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Making Quieter Highways
An anonymous reader writes "Researchers at Purdue are investigating ways to make life for those who live near major highways more quiet. They have found that most of the noise is literally where the rubber hits the road, not engine noise or even passing winds. The team has come up with a new form of pavement that is in testing in Arizona and will soon be installed in California. The pavement is simply asphalt with some mixed in rubber."
How will this affect stopping distance? Probably better. But ill bet it dosent last nearly as long as regular pavement.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
I lived next to Interstate number 5 last year, and it was like a constant dull roar coming in through the windows. After living for years in the quiet peace of Alaska, it was quite a shock.
If all the noise is from the rubber hitting the road. We need magnetic cars!
no thanks
They tear up the roads and lay down new pavement every nine months or so anyway, right? Might as well make it quieter when they aren't working on it.
Alex.
Now I'm not saying it's the same stuff, but is it really a new finding that it is the tire/road contact that's noisy when this was done at least 6 years ago?
the pavement is simply asphalt with some mixed in rubber
Disposing of tires by making them into roads has been a dream for recyclers and probably the tire industry, but last I heard they had some major problems with galvanic reactions from the ground-up radial belts.
Does anybody know if they've solved that problem?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
This should make construction companies happy, as they find a new reason to tear up streets just to lay down new asphault. Of course, knowing how New York City works, someone will notice 2 mos after the 4 year project is complete (of course over budget), that the 'new' asphault is actually the old asphault... Such is life.
A similar compound was invented in the Netherlands ages ago, using concrete (cheaper and easier to handle then rubber). It is called ZOAB ("Zeer Open Asfalt Beton", meaning "Very Open Asphalt Concrete") This highly porous material has several beneficial properties, such as being more quiet, and more efficient in draining water, thus preventing aquaplaning. It is a safer road, alltogether. Now some university is passing this off as a "Great American Invention"?!?!
Same thing happend with airport groundradar. A Norwegian Company invented a groundradar system for airports, allowing safer manouvering of aircraft in dense fog and other low viz situations. This delivered tremendous safety to airports. The FAA wanted it, but it had to be american - can't buy of those eurotrash companies and all that. 8 years down the line, and it still was not working. In the meantime, you have had about 33 near misses at o'hare alone.......
Obviously I shall now be modded down -50 "unpatriotic eurotrash bastard" whatever.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Here in Europe too, they've been testing quiter asphalt (they incorporate some kind or rubber in it). Some asphalts that evacuates the water faster are also tested. (I personaly saw impressive results in heavy rain on setions of the Lausanne-Geneva highway in Switzerland).
But in CA, the first step would be to drop those awfull concrete highway (doo-doom doo-doom...)
of course it's the rubber hitting the road. here in michigan the road commission made a serious mistake in implementing a "new" type of cement that was supposed to last longer. however, it turned out it didn't last long(er), in fact it did the opposite. and worst of all it had rivets perpendicular to the tires moving over it creating an obnoxious howling noise. i've seen more the one local news coverages on pissed off people living nearby highways that have to put up with terrible noise pollution.
Most of the time you hear a car coming before you see it. Could this affect safety on roads?
I read about rubber chunks in asphalt before. Supposedly it lasts longer because when water gets in the nooks and freezes it would normally bust up the surface but with rubber there it gives so pot holes don't form as easily. Another benefit is that using these types of asphalt gives us something to do with old tires that normally sit in a landfill somewhere collecting stagnant water and giving mosquitoes a place to breed. If we can lay a mile of this stuff for $325k instead of concrete or cheaper asphalt but save $2M per mile on sound barriers then that seems like a pretty hot ticket.
That IS pretty DAMN high! The coefficient of friction of rubber on dry asphalt is around 0.6 or 0.7, which is already considered to be pretty high. So logically, adding rubber to asphalt would probably improve the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road, hence decreasing stopping distance and improving cornering.
Physics is the study of everything.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
I don't quite remember the night, but I saw it on tv recently, and it kind of got me thinking.
Now I've got a sports car with some noise dampering, but generally I can hear everything. The nice thing is it's shaped really smoothly, so I hardly get any wind noise, so just about all the noise coming in from outside my car is from the road. The thing I notice is that even with current roads (I live in San Diego), the biggest difference is on the ones that are concrete - since they don't buckle like asphalt-covered ones do. Sure, I've noticed that some of them have grooves, which is where I suppose the air is going (and to help with skidding in the rare event of rain) - those ones seem to be the most quiet. But even those get loud if they're not graded right.
Hey, think about it, most of the time a car is fairly quiet, but when you go over a bump, your car is usually louder after you land and reach the minimum point. The other thing I'd say is that maybe it's due to the weight of the vehicles, as there's a huge difference between cars and SUVs/Trucks - and motorcycles are silent except for their engines. So maybe the solution is to stop selling SUVs... yeah, I'll keep dreaming.
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
I look forward to hitting the stuff, and they are supposed to be repaving a 21 mile portion of a highway thats not even 3 years old yet. (The highway system in Phoenix is still pretty new and growing)
I don't need a sig
Europe?
Seriously though I agree completely with your statement. However, common sense has long since left our government.
One thing the article doesn't touch on is reusability. One thing that the paving industry likes to pride itself on is that asphalt is almost totally recyclable. However, to my understanding, dense rubbers (such as car tires) aren't reuasable in that way, they can't be melted down and reused with reliability. Would the addition of the rubber have a problem with the recasting of the asphalt? With the amount of repaving that happens every year, what sort of effect will this have on the waste output of a repaving operation?
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
The solution to this is to replace all cars with Segway's. The highways will be a lot quieter, except you will now have the sound of Steve Jobs shitting his pants every time he sees the segway-filled freeway, and the curses of George W Bush as he repeatedly tries to ride one of the things and gets dumped out.
I guess it's different in the states, and possibly elsewhere, but in canada (or at least the handful of cities I've lived in), they've been using rubber in pavement on busy streets for years.
The pavement is simply asphalt with some mixed in rubber.
Well, then won't there be more rubber touching the road??
"and motorcycles are silent except for their engines"
Yes. Just like dead fish has a pleasant odor, except for the smell.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
it's like pulling a nail out of your head when you hit it
Is that using one of those hammers that pulls the nail at the same time it is driving it in? Or are you using on hammer to drive a nail into your head as the other hammer is just knocking on the noggin?
I still can't figure out what you mean, but whatever it is, I'm sure Tim the Toolman Taylor has experienced it. Maybe you need two hammers at once.
Its one more step towards mankind's ultimate dream , bouncy world! Car crash? No problem, you're in bouncy world! Airplane fly into a building? Boing! Ha, Ha, Ha, everybody OK!
It's pretty silent. Typically, someone quickly tears up the roads, covers the landscape with orange barrels, and the "workers" vanish never to be seen again (unless they appear some rare Thursday morning, eating sandwiches and scowling at the traffic going by)
"Orange Barrels, Orange Barrels everywhere i see....Orange Barrels, Orange Barrels staring back at me...Look at Larry, Darryl and Darryl in their orange vest apparel standing next to the orange barrel they pissed off my girlfriend Carol whos sitting next to me...."
I'd be willing to bet that the noisiest highway surface in the country is I-5 in Seattle. I'm not talking about the expansion joints (much of the surface is elevated) but the fact that the concrete has been eroded into visible ruts so you are driving on large chunks of rock. It's deafening inside the car. I recently drove 1200 miles and back (each way) on I-90 and found no section as noisy as that in Seattle. Apparently the problem is studded tires during the winter. It's funny how you see all these old people in the giant cars driving around with studded tires in the winter months even though there's no snow here.
I swear, I-95 / 93 around Boston has the worst drainage and road surface of any major highway I've seen (but no, I've not driven around LA. :). When it rains, the water just mists above the surface rather than draining away, drastically reducing visibility in otherwise OK conditions. Plus, the lack of clear road markings on I-95/rte 128 make it a case of 'spot the lanes', especially at night in bad weather.
Haven't they heard of reflective paint and cat's eyes? I pity non-local drivers exposed to those roads - it's no wonder there are so many accidents there.
"Your Tires are Rolling across the pavement when you're driving, and thus not really subject to that. The friction during driving comes from your bearings i"
There is plenty of friction involved from the normal tires rolling on the road too. This is what heats up the tires, and causes wear and loss of material over time.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Actually you should be more worried about rain...how it takes to soak into the new asfalt...
Anyway, new tarmack has allready been invented ( to be quiet, yes). It's called ZOAB (Zeer Open Asfalt Beton, which means Realy Open Asfalt Concreet). It's nice airy mix of asfalt & concreet which reduces the time for rain to soak in, making it a lot safer to ride on in heavy rain & is quite a bit quieter..
There are also newer versions that are even quieter, but so far only ZOAB is use on almost all the dutch high-ways.
I wish these people would just combine their efforts instead of staying in that NIH (Not Invented Here) mode.
Moderation: +4. Modded 70% Funny and 30% Overrated. 100% Saturated.
Granted, in the dry it will have good grip.
--
"we live in a post-ideological world..." - Billy Bragg.
" Technically, the road will be more.. rubbery. The sound is rubber..."
Boing! Boing! Bo-o-o-ing!! twoomp twamp twamp. Boing! Boing!
Old:
This is where the rubber meets the road
New:
This is where the rubber meets the.. Oh wait.. Nevermind.
The real problem is the fact that idiots continue to build and buy homes next to busy highways; airports too. If you don't like the noise, don't live there!
One future, two choices. Oppose them or let them destroy us.
I don't mean a motorcycle either. Try riding a mountain bike at some decent speed. Eventually, at the right speed, it hums quite nicely.
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
When it coems to winter time that stuff will get ripped up by the plow trucks & turn the road into a nast mess of pot holes. No way, they tried that stuff that lets water drain faster, it worked during the summer but when teh snow melted from the salt & froze in those cracks & then it got ripped up by the plows ... what a PITA
~ryan
I've been driving on a Caltrans rubberized asphalt road nose trial section of I-280 (Woodside CA) for about a year now. It's been great for dropping noise levels, but I want to see what the noise level of this section of road is at the end of its life span.
I don't know how or why, but the parent post inspired me to babelfish-recycle it through various languages just for fun. I have some karma to burn, so enjoy at my expense =)
Chinese:
It is more step toward humanity's final dream, has the elastic world! Traffic accident? Without the question, you are in have in the elastic world! The airplane flight enters the building? Boing! Ha, Ha, Ha, hello!
French:
Its more stage towards the final dream of humanity, world bouncy! Car accident? No problem, you are in world bouncy! Fly of plane in a building? Boing! Ha, ha, ha, everyone WELL!
German:
Its more step toward for the crucial dream of mankind, bouncy world! Autoabort? A problem, are not you in bouncy the world! Airplane fly into a building? Boing! Hectar, hectar, hectar, each o.k.!
Italian:
Relative a new point towards the last dream of the humanity, world bouncy! Arrest of the automobile? C$r-nessun.problema, you are in world bouncy! Moscow of the airplane in one construction? Boing! It has, it has, it has, everyone GOOD!
Japanese:
Final dream of the mankind, the world where there is an elasticity many steps than the 1 of that! Automobile accident? There is no world where there is a problem and an elasticity! Growing of airplane to building? Boing! It is good everyone of ha, ha and ha!
Korean:
With mankind ultimate dream, it phase 1 of the world which is cheerful compared to! Car crash? Problem, it is an inside the world which is cheerful spreads out,! At building airplane flight range? Boing! The ha, the ha and the ha all it is good!
Portuguese:
Its one more stage for the final dream of the humanity, world bouncy! Electric noise of the car? No problem, you is in the world bouncy! Fly of the airplane in a building? Boing! Ha, Ha, Ha, all ARE WELL!
Spanish:
His a more passage towards the last dream of the humanity, world of bouncy! Collapse of the car? No problem, you are in world of bouncy! Fly of airplane in a building? Boing! It has, it has, it has, all VERY WELL!
-
"The ha, the ha and the ha all it is good!"
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" Or is the combination of a .sig that critizises current US behaviour on the world stage"
Typically, such criticism is based on a combination of ignorance, and outright hatred.
Didn't some country have the bright idea to mix rubber with asphalt before as a way to recycle old tires? and didn't a car bursting into flames after an accident literally cause the road to catch fire?
I live in the Chicagoland area where the two seasons are winter and construction. Our roads are regularly ground down to their component elements and reconstituted in a shoddy manner that necessitates their annual replacement.
I can only assume that this pattern will continue indefinitely rubber in the roads or not. It should be business as usual for the shovel-leaners around here.
Blaze a trail to the New World
That's for clean rubber-on-rubber. Add some dust, sand, or dirt in there, and I'm sure it goes down a whole lot. It's also for generally flat rubber (flooring or tread) - change that for asphalt-like texture and you'll have crannies for the dust to flee to (so it stays out of the contact area), but you'll also change the whole surface interaction.
cool info, thanks.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
That link refered to tires used a fill under the roadway:
...the recycled rubber is piled to a maximum depth of 27 feet on a 4-foot gravel bed, topped with 3 feet to 5 feet of soil.
From this article:
What's being proposed is a modification to the asphalt - more of a surface treatment.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Here in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil, the Government is performing tests with this kind of pavement, made with recycled tires. Its only half a mile, and the diference is brutal...
\m/
NT
If the elasticity is increased such that a mild rebound effect is produced, this will decrease the effective friction. However, I would not expect this to be a major issue.
In addition, I would expect the initial friction to be of higher importance than kinetic friction for standard (i.e. not emergency braking with wheel lock) driving conditions.
Q.
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Each year I moved house one street further away from the uni, and each year at final exam time they would scrape the top of the road for resurfacing.
It would take a good month for them to do one street, and the noise was truly horrendous.
If a solution is found to this noise then I will be impressed. :)
Q.
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Engineers looking at the problems of car crashes decided it would be advantageous to have rubber bumpers so that cars don't smash into each other, but instead bounce "harmlessly" off each other.
Unfortunately, this converted the energy that had previously been lost as deformation, noise, etc. into spring recoil energy...
Consider two cars colliding head on, both moving at the modest speed of 10Km/h. Instead of each driver deccelerating from 10Km/h to 0Km/h in the space of say one meter, they will deccelerate from 10kM/h to -10Km/h (assuming a perfectly inelastic collision).
This basically doubled the force applied to the passengers of the cars and dramatically increased passenger injuries...
Funnily enough they stopped making rubber bumpers. :)
Q.
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If a wheel has 50 distinct nodules/strips of tread pattern, and is rotating at 264rpm, then it will produce a tone at around 220Hz (or concert pitch A).
If tires were constructed in a less repetitious tread design - perhaps a log periodic or goedel sequence - then it would help eliminate these stray harmonics .
Q.
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I drive on a mile stretch of it that was put down in a test on my way to work here in Phoenix, and there is a 12 mile stretch on another highway here. Its quiet, safe, and no problems with braking or anything else. Its quite a pleasure to drive on
Hi,
As someone who lives next to an on ramp I would like to disagree with the people in California. The continual background noise of the tires as vehicles drive by is not difficult to live with. What is annoying are the people who feel it is necessary to "put the hammer down" and otherwise drive like idiots.
Just my $0.02
I'd personally like to have the tread of my tire play "Can't Touch This" by M.C.Hammer at 55 mph and "Man! I Feel Like A Woman!" by Shania Twain at city speeds.
The stuff the poster is talking about is called actually a kind of asphalt mixed with stones to make it very open. Another nice property is that it allows water to go through. This means that the roads do not get wet when it is raining, and there is no water being slashed by big trucks. The only problem is that the top layer freezes quicker when temperatures are low. And that it is more easily damaged by flat tires from trucks. Appearantly, most drives do not notice the flat tires, as sometimes the tracks run on for miles.
A couple of years ago, Essex County paved the short stretch of highway that ran from Route 78 to the Mall at Short Hills with a "quiet" pavement. The difference is very noticeable. Much like the difference between driving on regular asphalt, and then hitting a patch of recently paved road, the "SHHHHH!!" sound you usually hear suddenly dims down to a low "wooohhh".
OK, so maybe you can't get the complete impression from phonetic sounds, but you get the idea.
Unfortunately, the cost of the pavement not only exceeds traditional highway materials, but also caused a bit of an outcry from other towns as they didn't get the same for their roads.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Look here http://www.silentroads.nl/index.php?section=produc ts for what is being used in the Netherlands. I read a 'discussion' about ZOAB, which was more like a flame war, that's why I don't post it as a reply. ZOAB is commonly used in the Netherlands, also because rain is removed from the surface quite fast, hence safer roads.
There's a stretch of highway in Buffalo that's been repaved in the past few years and that is so quiet and smooth, it feels like floating on air (almost). It's the northbound section of I-190 between a point somewhat north of Rt. 198 (the Scajaquada) and the Tonawanda GM Plant. I drive a sport-sedan with very sensitive struts and a set of rather quiet Michelin tires, frequently travel with the windows down, and I just love that ~1 mile stretch of road. You can actually listen to the radio while crusing at ~70mph (110km/h) and not have the volume up past comfortable levels. The pavement is grooved concrete with the grooves running parallel to path of travel, which eliminates the unbearable whine of running them perpendicularly. There's very limited noise coming from joints, too. All in all, entering that section of highway feels like "Aaaaahhhhhh!"-kind of relief (like a bad migraine going away in a blink of an eye). Compared to all the other roads aroud Western NY and southern Ontario, it's the quietest road by far (and if you live here, you'll know what I mean).
Bottom line? Don't need rubber, don't need asphalt to make the road quieter or last longer -- just pour the concrete right and groove it properly. That road must've been put into service at least 3 years ago, and I have yet to see a single pothole or imperfection.
Have EVDO, will travel.
Your title says rt 24, which runs by the Mall at Short Hills, but in your comment it says rt 78. I'm guessing you meant to say rt 24? Which side of the highway? East bound, west bound?
..........FULL STOP.
This process is patented too.
= PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.ht ml&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=tire+rubber&FIELD1=ABST&co1= AND&TERM2=asphalt&FIELD2=ABST&d=ptxt
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1
Car horns blown by intra-city drivers. Is it really necessary to: - Blast your horn when you drive past someone you know? - Honk the very instant the light turns green to get people moving? - Honk again and again when pulling up to pick someone up, when all you have to do is get out and knock or call someone using your cell phone? - Or honk in front of a shopping mall or office building to pick someone up - surely you know that they either don't hear it, or can't distinguish it from regular "background honking?" Horn honking diminishes everyone's quality of life - including your own.
1. Jake brakes.
2. Truck tailgates banging.
Is anyone trying to develop quiet trucks? I sure hope so.