Slashdot Mirror
India Plans Moon Mission by 2008
LPetrazickis writes "According to the Tribune, Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee has announced today that India will send a spacecraft to the moon by 2008. The Chandrayaan-I mission will showcase Indian achievements in science and technology to the world. Both European and Canadian Space Agencies have shown interest in the mission. SifyNews reports that 2008 was initially mispronounced as 1908. Today is the 56th anniversary of India's independence." Previous talk about this has come from the Indian space agency; this announcement from the Prime Minister seems to have more weight.
Considering the amount of poverty in India I think they should put less money into space research and more into feeding their people.
Imagine your tech support calls being rerouted to the moon.
I guess this is better than spending all that energy working on better nukes.
Oh wait. Now they are building long range rocket technology... Crap maybe this isn't better than just working on nukes.
I wish them the best of luck, but from what I read in the article they just recently launched their first satellite. Seems very ambitous to think in 5 years they can get a man on the moon safely from this level of technology. The chinese are still having issues and imho they're far more advanced than india in terms of a space program. All in all, we can always use more countries giving the USA the proper boot in the ass to start a mars program. Our huge claim to fame has been that we were the only nation ever to get on the moon, when a moon landing is so common that eventually you're hearing about ethiopias moon landing, it devalues the achievement. We need to get to mars, and ensure that new plateu for the rest of the world to achieve.
It is good that India and China are competing through science, and not through arms. Honestly, I don't see how this could be a bad thing for anyone. India and China will both make new scientific discoveries, and seeing them get into space may inspire the EU, the US and Russia to increase their space efforts.
I know lots of people are going to complain that India should be focusing their efforts on improving their living standards rather than going on wild adventures. But I don't think the one has to distract from the other. India actually has enough food to feed herself, its just a problem of social structure and education. And it is not as if the resources used for going into space make that great of a impact on the ability of India to educate its population. In economic terms, there isn't that great of a cost of space missions, because the resources that go into them can't really easily go anywhere else.
Please read the article. The plans call for a robotic probe to the moon.;)
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
Why? Because rocket programs are dual purpose. They can be used to deliver civilians and satellites into orbit, or they can be used to deliver to deliver nuclear warhead payloads.
And India is now a nuclear power.
In other words, India will end up with nuclear ICBMs.
Now, I don't have anything particular about India - I'd say this about any country. More countries having nuclear ICBM capability is simply not a recipe for world peace.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
They said they'll send a spacecraft to the Moon by 2008, not man.
They need to get large objects into space before they can put people in them. This is a great way to motivate themselves. Set a strong goal. And it's not like the spacecraft even needs to land on the moon safely. The first American and Russian Moon probes certainly didn't have soft landings. They were squished to a heap of garbage upon impact.
--Xandu
Wouldn't it be better to have a multi-national space station or deep space exploration? If every nation spends the money just to get a ship into space, and see what we already know, then what did we get out of it? I think it would be more productive to pool the resources of many nations and build something that one nation alone could not.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Starlight glittered from the chrome horns as the pressurized bovine arced up and out of Earth's gravity well.
Captain Raj blniked away a tear as he watched the earth diminish in size from his viewing station within the left eyeball of the craft.
The udders steadily increasing delta V that eventually carried the metal cow and the Indians up and over the moon and then back to earth descending gently into a McDonalds parking lot.
I wish India the best of luck in reaching the moon with an unmanned vehicle in 2008. Very ambitious.
With more countries demonstrating prowess in space technology, perhaps it will finally motivate the U.S. to get off our asses, reinvigorate our space ambitions and do something more meaningful than driving a bus three times a year into low Earth orbit to a bloated and finicky station that doesn't seem to be doing much more than Skylab did 30 years ago.
I must be in a grumpy mood...
Americans never landed on the moon. Don't be silly.
They can just take one of those nuclear weapons from their ongoing cold war with Pakistan, strap it onto a chimp's back and let 'er fly!
Now, I'm not a rocket scientist, but that sounds pretty feasible.
Wrong, India sent a man in Space over 15 years ago. Rakesh Sharma became the First Indian Astronaut in 1984 along with the Russians. Check this
Maybe we will respect the middle east now that they have the same abilities as us, this does not mean anything, the soviets have had nuke for years and years.
I dont really care if India has nuke, and I doubt they'd put it in space unless we do it first, its insane to put it in space but I see them doing it to protect themselves from us, I mean we are willing to go to war just because we want to without going through the UN, I wouldnt blame India for being alittle bit scared of us.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
They said they'll send a spacecraft to the Moon by 2008, not man.
Indeed. India has scores of mystics who walk around on the moon with their astral bodies every day, so that wouldn't be anything new. But bringing along a craft, now that's exciting!
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
It's a good feeling to know that the fine proud and proper Brahmins in Delhi feel no sense of responsibility at all for the helping the hundreds of thousands of the poorest, most hopeless, most destitute people in the world begging on the streets of Calcutta.
It's truely astonishing how they could delude themselves into believing that they actually hundreds of millions of dollars (billions of rupees) to piss away on a space program.
Having been to India and having had waded through hundreds of beggars willing to sell their children for pennies, I will never again feel that I am a member of the most cold, insensitive, and heartless culture on the earth.
No, I'll just think the corrupt racist demented Indian bureaucrat who thought that his people needed a space program. Compared to him, I'll never feel corrupt, racist, and demented again.
A little bit of added competition in the space arena is exactly what is needed. The more countries that put their space programs on the map, the more pressure there is for the larger space programs to stay on top of things.
I think this could be a very good thing for even more expansion in space.
And even if the pressure isn't put in other programs, it's still an increase in the space research being done.
Current indian rockets (PSLV and GSLV) which place a few tons into space already give them the long range missile tech know how. Its not weaponized right now (i believe).
..... ... india has always stood for complete nuclear disarmament. The stated position is that once a NON-DESCRIMINATORY (not like npt) treaty is in place, it will give up nukes.
.. i still cant understand the logic behind the reasoning that some countries have an inherent right to keep nuclear weapons, while the rest should live without them. Why dont we all give it up???
and besides
Btw
Life is just a conviction.
I think it's a good thing that countries like India and China have their sights set at the moon.
The sooner we start mining the He3 up there, the better.
For the whole planet's sake, we've gotta start colonising the moon.
that is 96.5 million dollars (assuming 1 dollar is 40 rupees). "Titanic" - movie cost more than twice as much. Lets hope that this does better than the titanic. 1 crore = 100 lakhs. 10 lakhs = 1 million.
India's Moon probe will be equipped with a record-breaking 100 robotic arms.
More countries having nuclear ICBM capability is simply not a recipe for world peace.
I'd much prefer if nobody had any nukes, but living in a country that has its own, I certainly can't blame another country for joining the Look Ma, I Can Blow Stuff Up club.
Besides, I'd venture to say that a belief in karma is a stronger deterrent to actually using them than a belief in MAD.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Please stop this nonsense about wasting money on the space programme when there are hungry mouths to feed. The money spent just doesn't vaporize into nowhere. It is spend on equipment(to manufacture which, ppl are employed and paid),scientists(who would spend the money) all resulting in money trickling down to the lowest part of the economy. This is not abt wasting money. Its about using it to do something productive.
I think this trip to the moon is especially significant since unlike the last time India made a very high-profile foray into space, it will be doing so on its own. In 1984, Rakesh Sharma became the first Indian to go into space. However, he was carried there by the Russians on a Soyuz T-11. This time, the vehicle will be conducted by the Indians and it won't be carried out through the generosity of Russia.
Also, technological progress is a positive disruptive influence on Indian society. This mission will add to the numerous changes that have come about in India recently, both economically and socially.
Posting messages for the betterment of humanity..
and the argument would be wrong.
does that sound even faintly like the united states in 1969?
source: the cia
2 1337 4 u!
Now we're outsourcing our fucking astronauts?
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Iraq - no nukes - gets invaded - lots of dead people on both sides. (and counting). N Korea has nukes - no sign of it getting invaded - nobody has died.
US makes technology advancements = benefit of humanity
Other country does the same = War/Terrorism
Quite simple actually!
So tell me Einstein, what precisely would they do with the money instead? Airdrop it for everybody? Well, it would be a bit painful if they use coins, but hey, I'll endure anything if it means more money.
The slated budget, Rs. 300 crores, works out to 3 billion rupees. Given a population of 1 billion people, that's 3 rupees per person. That's a lot of people who're gonna get terribly rich.
Of course, there's income tax at 33%, so that leaves 2 rupees. Gives a whole new meaning to taxation at source, huh? And then the obligatory bribe. Lets peg that at a modest 50%. That leaves us with 1 rupee per person.
Yippee! Show me the money!
BTW, the current rate of exchange is about 45 rupees to the dollar.
and whether this a good thing or not.
You can't throw money at poverty and expect the problem to go away. The urban renewal projects in the inner cities of America proved that. The underlying reasons for poverty must be addressed.
Yes, a moon mission won't do a damn thing for poverty directly but it will move a nation forward technologically so that people that were once making carpets or driving taxis can now make rockets and drive spaceships. A poor nation technologically will result in a poor populace. Call centres and computer software engineering have pushed India incrementally ahead already, to deny those moves forward to "solve" the poverty issue is to simply perpetuate their impoverishment.
With the moves forward in technology and the education that surrounds such improvements you have a population that will not accept low paying jobs when they have skills far beyond them. In a few decades you have economic growth that will eventually push low paying jobs to other areas of the world; eventually and hopefully you end up with a world where Nike or Rebook can't make their shit anywhere for less than a reasonable wage.
That's my theory, but the hell do I know.
There are always some very negative comments when stories like these appear. China and India are both very large countries and after a sort of sleep of almost a century they are stirring up. These kind of space programs are inevitable, there will come from the sheer momentum of what is happening in these countries today. I grew up in India and now I spend a lot of time in China. So I would like to say some thing from this perspective, Some years ago, I used to teach some classes at CDAC (center for development of advanced computing) at Bangalore, India. At that time they were working on building a supercomputer. There were a lot of critics who said that the money could be spent on the upliftment of the poor. Today CDAC exports this computer. And think of the knowledge and expertise and the project management skills that came of this project. Similarly, the moon project is a "killer demo app" for the Indian space and allied industry. The knowledge and the expertise would raise other high tech industry and help them in selling their services. Also, unknown to many India has a good space science research program. Outside Pune there is the Giant Meter wave Radio Telescope (http://www.ncra.tifr.res.in/) and in Ladhak they have the Himalayan Chandra Telescope, the highest observatory in the world. There are institutions that are active in fundamental particle research (TIFR http://www.tifr.res.in/). So there is more to India's space program then just brag. The politicians need the "brag" but ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) has been always very humble and always pre-announces all its launches and gives detailed information on failed launches too . Compare this to the Chinese agency which only announces the launch after it has been successful. In India there is a deep interest in space sciences in general. I remember as a school kid, us being taken to planetariums. Translated Russian space books were very popular- I remember one book - The sun's wind written by Alexei Leonov (the first man to space walk). Our HSC (A level) English text had some science fiction too. There were and still are active astronomy clubs and societies. In the 80s, when we had only one TV channel, Carl Sagan's Cosmos was one of the few foreign programs that was aired along with regular re-runs of the original Star Trek and Fireball XL-5 (anyone remembers this.. it was a puppet animation). So what I am saying is - yes there is poverty and lot of other things that need fixing, but these things just don't get fixed by putting money. What the current Indian leaders are hoping to do is to create programs that inspire people (or as the current Indian president likes to say "Ignite Minds". The president APJ Abdul Kalam is a Space Scientist BTW). These kinds of ventures encourage a farm worker to put his kids in school because he sees where the country is heading and where his kids have a better future.
Why does everyone automatically assume that this was a mistake?!
.The stated aim of the mission is to
The Indian government want to show off the advances they have made in time travel!
flossie
Write now. Defend liberty
Scientifically, there's no reason you can't do this. The trick is to go at night.
The obvious drawback is they'll have to use the battery-powered kind of flashlight.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
America didnt and STILL DOESNT have a public health system
America still practices the barbaric practice of execution by electric chair (Don't even get me started on guantanamo bay)
America's gun crime is the highest per capita of any in the world
America's welfare program is hardly fair
Every country larage and small has it's problems, and I wish for one minute that American's would stop pretending they lived in a perfect country, stop dashing off to solve (*cough* create) problems in other countries and take a good long hard look at their own country.
Prejudice is a troll, but you were modded up, so too bad you didn't take time to RTFArticles.
This is a moonshot that costs about one-ninth to one-sixth of a shuttle launch. The European and Canadian Space Agencies are interested. India has traditionally received technological support from the Russian programme, but it's cheaper to use indigenous launch vehicles, no matter how threatened USA feels by large markets (even if the population is poor) being independent. And this is an exploration mission as a prelude to commercial missions. So why would India spend money on this and what does the market have to do with it?
Because India's space programme launches communications satellites which, like TCP/IP over railway communications lines, bring literacy to remote villages. Yes the schools in the villages need satellite dishes and the railroad stations need network stations, but the government provides them!
Because India's space programme launches weather satellites which, along with the communications satellites, help farmers in isolated regions to increase their yields.
Because with Japan and China shooting for the moon while NASA stagnates, India wants to position itself now as a contender for lunar mining and lunar transit station operations for deep space missions, services for which other countries (like ESA and CSA) and private companies worldwide will pay . And that money can be used to feed people!
Imagine that, creating high tech jobs to help farmers grow more food and to sell services to the global market and use the money to educate and feed more people.
With Congress cutting NASA's budget, how much of the savings are used to help feed poverty stricken Americans?
Just maybe the Indian space program will encourage and inspire young people there to take up careers in science and engineering. Read 'the October sky' sometimes. In the long term, engineers, economists, and teachers will put more food on the nation's table than social workers handing out food stamps. Inspiration, determination and a little pride in one's own country can accomplish much...
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I fully agree that space exploration is worth dying for. But making death seem funny is a tricky matter, requiring - I think - a lot more absurdity than you put into it. Here, let me give it a try:
July 20, 2008 4:17 PM
New record breaking moon crater
Seven hours before its scheduled moon landing, the Indian spacecraft Chandrayaan-I was forced to shut down its flight control systems when SCO revoked its license to run Linux. Attempting to boot Windows 2009, the crew experienced a general protection fault and remained on hold with tech support in Bangalore for 5 hours and 23 minutes while support personnel dealt with callers from the US who were having trouble installing the newly released Service Pack 19 for SuckOS on their MicroSoft vacuum cleaners.
Once their call was finally accepted, the crew unfortunately had just enough time to give their license and billing information before their ship collided with the lunar surface, creating the largest artificial moon crater to date, 60 meters in diameter and approximately 200 meters deep. In honor of its creators, the new lunar surface feature - easiliy visible from earth using binoculars - has been named Darl And Bill's Hole.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Typical illeterate and pretentious American comment: one, they plan to send a probe, not astronauts (you didn't read the article), and two, you suppose that because they're indians, they'll fail. Time to upgrade you power grid, while Indians go on the moon, son.
For all those who have been whining about the state of India's finances and poverty levels, let me add that the PM in his Independence Day speech (think State of the Union) is also building highways, creating jobs in rural areas, not to mention modernizing our ports and major airports.
May I also add that India's external finances are in great shape ( a $6.5tn deficit comes to mind, cough cough ) and we are at present reorganizing our expensive debt.
We are sitting on so much cash, (and soon, low interest debt) that for the first time, India has become a lender nation.
Inflation is static at just under 2%, the Indian rupee has been holding its ground against all international currencies. Duties are being lowered, tariffs and trade barriers are being slashed, capital and bond markets are flourishing -- why the hell can't we have a moon mission?
Agreed, poverty and health problems cannot be disregarded, but to say this money would be better spent anywhere else is just stupidity -- India has long prided herself on her space programme -- we have great comm satellites and have been launching them since the early '70s, and a moon probe is a logical next step.
Finally, the moon probe is just one proposal among many, and slashdot readers, or at least those posting derogatory comments, need to keep a sense of proportion.
shooting is not too good for my enemies
outsource the development to india....
oh wait.
Where does india go to oursource stuff?
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Mabey this will give NASA som clout to go to Congress with an aggressive plan to conquer the Red Planet before the 2nd tier space nations go where USA has gone before.
This will also be interresting in terms of the tech spinoffs. Remember, the tech had to be INVENTED for the 1969 moon flight. What is possible with todays tech and how will this expand our understanding of the application of todays 'best tech'?
I am the Barber of Seville.
The solution, for both the USA and India, is a cheaper space program. Use X-Prize type prizes to enable entreprenuers to evolve cheap re-usable spacecraft. NASA and government organisations are no good at this - their infrastructure is too expensive for the commercialisation of space.. $600 million per shuttle launch?? come on guys..
When you give free food to a hungry unemployed poor person, they're still unemployed, poor, and will get hungry again.
You don't reduce poverty by giving food to poor people. You reduce poverty by creating more jobs for more people. Building technology is a good way to do that.
Your's is a common, well-meaning notion driven by compassion. But it's wrong. Yes, feed the hungry, but if you stop there and don't create an economy that enables them to support themselves, all you've done is to create a permanent dependent underclass.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I don't know if this jab at the current state of the US is meant to be sarcastic, but here are some more realistic figures for those who are curious.
(from the CIA World Factbook and other sources as listed)
1. 3% of the US population is illiterate
2. 12.7% of the US is under the US poverty line, defined as an individual earning less than USD 8,860 a year. The Indian poverty line, by comparison, is defined by the world bank to be earning less than USD 365 a year (from Poverty USA and India Watch).
3. Infant mortality in the US is not 10/1000. It is 6.75/1000. That is not the lowest in the world, but the figure ranks among most developed nations. Cholesterol-related teenager deaths? While the USA is getting too fat, causing a rise in diabetes in young people, I have not heard of a rise of teenage heart attacks or teenage heart disease fatalities, so I think your theory is way off. The obesity problem bodes poorly for lifespan and healthcare costs, but not so much for teenage mortality.
4. I won't dispute this last point much. The deficit now is ridiculous, and it was equally ridiculous when we went to the moon ourselves. Such spending is certainly not sustainable over the long haul. However, comparing deficit-per-capita means nothing without considering the deficit as percent of money brought in. A 30 billion deficit on 50 billion collected, as in India (if the previous posts were correct), is 60%, compared to $600 billion on 2 trillion, which is around 30%.
However, budget deficits aside, I think the point most people have is that India has many more places it should be spending its money other than space and nuclear weapons. Beside the high poverty in India, the caste system still rears its ugly head in the rural areas, which hampers development.
The Economist recently did a feature comparing China and India, basically showing how much farther China is ahead of its neighbor.
--Scott
From your link is sounds like Russia sent the first Indian into space. Which is a little different than India sending an astronaut into space.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I know this isn't related to the topic at hand, but:
Some of you are saying India should spend its money on helping reduce poverty, others are saying this space program will do this indirectly.
The reality is, US has a land area of just over 9 million sq km. India has a land area of just over 3 million sq km.
Considering the fact that US has more resourceful land, and has a population less than 1/3 of India, isn't the main problem population?
India celebrated when they reached 1 billion. I think the real celebration should be when they go back under 1 billion (if that ever happens).
But yes I do think this space program definitely has a better affect on the national economy than just giving food/money away.
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.