QuakeCon 2003 Coverage - More On Doom III

Thanks to GameSpy for their series of reports from this year's QuakeCon, currently being held in Dallas, Texas. As well as a general preview article and a set of pictorials on the massive LAN party, the first-day reports focus on in-depth multi-player impressions of Doom III. The preview talks of "'per-pixel hit accuracy' - it's now possible to watch a rocket pass under a player's arm" and singles out "the ragdoll effects produced when hitting players with the rocket launcher, sending them flying in every direction" for the up to four-player deathmatch modes set in a Martian industrial facility.

Comments

What about co-op?

[xmurf]

Doom 3 should be all about CO-OP.

It would make it a little bit less scary, I think, but deathmatch on DooM III is just plain dumb.

Anybody knows if there will be co-op in the final build? All I've read about is vs. games.

Re:What about co-op?

[Echnin]

There won't be, unfortunately. :(

Quote:
"Will there be a co-op mode?
"Definitely not :("

Re:What about co-op?

[antdude]

I agree. DOOM 3 should have co-op like the original game. I would love to see more of this for games.

Re:What about co-op?

[miruku]

when the plans for doom 3 were announced (or was it when quake 4 was announced?), there was mention of a specifically co-op game to be developed using the d3 engine. its in an old press release from a year or so ago iirc.

Re:What about co-op?

[miruku]

from the recent homelan quakecon 2003 article;

"When asked by an audience member about what the status was of the Nerve Software team based multiplayer game that was announced at QuakeCon two years ago, Hollenshead dodged the question somewhat, saying only that the game was in some sort of development but that no further news on that project would be mentioned until a more formal announcement is made."

Only Four Players

[MBCook]

The article mentions that Doom III only supports four players at once. Does anyone know why this is? Could you point me to a link with an explanation? If they were to limit it, I would expect it to be a little higher at least, maybe 8. But 4?

Re:Only Four Players

[ComputerSlicer23]

Read up on what Carmack has said in the past. The Doom III game is oriented around being a single player game. The game engine is built assuming that there is not latency. He's been pretty clear, he wanted to make a game that was a great Single Player game. He wants it to be scary. He wants you to be on the edge of your seat.

He's talked about various design decisions he made to make the visuals impressive, and stunning that he knows directly contradict the goals of good game multi-player game play. He learned a lot about internet play, and dealing with latency, and multiple players resolving a situation in the same way when they have different information and different times. About dealing with somebody fragging you while never rendered while in that position, while making Quake. I get the impression he's tired of solving those problems, and would like to attack the problems of visually impressive. He wanted to make a visual stunning game. If you don't like it, send him the message by not buying it.

It's the game he wants to make. It's my understanding that the basics of the game engine will be tweaked for multi-player and used in Quake 4.

Kirby

Re:Only Four Players

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that, and playing with 4 players on a dedicated server with latency 5 at 640 resolution is a slideshow.

Re:Only Four Players

[joeytsai]

Maybe because the xbox is a 4-player machine? ~shrug~

Re:Only Four Players

[ThePyro]

Today at QuakeCon the id guys specifically stated that the 4 player limit was completely arbitrary and that it would be relatively simple for mod makers to up the player limit to 8 or so. However, the game is definitely peer-to-peer instead of client/server, so anything more than 8 players may really be pushing it unless you've got a beast of a machine (to handle the incredibly high-poly character models and extra lights) and are playing on a LAN.

Sounds like

[Drakin]

We're taking a step backwrds, with limiting the multiplayer games to 4 players.

While it adds to the need for tactics rather than the run around shooting everywhere, there's something to be said for playing larger objective oriented shooters.

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

there's something to be said for playing larger objective oriented shooters.

Yes, and that "something" is "go play one, 'cause this ain't it".

Id's obviously going in a completely different direction here- they're making a first person horror game, something that (to my knowledge) nobody's done. Semi-massively multiplayer deathmatch just doesn't fit. What's scarier, really? A hoard of teleporting space-jumping yahoos bouncing around an egyptian temple... or one guy feverishly hunting you down in dark hallways?

Not to mention that, from the sound of it, their engine couldn't handle many more than 3 players on screen at once (and then, with the co-op...) I guess that's what you get for uber-detailed characters.

Re:Sounds like

[Mike Hawk]

If you want to play a tactical objective based shooter, play that. Doom = Deathmatch. Its really that simple. All games are different and come from different places. Different = good. Choices = good.

Re:Sounds like

[NanoGator]

"We're taking a step backwrds, with limiting the multiplayer games to 4 players."

Does it? The big difference is that it becomes more about tactics than about firing rockets all over the place.

I remember playing Q2 with only 4 people on the lan at work. Those games were often more interesting than playing with 16 players on the net. More time was afforded in finding good places to hide.

I remember being the first to find a 'shadow' (well back then it was just a dark spot) that I couldn't be seen in. That was a cool day.

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

Q!=D

Re:Sounds like

[imitier]

I'd probably classify System Shock 2 as a first person horror game. And that had co-op.

Re:Sounds like

[Echnin]

Wow. That looks like a dude with a skullcap. Nice work!

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt, I enjoy smaller games. It's much more personal. The ideal size for deathmatch is 4-6 players if you ask me.

Re:Sounds like

[Tyreth]

The problem is that 4 players *seriously* inhibits the potential for mods based on this engine. What is counterstrike with 2vs2? Natural selection? Urban terror? So many multiplayer mods need more than 4 players. This renders the D3 engine near useless for most multiplayer modding.

Which is why I find it very hard to believe that they have restricted it to 4. My guess is the engine is capable of more (for mods) and that the game distributed with the engine (Doom 3) just has 4 player only maps, and is balanced around that.

Re:Sounds like

[Twister002]

Check out Clive Barker's Undying. It's a First-Person horror game and it's in the bargain bin.

Re:Sounds like

[Twister002]

Well how about some mods that only require 2v2 or 1v1? Rocket Arena, in some modes, is a 1v1 game. Not being able to have spectators spoils the fun.

My understanding is that the Doom3 engine is the basis for Quake4 as well. Quake4 will have more than 4 players. But I can't imagine what kind of machine you'll have to have to calculate "rag doll physics" for 32 players at once, not to mention for the entire world.

Re:Only Four Players cause thats the way it is

[Mike Hawk]

Your expectation is arbitrary. If the maps and gameplay are designed for 4 players, why would someone want 8?

What would be truly badass....

[Sevn]

Is if you could play one of the monsters as a character in multiplayer. :)

Re:What would be truly badass....

[Gherald]

Maybe just humaniod monsters... because otherwise there would be too much surface area and volume discrepancy for it to be fair.

Re:What would be truly badass....

[miruku]

it will be interesting to see what id does in regards to third party deathmatch models now its all per-poly hit detection; officially approve good ones, leave it up to server admins, or third party sites like poly count..

The 4 player limit is NOT a hard one

[fredrikj]

It can and will be raised in modifications.

Doom 3

[NewsWare]

Well i am looking forward to play this game and get my own opinion.

At this place do they have movies, patches and a lot of screenshots!

multiplayer

[Anonymous Coward]

Doom3 will be an excellent game. No doubt.

That said, what I dream about are the old days of idsoftware titles that would allow a multiplayer co-op that was essentially the same game in single player mode.

I know it's not going to happen with Doom3, but if you could co-op the same single player game, THAT would provide for some very enjoyable multiplayer gaming.