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Cloning Yields Human-Rabbit Hybrid Embryo

ralphb writes "Here is the story of scientists in China who have, for the first time, used cloning techniques to create hybrid embryos that contain a mix of DNA from both humans and rabbits. Hop on over for a look!"

107 of 655 comments (clear)

  1. God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by sweeney37 · · Score: 5, Funny

    My dear god, didn't any of these "scientists" ever see Night of the Lepus?!

    We're all doomed!!

    Mike

    1. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by Etherwalk · · Score: 2, Funny
      This is massively disturbing; I was about to ask the same question. There is no way that, in a sane world, two people should have the human/rabbit embryo lead naturally to "night of the lepus."

      Of course, a little rabbit never hurt anybody. It's the really huge rabbits we have to worry about.

    2. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by emdean091876 · · Score: 4, Funny

      > Of course, a little rabbit never hurt anybody. It's the really huge rabbits we have to worry about.

      What about the rabbit with big narly teeth that almost killed all of Sir Arthurs knights?

    3. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by Etherwalk · · Score: 3, Funny

      Of course! Sorry, clarification: It's the really huge rabbits we have to worry about, and the really fast rabbits. Small rabbits that are not fast at attacking armored men and killing them, merely present the same troubles as tribbles.

    4. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Funny

      I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it? Well, it's always the same. I always tell them--

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can I get a Pat Buchanan Gerbil here please.
      Hang on, I gotta pull it out of Bill O'Reilly's ass..

    6. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by 72beetle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Please explain to me the ethical difference in the two positions.


      Ok, I'll bite.

      It comes down to where you think human life begins - in my opinion (and no doubt, not yours), human life begins at the point where the fetus can survive on its own. Until then, it's a parasite, and the host should be able to deal with it as the host sees fit.

      Wait, you say, does that mean that someone who is dependant upon machines to live is somehow less human than someone who can survive autonomously?

      Yes. That's what I'm saying. Humans dependant upon machines to live are cyborgs.

      My karma's fat, so bring on the flames. Don't forget to warm up your bibles.

      -72

      --
      -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
    7. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by banzai51 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you celebrate your conception day? How about your Birthday?

    8. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by Psmylie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a common misconception to call someone who is pro-choice a "pro-abortionist". Most "pro-choice" people that I know don't go around encouraging pregnant women to have abortions. None of the pro-choice women I know have ever had an abortion.

      In regards to your comment about a fertilized egg being a human being, well... I think that depends on what you mean. Is it genetically distinct from its parents? Yes. Does it contain human DNA? Yes. Is it a person? Debatable. A fertilized egg does not have a brain, a personality, or any sense of its environment. Is it possible to lack these qualities and still be considered human? That's a matter of viewpoint.

      --

      psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo

    9. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by 72beetle · · Score: 2, Informative

      A parasite is a species that lives off another species. You can have exploitive and symbiotic parasitism, but it always involves a host and parasite species.

      A human embryo and a human mother are the same species. Therefore, by definition, the human embryo is NOT a parasite.


      You've obviously never met my sister-in-law. Anyway, back to my point:

      Dictionary.com defines parasite as: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

      It says nothing about differing species, only different organisms. By the above definition, a fetus is a perfect example.

      Ultimately, the parasite argument is inconsequential. The issue at hand is still whether or not a fetus counts as a human, and the answer to that isn't scientific, it's theological - which makes it good fodder for debate, but not as a basis for advancing or hindering scientific research. Just like the RIAA's supposed 'potential income', you can't quantify 'potential humanity'.

      -72

      --
      -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
    10. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by jrl87 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I guess that means if you can count to 3 no more no less, we could destroy it with the holy hand grenade

    11. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They define clinical human death as the absense of brainwave activity, so why don't they define clinical human life as the presence of brainwave activity?

      Oh, right, it's hard to attach emotions to a EEG.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    12. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by b-baggins · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your argument basically boils down to: A human being is worthy of life based upon how it receives sustenance.

      This philosophically no different than Hilter's Final Solution. To maintain otherwise commits the logical fallacy of the Paradigm.

      --
      You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
    13. Re:God, I've seen a lot of crap movies.... by b-baggins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Again, this is the fallacy of false equivalence. One human is in a state of deterioration. The other is in a state of growth and development.

      Once the eeg is flat in an adult human being, it will not recur. Using a flatt eeg to define death, or the end of life, was arrived at biologically. A flat eeg indicates the death of the human being. Individual components may continue on for a few hours or days, but the organism as a whole is dead .

      In a developing human being, organism will start with a flat eeg, then beging to show increasing development and complexity. The organism is already alive, and will continue to grow in complexity as time passes.

      --
      You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
  2. Tasteless by ComaVN · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally, babies with a healthy appetite for sex

    --
    Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
    1. Re:Tasteless by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is this the place to make the obligitory remark about Chinese and Rabbit mating habbits?

      There are, after all, a *LOT* of Chinese...

      "I'm multiplying Doc, I'm multiplying."

  3. Hugh Hefner at work? by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    China trying to compete with Hugh and create their own Playboy Bunnies? Not to mention the potential for pleasure, knowing how rabbits multiply....

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    1. Re:Hugh Hefner at work? by lovebyte · · Score: 5, Funny

      knowing how rabbits multiply

      New Chinese policy: Only one baby rabbit per couple!

      --

      I'll do it for cheesy poofs.

    2. Re:Hugh Hefner at work? by cygnus · · Score: 4, Funny
      New Chinese policy: Only one baby rabbit per couple!

      Lenny's going to be pissed when he accidentally kills his...

      --
      Just raise the taxes on crack.
  4. I for one by prisoner · · Score: 4, Funny

    Welcome our new fuzzy over...nevermind.

  5. Bah... by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bah, what a trivial story. Let me know when they can make a monkey with four asses. THEN, I'll be impressed!

    1. Re:Bah... by tbase · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe we should just leave nature to its simple, one-asses schematics.

      --

      666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
    2. Re:Bah... by Lord+Dimwit+Flathead · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're way ahead of you. From the article:

      The team said it retrieved foreskin tissue from two 5-year-old boys and two men, and facial tissue from a 60-year-old woman, as a source of skin cells. They fused those cells with New Zealand rabbit eggs from which the vast majority of rabbit DNA had been removed.

      If you thought rotten.com was bad, just wait until foreskinrabbitface.com goes live.

    3. Re:Bah... by Jackdaw+Rookery · · Score: 2, Funny

      WTF? You want a monkey with 4 asses? What have you got planned?! No, no, I didn't ask, I was was never here.

      *Backs away*

    4. Re:Bah... by MxTxL · · Score: 5, Funny

      Let me know when they can make a monkey with four asses.

      They already can. Actually, it's five asses. The prototype one they have developed is named Darl McBride and the asses are named Sontag, Bench, Wilson, Hunsaker and Broughton

    5. Re:Bah... by Gleng · · Score: 3, Funny

      God, Schmod. I want my monkeyman!

      --
      "Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
  6. Not really a mutant by lovebyte · · Score: 5, Informative

    mix of DNA from both human and rabbit

    Well, not exactly. The cell DNA was human. Only the mitochondrial DNA was from rabbit.

    --

    I'll do it for cheesy poofs.

    1. Re:Not really a mutant by saskwach · · Score: 5, Funny

      So...It's a bunny-powered human? Does Energizer know about this?

    2. Re:Not really a mutant by fenix+down · · Score: 5, Funny

      I know, what the hell's with the headlines on this story? They cloned human stem cells using rabbit cell-goo, they didn't make "rabbit-human" hybrids.

      To clone human stem cells:
      1) Find woman to let you jam a needle into her ovary
      2) Stick random human cell nucleus in egg you sucked out
      3) ???
      4) Stem Cells!!

      To clone human stem cells in China:
      1) Look for woman to let you jam a needle into her ovary
      2) Get kicked in the nads
      3) Buy rabbits
      4) Jam a needle in rabbit ovary
      5) Stick random human cell nucleus in egg you sucked out
      6) ???
      7) Stem Cells!!
      8) Claim to have created rabbit-babies
      9) Wait for science-illiterate newsmen to promote your stock symbol on TV
      10) Profit!!

      What a bunch of fuckholes. Seriously, when the best scientific information in your article's coming from the Vatican, I think you're in trouble.

    3. Re:Not really a mutant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Essentially, it's a rabbit cell with rabbit mitochondria (which has rabbit DNA), but instead of a rabbit nucleus, it's a human nucleus w/ human DNA

  7. Hrmm by acehole · · Score: 5, Funny

    I for one welcome our new human-rabbit hybrid masters.

    I will remind them that I could be useful in rounding up people to toil in their underground carrot mines.

    --
    Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
    1. Re:Hrmm by gowen · · Score: 2, Funny
      I will remind them that I could be useful in rounding up people to toil in their underground carrot mines
      bunnies aren't just cute as everybody supposes
      They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses
      And what's with all the carrots?
      What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
      Bunnies, bunnies, it must be bunnies

      Lyrics by Josh Whedon, reproduced without permission because, hey, its the internet and everyone does it...
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  8. This is just the sort of thing... by BJZQ8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is just the sort of thing that will catch the attention of do-gooder congressmen and get things like cloning research completely banned...If they do things like this, they should keep it quiet, not get it out into the mainstream of public opinion where people can jump (or maybe hop-hop-hop) to conclusions and phone their congressman.

    1. Re:This is just the sort of thing... by ReciprocityProject · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The vast majority of the DNA in the embryos is human, with a small percentage of genetic material -- called mitochondrial DNA -- contributed by the rabbit egg.

      Ok guys. I'm all in favor of stem cell research, but . . . we need to just stop and figure out a way to do it without generating shocking headlines. This kind of headline is just going to piss everyone off and hinder the progress of the research.

      It would be wrong to keep it quiet - and people would find out anyway. Just keep it below a certain shock level. I.e. no furry humans with long ears and twitchy noses showing up in the tabloids. Please?

    2. Re:This is just the sort of thing... by aug24 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, I suggets that this is just the sort of thing that must be presented correctly, rather than kept quiet about. It is a useful and viable scientifc endeavour, not just a "Hey, let's put a cat in a blender and see what happens!" type of experiment.

      It should be phrased in as scientifically opaque a way as possible though, so that the tabloid journalists can't understand it ;-)

      J.

      --
      You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
    3. Re:This is just the sort of thing... by cybermace5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you kidding? Our politicians are only green with envy that this did not take place in America, so that they could claim credit for it.

      The whole point of this excercise was to find a way to get stem cells for research. Apparently they think this method is quite likely to work.

      Do you remember a little thing about stem cells? Wasn't there a little spat or two about it? This is a huge breakthrough which can allow both sides to be happy. Although the human-embryo stem cell proponents do lose some face, because there really was another way to get the stem cells.

      --
      ...
    4. Re:This is just the sort of thing... by pergamon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably, but perhaps this will have the opposite effect. When it is clear that a country like China, who already has a significant impact on the economy of the US, is able to make advances in the embryonic stem cell area that we aren't due to regulations, that could end up being a strong argument to relax restrictions in the US. Probably not in the short term, but when and if stem cell related treatments become mainstream and if it turns out that embryonic stem cells are the only/best/cheapest/something way to go then we'll have to see whether voters will elect officials who will make it possible for that research and treatment to be done here in the US.

      A couple big 'if's, but it could happen.

    5. Re:This is just the sort of thing... by Ramze · · Score: 3, Informative
      The thing is, the religious right will still have a field day with this and try to ban it, too. It's not so much "another way of getting stem cells" as it is the same way -- only using a donor egg from another species.

      You're still using human DNA -- probably the whole human nucleus in a cell that is allowed to become a fetus. The major difference between all animal embryos is the DNA of the nucleus, so essentially you have a human embryo w/ mitochondria that are unique from other humans. Mitochondrial DNA changes slowly as it is passed from mother to children & all mammals have a common ancester, so the mitochondria isn't radically different genetically from ours, nor does it change the function of the mitochondria themselves to any noticable degree.

      It's possible that embryos braught to full term could produce normal looking humans -- if the cloning process for primates even worked. There seem to be problems with human cloning that are even more complex than cloning with other animals

      The religious right will stomp their feet and shout that these living things are "human" b/c they have human DNA & that "playing God" with living things with human DNA is wrong & try to shut this down. Many Republican senators (even the president) bow to these religious wackos & would try to stop this research if they could.

      Having said that, I usually vote Republican, though I consider myself a moderate... if it weren't for the Democrat's stupid fiscal and monetary policies, I'd vote for them ;-) But, I digress.

  9. human DNA by invalid_argument · · Score: 3, Funny

    "I think because all the nuclear DNA is human," Doerflinger said, "we'd consider this an organism of the human species."

    Better pay attention, when you go hunting next time.

  10. This is disgusting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even regular cloning causes most of the subjects to die. I can't imagine interspecies cloning not killing many many more. Most likely, this embryo will die after a few divisions, being so strange. However, even "successful" clones have more problems and a shorter lifespan. Doing this should be unethical by anyone's standards.

    1. Re:This is disgusting by aaamr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You guys are completely missing the point.... it's neither disgusting, nor disturbing. It is a viable and exciting research path that could someday lead to cures for many chronic diseases. To quote the article:

      "Most important, researchers said, the paper stops short of proving beyond a doubt that the stem cells retrieved from the hybrid embryos are truly capable of growing for long periods of time in lab dishes, and that they can turn into every known kind of cell."

      To give an example or where this kind of research could be very useful, some of the big issues with the Edmonton Protocol to treat Type I diabetes (http://www.joslin.harvard.edu/news/islet_transpla nt_july.shtml) are the requirement to use immuno-suppresive drugs to prevent rejection of the transplanted cells. Stem-cell research, and now this kind of research could go a long way towards dealing with this.

      So I have a hard time listening to the people who have a knee-jerk reaction that this kind of research is "disgusting" or "disturbing". The potential difference it could make in the lives of many millions of people is astounding.

    2. Re:This is disgusting by tmhsiao · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course, if you read the article, you'd realize that they're not going to develop the "clone" to have any lifespan--they're trying to create a method to harvest stem cells (without the need for abortions).

      --
      "My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
  11. Finally... by Suhas · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...we can breed like rabbits

  12. Gives new meaning to the phrase.. by rehabdoll · · Score: 2, Funny

    Whats up doc?

  13. I would have thought ... by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... China had enough people already, without creating humans that breed like rabbits!

    1. Re:I would have thought ... by imtheguru · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...now humans that breed like pandas... that i can understand.

      --
      Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
      A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
  14. Those monsters! by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't they know that adding human DNA to rabbit embryos is a crime against nature? They should abort babies for those stem cells, the way God intended.

  15. This is neat and all, but... by I'm+a+racist. · · Score: 3, Funny

    How many asses does it have? I suspect it's less than five.

    --


    Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
  16. Is that very useful ? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Funny

    Scientists in China have, for the first time, used cloning techniques to create hybrid embryos that contain a mix of DNA from both humans and rabbits

    I thought China needed to control the exponential growth of their population, do they really need that? They should sell the technology to the state of Florida instead ...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  17. And his experiment ... by altp · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... mixing the frog with the horse was great, until the explosion.

  18. Sorry, no Rabbit People by Penguin2212 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The vast majority of the DNA in the embryos is human, with a small percentage of genetic material -- called mitochondrial DNA -- contributed by the rabbit egg. No one knows if such an embryo could develop into a viable fetus, though some experiments with other species suggest it would not.

    The DNA that they put into the human cells is not DNA which determines physical charateristics. It's mitochondrial DNA, which is found in the cells' mitochondria. These little organelles of the cell basically burn sugar to make energy usable for the rest of the cell. There is a lot of evidence suggesting that the mitochondria found in all human cells was actually a seperate organism that became co-dependent with the cells in which they lived. Interstingly enough, mitochondiral is almost totally unaltered with a new generation, and is always passed down through the female of the species because the sperm cells typically have very few or a negligible amount of mitochondria. i.e. You have the same mitochondrial DNA as your mother and all your siblings, and she has all the same as her mother and so on down your family tree.

    1. Re:Sorry, no Rabbit People by Idarubicin · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The DNA that they put into the human cells...

      Hate to nitpick, but this is a really important point from an ethical standpoint. The eggs that were collected were from rabbits. The rabbit nuclear DNA was removed, and replaced with human DNA.

      It's the same end result--an egg with human nuclear DNA and rabbit mitochondrial DNA--but the original eggs were harvested from rabbits. This is potentially a very useful technique, because it represents a source of embryonic stem cells that doesn't require the collection of eggs from humans--a time-consuming, costly, and potentially dangerous process.

      Aside: There is no intention to allow these chimeric embryos to mature into some sort of science fiction half-man half-rabbit hybrid--the Chinese government limited the researchers to fourteen days growing time. The only purpose of these experiments is to develop a new source of embryonic stem cells.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  19. idea by phloydphreak · · Score: 2, Funny

    mix b g with a cat; he will re-design Windz such that when a blue screen appears, the computer also vomits in your shoes.
    What have we created

    --
    "this is the gloaming"
    Radiohead
    --

    --
    "this is the gloaming"
    radiohead
  20. Obj Monty Python by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Funny
    What kinds of future hybrids can we have?

    Wizard: It's a horrible beast.
    King Arthur: What, you mean behind the bunny rabbit?
    Wizard: It IS the bunny rabbit?

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  21. Stem Cells by darkstar949 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Judgeing from the artical they might have found a better way to get stem cells for research. However, now instead of having to deal with just people that are anti-cloning or anti-stem cell research, you would also have to deal with the animal rights activists because of the retrevial of the eggs, and the undertermined status of the cells after they are created.
    So in the short run it is posibly a better way to get stem cells, in the long run it will raise alot of ethical concerns, as well as the undermined nature of the cell - in short we don't know if they are "true" stem cells in their ablity to grow into any organ. Also, if they do have the potenital to become any organ, we don't know how the human body would react to the foegin DNA (the rabit mitocadria)

  22. What I really want to know is... by Warlover · · Score: 4, Funny

    When are they gonna stop fooling around and start engineering Carmen Electra clones that have a thing for network admins...

  23. Foreskins by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 4, Funny

    RTFA and you'll find the cells used for the DNA were a mix of rabbit skin and human foreskin. Imagine explaining that when your long-eared, buck-toothed teenager asks "Daddy, where do babies come from?"

    --
    When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
  24. if a cell = a life then... by rokzy · · Score: 4, Funny

    every time you bang your head you become a mass murderer?

    or would you say it's a multiple suicide?

    either way, I'm definitely going to hell, right?

  25. Deeper thinking required by gone.fishing · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't claim to be a DNA expert but I'll bet the people opposing these kinds of exparaments know even less about DNA than I do.

    Somewhere I've read that we share most of our DNA with all the other members of the animal kingdom and indeed we share a lot of DNA with every living thing.

    Some of these exparaments are "pure research" and others are "applied research." In pure research you do the exparament and then look to see where it took you. In applied research you have a pretty good idea of where you are going and are pretty much conducting the exparament to verify your theory. In either case, there really is a goal to the research and I'll submit that the goal is usually good for humanity.

    Without this kind of research we would miss out on opportunities to cure disease, treat birth defects and, all sorts of other good things. But, there is something even better that comes from this research. We gain a greater understanding of the world we live in. We add to humankinds knowlege base. Without doing this we will fail to advance and the next century will look like the last. When that happens there is little doubt that we will have started to slide down the road to extinction becuase we will exhaust vital resources.

  26. Re:We all should have seen this coming... by lovebyte · · Score: 2, Informative

    You should not bring Chinese morality into this, since US researchers have tried this too. from the WP article:
    Although scientists in Massachusetts had previously mixed human cells and cow eggs in a similar attempt to make hybrid embryos as a source of stem cells, those experiments were not successful.

    Secondly, this was done to produce stem cells and not out of morbid curiosity. Please, I know this is /., but RTFA!

    --

    I'll do it for cheesy poofs.

  27. Advertiser Links by ddkilzer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did anyone notice the advertiser links at the bottom of the page for Latest Stem Cell Therapy and Dwarf Rabbit?

    Talk about keyword advertising gone awry!

  28. Re:Smoking Man at work? by buckeyeguy · · Score: 4, Funny
    Sit outside any Wal-Mart and observe the fact that cattle-like humans already exist...

    As for rabbits... couldn't they have picked a cooler species to intermix with? Wolves, cheetahs (fast sprinters for the Olympics!), bears... hmph. Definitely not primates though... anyone seeing 28 Days Later should put the kibosh on that one.

    --
    I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
  29. Next step . . . by Jaywalk · · Score: 5, Funny

    So when are they going to cross ninjas with turtles?

    --
    ===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
  30. Buffy the Vampire Slayer Refrence... by Lord_Slepnir · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now we finally know why Anya was so afraid of rabbits... She saw their future as our masters...

  31. Hoax by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...made by fusing human skin cells with rabbit eggs...

    This has to be a hoax. Rabbits are mammals and give live birth.

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
  32. Re:Why? by vidarh · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You don't need rabbit-human hybrids. However, medical researchers do need stem cells to pursue a huge number of research goals, including growing new organs, repairing damaged tissue, regrowing nerves etc. That research is being hampered by concerns from a lot of groups about harvesting stemcells from aborted embryos. Hence this research to create an alternative source of stem cells.

    In other words, this IS important research, that has the potential of providing important material for research projects that might take medical science huge leaps forwards.

  33. Think of the furries... by Randolpho · · Score: 5, Funny

    The furry crowd must be mighty yiffy over this little development. :)

    Of course... they're mostly yiffy all the time.....

    --
    "Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
    -Marilyn Manson
    1. Re:Think of the furries... by BoneFlower · · Score: 2, Funny

      Too bad this came too late for TLC to ask about it in their documentary next week...

    2. Re:Think of the furries... by CrowScape · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or whatever's the closest living bird that resembles a roadrunner.

      What's wrong with using an actual roadrunner and not something that just resembles it?

      --
      common sense: noun
      What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
  34. All this scientific research .... by JSkills · · Score: 2, Funny

    All this scientific research just to make Bugs Bunny a reality?

  35. Human-Management hybred by MECC · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anytime soon?

    Don't they realize they've been doing this in Kentucky for a long time?

    --
    "We are all geniuses when we dream"
    - E.M. Cioran
  36. We all should have read the damn article by aug24 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The 'perceived benefit' you can't see is eventually to create a source of stem cells without using aborted foetuses.

    This kind of knee-jerk 'this is bad/immoral/whatever' comment, even though you clearly didn't finish (start?) reading the article is exactly the kind of piss-poor commentary that prevents science doing good.

    J.

    --
    You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
    1. Re:We all should have read the damn article by Tyreth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whether or not this particular research was ethical or not, there should still be boundaries set up. We cannot justify the experiments Nazi's did in the name of science, merely because it's "knee-jerk" to stop it.

      There obviously needs to be boundaries - so lets work them out.

    2. Re:We all should have read the damn article by aug24 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I totally agree with you, and in fact (most? all?) foetuses used for research in the UK are the 'spare' ones from IVF, so there's even less of an issue.

      Sadly, the 'moral majority' aka Christians (and other people with imaginary friends who apparently tell them what to think), have votes too.

      J.

      --
      You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
  37. That's hot. by HaloZero · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can we splice some donut DNA into something, like a duck or a moose and have donut-shaped, rolly-polly ducks and... mooses? Imagine, a duck with a big round hoop on it back.

    Hm.

    --
    Informatus Technologicus
  38. Cell mass != viable organism by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    One thing to keep in mind about embryonic development is that it progresses in stages, and different genes kick in at different stages. Just because cells divide in a petri dish, or progress to some stage of development, is not an indication that it will develop into a viable organism.

    For example, if a human embryo with three of a given chromosome is formed, depending on which chromosome it forms on, the embryo may either fail to develop past the 8 cell stage, or develop into a 10 week fetus and die, or develop longer and die, but never become viable outside the womb. Down's syndrome is unique in that it and sex chromosome triploidies are the only triploidies that are compatible with life. Other triploidies result in miscarriage or failure to implant.

    Unfortunately, I had to learn about this the hard way.

    --
    It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
    1. Re:Cell mass != viable organism by Idarubicin · · Score: 3, Interesting
      ..triploidies...

      Small nitpick. You're referring to trisomy, not triploidy. Trisomy (in humans) refers to an inadvertant tripling of one chromosome; triploidy is the result of an extra (third) copy of all chromosomes. Triploidy is usually the result of two sperm fertilizing a single egg. (Oops.) Trisomy (or monosomy, where the fetus is one chromosome short) is usually the result of an uneven division of genetic material when sperm or egg was formed.

      Triploid fetuses usually spontaneously abort, though some will survive to term--in which case their life expectancy is less than a month.

      As you noted, some trisomies are survivable; most are not. More details here.

      Interesting aside: Some species (particularly plants) tolerate polyploidy quite well, having tetraploid or hexaploid genomes (four or six sets of chromosomes). Odd numbers of sets are infertile, but again are often tolerated in plants--this infertility is sometimes a desired trait, as in seedless watermelons and grapes.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  39. China develops bunny hibrid! by leoboiko · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow! The results are impressive!

    Chinese scientists announced that now they'll focus research in catgirls.

    --
    Prescriptive grammar:linguistics :: alchemy:chemistry. Stop being a nazi and learn some science.
  40. this experiment is the direct result of US law by *weasel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    if the US wasn't strictly trying to control embryonic stem cells for research, then there wouldn't be a demand to make a hybrid source for embryonic stem cells.

    america (currently) leads because we (usually) have the foresight to keep barriers out of the way of technological progress. we have slowly overcome nearly every 'religious' boundary by slowly letting people become accustomed to the way this medical technology -improves- life. each time they are accused of wanting to 'play god'. scientists grit and bear the well-intentioned but factually ignorant viewpoint until slowly the advances are accepted.

    i'm not saying that we throw our morals to the wind and race to immortality and superhuman hybrids - just that we redirect our skepticism. are we really trying to play god? or are we just trying to preserve and extend life, to ease pain and suffering, and to advance as much of our species as we can, without hurting anyone? instead of just levelling opposition to every potential breakthrough because we're 'playing god' - can't we just look for a second at what the facts are?

    embryonic stem cells are being harvested from aborted fetuses. fetuses that were legally terminated and currently, are waste. by banning science from using this unfortunate situation to the best of their ability, people are ensuring that absolutely no good comes from the situation.

    if lives can be saved by studying those who have left - then why in the world would we stand in the way of that? religious opposition in the 19th and early 20th century maintained that if we allowed study of cadavers or donation of organs that people would be killed and abducted and harvested by notorious individuals in the name of 'science'. but that did not happen. nor will people go out of their way to abort fetuses just so they can get stem cells. scientists are not growing fetuses to harvest stem cells.

    this unfortunately ignites the whole abortion debate, which i doubt will ever be resolved. but legally, if I, as next of kin, have the right to determine whether the body of a loved one is to be donated to science; why shouldn't these mothers who exercised their legal right to terminate their pregnancies, also have that same legal right to donate?

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
  41. Future pron star by IdJit · · Score: 2, Funny

    A human with the libido of a rabbit. Hmmm...

  42. "Every Sperm is Sacred" by ajs318 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've never understood where this idea comes from. When you have sex, the number of sperm released is typically in nine figures {decimal}. Out of all those sperm, most will not fuse with an egg. Perhaps one {single birth or identical twins} or rarely two {non-identical twins}, even rarer more than two. Most likely, none of them will find an egg.

    If a man has sex just once and gets his girlfriend pregnant, one sperm has done its job but there are still hundreds of millions of sperm wasted. Now if a man had sex twice a day every day for seventy years and each instance of sex conceives exactly one child, that is just over 50000 babies - and trillions of sperm. Most of which were just never going to make it. So if you had a w**k twice a day for seventy years you might have wasted trillions of sperm, but since most of them were never really going to go anywhere anyway, you have only really wasted one per shot. And there are sufficiently more sperm in a single ejaculation to make that quite insignificant by comparison.

    As they say, sperm are tiny, but it only takes one of them to fill a pram!

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  43. Bow Down! by brakk · · Score: 2, Funny

    I, for one, welcome our new Bunny-Men overlords.

  44. Long term results. by praksys · · Score: 3, Funny

    Some wondered aloud what, exactly, such a creature would be if it were transferred to a womb to develop to term.

    Some actually turned out ok, others not so well.

  45. About mitochondria... by gorzek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have not RTFA, but you touched on the nature of mitochondria...

    It is generally believed that mitochondria used to be the anaerobic bacteria present on primordial Earth. As they discharged oxygen as a waste product, they basically filled the atmosphere full of a chemical they couldn't respirate at all. As aerobic bacteria arose to take advantage of the vast amounts of oxygen in the atmosphere, the anaerobics started dying off, and it is believed that some of them managed to establish symbiotic relationships with the aerobic bacteria, eventually being absorbed into a single organism. The anaerobic bacteria, as I recall, produce energy much more efficiently than aerobic bacteria, while the aerobic bacteria can provide the chemicals necessary for the reaction to the anaerobics within.

    I Am Not A Molecular Biologist, so I may not be entirely accurate, but that is the best of my recollection.

  46. Did they smell the human contributors? by iabervon · · Score: 3, Funny

    So the resulting cells are human cells, except that tracing the maternal line using the standard techniques would... "Your mother was a hamster!"

  47. Re:Island of Dr. Moreau by usotsuki · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hikaru Usada!!!

    (She's an anime character with rabbit ears.)

    -uso.

    --
    Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
  48. Re:Island of Dr. Moreau by gfxguy · · Score: 3, Informative

    No... you didn't read the article. I just can't believe it. In order for this to happen, the embryo would have to be transferred to a womb. All the samples were destroyed. They don't believe a hybrid could even survive. That's not what this research is for.

    --
    Stupid sexy Flanders.
  49. Re:Pre-emptive post by ipsuid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, I was almost down to the bottom of the page moderating, and had to back out to respond to this point.

    You have come close to hitting on the quintessential question behind all of the debate.

    What makes a human a human?

    Arguably, the most important criteria for being human is awareness... consciousness.

    Here's a rather graphic gedanken:

    Shave off all your hair... are you still human? What if you amputate your arms and legs? How about body organs? Artificial heart, kidney dialysis, iron lung, etc... Take this beyond what is possible with modern day science... brain in a vat. Quality of life has certainly decreased dramatically! However, the brain is still thinking, the software of mind is still running. What if it were possible to run the software on other hardware? Sure, cyberpunk has beat this topic to death... but I certainly don't consider my brain to be me! To quote Rene Descartes: "cogito ergo sum". Nothing else is relevant... software is everything (yeah, I'm a programmer ;-) )

    Unfortunately, science has not been able to answer the question of when during development the spark of consciousness begins.

    Can we agree that awareness requires a brain? Can we agree that this brain needs to be working... ie. the synapses are firing, neural potentials exist?

    If so, then consciousness must begin sometime between 4 and 6 months of development.

    This experiment was limited to 14 days of development. This is the point when cells begin to differentiate. Clearly this is long before a brain and the potential for consciousness arises.

    Really, this is an ideal stop-gap measure. If by mixing mitochondrial DNA of another species with human nuclear DNA you achieve a development term necessary for medicinal purposes, and at the same time insure development self-aborts prior to brain development, then you end up with a self regulating procedure that prevents the accidental creation of a human consciousness.

    --
    It appears Ockham lost his razor and grew a beard.
  50. Re:Smoking Man at work? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I vote for cheetahs. I want my cat-girl, dammit.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  51. Pretty cool by praedor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First off, they had to remove virtually all the rabbit nuclear DNA because if you do not do this and simply fuse two cells (say a human cell and a rabbit cell) with intact DNA, almost invariably, the human DNA is lost. The cells dump extraneous DNA and it just happens that most often, it is the human chromosomes that get dumped.


    Second, this is merely a gradation of "chimera" beyond that which is commonly called a "transgenic". The later is a long-used basic tool in molecular biology/developmental research. There are innumerable extant mouse-human "chimeras" out there, just as there are Drosophila-human, yeast-human, yeast-E. coli, E. coli-yeast, etc, etc, etc, transgenic (chimeras). Normally, what is transfered in these cases are individual genes, though short chromosomal segments can be transfered as well. This article refers to a chimera in which it is merely the shell that contains the DNA (the cell) that is changed from native to alien species. You could likely get by with a viable cell with a partial mix of rabbit genes in human cells and vice versa, so long as the proteins encoded by the genes are homologous enough to share the same functions and helper proteins.


    What would be cool, in my opinion, would be to do a human-bird hybrid in which the bird cell contains only human genomic DNA but the cells retain avian mitochondria - with a little transgenic work done to replace the human mitochondrial genes in the nuclear chromosomes with their avian counterpart. Why? IF (a relatively big if) the mitochondria can properly function in concert with the rest of the human DNA, you might produce a long-lived cell line or, if you let it go to term, a longer lived human. Why? This is based on the oxidative damage/free radical theory of aging: bird mitochondria are much more efficient than human mitochondria on the level of producing energy (ATP) vs production of damaging oxygen radicals. Birds have a high metabolism and their lifespan, relative to metabolic rate (one of the supporting observations for the free radical theory of aging), is unusually long. In general, a higher metabolic rate equates to a correspondingly shorter lifespan. The predominant source of damaging radicals is mitochondria by far. So, if you replace the human mitochondria with super-efficient, low radical producing bird mitochondria, you could end up with a human with an extended lifespan (to unknown extent) if the free radical theory of aging is largely correct.


    Such a person would be no less human than anyone else, their mitochondria would simply be that of a bird rather than a human. Big deal. Mitochondria are alien themselves, afterall. They are the remnant of the fusion, hundreds of millions of years ago, between an anaerobic-type cell and a cyanobacteria-like aerobic bacteria. Once upon a time, then, a chimera was formed based on a semi-parasitic melding of two separate species. Each gains benefit from the other and ultimately, you end up with aerobic eukaryotic cells that makes humans, dogs, birds, insects, reptiles, etc.

    --
    In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  52. Not a mutant at all, very important though by Thomas+Miconi · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's not a mutant. They inserted human chromosomes into a rabbit *egg* cell. Only the mitochondrial DNA (the one that is provided by the egg, comes from the mother, and has little to do with heredity as a whole) came from the rabbit.

    Why is this important ? Well, because the ability to make valid human stem-cells from animal egg cells would remove one of the most troubling objections to human stem cell research : right now, the only valid egg cells for human cloning are human eggs - aka ovules. These must be obtained from real women, which leads to technical and ethical problems (I know that in the US selling ovules is already common practice but in Europe things are quite different). At any rate, a woman can only produce one egg per month, so this is a poorly productive method.

    (The other solution for obtaining stem cells is to suppress the cloning phase and to directly take existing human stem cells out of embryos - there again, moral problems arise if commercial forces are ever allowed in this game).

    Making human stem cells with animal eggs suppress most of these problems. The only big problem that remains is simply that so far, it didn't work. Now these people claim that they have made "mostly human" stem cells with rabbit eggs, but will they have the same capacitie as purely human stem cells ? Could the mitochondrial (rabbit) DNA interfere with the functioning of the cell ? These are the important questions now. According to this article, the paper seems to address none of them.

    Thomas Miconi
    =============

  53. Probably not viable by Sgt+York · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I hate to break in on all the jokes with a serious comment, but...

    These probably would not survive gestation. There are factors spread out in a specific manner in an egg which tell the various parts of the embryo what to become, and when. Imagine the egg as a bag of concentration gradients, going along at least three axes, several gradients per axis. As the cell divides, these become compartmentalized into individual cells. You now have scores of little bags with codes to each one, the code being the concentration of several factors (factors ABCDE having respective concentrations of 4,3,1,2,6 or 5,4,0,8,9). At certain times, these factors come together and give signals that tell that cell or group of cells to become a certain progenitor tissue type. Differentiation goes further after that, with cells "deciding" what to become based on what kind of cell is nearby.

    Many of the signals would be similar between human and rabbit, but probably not enough to make a viable human, or viable anything else for that matter. The rabbit DNA control sequences targeted by the factors that are in the egg would probably be too different from the sequences with similar function in human DNA. This would permit the embryos to survive through several divisions, and probably form simple embryos (mammals are very similar until the fetus stage....even then, it's hard to tell sometimes). But it would probably never make it through gestation. Probably.

    --

    There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.

  54. Whiteman cometh by Iowaguy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does this mean in near the near future, these rabbitmen will lead to a whiteman who could jump?

    --
    "He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
  55. Does the logic work for computers too? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "I think because all the nuclear DNA is human," Doerflinger said, "we'd consider this an organism of the human species."

    I think because all the ROM code is extracted from a Macintosh, we'd consider a PC running this emulator a system of the Macintosh platform.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  56. In 10 years, China will take lead in biotech by Cryofan · · Score: 2

    all because we are so stupid as to let the taboo-loving reactionaries such as Joe Sixpack and Dubya do our thinking for us.

    --
    eat shiat and bark at the moon
  57. Happy conception day to yoooooou.... by Sven+The+Space+Monke · · Score: 2, Funny
    Do you celebrate your conception day?

    Jebus H Christ, man! Have you seen my parents?!? I don't want to think of my conception AT ALL! I like to think that I was unceremoniously dropped down the chimney by a big, hairy pterodactyl.

    --
    A man who can't pronouce "nuclear arsenal" shouldn't have one -sig ends here.
    1. Re:Happy conception day to yoooooou.... by Sven+The+Space+Monke · · Score: 3, Funny
      It was a Calvin & Hobbes reference.

      Actually, I was a c-section baby. Tried to strangle myself with the umbilical cord. I heard the Bee Gees and decided I wanted no part of this world.

      --
      A man who can't pronouce "nuclear arsenal" shouldn't have one -sig ends here.
    2. Re:Happy conception day to yoooooou.... by 72beetle · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, I was a c-section baby.

      Hey, me too! You can't tell by looking at me, but whenever I leave the house, I have to go out the window.

      </stephenwright>

      -72

      --
      -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
  58. Science:Cloning Yields Fodder For Tabloids! by flyneye · · Score: 2, Funny

    Its a Chinese Plot to undermine intellegent thought in the free world.How many people will have to stand in que,waiting to make a purchase while their minds are numbed stupid with front page stories in the Enquirer,Sun,World News,People,Time,Washington Post and other enemies of intellegent life on this planet?
    "The Amazing Rabbit Boy!"
    "Rabbit Boy Sets World Record In Sports"
    "Rabbit Boy Talks To Animals"
    "Rabbit Boy Abducted By Aliens"
    "Rabbit Boy Cures Poison Ivy With Saliva"
    "Rabbit Boy Democratic Hopeful For California"
    (its enough to make you chew your own foot off,isn't it?)

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
  59. Possible answer by Walkiry · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To this question from the article: Some wondered aloud what, exactly, such a creature would be if it were transferred to a womb to develop to term.

    Out of curiosity I went to the NCBI webpage to check both the rabbit and human Mitochondrial DNA. As you can see, the same genes are present in both organisms. This is not always the case, as different species have the mitochondrial genes split between the mitochondrion and the nucleus in different shares.

    If you then bother to run blastn with both sequences (or even better, tblastx) you can see the similarities between coding regions are around 75% or more.

    The more important a gene is in an organism, the less likely it will mutate over generations (and thus the less different it'll be between different species). Mitochondrial genes are quite important, so the rabbit mitochondria might work very well with a human nucleus.

    Bottom line? If those cells can actually grow to become a fetus, chances are that fetus won't really be much different from any other human fetus. It's more likely to fail its development because of how crude our clonin technology is at this point than because of the genetic differences.

    --
    ---- Take the Space Quiz!
  60. Re:The No. 1 Reason... by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not really - mitochondria, as I understand it, work at a pretty basic level, generating ATP from fairly basic biological material (fatty acids, glucose, etc.). They're sort of the 'last step' in the long and complex chain of conversions called 'metabolism'.

    Also as I understand it, mitochondria across all procaryotes (anything with cell nuclei, i.e. 'not bacteria') are all derived from the same ancestral bacterium that first formed a cooperative partnership with another cell, and are still fairly similar. The amount of energy they produce as individual cells shouldn't vary all that much - the total energy production from them will be much more influenced by how MANY there are.

    If a fetus described in the article developed to term, it'd be human. If it were male, the chances are very slim any of the rabbit DNA would be passed on to his children as well (very nearly all mitochondrial DNA comes from the mother - it used to be thought that it was literally all, but evidently there are rare exceptions). Within a generation or two all of the rabbit DNA would be diluted completely out of the gene pool again...

    Unless you believe in homeopathy, in which case the magic vibrations of the rabbit DNA molecules would be maginified thousands of times in the process of being diluted away and you'd end up with an unstoppable army of giant humanoid rabbits....

  61. Re:The No. 1 Reason... by Walkiry · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the mitochondrial DNA (ie, the building blocks of the mitochondria) are from a rabbit, then would not, theoretically, the person in question have the metabolism of a rabbit?

    Most mitochondrial protein genes are actually in the nucleus. There are only a few "house keeping" genes and the DNA for tRNAs in the mitochondrion, and chances are these would probably work to some extent with the human proteins.

    is a human shaped / sized organism with a metabolism designed for a rabbit sized organism.

    At the mitochondria level the metabolism is pretty much the same (mitochondria do one thing that is important, creating ATP from NADH and FADH2 via the electron transport, which is pretty much the same in every organism, as well as most of their metabolism), it's the whole interaction of the organism (via hormones, nervous system and cell-cell interactions) what differentiates the metabolism of different organisms, and for that the genes present in the nucleus far outweight the importance of mitochondrial genes.

    --
    ---- Take the Space Quiz!
  62. Re:Island of Dr. Moreau by RLW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes I read the article.

    Perhaps I was thinking about one of the possible consequences of this line of research.

    It does pose other ethical questions just on its on. From the very bottom of the article
    _
    Richard Doerflinger, of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said he felt certain that the human-rabbit embryos were human enough to deserve protections.

    "I think because all the nuclear DNA is human," Doerflinger said, "we'd consider this an organism of the human species."
    _

    It begs one of the most basic questions of human existence: are we ghosts in the machine or are we purely material beings?

    If we are ghosts in the machine then the bodies we inhabit are a temporary form of existence that will be transcended. So the risk for the future can not be in complete jeopardy regardless of what we do to the bodies of future generations.

    From a materialist point of view I should think that this is more frightening. The very definition of self for future generations is potentially at stake. Genetic manipulation brought about the prospect of designer babies but that was generally limited to human DNA or even limited the potential to selecting which genetic traits a baby will have from it's parents (as in Gataca). But raises the specter of animal DNA getting in to the mix.

    Perhaps it is too far off for you and I specifically to worry about but they day will come when these are real concerns. Perhaps sooner than later.

  63. Sluggites Unite by fcs-error · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is only the begining! Bun-Bun is coming!

  64. What moral Dilemma? by en_0ne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The way that (real) stem cells are collected (or used to be collected) is in such a way that no moral dilemma exists anyway. When a woman goes in for artificial insemination, several eggs are removed from her body. These eggs are all impregnated a once, and then cryogenically frozen (-500 C). These eggs are defrosted one at a time and put back inside the womans uterus. This process continues until a child is born. Then all of the embryos that could have become humans are (get this) thrown away. Those embryos are the stem cells that can really become _anything_ that they are exposed to. Cells from things like placenta (and very possibly rabbits) are already biased and not truely stem cells.

    What, I ask you, moral dillema exists when given a choice between studying these embryos and throwing them away. It is not as if these embyos are going to ever become viable fetuses either way.

  65. C'mon slashdotters, think! by HiggsBison · · Score: 2, Funny
    Yes we've got some new high tech monster here.

    But where are all the 21st century equivalents of pitchforks and torches? Can't we storm the castles with some kind of laser thingy or something? Wifi? RC helicopters? Man-made diamond pitchforks?

    This is supposed to be about nerd stuff. Not some 'armless little bunny-rabbit.

    --
    My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
  66. not another one?! by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh great, now Bugs Bunny will also be able to run for Governor of Califorina.