Slashdot Mirror


AMD Buys Pre-VIA Cyrix Media-GX Division

An anonymous reader writes "A long time ago, in what feels like a different universe, Cyrix created the first sub-$1000 PC based on a 2 chip solution called the Media-GX. Soon after National Semiconductor bought Cyrix, keeping the Media-GX team and selling the 686MX team to VIA. In the meantime, the Media-GX team have created the a series of single chip PCs, and a totally new CPU, the GX2. Now National Semiconductor is selling the division to AMD, which should give it a higher profile and better fab technology again." Reader jlouderb reminds us of National Semiconductor's Device Girls promotion, "a lame take-off on the Spice Girls," and points to coverage at eWeek of the purchase.

34 of 157 comments (clear)

  1. Old school by mao+che+minh · · Score: 5, Informative
    Speaking of old CPUs: Memory lane of old CPUs

    It even has a picture of the Media-GX in there.

  2. Device Girls by saskwach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ugh, can't anyone appeal to common sense instead of sex drive? Make way for bad hardware related puns.

    1. Re:Device Girls by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, I wanna know where they are now. Where's the E! True Hollywood Story on the Device Girls? Are they in pr0n, yet? :)

      USB Spice
      FireWire Spice
      Gigabit Spice
      mini-ITX Spice

      Mmmmm.

    2. Re:Device Girls by tuffy · · Score: 3, Funny
      USB Spice FireWire Spice Gigabit Spice mini-ITX Spice

      Don't forget PSpice.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

  3. lame? hardly... by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They certainly looked better than the Spice Girls. I bet they sounded better, too, though who cares about that. :)

  4. Reminds me of something else... by goldspider · · Score: 4, Funny
    "Reader jlouderb reminds us of National Semiconductor's Device Girls promotion, 'a lame take-off on the Spice Girls,'"

    Am I the only one who thought of "Device Girls" as those unenlightened females who prefer various mechanical devices over us virile geeks?

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:Reminds me of something else... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Am I the only one who thought of "Device Girls" as those unenlightened females who prefer various mechanical devices over us virile geeks?

      yes

  5. Possible purpose by crow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps what AMD wants is not their CPU, but the stuff that they've integrated in with it to create a single-chip PC. In a year or so, we might see a single-chip system based on one of the AMD processors.

    1. Re:Possible purpose by RevRigel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You can already get single chip systems based on their IA chips if you're doing embedded development: Kontron's X-Board, which just came out. We're using a Kontron PC/104 board with a standalone Geode on it right now and it's the most rock solid board I've ever used. The X-board is going to make our next revision incredibly small, low power, and inexpensive.

      Although, I have to wonder what this will do the ZFMicrosystems lawsuit against National. Basically, ZFMicro was started by the original founder of Ampro, which originated the popular PC/104 standard, and integrated a 586 processor core with a bunch of peripherals into the ZFx86, a neat little cheap (I have an MZ104 from Tri-m Systems that uses it. Squeezes a slackware distro into a 6.8MB file on a flash chip). Unfortunately, ZFMicro used National as their foundry and for some of their last-line development. So National got access to schematics and layout info for the chip, instead of just masks. National then proceeded to steal it and integrate the Geode proc they bought from Cyrix with some on-chip peripherals in the same way, and then put ZFMicro out of business by refusing to ship any more ZFx86s.

    2. Re:Possible purpose by swordboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps what AMD wants is not their CPU, but the stuff that they've integrated in with it to create a single-chip PC.

      Well... that is the only logical conclusion. ARM has taken the portable world because X86 compatibility isn't important there. It will be some time before AMD can afford to put an entire Athlon system on a chip but it will eventually happen. Now they just need to buy a graphics chip designer like AMD or nVidia.

      Can you imagine the bandwidth between CPU and video? A 2048-bit bus between video and CPU wouldn't be a problem if you put it all on the same chip, not to mention the reduction in latentcy with the memory interface.

      Maybe the nVidia/AMD relationship ala NForce is a sign of what is to come?

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    3. Re:Possible purpose by Dielectric · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not close at all, but interestingly they go after the same applications. The Au1x00 chips are MIPS cored, so they're not even close architecturally.

      I really have no good idea why AMD bought these jokers. Maybe AMD was infringing on NS's IP, and the results was that AMD just buys that part of NS?

      Damn, it's hot under this tinfoil hat.

    4. Re:Possible purpose by William+Tanksley · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you remember the interview with Chuck Moore (of Forth fame) a while back, he was promoting a chip kinda like this. 25 CPUs all on one chip (5x5), with a grid of 18-bit busses, 5 each way, connecting them all to each other horizontally and vertically. He hadn't built any, but based on his previous chips at much larger scales, he was estimating about 2400MHz maximum bus input latency; with 10 independant busses, that means an upper bound of 10*2400M*18=432,000Mbps internal.

      Of course, that's all noise -- none of the chips would have time to do real work :-), nor to listen for any of that "information". But the sheer magnitude of the number is a bit staggering. But anyhow, yes, on-chip busses are pretty fun.

      Oh, latest rumor: he took the 25x page down because he'd found a buyer. Very little other info available.

      -Billy

  6. Arrgh by 4of12 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Please, do not revive the old jokes about mount and devices.

    We've all read the sigs about the subject.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  7. Re:Yes but... by computechnica · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They were the first true 2-chip(CPU+Northbridge and a Southbridge) Computers for failed Information Appliance market (IE Audrey,Virgin Webplayer, ETc). Very small, cheap, and power effecient. I have a Webplayer that I modded to run RH as a Mp3 player and Digital picture frame with WiFi and it only uses 25 watts including monitor!!

  8. What AMD needs to buy is... by notetoi · · Score: 2

    a chipset company, and/or a motherboard company, and someone to clarify the cpu naming mombo-jumbo! Confusion is not the way to compete!

    (offtopic, I know, just venting)

    1. Re:What AMD needs to buy is... by theendlessnow · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... Intel. That would certainly solve many of their problems.

    2. Re:What AMD needs to buy is... by Hoser+McMoose · · Score: 2, Insightful

      AMD seems to be finally starting to take chipset design somewhat seriously, plus they finally got a decent third party chipset manufacturer a couple years ago when nVidia signed on. I don't think that they need to make motherboards themselves, but I do believe that they should contract one of the Taiwanese companies to make AMD-branded motherboards.

      As for AMD's naming scheme though, I rather like how they are doing things with the Opteron. It's VERY simple but also much more descriptive than using MHz/GHz to describe a chip. You have three numbers, first represents how many of these chips you can pack into a single system (1, 2 or 8), the second represents the core revision (currently only version '4', which I guess is a rather random number to start with), and the last represents relative performance within that core version (0, 2, 4 and now 6).

      Personally I find that much easier and less confusing than just MHz. Take Intel's Pentium 4 for example. There were 3 different versions of the 2.0GHz P4 and now 3 different versions of the 2.4GHz chip. The 3.06GHz P4 is faster than one version of the 3.0GHz P4, but slower than the other version of the 3.0GHz P4. To differentiate all these different versions Intel just sticks letters like 'A', 'B' etc. at the end of the clock speed in a fairly random manner. For the 2.0GHz vs. 2.0A chip, the 'A' referred to having more cache and lower power consumption. For the 2.4GHz vs. 2.4B vs. 2.4C chips it's all bus speed (400MHz vs. 533MHz vs. 800MHz). Of course, Intel REALLY out did themselves back with the old 600MHz PIII, where they had no less than 6 different versions of the chip! What's worse, a socket PIII 600MHz chip was NOT the same chip as a Slot 1 PIII 600MHz, but rather the same as a PIII 600E.

      Long story short, using MHz/GHz to name chips is VERY confusing in this day and age. Things like cache size, I/O bandwidth and memory bandwidth are of major importance, while clock speed plays only a limited role in many situations.

  9. In a galexy far, far away by 7x7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I bought a montherboard with a 166+ 686 CPU from Cyrix. It worked better and lasted longer than the Gateway pentium 166 boxes we had at work. Alas, my rommate spilled a pot of coffee on the bugger and it died with a POP, a SNAP and a SIZZLE. From what I learned, there were two versions of that chip. Version 1 overheated a lot, but if you kept it cool it was fine. Verion 2 didn't overheat, but flaked and flaked and flaked until you wanted to beat it with a bat. My sis wanted a box and I got her a $199 PC with a Cyrix MII 333 chip a few years later. Mistake. 'nuf said. End of my Cyrix experience.

    1. Re:In a galexy far, far away by gangibson · · Score: 2

      If by "version 2," you mean the 6x86L/PR166, that was my first Pentium-oid (i.e., not 486) CPU! Initially, I was quite pleased by it. Of course, as I started dabbling with 3d graphics (ok, ok, Quake), I quickly found the CPU's major shortcoming: really poor FPU performance. Anyway, I wanted to say that I had no trouble with its stability. No "flaking," no urges to beat it with a bat. Well, no stability-related urges to beat it with a bat... Good times, good times.

  10. Better Device Girls image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    For what it's worth, Google is your friend


  11. AMD Using Geode to Lower Opteron/Athlon64 Power by reporter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    AMD is buying the 80x86 division of National Semiconductor (NSM) in order to obtain the embedded 80x86 technology and employee talent for lowering the power consumption of Opteron and Athlon64. The AMD 80x86 processors have generally run hotter than Intel 80x86 processors. Since AMD is in a brutal competition with Intel for marketshare, AMD must quickly improve its competitive position.

    AMD will not use the 80x86 division of NSM to create a 80x86 embedded processor. 80x86 chips fare poorly in the embedded market, which is dominated by ARM.

    1. Re:AMD Using Geode to Lower Opteron/Athlon64 Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      wow that is utter bullcrap.

      ARM processors are very tiny nitche of the embedded market. Most embedded systems use 68HC Motorola processors and if they need more power X86 Based because of the flexibility of RTDOS and RTLinux.

      Go ahead, fine me a PC-104 ARM based board. gee why does most of the embedded system tha mean a damn like industrial control/ flight systems and automation NOT use ARM??

      because embedded = a whole helluva lot more than the crappy PDA toy market.

    2. Re:AMD Using Geode to Lower Opteron/Athlon64 Power by evilviper · · Score: 2, Informative
      The AMD 80x86 processors have generally run hotter than Intel 80x86 processors.

      That's just not true anymore... As of about the P4 days, Intel has been using just as much power, and putting off as much heat as equivalent AMD processors.

      In fact, comparing an Intel P4 2GHz to my AMD XP 2000+ was interesting... It looks like the AMD chip gives off less heat, and also has a maximum operating temperature that is 20C degrees greater than the P4. That doesn't bode well for Intel.

      http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:AMD Using Geode to Lower Opteron/Athlon64 Power by Hoser+McMoose · · Score: 2, Informative

      AMD chips have not generally run any hotter than their Intel counterparts. Occasionally one of the other might consume more power, but they tend to switch order. Right now Intel is quite firmly in the "hot seat" so to speak. Top-end P4's are consuming over 80W of power, while the top AthlonXP chips are only using about 65W of power and the Opteron uses less (though it's exact power consumption is currently undocumented). Back when the Athlon was competing with the PIII, the Athlon consumed more power. Before that the AMD K6-2/K6-III chips consumed less power than comperable PII/Celeron chips, however the K6 chip consumed more power than the Pentium MMX.

      In all though, I'm really not sure what AMD is after with this purchase. They already have a line of embedded x86 processors (which DO have a very good use in the embedded market in that they are by far the easiest chips to develop for and can often use a lot of existing software instead of requiring companies to develop their own). They might be looking to take some of the video/sound/etc technology embedded in the Geode chip and add it to their own embedded line. However, AMD has mostly discontinued their line of embedded x86 chips in favor of their new Alchemy line of MIPS chips. Maybe their buying the Geode as a sort of replacement for their old embedded x86 chips but kind of starting that whole division again from scratch? Or maybe they're hoping to glue some of the technology from the Geode onto the Alchemy chips? I don't know.

    4. Re:AMD Using Geode to Lower Opteron/Athlon64 Power by mvdw · · Score: 2, Informative
      Go ahead, fine me a PC-104 ARM based board. gee why does most of the embedded system tha mean a damn like industrial control/ flight systems and automation NOT use ARM??

      What, like this?

  12. This headline has so many acronyms... by Savatte · · Score: 3, Funny

    that with a few changes, it would be as if somebody forgot to turn caps lock off.

  13. Re:National Semiconductor analog procs? by stratjakt · · Score: 2

    "This deal makes sense for both companies," Halla said in a prepared statement. I"This allows National Semiconductor to focus on growing our core analog business and improving our returns. At the same time, AMD will be able to leverage the Geode technology through their existing manufacturing and marketing infrastructure."

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  14. If ya wanna be my lover by aardwolf204 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ya gotta be compatible

    --
    Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the /.crowd.May ur days b merry & bright & may al
  15. Stating the obvious? by hndrcks · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does AMD's purchase of low-power technology have anything to do with this?

    --
    Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
  16. Competition for VIA EPIA? by Stonent1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This looks like it could directly compete with the EPIA Mini-ITX. I don't know what the fastest media gx core is, but it would be cool if AMD released a Mini-ITX board based around it. Especially if it could be done cheaper than the VIA board.

  17. Good tech by afidel · · Score: 3, Funny

    I remember Alan Cox stating that he was using a Media-GX based system to write and test the soundblaster layer for linux because the media-GX was a better fit to the SB standard then any of Creatives then current chips. He reasoned that if he could get closer to the origional standard then most clones would work, and aparantly he was right =)

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  18. Most stable, works with any card, best system ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Is an AMD K6-III (not K6-III+) 400 MHz 2.0 v processor, on an FIC VA-503+ mother board, which runs a VIA chip set, of course.

    In terms of uptimes on my samba file server and NAT box, in terms of working with whatever card I shoved in it (BIOS upgrades for the newer stuff, of course), in terms of working with cheap shitty memory (after slowing the PC-100 RAM to 95 MHz), it just works. I have a stacks of junk Intel shit that works great until I actually wanted to put a Promise RAID card in it, works great until except you can't put a PCI video card in the first PCI slot, it has to be the second, works great except that it doesn't work great. It sucks.

    The ABIT KT7 with an Athlon or Duron approached the VA-503 / K6 combo in flexibility. I like those. Above that, getting into the 2 GHz and up boards and chips, nothing stands up to my standard of "working". Anytime you try to do something slightly weird (plug in several USB cards, and use the built-in, to load dozens of USB key chains at once with demo crap to be passed out as doorprizes at a conference, for example) something just doesn't work, you start fiddling, and next thing you know it is 7 pm and you are calling you wife telling her not to expect you in before midnight.

    People at work make fun of my bench with 4 VA-503+'s in their ancient AT cases, and my stack of spare 503 boards in cardboard boxes. But they don't complain when I get shit done on time.

    I'm looking forward to the next really reliable setup. What I would like to do is discover a cheap mini-ITX with that slow-ass VIA C3 chip on it that was cheap and low powered enough that I could just have dozens of them, esentially haveing a separate computer for each little task. I doubt it however. It just shifts a lot of problematic issues over to the network configuration.

  19. Ireland? Israel? Third World? by meehawl · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It would give as much capacity as Intel who owns FABs in third world countries.
    Next time you're visiting the Intel fabs in Ireland or Israel, why not loudly let some local people know your opinion of their countries as "third world"? Don't worry about healing your extensive injuries afterwards though, because both these countries have an amazing, free healthcare system that makes the US look, well, kind of "third-worldish".

    Where are the world's Fabs?
    --

    Da Blog
  20. Not just video! by MarcQuadra · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But there's more! it's not just video on the CPU, it's the north AND south bridges! The CPU, GPU, memory controller, PCI controller, and who-knows-what-else are on this bad-boy! I've been wanting this sort of thing for a long time!

    I understand that the price will be longer development cycles and raw performance, but there are a LOT of uses for machines based on this type of thinking. Imagine how inexpensive PCs based on this type of thing could get, and how little power they would require! If managers get their heads around the idea of centralized computing again (as they should in the office) we're going to see huge demand for inexpensive fast-enough graphical terminals.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails