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Gov't Proposes Massive Homeless Tracking System
Chris Hoofnagle writes "The Dept. of Housing and Urban Development is proposing a massive system of tracking for homeless people and others who are served by shelters and care centers. The system will track people by their SSN, and will collect health (HIV, pregnancy) and mental information. Secret Service and national security agents can gain access to the database by just asking for it! EPIC has released a fact sheet on HMIS, and the public can comment on the guidelines until September 22, 2003, but no electronic comments are being accepted."
WozNet suppositories for everybody on Capitol Hill!
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Couldn't this money be spent in a better way? Better shelters, lower income housing, etc. We don't need to track them. We need to help remotivate them, and get them back into society.
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
Now if only we could track spammers this way.
So, the bottom line here is if you want government benefits you have to give up some privacy in order to get them. Why don't we just ear-tag the homeless with RFID's and track their migration like an endangered species?
There are a significant portion of the hard-core homeless that will simply stay off-grid, that's why they're homeless in the first place, they decline to participate. Now, these people won't be able to stay anonymous and get fed or get medical care from the government. My suspicion is that the govt. knows this well and is anticipating a reduction in cost while being able to issue press releases about the decline in the numbers of homeless as they stop coming to the clinics and kitchens.
This is analogous to the reports in the declining unemployment rate reflected in lower numbers of people collecting unemployment insurance. It doesn't count the people that have given up, or have turned to the black/gray market for a living.
The best way to do is to be.
Fine with me. So long as you also provide the list to Habitat for Humanity
While I understand how Privacy Advocates might go to arms over this, I think there are benefits to the people who are tracked.
As I recall, there have been instances in the past where mentally handicapped have been confused by cops as criminals and shot or wrongly imprisoned. To be able to determine someone as mentally handicapped would be beneficial as the person may not him/herself be able to notify the officer he/she has a problem. Also, this would help hospitals treat patients they have never seen before, as it could assist them in identifying a mentally ill person that needs a specific form of medication.
But I guess you could say that the risks outweigh the benefits, and you are possibly correct.
Well, it's good to want things like this, but I don't think it will really happen. Homeless people tend to be trasients, which means they're going to be hard to track. Additionally, most don't use legal names (preferring assumed names and nicknames), and may invent social security numbers. Others will be illegal immigrants who won't appear in any other record.
Why can't we take the collective ingenuity that it would take to build a privacy invading system like this and bend it towards helping these people rather than tracking them? By helping them, there'd be fewer to track!
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Think of all the money we'll save in mental institutions letting these guys we THOUGHT were nuts back out...
"Entities that provide services would collect their names, Social Security Numbers, dates of birth, race, gender, health status (including HIV, pregnancy, and domestic violence), veteran status, and income information."
This sounds way too invasive. It concerns me because once things like this are manditory for homeless people (it sounds like this system is moving that direction), then it will slowly be introduced to the masses.
Start with the outcasts of society as to make a quiet entrance. Then work your way up.
I don't like it.
He quickly ran off... I was still in shock and not sure if I should chase him down, let alone know what to do with him once caught, but now I can track him down and do the same to his shopping cart.
Sweet revenge!
The Dept. of Housing and Urban Development is proposing a massive system of tracking for homeless people and others
They're not going to let this go away. This is just ANOTHER back-door version of TIA. We're going to see it introduced, again and again, under various disguises until they get it implemented. You can expect to see tracking systems suggested for the homeless, pedophiles, drug dealers, spouse abusers, bail-jumpers, tax evaders, etc etc and so on and so on, (each one being some particular organizations "most wanted") until it's actually implemented. And like stone soup, once it's in place, it will be "upgraded" to include everything that anybody ever wanted.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
Why not slap a yellow star on them too, for easier identification from a distance?
Excuse me, but are people completely blind to what's happening and deaf to the cries from history?
Regards,
--
*Art
There are a significant portion of the hard-core homeless that will simply stay off-grid, that's why they're homeless in the first place, they decline to participate.
Dead right. And despite the fact we call it paranoia, slashdot paranoia is absolutely nothing compared to real paranoia. I have a paranoid schizophrenic aunt, and for the implication of every program like this, there's a very real chance she'd risk starvation before going to social services agencies.
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
And how long before they start tracking everyone in this way?
What a naiive question. The reason they need to start tracking the homeless and not "the rest of us" is because they already are tracking "the rest of us." Try to buy a home or even rent an apartment without some sort of government ID. Hell, you can't even get electricity where I live without giving the electric company your social security number.
I fully support a person's right to privacy and their desire to not participate in society, however, getting government handouts and not participating in society are mutually exclusive.
Why not track their benefits? The gov't and private agencies track all of my benefits: SS benefits, income tax, disability insurance, health care status. By tracking the "benefits" the homeless recieve, the gov't will be able to provide better care and make better plans and budgets thereby saving the taxpayer money.
If they really want to live "off the grid" and not participate in society, screw 'em. They shouldn't get any gov't supplied and organized benefits from my taxes.
I've chosen to participate in society and will not support an individual who wants to live outside society, they're on their own.
As to the Secret Service getting the info at their own discretion, I'm against that.
Harry
In the past the Libertarian Party has had somethign called "operation homeless" (at least, that's what I recall) that asked homeless people the questions from the world's smallest political quiz.
They were overwhelmingly libertarian. The party marketed this by saying that the homeless know that the government is holding them back.
I believe (and I happen to be an employee of the party in some capacity, so keep that in mind) that this was the wrong conclusion. The real reason is that the homeless don't like to be entangled, don't like to make agreements, and really just want to be left alone with no responsibility, no registration, no contractural obligations.) There is so much financial help that one can get in the form of welfare, food stamps, et cetera...and they choose not to do it, sometimes it is pride, but often it's this amazing resistance to being registered (and i should also think dependent on one entity.)
Being homeless is the ultimate form of freedom (though the quality of life leave much to be desired.) I dunno if homeless in other countries are like this, but this often appears to be the case here. Nothing better than making your living "anonymously."
Where is the breech of civil liberties?
It's in the implementation details. You can't possibly track the homeless without forcing the homeless to provide information and forcing the caretakers to collect that information. That's where the breech of civil liberties comes into place.
Honestly... I don't see the harm. They already track what I do based on my social security number, why should the homeless expect more privacy then I?
Because providing information allowing yourself to be tracked should be voluntary, not mandatory.
Yes we do need to track them.
Fine, but now I want to track you.
Why? Because you fit in some economic group I don't really like. I think all of you need armbands too.
We're tired of getting all those fake, inflated numbers of how many there are. Knowing how many homeless are really out there is a vital statistic.
Here's an idea -
Go take a walk in the city tonight. It won't kill you. There are lots of homeless. All you need to know is that there are a bunch of people starving in your backyard.
If you really care about the numbers, I bet the census bureau could help you come up with something.
The bullshit about this has gone on too long. Let's have some real numbers.
Oh all right. In 2000 it was 280,527 people according to the census bureau, I'll let you search for it yourself if you don't belive me.
Year ago I was homeless for a period of time, due to the fact that I was a teenager, my parents were dead and life is harsh. I fought my way back into society against it's better wishes.
I actually managed to put my first year of college on credit. Then they figured out I was a bum without a job. Later I paid it back, got scholarships and managed to finish. It wasn't easy, but all this sob story has a point and it ain't for sympathy.
I was hanging out in a particular location on a regular basis. I'm walking along and a payphone rings. Being bored and curious, I answer it. It was a bill collector! They had tracked me down to a payphone I frequently passed. Now tell me the government needs a new system, just give the homeless a credit card good for a nice sized bad debt. The bill collectors will track them for the government, no new system needed.
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
... or forearm.
Oh wait. That's been done.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
So are you trying to create a logical fallacy here, stating that since your father-in-law is trying to scam the system, then every homeless person is trying to scam the system?
There is good and bad everywhere. Take a group of 100 people, chosen by any criteria you want, and you will find good and bad people within that 100. But that doesn't mean that all 100 are bad.
Yes, it sounds like programs offering free medical and mental health coverage would not help your FIL. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't help other homeless people.
--- Biffster.org
"Bite my shiny metal ass."