Novell Expose-Blame Noorda by NZheretic · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "History, Never Repeats, I Tell Myself, Before I Go to sleep." - Split Enz

    Back in April 25, 1994, PC Magazine had an article announcing that Novell Inc was developing a Linux based desktop system for Windows, DOS, NetWare, and Unix applications.

    From that project, a group of Novell alumni formed Caldera Systems International with the backing of Novell's founder, Ray Noorda.

    The Canopy Group, which purchased major holding in Caldera, was also founded by Ray Noorda.

    Today Caldera Systems International, trading under the name The SCO GROUP Inc, at the direction of executives at the Canopy Group Inc, is threating the same target Linux desktop market for using the same technology that Novell owned and sublicensed to the original SCO.

  56. Remember, there are a lot of Novell installations by WoTG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fact 1: A lot of Novell installations are still out there. I would hazard a guess that a disproportionate number of the larger corporate networks are Novell.
    Fact 2: Linux is slowing making it's way into corporate networks, but realistically very few companies will completely switch over.
    Given this, we see that more so than ever before, it's a mixed network future, Linux + MS + Novell (sometimes) + Whatever. Something people haven't mentioned too much is that Novell Directory Services has add-ons to make it cross-platform, Microsofts AD does NOT. So, if you want to make your spiffy new mixed network run smoothly with less administrative work the choice is clear now, run Novell NDS - possibly even if you don't have Novell servers at all!
    Good deal for all involved... all makes sense to me at least.

  57. Re:Wha...? by ahknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's a difference to considering the mentality of a religion everyone's a member of in a country (Spain, Mexico, France, Italy, etc.) when a full sixth of the world is the same religion and most of them couldn't care less what religion they say they are, as opposed to a religion that has a good number less members that are only highly-concentrated in one place in all the world.

    Even stranger that that place is Utah.

  58. Only True Within the Developer Community by reallocate · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >> If they are OSS, the community can take over. I thought that was the whole benefit to OSS in the first place.

    That only applies within the narrow developer community. It is quite unreasonable to expect end users to start writing code just to turn an annoying piece of software into something they will use. Instead, they will simply look for a better program.

    In addition, consider a business that's evaluating Ximian. If Ximian goes bust, the fact that the code they leave behind is open source doesn't do that business any good unless one or both of these two conditions are met:

    1) They pay developers to maintain and support the code.

    2) They depend on the "community" to maintain and support the code.

    The first option will be ruled out by the first manager who says: "You know, if we'd bought Windows, we wouldn't be in this spot right now. Why should we start hiring developers? We're not a software company. This open source stuff is going to cost too much."

    The second option will be ruled out by the first manager who says: "We need this code to keep our business running. How can we depend on some anonymous and amorphous bunch of developers to support our requirements? What happens if they walk away from this code? Face it, we either need to spend money to move back to Windows or spend money to pay some people to maintain this code ourselves. Either way, we're spending money we wouldn't be spending if we'd stuck with Microsoft."

    Support and credibility as a business with staying power are the Achille's heels for any company marketing open source. Being purchased by Novell will give Ximian needed credibility among the corporate and business clients they are going after.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  59. Re:Wha...? by SoSueMe · · Score: 2, Funny

    "it's still a relative unknown to most people, and it has a peculiar history."
    So it DOES make a good match for Linux!
    The same phrase applies quite nicely.

  60. Mac OS X is the answer by dudle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No.

    The real answer for Unix on the desktop is Mac OS X. Linux is a pain in the ass on the desktop, with or without Ximian.

    I would know, I've recently switched to Apple after Using Linux (all distribs) for > 6 years.

    --
    Looking for a great online backup: Green Backup
  61. Well put by bogie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As probably one of the few people here who actually knows what Banyan was I'd have to agree completely. Novell simply didn't transition to ANYTHING since 4.11. When the world went app server crazy in the mid 90's they left Novell behind. Look at how shitty NT 4.0 was when it came out. Look at how fast ISV's and companies fled Novell and their crappy programing interfaces. Oh sure a bunch of companies keep Novell around for File/Print/Directory services, but for Internet apps and groupware apps, Windows ate Novell's lunch.

    Novell is dying, its just a question of when. New companies simply don't invest in Novell, its mostly just old investments which are keeping them afloat. As a CNE and longtime Novell admin its not like I don't appreciate what Netware does/did well, but like the parent mentioned talk to any reseller. They'll be the first to tell you that Novell peaked in the early 90's and has gone downhill since.

    I'm not really sure what this means for Ximian. Perhaps this is more of an exit stratedy for Novell more than anything else since its obvious that Netware isn't going to be a reliable cash source forever. At least with Ximian they have at least some sort of opportunity for new growth.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  62. Re:Wha...? by Arker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's higher than 55%. But even if it weren't, that's still a majority, which means the original poster was right, most utahans are mormons.

    And yes, the first post was 'a little goofy' that's why it's rated funny. Laugh. Hahah. You familiar with the concept?

    I spent some of the best years of my life surrounded by mormons, I've had a lot of mormon friends, I've got nothing against mormons. Doesn't mean we can't occasionally joke about them. Fact is, most of the good mormon jokes I've heard were told to me by mormons. The best lawyer jokes always came from my aunt who is a lawyer, and the best jew jokes I know came from friends who are jewish. Humour is a pretty universal human trait. Although every group has a few that just don't get it, apparently.

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  63. Re:RIP Ximian and Novell by AntiOrganic · · Score: 2, Funny

    Actually, the Ximian logo rather shows a diving monkey

    It always looked more to me like it was sprawled out at a murder scene.

  64. Re:What is the future of Open Source if... by TheAwfulTruth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except that the idea that every major product would instantly transfer over to another competent maintainer that can grow the code as needed is a bit far fetched. It may happen some of the time, but most of the time the old code would probably die off in a couple or short years. (Or be bought up again by another commercial competitor)

    I know this sounds a bit doomey and gloomey, but recent events seem to suggest that there might be some real danger of this in the future.

    --
    Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
  65. Excellent partnership by Ubiquitous+Bubba · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Over the last few years, Novell has undergone a quiet metamorphosis. Written off as a failure once Windows NT shipments exceeded NetWare sales, Novell surprised many by refusing to die. Even after committing multiple marketing blunders, the company continued to survive. No longer Microsoft's arch enemy, Novell silently reoganized. In the past few years, Novell has focused on basing networking solutions on Directory Services. Once eDirectory could run on Windows NT/2000, the unbelievable occurred: eDirectory on Linux. While Novell's initial efforts were not taken seriously by Microsoft, most businesses or the Linux community, it was an important step. Jump forward a few years and Novell is strongly supporting Linux in the enterprise with a declaration of services for Linux. In addition, Novell is supporting OSS on NetWare. With the purchase of Ximian, Novell is aligning itself even more with Linux. Is Novell doing this to get back at Microsoft? I don't believe so. Novell wants to sell products. They see a dwindling future for NetWare if it competes against Windows and Linux. Considering their options, I believe they've made the smart choice.

    --
    After exhaustive research and excrutiating analysis, I've determined that Bubba is, in fact, everywhere.
  66. it's not Gnome desktop they're after by FSK · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's Mono and evolution. Think about it, they've just gotten (for what I bet was a very reasonable price) THE most experienced .NET porting group in the world.

    My prediction is that Novel will:

    1) Port Mono to Netware.
    2) Port Evolution to Windows (with a connector for GroupWise)
    3) Keep Ximian active in the Linux/Unix world, just so they can generate good-will and credibility if/when they're forced to make Linux they're main focus.

    --
    When punk rock is outlawed, only outlaws will have punk rock.
  67. Re:Dang, you're going to need another example (-: by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I meant bugs so that it could cover both bacteria and insects, also my spelling is very weak so it was easier. You are leaving out mutation. New or at least different genetic material is created all the time by mutation. Remember not all mutations are harmful.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.