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Carmack On Doom 3, Quake II Remix

Posted by simoniker on from the hail-to-the-leader dept.

Thanks to GameSpy for their interview with id Software's John Carmack, as part of their continuing QuakeCon coverage. Subjects include whether he'll retire after Doom 3 is done ("No. I've got at least one more rendering engine to write"), what id will be working on next ("Our next game is not going to be a DOOM, Quake, or Wolfenstein sequel, it's going to be something new and that is a foregone conclusion"), and smaller ideas they're considering, but not necessarily working on ("...[to] take Quake II, and just use the DOOM engine to make brand new graphic models and everything. But don't spend time messing with the gameplay because we know that is pretty good. Just release it as Quake II Remix with brand new graphics technology and sell it at a middle-level price.")

38 comments

  1. Phew! by Isbiten · · Score: 1

    Carmack makes the best engines, not the best games but the best games :) Imagine where we would be with out him.

    --
    I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
  2. Re: Quake 2 Remix... by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't believe the Doom 3 engine is capable of some of the things that the Quake 2 engine is, such as 32 player deathmatch. But hey, if they do it, I'll sure as hell buy it, as long as it is kept network compatible with the old clients (Hard to do, but not impossible, methinks.)

  3. Dot re-rendering? by wadeb · · Score: 5, Funny

    I love it when not so technical people interview John Carmack :)

    I'm guessing he meant Dot3 rendering.

    1. Re:Dot re-rendering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "John Carmack sits at the end of an enormous boardroom table in a hotel conference hotel room."
      "You come back in and it's world's tallest roller coaster ride."
      "You two or three monoliths and a few government contractors."

      Sheesh, set up a paypal account and I'll donate a quarter for GameSpy to hire a real editor.

  4. Re: Quake 2 Remix... by Methuseus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about releasing a net patch for the old client to make it net compatible with the remixed Quake 2? That, in theory, should be easier (and better performance) than making the new game backwards compatible.

    --
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
  5. Re: Quake 2 Remix... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quake 2 is capable of 64 players. id released a couple huge maps for that many people and at least one mod (Gloom) has thier main server running at 40 players.

  6. bringing back shareware? by fatgraham · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Midlevel priced games? smaller projects?
    could id be what the consumers need to kickstart the successfull(in shops) re-emergance of shareware?

    1. Re:bringing back shareware? by rkz · · Score: 1

      or freeware.

      --
      There is no god
  7. Well... by DiscoOnTheSide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When Carmack retires, I'm going to wear all black and act like I'm in a funeral procession. Why? Cause the man has been my God since lessee....5TH GRADE (junior in college now) and when he goes there won't be anyone with his magic touch to replace him. Sweeny's UT2003 engine work was nice, but I dont feel he's up to innovating something like a Doom3 level engine. The closest I figure will be the guys writing the Source engine at Valve. Without Carmack FPSes are gonna SUCK.

    --
    Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
    1. Re:Well... by illumina+us · · Score: 2, Interesting

      that's odd, the most popular FPS todate is a mod for an engine that carmack did not write. Well, the HL engine may be a heavily modified Quake II engine which is a heavily modified Quake engine. So the most popular FPS, Counter-Strike, is a mod for an engine that is a mod of a mod of an engine (that Carmack did write). Ditto.

      --
      -illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
    2. Re:Well... by mrpuffypants · · Score: 1

      Well, the difference you see between Carmack and others is that when a new engine comes out from id we can all say "Fuck! Carmack did this and he kicked fucking ass!" whereas other companies have entire teams to do the same thing.

      Excuse the language...just got back from a week at QuakeCon 2003 :)

  8. Quake2 Remix? Cool! by Sandman1971 · · Score: 1

    If they make this happen, this will be amazing. Online Quake2 is still my favorite game of all time. This would be very amazing to see.

    --
    It's better to burn out than to fade away
  9. wow quake2 in the doom3 engine.. by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1
    Pardon me while I drool.

    Quake2 ctf is still one of my favorite games of all time. I don't think I need say more.

    --

    Liberty.

  10. Check out Tenebrae2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Tenebrae project has been working with the GPL Quake engine to create Doom3-like graphics, and they are working on adopting this to Quake II (Tenebrae2)

    Link is here: http://tenebrae.sf.net

  11. GOATSE.CX Mirror in link! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1 'very inventive' to the troll though

    1. Re:GOATSE.CX Mirror in link! by BrynM · · Score: 1

      Gamespy should really lock down that "image.asp" file. Or are they using the stock MS example one? You know... The one that has the security structure of Win 3.11...

      --
      US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
  12. Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Quake 2 Remix? Id being typecast? This represents a sad state of affairs in regards to game development.

    Carmack is starting to plow over the same game concepts. Repackaging old game labels (Quake IV, "Quake II Remix") spells good fortune for a steady stream of income at Id, but does little for advancing innovative gameplay.

    Carmack, please take a chance at something new....

    1. Re:Sad by ubrkl · · Score: 1

      Carmack is a guy who writes engines, not makes games. If you RTFA, you'll see that Raven is doing Quake IV, not id.

    2. Re:Sad by ziggles · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The guy is set for life. You know that he's not going to work on something just for the money. He has the luxury of doing whatever he wants to do. That's all I ask of any game developer.. do what they want to do.. not what the fans want, not what will sell the most, just what you think is a good idea. Most likely you'll end up creating something that people will want to buy.

  13. His last game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    will be Daikatana 2.

  14. GSI sucks by mnemonic_ · · Score: 1

    GameSpy is good for its connections that provide exclusives, but the writing quality of its articles has always been poor.

  15. They got the imprtant issue out of the way by arunarunarun · · Score: 1

    > Just release it as Quake II Remix ...sell it at a middle-level price.

    <Igor>
    Yes. Yes! YES!
    </Igor>

  16. ID != gameplay innovation by AvantLegion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ID long stopped being about innovative gameplay. Anything innovative in terms of gameplay stopped at Quake 1, and any innovation there was more due to less technical restraints than anything else.

    ID is about technological innovation - creating the game engine that dozens of others will use as the springboard for their "innovations" (big or small as they may be). Half-Life is a good example of this at work.

  17. Contradiction with other id members by myoohn · · Score: 1, Informative

    In this inveterview (one day after gamespy's), on the second page, two id members say the reason why John C wasnt there for Q&A meeting the previous day....physically sick

    and John Carmack was talking to Gamespy?!

    1. Re:Contradiction with other id members by indead · · Score: 1

      Just because the articles were written a day apart doesn't mean the interviews were a day apart.

      It's also a lot easier to talk to a reporter in your hotel room then go on stage and address a huge crowd.

  18. Re:Sad (Why???) by rempelos · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Carmack only wants to build new and better 3D engines, he doesn't care so much about the game concept, he leaves that to others (Valve - Half Life, Activision - RTCW).

    Though he found an excelent FPS recipe for testing his creations (QUAKE1/2/3).

  19. Re: Quake 2 Remix... by Kynde · · Score: 1

    How about releasing a net patch for the old client to make it net compatible with the remixed Quake 2? That, in theory, should be easier (and better performance) than making the new game backwards compatible.

    Excellent point!
    Especially because the net protocol has gone a long way since Q2. Considering the play feel of quake3, which goes far beyond q2 (which was just essentially spiced up version of QuakeWorld net protocol).

    Though, I must say, I haven't heard a word of what it will be like in Doom-engine based games (namely Quake 2 remix in this case), but I'm guessin it will be atleast as good as quake3.

    --
    1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
  20. about Screenshots by Kynde · · Score: 1

    How about releasing some quality 1600x1200 or so screenshots aswell. I can't the only one keen on using such screenies as wallpapers...

    --
    1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
  21. That's exactly his point by ThePyro · · Score: 1
    From the interview,
    "Occasionally I desire to do a different kind of game. To a large degree, id Software is a prisoner of its own success. Because we are a single-title company, we have a strong obligation to do something that has relatively low risk ... I think real innovation will not necessarily come from triple-A titles. Triple-A titles have so much of an investment that it engenders a huge risk-aversion. I think that the real innovation will come from things that are done on a smaller budget, that might be targeted as budget titles."

    Thus as a "prisoner of its own success", id has difficulty justifying the risks associated with gameplay innovation.

  22. From what I remember by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    While Tenebrae2 might be Q2-based (I could've sworn it was a fork of the Q1-based Tenebrae though, without any of the released Q2 code), from everything I read, Tenebrae2 will not in any way be recognizable as Quake 2. Unlike Tenebrae, which can use Q1 maps and then load new textures for them, some of the docs indicated that Tenebrae2 would have a new (incompatible) map format.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  23. Noooooooooo... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Quake II Remix?

    Why not Quake I Remix?

    I absolutely hated Quake II's multiplayer. The single-player action was OK, but the multiplayer just felt WRONG.

    Now, classic Threewave CTF gameplay combined with a new engine, or the ORIGINAL QWTF ported up to a new engine but with the same gameplay... Puddles of drool are threatening to short out my keyboard.

    QII is the bastard child of the series. Everything about it just felt wrong. (Except the graphics, those were cool. :) Q3A was much better gameplay-wise for fans of the classic Quakeworld game mechanics. While out-of-the-box the CTF wasn't so hot, Threewave CTF for Q3A and Q3F (TeamFortress for Q3A) both come close to the fun of classic Threewave CTF and QWTF. No matter what mods I tried, Q2 CTF was never fun to play.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:Noooooooooo... by AndrewCox · · Score: 1

      Quake 2 Expert CTF was the ultimate multi-player game. I was addicted to that for a good solid 2 years at least. I'm talkin' 2-4 hours a day. No other multi-player experience had as fast action with the grappling hook and the regenerating weapons & health. Quake 3 just couldn't compete.

      --
      The Red Pill ... all I'm o
  24. Re: Quake 2 Remix... by Scooter · · Score: 1

    Versions of Quake2 weren't net compatible with each other!

    I'm not sure what you would hope to gain from making Doom 3 clients connect to old Q2 servers - the maps look like the maps look - it wouldn't look any funkier.

    As a Q2 fan I always felt that ID missed the point slightly with the MP game when Q3 was released. I didn't want a *new* game - I wanted the *old* game with up to date visuals. After all - MP FPS games are merely the playing field - not the game itself - that is supplied by its players. A football field does nothing in the game.

    But - like the man said, Doom 3 isn't primarily a MP game - it's back to the old fear inducing atmosphere that Doom and the single player Q2 provided, and the optimization rules are different for that.

  25. "Two major factors" by Allen+Varney · · Score: 1

    From the interview>

    The development of rendering engines is driven by two major factors. One of these is, of course, the question, "When you finish a game, is it time to write a new engine?" The answer is based on what is happening in the hardware space.

    Carmack goes on to discuss current hardware specs, but as far as I could tell, he never named the other major factor in the development of rendering engines. Were it anyone else but Carmack, I might assume it's, "Do we have the money to license an existing engine?" But that obviously doesn't apply here. Sorry to be braindead, but what is it?

  26. The next game by nutsy · · Score: 1

    Our next game is not going to be a DOOM, Quake, or Wolfenstein sequel...

    Note that he doesn't rule out the possibility of a Commander Keen sequel. Oh well, I can dream.

  27. Grappling hook... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    GH operation was the thing I hated the most about Q2 CTF... It just *felt wrong*.

    Nothing can compare to the original Threewave grapple-wise. It had some levels that were designed *beautifully* for the grapple. Threewave for Q3 has great hook operation, but thanks to the inclusion of CaptureStrike (bleh! Take a good game and ruin it by throwing in CounterStrike elements), most levels are designed to be fully playable without the grapple. (A few have jump pads depending on whether or not you have the grapple. But overall grapple action in Q3TWCTF is compromised thanks to CaptureStrike.)

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?