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How Can Techies Give Back?

KReilly asks: "As the school year starts back up for me, I have been looking for a volunteer program I could work in. This year I have been considering creating my own non-profit organization, but I still lack a clear picture of what I hope to accomplish. I have read about communities wiring classrooms for the internet in California, and repairing computers donated by businesses for schools. I would like to do this, but find many schools and libraries would deny this donation since its maintenance would be too big of an investment for them and they do not want to experiment with Open Source alternatives that would lower the PC repair cost. So my question to you is how do you, as a tech, give back to society and aid in social programs? And, any information/advice you wanted to share on my original idea would be much appreciated."

85 comments

  1. Lots of things by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Help in a gubernatorial election campaign.

    Volunteer at the soup kitchen.

    Donate unused stuff to Goodwill.

    Offer your time to the old-folks home.

    Pick up litter in your neighborhood.

    Give money to the Salvation Army.

    Offer to read to children in the hospital.

    Drop a few dimes into a homeless person's cup.

    Buy a couple dozen Krispy Kreme donuts for your coworkers.

    Start a community watch program in your neighborhood.

    There are so many things you can do that do not necessarily require technology. These things are easier to give and easier to receive because people in need do not always have the means to support technological donations. It's the human touch that is important in charity.

    1. Re:Lots of things by rmohr02 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There are so many things you can do that do not necessarily require technology. These things are easier to give and easier to receive because people in need do not always have the means to support technological donations. It's the human touch that is important in charity.
      This is true, but the submitter does have skills, and would rather utilize those skills than do something anyone can do. This is not dissimilar from lawyers doing pro-bono legal work.
    2. Re:Lots of things by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 1

      Unless he's willing to support these machines at no charge indefinitely, then it's unlikely he will have very many takers. It's all about the TCO, of which startup costs (which he is offering to bring to zero) is only a small portion.

    3. Re:Lots of things by rmohr02 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is assuming he would be installing something new. He could merely maintain something someone else has set up. If he could find enough other interested people in the IT field he could create a non-profit org (as mentioned in the article), and then it would be more realistic to support machines for a given period of time (though not indefinitely).

  2. huh? by ceejayoz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they do not want to experiment with Open Source alternatives that would lower the PC repair cost

    What Open Source software packages are going to lower the repair costs of a PC?

    1. Re:huh? by kernelistic · · Score: 1

      There are other infered costs other than the hardware. Paying a tech to reload Windows (or fix whatever Win32 software package which broke for whatever reason) is what the poster was talking about.

    2. Re:huh? by ceejayoz · · Score: 1

      What, and Open Source software is automatically perfect and never breaks like a Win32 package? They're going to have to pay techs to repair stuff whether it's Linux or Windows.

      Not only that, but their card catalog software's most likely either web based or runs only on Windows - either way, it costs them nothing to stay with Windows.

    3. Re:huh? by kernelistic · · Score: 1

      Well, it's been known that Windows disintegrates over time with casual use, even when no updates to the system are made. Having to support a LAN full of Windows machines has always been more of time and resource intensive than a UNIX counterpart (Assuming competant admins); Anyone that's spent 20 minutes in the real world (academia or professionally) could tell you that.

    4. Re:huh? by ceejayoz · · Score: 1

      All the sites I've worked at just have a ghosted image of the default setup - something that would work just fine for a library or school setting. If there's a problem with a computer, just load the default image - quick fix. Hell, do it every couple months as a precautionary measure.

      And you're assuming "competent admins" in a public library with no dedicated IT staff - not very likely.

    5. Re:huh? by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Ghost images work fine if everyone is running essentially the same hardware. I challenge you to find a school environment where (outside of maybe a single lab that was donated at one time) you would find that to be true.

    6. Re:huh? by ceejayoz · · Score: 1

      Set the ghost images up with the basic Microsoft Plug'n'Play drivers that are the default for stuff that it can't find a driver for, and just run WindowsUpdate once when the ghost image is installed. Windows'll automatically download all the necessary drivers - whee, done.

    7. Re:huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Set the ghost images up with the basic Microsoft Plug'n'Play drivers that are the default for stuff that it can't find a driver for, and just run WindowsUpdate once when the ghost image is installed. Windows'll automatically download all the necessary drivers - whee, done. "

      Stick your finger way up that nose of yours and pull all the grey goo out. You're definately not using it, wheeee, done!@#

  3. hmm by honold · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    that's a tough one since most of the slashdot posters have already been accepted to college

  4. Are you patient? by doc_traig · · Score: 5, Interesting


    If you are, go to a retirement community and teach seniors how to use computers to access the Internet (mail and web). You will be bowled over by how thankful they are and how excited it makes some of them.

    --
    So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
    1. Re:Are you patient? by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      I can see the funeral now ...

      Rest in Peace Uncle Eddie.
      (whispers in the back)
      Ahem, do you have something to add, Mr /.?

      Yea, I was just saying too bad he died so soon in life, poor rascal almost had a firm grasp of the whole 'double click' vs 'single click' concept.

      -:-

      If you are going to teach, teach kids.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    2. Re:Are you patient? by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      On second thought ...

      Actually this would be a good idea if instead of trying to teach them computer literacy (which would be a waste) or surfing the web (another waste) .. give them (via technology) something nobody else can : EXPERIENCES.

      Everquest
      Flight Simulators (good ones)
      Pr0n - and not the tame stuff either, dig out your personal private reserve of the good stuff.
      NASCAR, including the Logitech wheel / pedals
      WWII based air combat sims

      Multi-Player with the other residents would be even better.

      You give them Word or Excel, who they going to write, what are they going to tabulate? Give them the interweb and they can see all the things they are missing out on, maybe get sad enough to slit their wrists. You give them experiences and let them live / relive a colorful vibrant experience and you can give them something noone else can, the give of life.

      And no twinking them in EQ just cause they are old, let them earn it. You let an old man that can't even get up and go to the bathroom by himself the ability to once again do things for himself, earn his way against hard rigors of life ... and end up with some hard earned victory - you have given him pride in himself. So what if nobody else understands it or appreciates it, he will.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    3. Re:Are you patient? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea and maybe you can get in their will too if you are really nice and they like you more than their own children. Or if they don't have any children of course.

    4. Re:Are you patient? by gunnk · · Score: 2

      If you are going to teach, teach kids.

      I *completely* disagree with you! To say that elderly individuals should not be taught due to their age is appalling. It's not just about giving people skills so that they can give us some sort of economic return later -- it's about improving quality of life. To allow elderly individuals that have little or no mobility to more fully take part in the larger community via the internet is to unshackle them from bodies that may have pretty much abandoned them. Maybe kids will learn more, maybe they'll take the knowledge further, but discarding our elderly as unworthy of learning is a travesty.


      --
      Life is short: void the warranty.
    5. Re:Are you patient? by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      I disagreed with me too - see the next post, from me, with the word 'experiences' in all caps.

      Then again if you are going to do the old people justice, don't bother trying to teach them anything - learn from them. Let them teach you, draw from their history, wisdom, experience and knowledge. It would be a LOT more rewarding to them at the end of the day to know that they passed on their knowledge and wisdom to someone that was going to carry it forward, than to learn how to surf the Internet. In sharing with you, they get to relive the good stuff of their life, remembered on their terms - much more valuable than anything they could get in a browser window.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  5. Non-profit organizations by ceri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look for non-profit organizations such as the local Food Bank, the American Heart Association, the Red Cross, or Junior Achievement.

    Even if these organizations don't need technical help, volunteer your time and encourage friends/coworkers to join you. It won't (or at least, it shouldn't) kill you to walk away from the computer world for a few hours a week.

  6. huh. by duck+'o+death · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know about where you live, but I know there's a lot of small non-profit/charity orgs in my neighbourhood (Eastern Canada) that already have some sort of net access. But what they *do* need is help in getting the best out of their often old hardware, or just getting it to work at all.

    I'm not talking classrooms (afaik most classrooms around here have access to *paid* staff of some sort, no?) but more like your local literacy council, small library, soup kitchen, women's shelter, yadda yadda ...

    They usually have the hardware. What they need is the (open) software, and the training. And then you've just made a difference in their operation, and their life.

    --
    Don't put salt in your eyes.
  7. be a warm body by ajrs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most service groups need bodies more than they PCs. If a problem with a tech fix presents its self, offer to solve it. You might even shudder have to support some windows apps. When a real problem that is best solved with open source software happens, you'll be on hand to do it.

    I'm doing some some office work for my church, and I set up a mysql database to make it easier. Nobody but me knows, or cares, that it takes half the time it did before.

  8. Find the smaller non-profits by pillohead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I found a small homeless youth advocate non-profit that needed a lot of computer help. Since they were small I spoke directly to the Executive Director and convinced her to let me solicit donations for old computers and fix em up. She even gave me a budget for a new computer when I explained I could use 1 server to power the desktop of all these old computers she had. Now they have 3 computers (soon to be six) running FreeBSD with no licensing costs that she can give access to these homeless kids. I networked up the whole place and setup their dsl and firewalled it with some other old computer. She couldn't be happier, but since I was a volunteer and I couldn't find work I had to move back to California to save money. I can do most administration tasks from here (thank god for ssh) but sometimes the dsl modem gets disconnected and I have to walk a kid there through ifconfig down, ifconfig up routine, bleh.

    The great thing about this is now that I'm moving back they can help me find work and an apartment since I'll be a homeless youth, YAY!

    1. Re:Find the smaller non-profits by sporktoast · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I found a small homeless youth advocate non-profit that needed a lot of computer help. Since they were small I spoke directly to the Executive Director and convinced her to let me solicit donations for old computers and fix em up. She even gave me a budget [...]
      This is exactly the sort of approach you should take, KReilly. Thinking "This year I have been considering creating my own non-profit organization, but I still lack a clear picture of what I hope to accomplish." is putting the cart before the horse. You wouldn't say "This year I have been considering applying for a patent, but I still lack a clear picture of what I hope to invent." Creating a non-profit *might* be a way to amp up an idea that you've already fleshed out, but you really do want to figure out that idea part first.

      Pillohead here has an idea that he has initiated (and one that you might consider emulating), and perhaps forming a non-profit to help it scale is the next level. Perhaps not.

      I've been employed by, contracted for, AND been on the board of directors of several non-profits. The ones who have consistently been the most successful are the ones that have a strong vision of what they want to accomplish.

      Take the time to figure out what kind of services you want to provide, and to whom. Sure, you have lots of skills, but which ones to you really want to use all the time? Would you rather build and maintain computers and networks for charities (like Pillohead's example)? Maybe you'd enjoy teaching elderly nursing home residents about accessing the internet? You mentioned "repairing computers donated by businesses for schools". If that's what you want to do, why not contact some existing non-profits who do similar work in other parts of the country, like CompuMentor or the Philadelphia Reuse Collaborative and ask them about what it takes to do what they do? You should also think about whether you want to be the one getting your hands dirty (string cable, swap boards, install software, teach users, etc.), or whether you want to be the visionary who is in charge of everything like an Executive Director or Board Member (write by-laws and policies, do grantwriting and other fundraising, maintain press contacts, etc.).

      As to your last question " how do you, as a tech, give back to society and aid in social programs?", what *I personally* do is work as a consultant for non-profits and give them whatever kind of computer help they need that I have the skills for. I charge slightly less than the going rate because I know their budgets are not large. Often I do some small amount of work first in a volunteer capacity. This allows me to create good will and familiarity between us, and lets me understand more about their needs and how my skills might or might not fit. I tend to lean toward social justice issuses, so my local Community Shares federation has been a terrific starting point for finding organizations that could use my help.

      --
      In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
  9. Check with CityCares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    CityCares specializes in matching volunteers with local opportunities. Check their website for links to your local CityCares affiliate.

  10. Simple by Ratbert42 · · Score: 1
    how do you, as a tech, give back to society and aid in social programs?

    I try to stay employed and pay my taxes. Seriously. That's it. I've done the giving back bit and I got sick of the waste, people working the system, watching my organizations get ripped off (how desperate do you have to be to steal from a church or a volunteer organization?) and especially the inevitable volunteer vs. paid staff battles.

    The only other thing I do today is help with the kids at my church, but that's because I can't stand being around their parents. Fsck people. They suck.

    1. Re:Simple by renehollan · · Score: 1
      I try to stay employed and pay my taxes. Seriously. That's it. I've done the giving back bit

      No, you haven't. Taxes are an obligation, not a charitable donation. You owe this money.

      While I understand your point, since some portion of taxes are supposedly directed to help the less fortunate, because their payment is required, the principle is effectively, "You owe those who earn less than you simply because you earn more".

      That is not charity, that is theft.

      Charity comes from a desire to help others when one has the option not to.

      I got sick of the waste, people working the system.

      I have found that well run charities are far more effective in helping the truely needy, and weeding out freeloaders, than are governments.

      Furthermore, with a high tax burden, people can not afford to be as charitable as they otherwise might be: "Fuck you, I paid my taxes!" becomes the sentiment du jure. Whether those tax dollars were, in some part, used effectively to help the destitute does not matter -- you paid them.

      If someone stops you on the street, and demands "Gimme your money... those people are poor!" handing over one's wallet might be prudent, but there is no guarantee the "poor" will be better off and a certainty that you are now in less of a position to help them. The proper and moral response is to educate the would-be thief with the business end of a firearm. And so it is with government, and then, perhaps, find those poor, and hand your wallet over to them, if you feel so inclined.

      The only thing that government handouts to the poor does is encourage more people to be "poor".

      You may, of course, object to this obviously libertarian stance: state force certainly has the potential to better guarantee wealth redistribution, and you might think that this actually happens and should happen. But if the state is truely interested in helping the poor, why is there no government that offers a 100% credit (not deduction) on some portion of taxes "owed" (i.e. that portion above which you paid for the state services you received), if it were given to a registered charity?

      IOW, if I earn $75,000, and pay $25,000 in taxes (typical in Canada, for example), and consume $10,000 in state services, I should be free to pay $10,000 tax and donate $15,000 to charity and come out as if I had paid the total in taxes. Of course, this does not happen: the $15,000 is simply deducted from income, and, at a 40% marginal tax rate, my tax burden is reduced by $6,000. Lesse, $15,000-$6,000=$9,000 that I am worse off by helping the poor as much as the state says I should.

      This example is a bit contrived, and the numbers are approximations (marginal tax rates on $60k and $75k are likely different), but the principle is sound, and I think the gentle reader "gets it".

      In conclusion, "paying your taxes" is about the least efficient way of helping the poor, though it is probably the most convenient way to feel good, while thinking you did.

      --
      You could've hired me.
    2. Re:Simple by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Well we could rephrase that a little.

      If 60% of my income wasn't being STOLEN in the form of taxes, I could probably afford to give a lot more to charity. How's that?

    3. Re:Simple by renehollan · · Score: 1
      If 60% of my income wasn't being STOLEN in the form of taxes, I could probably afford to give a lot more to charity. How's that?

      BRAVO!

      Unfortunately, so many think that paying their "fair share" of taxes means that the collection of taxes is somehow legitimate, and not theft. Arguing against this on principle will prove difficult.

      Therefore, to get people to wake up and see the lie, one has to attack the system by exposing it's hypocricy. Then perhaps, the moral bancruptcy can be exposed as well.

      But, again, a big Bravo! to you for "getting it".

      --
      You could've hired me.
  11. CEO says do it or no raise.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    At work, they made it mandatory that every employee do some sort of community charity event. They even pay for the day you are off working for charity. (Unless you are Salary, and you just loose your day off)... They also tied it to the performance and yearly raise, so it was basically required.

    Not bad enough, your sys-admins work 60 hours a week, have no life, and get to spend 1 day with the wife and kiddies, they have to spend their day off ripping out bushes at a fish spawning lake, so some CEO gets to brag that his company did 40,000 hours of community service.

    How about giving back to the familys that work all services that run this country, and let the kids spend time with the parents. Now 55 hour work weeks are becoming the norm and then salary pay to help state budget crunches.

    Ok, after that long rant about how it sux for some people. You can use this to your advantage, CEO's are looking for people and projects. You might want to start talking to the Business community and community leaders on ways to help, and projects they might want to Fund and run.

  12. How can techies give back? by Mawbid · · Score: 1

    I'm more interested in how techies can get some in the first place :-)

    --
    Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
  13. Volunteer with NPower by gokubi · · Score: 3, Informative

    I work for NPower, a nonprofit that works with other nonprofits to help them use technology. We do all sorts of things around technology: training, planning, building networks, building applications--all at heavily subsidized rates.

    We also match volunteers with nonprofits that need help and don't want/can't pay consulting rates.

    I don't know where you are, but there are 9 NPowers nationwide [check our site] plus a number of "sister" organizations of ours do similar work in cities we don't have a presence in, like Compumentor in San Francisco.

    Check us out. Also check out N-TEN, a national membership organization of nonprofit technical assistance providers.

    --
    I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber.
    1. Re:Volunteer with NPower by kylv · · Score: 1

      I also work for a non-profit organization called Technology Access Foundation. We teach computer and job skills to high school students of color in the Seattle area.

      We're always looking for teaching assistants to lend a few hours a day to help with classes. It certainly helps if they have techinical backgrounds as our classes cover HTML, VB, ASP, and Networking.

      If you're in the Seattle area, and want to volunteer please check out the website.

    2. Re:Volunteer with NPower by b!arg · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was going to suggest NPower, but there also some decent websites out there that list opportunities. Two of note that I know of are www.volunteermatch.org and www.idealist.org. I'm working on a volunteer project that I found on the latter.

      If you are in a U.S. city there is probably also a non-profit organization that essentially finds volunteers for other non-profits. Here in Seattle it is called Seattle Works and there are a bunch of them throughout the U.S. that are all related. They are a good source for volunteer opportunites of any kind. Good luck and godspeed.

      --

      Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful
  14. Given the nature of the tech industry by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 3, Funny

    How about give back to your less well-todo brothers.

    1. Buy raman noodles and mountain dew.
    2. Donate to someone at the local lug.
    3. Nonprofit!

    --
    Everything will be taken away from you.
  15. Consider creating a company. by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If in the US, jobs are disappearing at a frightening rate, esp techie jobs. Consider the idea of creating a for-profit company that create jobs. Then use some of that profit to help drive the non-profit.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Consider creating a company. by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      This is about the smartest thing I have heard all day. I used to wonder about CEO's and VP's that roll up their sleeves on a hot and dusty Saturday afternoon mowing the church yard and cooking soup for the homeless.

      Lets see here, use some pretend numbers and see where they lead us :

      CEO earns $1M a year - that is about $500 an hour.
      VP earns $200,000 a year, about $100 an hour.

      Instead of spending 8 hours a month (2 hours each Saturday) doing menial labor, pool 8 hours worth of salary each for a total of $4,800 per month and offer that up to the real menial labor crowd at $7.50 an hour (casual labor / cash for labor) ... that is enough to pay four people to work 40 hours per week every week of the month, or have a small army of 20 workers there 8 hours every Saturday.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    2. Re:Consider creating a company. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      You got it. I use to tutor and teach for fun, but at this point, if I can help create jobs, then that is more useful. Sad though. Personally, I am working on 2 companies (actually I work at a start-up and am doing a start-up). If all goes well, both will need new techies by the end of august. I just wish more techies would work towards that.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  16. how about really bridging the digital divide by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hate to get on my soapbox, but this is Slashdot and it's a slow article. Incidentally, the first half of my post is a relevant rant and the second half is my deduced idea. Ever in the Slashdot tradition, I delimit my rant in non-W3C compliant XML for all of you.

    /
    I'm one of the many dot com layoffs. I returned to school to finish my degree. In doing so, I've been getting by as a contract programmer. It's not stable so I've had to pick up some side work. However, most non-tech businesses won't even touch me. Ever try getting a job at a wal-mart when your last salary was twice the store manager. I tend to water down my background on those applications, but they won't even look at me. So, I've been working some pretty ugly labor-intensive temp work. My co-workers (and bosses) are severely uneducated. I'm not trying to be arrogant. It's just a fact. A couple of them are quite bright, but they never applied themselves.

    For instance, one coworker who I've become friends with is a perfect example. He has quite a bit of street smarts. I think he has a lot of potential. He even had a chance to go to college on a football scholarship. However, he somehow has it pounded into his head that school is impractical or completely unnecessary. (Of course given the state of urban American high schools.....) All of his plans are nothing but a bunch of get rich quick schemes. They also have a fair amount of holes in them as well. I think he also had trouble in school. However, he's been taking classes at a local community college and his grades have vastly improved.

    I'm pretty much a self-taught kind of guy. On the one hand, I think college is somewhat just a piece of paper. However, I realize the relevance of that paper in attaining a job. It's an unfortunate but necessary certification. We live in an age of watered down and proliferated certification. On the other hand, I'm probably more self-educated that the average person. When I was younger I spent quite a bit time acquiring books (on the cheap) on everything from computers, mathematics, physics, etc. I didn't even own a computer as a kid and had a bit of a steep learning curve in my first CS course.
    I can only imagine the digital divide is even worse. The guy I mentioned earlier wants to learn about computers. So I'm plan on helping him set up a home network with some older PCs I'm picking up at a local surplus auction. I'll introduce him to Linux. Maybe I even try to get him to learn a little about electronics and build a radio. Even if he doesn't plan to study CS, Math, or EE etc, hopefully he'll gain some insight in how to solve problems and think in a more analytical way. Hopefully he'll pick up a few job skills as well.
    /

    Here's my idea. Try finding a community center and teach a class in programming or networking. Not a stupid intro to the web/HTML class. Offer a serious course. Get the students to open up a few machines. Set up a LAN. Throw a LAN party at the end [run Quake if the machines are too old]. Trust me, if you go to a real inner city neighborhood, they probably won't own high-end PCs anyway. Most colleges and gov't agencies sell old PCs in bulk at low rates. DON'T TEACH TO THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. Try the Feynman approach. Make it challenging and throw hooks that will catch the interest of your listeners. Raise the standards of the students. Sure, some will get bored, confused, or drop out. However, there will be those one or two students who will get hooked. This is why public schools SUCK in this country. Always lowering the standards to meet the needs of the worst students. Apparently the average EdD hasn't hard of Zeno's Paradox. Let's reduce our education to an infinitesimal level. Great idea!! Anyway, personally I'd love to design a GPL type collection of books to introduce CS.

    --
    What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
    1. Re:how about really bridging the digital divide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Anyway, personally I'd love to design a GPL type collection of books to introduce CS.
      Check here for free books of all types. There is a heavy focus on computer stuff. Only a handful are copylefted (the ones with the wheat basket next to the title), but some of them might fit the bill.

      Personally, I think working on open books like these are an excellent way to "give back."
  17. Passing up donations by green+pizza · · Score: 1

    I have read about communities wiring classrooms for the internet in California, and repairing computers donated by businesses for schools. I would like to do this, but find many schools and libraries would deny this donation since its maintenance would be too big of an investment

    You'll see a lot of this, I'm afraid. It's not just the maintenance issue either... schools have to find room for the new machines, their already-overloaded air conditioning systems (in the south) have to handle the increased heat, the network cabling has to meet local fire and safety codes, their insurance company may have issues with the use of used/rebuilt PCs provided by a non-certified source, etc.

    1. Re:Passing up donations by blisspix · · Score: 1

      Actually one of the other main reasons for knockbacks is that a very large number of libraries already receive PCs through grants/donations etc. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation provides lots of computers with all the software too so they don't need to look elsewhere (anti-Windows feelings aside, it helps a lot of communities).

      The other issue that that those libraries that don't get computers this way get them via sponsorship arrangements or commercial deals with computer vendors. It's a stupid arrangement, and one that should stop, because it is stifling a lot of innovation in the library software sector IMHO.

      And you're right about the storage issue, this is the main reason why book donations get knocked back frequently, too.

  18. I just realized that slashdot parsed my XML by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 1

    Sorry!

    --
    What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
  19. Orgs that want geeks by cognomen · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I got an email about this place:

    NGP Software

    that said they're looking for programming interns to build a database for Democrats who want to fundraise. Mostly when I hear about tech help needed from anyone doing something social or political, it's pretty small-scale stuff, but these guys look like a big, interesting operation. I assume there are similar orgs. serving other major political parties.

    Also, Geekcorps has always looked like a great bunch, if you want to go overseas.

    Finally, you mentioned libraries. I volunteered for quite a while just training people to use computers & the internet a few years back. Libraries may be more willing to accept volunteer labor to run community education classes than for stuff like wiring, because the education volunteers aren't giving something with an on-going support cost.

    Or, you could always do what I did...decide that programming just doesn't offer the opportunities for volunteer work that you want from your career, and then go to law school (law school being the absolute least pleasant experience under the sun, AFAICT) ;-).

    Good Luck.

  20. Computers for Students. by UnifiedTechs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I work at a public High School and turn down many donations for computers, the main reason being they are too old, I can't talk about all school systems but anything I am offered is usually much worse then what I currently have and will not support the software I am running.

    That said one thing we have looked at is repairing the computers we ourselves throw away and giving them to needy students. Our main hurdle has been finding the manpower to do this. Try contacting local schools and see if any are trying to do something similar, Or just ask them what they think you can do. Asking is alot easyer and more productive then trying to quess what you can do for them.

  21. Write software by Tom7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I'm not a tech, but one way you can benefit society is to put your skills to work and write a free replacement for some needed piece of software. It's the kind of thing that not many people can do, and, since your work can be copied by millions of people once it's written without much extra work, it has the potential to have a great impact.

    If you're interested in helping society at a different level, you could volunteer to make or maintain a web page for some community organization that you support.

    1. Re:Write software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you could also release the source code to your creation as well. That would allow other people to modify it to suit their own needs. So in a way, this would be "free" software.

      Imagine what thousands of people working together could create! Perhaps even a replacement for windows itself...

  22. Other Organizations. by Alexius · · Score: 1

    I work with a charity organization called Promise Of Iris - Pagan Outreach. I'd recommend looking outside of the tech industry, since while there are a few options looking for geeks, there are lots of other organizations desperately in need of one. How many smaller scale Non-Profit groups do you know that could use someone to set up their web server?

    --
    `Lex - Find Me Here: Text Appeal
  23. United Way by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Consider looking into the local branch of the United Way. Here in Minneapolis they run a volunteer needed column in the paper and I just checked they had at least 9 positions open looking for techies in Minneapolis/St. Paul. The cool part about the United Way is that they are a roll up of many different organizations. You can easily find one that you like and work with them. Hmmm...a place needs a database developer...might have to give them a call

    Also look for something like this - Volunteer Twin Cities in your neck of the woods.

    -Seraphim

    --
    Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
  24. have a sense of humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    jesus christ mods

  25. Teach! by Jellybob · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you're in the UK (since I'm talking in general here, rather than specifically for the OP), then find your nearest UK Online or Learn Direct centre, and ask what they need help with... in all liklyhood, they *will* need help.

    I work in one as their sysadmin, and we're constantly looking for people either to maintain the machines here (I'm not full time), or do one to one teaching of the clients in everything from using a mouse, to database design.

    It's a great thing for yourself as well... when I started here I assumed I'd just be doing sysadmin, but because people know me, they'll ask me how to do things - and it's turned out to be the best part of the job, since I get the satisfaction of someone knowing something they didn't before.

  26. Find something useful first by bluGill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe I'm a cynic, but when someone days computers in the classroom I respond with why. Nobody has given an answer to that. Classrooms are for learning, and computers are a tool. A computer in every classroom makes as much sense as a hammer in every classroom. A hammer is a useful tool, and your education is incomplete if you don't take one shop class where you use one (in todays world you shouldn't spend much time with it, but shop is at just as important as art, music, and home ecconomics classes - give everyone a basic introduction to the subject and let those who like it take more), but there is no place for a hammer in many classrooms. A computer lab is useful. Perhaps several, because there are useful things to do with a computer in school, and some teachers will require many papers written on the computer.

    So your first task is to ask why when you have an idea.

    As for ideas: that is up to you. I recomend you stay away from things that need your day job skills. You don't want to get burnt out on the day job. Obviously if things are going to be wired for computers it takes an expert, but try not to burn yourself out.

    How about orginizing your local parade, or town days. These commities need a lot of help, and you get to meet people in the comunity useful to know. Is there an orginization that you support? Ducks unlimited is my favorite, but there is also the EFF, which gets more press on slashdot. As a kid I was in 4-H, and they need help all the time, what groups where you in as a kid? How about local parks? Not the playground, (they might or might not get all the help they need from local taxes), but the state and federal parks that maybe nearby, which generally need more help than they get.

    1. Re:Find something useful first by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Maybe I'm a cynic, but when someone days computers in the classroom I respond with why. Nobody has given an answer to that. Classrooms are for learning, and computers are a tool. A computer in every classroom makes as much sense as a hammer in every classroom. A hammer is a useful tool, and your education is incomplete if you don't take one shop class where you use one (in todays world you shouldn't spend much time with it, but shop is at just as important as art, music, and home ecconomics classes - give everyone a basic introduction to the subject and let those who like it take more), but there is no place for a hammer in many classrooms.
      Have you read Cliff Stoll's Silicon Snake Oil? Though its a bit dated now, it asks these same questions.
    2. Re:Find something useful first by blisspix · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      When governments are happy to throw money at computers in classrooms but refuse to increase salaries for teachers you have to ask 'what's wrong here?'.

      I'm sure that in a decade or so we'll find out that kids who grew up with computers from day 1 will not have the writing, comprehension and reading skills that those who grew up without did.

      Computers are needed in schools, but yes you're right, they should be in a lab.

    3. Re:Find something useful first by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Giving teachers a raise is not proven to increase quality of teaching. (There is in fact a small number of bad teachers who will stay in teaching if their wage goes up, but some good teachers who will leave if they get more money elsewhere)

      The first clue of how good someone will do in school is at home. Parents that don't care about their kids end up with kids that fail, while parents that care end up with kids that pass. In general of course - we can all think of exceptions of the best familys turning out rotten kids, and the reverse, but in general family is the best indicater I know of to success in school)

      The other problem with looking at computers as teachers saleries is that a computer is a one time purchase. In the dot.com boom of a few years back most schools had more money, by spending it on computers and the like they have that equipment to get through the lean years, those who increased saleries now have to pay teachers more.

      Teacher saleries vary from place to place. I live in an area where they make more than average (not that they are getting rich, but more than average), while in other states they make far less than average.

      I think the best thing a school can do to improving teaching is to eliminate tenure for all teachers. Tenure makes sense for professors who need a few years to research a complex part of their field before publishing. In grade school and high school they don't need that. I can (as everyone else) recall several teachers who could not teach, but the school did nothing to get rid of them. Teachers who could teach didn't get raises any faster. (admitidly this isn't a path we want to go down without thought, otherwise students will be taught to pass a test so the teacher gets a raise and not what the course is really trying to teach)

    4. Re:Find something useful first by t0qer · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm a cynic, but when someone days computers in the classroom I respond
      with why.

      Maybe I'm a cynic, but when someone says books in the classroom I respond with
      why. Nobody has given an answer to that. Classrooms are for learning, and books
      are a tool. A book in every classroom makes as much sense as a hammer in every
      classroom. A hammer is a useful tool, and your education is incomplete if you
      don't take one shop class where you use one (in today's world you shouldn't
      spend much time with it, but shop is at just as important as art, music, and
      home economics classes - give everyone a basic introduction to the subject and
      let those who like it take more), but there is no place for a hammer in many
      classrooms. A book lab is useful. Perhaps several, because there are useful
      things to do with a book in school, and some teachers will require many papers
      written on the book.

      You could have changed the word Computers with widgets or just about any
      other noun of your choosing.

      Why do we need books when we could just use stone slabs and chisels? I'll point
      out a bunch of reasons for computers in the school, could be a bit longwinded
      but I'll keep it to the top 10...

      10. Books (or publishing them) is very expensive. I've seen a lot of professors
      sell their own books as part of the class requirements at a low enough price
      to just break even. Everyone knows that publishing an electronic document costs
      next to nothing.

      9. Availability. If the book is on the net and costs $0 to reproduce, then
      essentially it becomes available to everyone, and not just those that can afford
      it.

      8. Computers are at the impulse buy price now. Impulse buy is a term used by
      marketing types to described the lowest price a person will just say Fuck it, I
      want it and purchase it. I believe that price is around $300USD right now.

      7. Input device evolution. Sure handwriting will always be used, but since we
      WILL evolve our computers to handwriting recognition and voice recognition in
      the next coming years the prospect of using electronic paper over real in
      classrooms to reduce cost is very real.

      6. Remote/Home study. Why should students in remote locations or poverty
      stricken nations be forced to deal with a lower quality education? We've had a
      bunch of
      articles on slash about wirelessly setting up remote villages. This
      point actually fits in with the articles question... What can I do as a
      benevolent geek? If you like 3rd world countries (personally I'm too much
      of a priss to enjoy the nitty gritty ones), speak their foreign language, then
      shoot for something like this.

      5. Better PTA. One of the major problems with American schools today is
      the lack of a PTA body. With both parents working full time jobs to
      support the family there's hardly time anymore for them to keep in touch with
      their Childs teacher. I think teachers AND parents should develop their
      net-fu ninjitsu skilz to keep in touch on their Childs progress.

      4. Remote monitoring and safety. Bullying has been a hot topic on
      slash. God how many times I would have loved too have caught some of my
      bullies on tape. I think in regards to violent school behavior, the
      mentality of it needs to be changed from Oh he's big and can beat up smaller
      people to What a shameful violent bully, only a Neanderthal would behave that
      way. It's sort of a weird concept to express, but if my kid said So and
      so picked on me at 2:14 at the south quad I think I should be able to look up
      that camera location to present my complaint to the school. Education
      institutions should promote personal growth, not fear.

      3. Setting up the next generation. In 1910 we had the industrial revolution,
      they learned how to machine things and work with tools. 1940's-50 better
      metallurgy techniques brought us precision

    5. Re:Find something useful first by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Mostly good points, but a few nits:

      Everyone knows that publishing an electronic document costs next to nothing. and Availability. If the book is on the net and costs $0 to reproduce, then essentially it becomes available to everyone, and not just those that can afford it. Reproduction costs nothing, but editing still costs. Nobody would publish my works on slashdot on paper. The grammer and spelling are too horrid for that. However it seems that anyone would publish and read them electronicly. Editors cost money. Authors mostly want to be paid. (Professors are paid by the school, so that isn't an issue with books they write, but it is an issue for other authors) Sure some of it will be done for free, but that overheard needs to be paid.

      Most quarters my entire book bill was $200, less than the cost of a computer, and I sold many books back, so overall the cost was more like $100. A computer (which realisticly is more than the $300 you quoted) would need to last a long time to make that up compared to books, which in many public schools are expected to last 5-10 years!.

      Books are more portable than a computer. I always had the right to take my text books home. Is the school going to provide a computer to every poor student who can't afford one? Don't forget that books are relativly robust, drop a book and it almost always survives. A book will survive warmer tempature than a computer. School kids still destroy a lot of books faster than normal wear and tear.

      Re-read your word substituion. Books fit gramaticly, but the word itself has meaning, and that meaning in the contect of a classroom makes your substituion less valid. Sure there are classrooms where you don't need books. (In shop and home ecc we had books, and I saw it maybe 3 days in the entire semester, because as a tool they were useless there) In the majority of classrooms books are the best tool for the job of suplimenting the teachers ability to educate us. (those exceptions prove my point, but distract from it)

  27. going about it wrong by mike77 · · Score: 2

    I think you're too involved in "the big picture". Being involved in social causes, when all said and done, comes down to a single person, doing something, giving something, helping out someone who needs it. you don't have to do something grandoise. Pick a local school, offer them your services free of charge to set up and maintain (administer) a computer lab, or teach an afterschool program for the kids, or hell, do that at the YMCA or something. you don't have to get famous or well known, just do something that makes a difference to someone, just find someone in need and help 'em out.

    --

    --Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time

  28. Counseling by MacBrave · · Score: 1

    I do Merit Badge counseling for the Boy Scout Troops in my area. Specifically, the Computers merit badge.

  29. Teach Teach Teach! by CokoBWare · · Score: 1

    One of the most rewarding ways I have given back to my hometown is to teach seminars to students learning computer technology. You coordinate with the instructors of the course or class, and you prepare a 2 hour presentation and invite as many students that can fill an auditorium. Teach something cool that you know about that students can relate too. Maybe it will be related to their specific field of study. I teach web development practices, and it is usually well received. It's a bit of work to prepare (4-5 preparatory hours for every 1 hour of presentation), but it's very rewarding.

  30. School Districts by Door-opening+Fascist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Over the summer, I did volunteer work for a school district. I started off helping them clean their ~1500 client machines, spread between over 25 buildings. Once that was done, they let me observe/work at one of their new schools, which was being re-modelled. I learned a lot about pulling cable there. Volunteering isn't just about giving....

  31. We have this thing called by Linux_ho · · Score: 1

    Open Source Software. Many of us here at Slashdot think writing Open Source Software is a great way to give back to the community. Welcome to Slashdot, friend. Perhaps I can show you around the YRO section, too? Ooo! watch out for the trolls!

    --
    include $sig;
    1;
  32. Utilize your skillset by primetyme · · Score: 1
    First and foremost, have a clear picture of what you're hoping to accomplish before even thinking about starting a NFP. I've seen a lot of people who have excitement like you and want to help out, but get hung up on being an NFP, which is a bit horse before the carriage IMO.

    Second, figure out what you do best (it sounds like hardware) and find existing local organizations so you can meet like minded people in your area and share ideas/resources. If you don't have anyone doing similar things in your area, check out geekcorps, or ask your local chamber of commerce/rotary club/county outreach program for information about what you can do to help.

    Lastly, you should join up with exisiting similar programs if possible. Chances are they've got a lot of the ground work laid already, you'll get to meet and network with people who are trying to help the same way you are, and besides, there's no use re-inventing the wheel.

  33. Adopt a non-profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Find a worthy non-profit and be their tech support. They're dying for this kind of help.

    http://www.volunteermatch.org/ is a great site for hooking up with organizations that need help.

    http://www.techsoup.com/ caters to non-profits and their message boards are a great place to offer your services.

    Now that the URLs are out of the way, I only have one big piece of advice: commit yourself. If you want to volunteer at an organization in a technical capacity, commit yourself to the long haul, i.e. years, and understand that you're going to be spending most of your time working on the mundane tasks: printer problems, lost emails, etc.

    Most volunteers quit when they have the bitter realization that, no, they won't be padding their web-design portfolio or, gasp, they start getting a flood of tech support questions. Remember, the non-profit will suffer by your lack of follow-through. So, stick with it; you'll find it to be a very rewarding experience.

  34. Give Back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Open an Internet Cafe that specializes in pornography. Happy hour is 11:00 AM - 1:00 PM. Free access to several porn sites are given.

    Hold a raffle at noon. The winner is allowed to engage in open sex with the best looking prostitute in the cafe.

  35. Help out Newbs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could always hover around a few irc rooms in freenode, etc and help out newbs interested in breaking into linux/programming/computing in general.

    Often times geeks are so unfriendly it's tremendously difficult to be able to get help from real people. Sometimes you've read the manual already, and you just can't figure out a simple idea. Explain it. Spend a few hours idling around, helping newbs compile apps, help newbs write apps, help newbs get into linux.

    It's frustrating breaking into a world of people who go "RTFM, N00B!" or who refuse to even point you to documentation. Change it! Best of luck...

  36. Just build systems by Gherald · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Over the years I've slapped together a good number of computers from semi-obsolete parts businesses get rid of (think Pentium IIs, Celeron 533mhz's, etc).

    To which I'll add a $20 Geforce MX, slap on a pirated version of XP, install a few games like the Sims, Fifa Soccer, Putt-Putt.. and lots and lots of educational software.

    I used to also load MS Office but I've been finding that OOo is good enough that I may just go with that in the future.

    I'll harden the system as much as possible.. install all the latest patches, configure automatic updating, remove all traces of Outlook, etc. I used to load a cracked version of Eudora pro but Thunderbird is good enough that I will typically put that on now.

    I freely give these systems out to underprivelaged families living in and around local slum. Not sure whether you would call this "giving back," but it helps keep kids out of trouble and gives them something productive to do.

    1. Re:Just build systems by upplepop · · Score: 1

      It will keep the kids out of trouble until the feds come busting through the door and busting them for having a sh*t load of pirated/illegal software! Come on, use Linux and some open source or free software. There's quality free stuff out there; check out the Knoppix Linux distribution.

    2. Re:Just build systems by Gherald · · Score: 1

      Oh please, the feds have much better things to do than bust people on welfare for copyright infringement.

      I love the quality free stuff, its improving greatly. But I just don't have time to configure/support it for this many users.

  37. If you want to give back, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    grab a hold of old Pentium 1, 486 and 386 computers that nobody wants and save them from the rubbish dump. If you can find a use for them, you will have done alot to save money, the environment, taught teenagers more about computers than they'll ever learn from a modern one (if u can put together a working 486 from parts, you can do anything with computer hardware as so far as I'm concerned), and helped people who wouldn't otherwise have a computer.

  38. some suggestions by dan_bethe · · Score: 3, Informative
    • GeekCorps for international stuff
    • TechCorps for American stuff (maybe just California, I don't remember)
    • VolunteerMatch to find all volunteer opportunities around the world, some even virtual over the Internet
  39. Churches need good techs by Pan+Solo · · Score: 1

    I'm a day away from finishing an internship at a local church, after which I head off to college. Yes, I got paid, so it wasn't necessarily volunteerwork, but churches have a surprising need for computers and technological services. Any help you can offer, be it Sundays or after school, I'm sure they'd love it. Certainly did here. :-)

    -JP

  40. Real communities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a techie, I've spent countless hours setting up virtural communities. Now though as a way to give back to the community I'm working with my real community setting up an online presence that all of my neighbors can use to exchange information about city council meetings, park rules, road work information in the neighborhood... The stupid crap that would normally be on a physical bulletin board, but due to the size of my neighborhood (we're talking about 2 square miles in the heart of midtown Atlanta) simply isn't workable in the traditional manner.

    It's kinda funny. After setting up so many communities for people who will never see each other, it's an odd feeling to do it for people who live nearby and you see everyday. We are actually in the process of setting it up to track local council decisions and upcoming votes and the like. It's nice having a history of those votes publicly available and commentable.

  41. Got two hands, two feet? by csoto · · Score: 0

    Join your local Habitat for Humanity and sweat a bit! Heck, they'll take you even if you don't have the above listed items.

    Nothing makes you forget about tech crap than good, hard labor...

    --
    There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
  42. Websites are the answer... by gooru · · Score: 1

    If you have skills with databases, webapp programming, web design, server administration, then volunteer your time towards running websites. Practically every organization either has or wants a website. They don't even need to be something that's tech-related.

    Besides, you should probably branch out and find some other interests while you're at it. Running a website for something not techie is a great way to do it.

  43. Diskless PCs cost less! by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

    I dare you to make a diskless windows client without paying out of your as for the software and hardware. I can put the linux kernel onto a network floppy image and have machines remotely mount '/' via NFS. Whe I upgrade software on the server it immediately hits all the clients, because they share the same file system. Can't do that in windows, and thats one hard disk that's never going to fail for each machine, and TENS of O.S. reloads over it's lifetime.

    Imagine how easy PC support would be if you never had to:
    *install patches more than once
    *reload/reconfigure the OS
    *repair dead hard drives

    One person could replace a team of twenty in most businesses and school departments.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  44. do not start a NFP by blisspix · · Score: 1

    If you don't even know what you'd do with a NFP, steer clear of the rocks and do NOT do it. The world does not need another NFP. The more that are created for a similar cause, the smaller the pool of volunteers and money are. It makes it very difficult to be successful.

    Remember that volunteering is not about getting recognition for doing good deads, or a pat on the back. You'll get to meet new people, and learn new skills, and sometimes it will suck and sometimes it will be really rewarding. But also, don't just do it because you feel obligated. I recently met with a library to volunteer to teach database skills, but I really didn't feel like I fitted in there. It is ok to say no to a group if you don't feel like the experience will be mutually rewarding.

    An idea you may not have thought of... why not help out a local public radio station? They are always in need of computers and technical help.

  45. Do your job by jazman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Um, not sure why you think doing your job isn't contributing to society. You're paying taxes, you're not sponging, you're doing something useful to someone, and your spare cash is pushing the economy along as you spend it. You want to contribute to society - do your job well, get pay rises etc.

    So you're a student. Getting an education, even if it's at the country's expense, *is* giving to society. Instead of leaving and sponging, you're seeking to improve your skills, and thus eventually be able to do the above even better. Most societies, if not all, recognise the value of education and know the future lies in that route, even if it does cost a lot of tax$$$. Not educating people has a much greater impact on a society than educating people at that same society's expense. If you really feel you must do volunteer work as well, make sure your first, second, third and fourth priorities are your education and that you cannot possibly do better, then and ONLY then look to do a few hours outside that. You probably have a lot of homework - excel at that, then you can do the volunteer stuff when you're doing a 9-5. Don't underestimate the value of idle time - you need time to recover so that you can do your top priority best.

    1. Re:Do your job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read this and had to laugh, at least in my country, the united states --

      it never seems that we recognize the value of our education in the general. I can say this is certainly true having recently left the extremely poor public school system of California. On the other hand, I entered the University of California system....which coming from our public schools really was a big change. Although even we are being hit by budget cutbacks which I sense probably could not have been averted.

      And of course, the obligatory "BSD is not dying!" shout out :) Gotta represent, you know...it was made here ;) and yet we run solaris :(

  46. Consider Tech Consulting or Web/Database Aid by Valejo · · Score: 1

    At my University, there are two service organizations that take advantage of my technology skills. There is a consulting club on campus that provides free consulting to non-profit and student organizations. As a technology consultant, I help groups decide what sort of solutions would be best for them and then help implement the solutions. Another organization designs Web sites for organizations that otherwise don't have the resources to build them. We provide free hosting, design, and, depending on the project, we teach the organization how to update their site. Of course, these organizations are made possible with the university's budget.

  47. The problem w/ charities is........ by xclr8r · · Score: 1

    The problem with Charities is theres too darn many of them. I should elaborate before I get berated. I think that hollywood/sports stars have too many foundations. Instead of helping an existing foundation they put together there own. I'm sure there is some tax write off involved as well. Don't get me wrong if a Star sheds light on a new issue that needs recognition by all means make a foundation but don't create Joe Bazooka's Cancer foundation when there is already an American Cancer foundation. - I digress and shall await my verbal/written lashings.

    --
    Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
  48. How can techies give back? by sameyeam · · Score: 1

    I've been working as a volunteer at my local volunteer bureau doing bits of web-design, leaflets, forms & stationary that kind of thing for the local charities and voluntary organisations the bureau's in contact with.

  49. no single raindrop... by chocolatetrumpet · · Score: 1

    No single raindrop thinks it is responsible for the flood...

    in a good way... heh.

    No single electron thinks it is responsible for the power?

    --
    Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.