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Slashback: Bouncing, Taxing, Releasing

Tonight's Slashback brings you more on Florida's LAN-taxation proposal, the BBC's public archive (which won't be quite as big as you might have hoped), one user's plea to those who respond to viruses, and more. Read on for the details. They're taxing whatnow and hownow? Chad Eric Watt, author of the story posted yesterday on Florida's proposal to tax LANs, writes with a helpful clarification:
"The layout of our Web page doesn't do a great job of showing that the story continues on a second page. That's where I explain what is up for taxing.

Quoting the story now:

'...That brings them under the purview of the proposed rule, which includes computer networks as 'substitute communications systems' -- subject to a 9.17 percent state tax, plus local option taxes.

In Orange County, the local tax typically runs between 5.5 percent and 6.5 percent. That would bring the total tax to between 14-15 percent.

[end of first page, you hafta click to get to the rest of the story]

Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation.'"

He also provides this link to the full, uninterrupted text.

Willie Sutton has met his betters. Syphtor writes "DE Tech has responded to a reporters inquiries as to their patent claims (DE Tech refuses to say why NZ firms were targeted first) DE Tech appeared previously in the /. article, Australian Gov't Moves To Block E-commerce Patent. Latest: the patent has been just granted in Virginia 'after five years of making changes in the application.'
Legitimate protection of IP or a 'fishing expedition worthy of a Sicilian Mafia protection racket.'?"


Well, not releasing everything, No, not as such, that is, you see ... An anonymous reader writes "According to this press release from the BBC, the 'BBC creative archive' (earlier on slashdot) will not be as full as previously assumed. As the page says, 'The BBC Creative Archive would make selected BBC material universally available for private not commercial use in the UK.' (my emphasis) Looks like we won't be able to get the Hitchhiker's Guide and complete works of Monty Python after all, folks."

Who, really, is Peter Lynds, and how old is he? evil_one666 writes "You may remember that Slashdot reported a few weeks ago on ground-breaking work in the understanding of time. Well, it appears that it was all a hoax. While the Guardian is running a story that suggests several interesting conspiracy theories (although they seem to think that Peter Lynds is in fact legitimate), Museumofhoaxes.com present some convincing evidence that he is in fact a 17-year-old student at the same radio college at which he claimed to be a 27-year old-lecturer. Astute Slashdot readers rightly pointed out some big red flags, the first time the topic was aired, and Cesar Sirvent, a researcher in the field, has a list of links related to the controversy here."

Outlook Express not yet left out to rot. dr. electron writes "As stated previously on Slashdot, Outlook was to be slaughtered. Now MS says, in a article on Internet Magazine, it won't be, but developed further. They blame communication problem inside the company about the previous press release. Maybe the ongoing development of Outlook Express isn't the biggest news here, I find the reason 'communication problem' a bit odd (It's not a small decision to kill a product)."

Speaking of Outlook and anguish: caseywest, among others, has had enough blame redirected into his email box. He writes "This is my plea, my Public Service Announcement. Please, please stop bouncing email viruses! I don't run any windows computers, and /dev/null'ing viruses are trivial. I cannot, however, say that this problem is only a Windows-only menace. My email address is plastered all over the internet. As a result, I'm receiving thousands of bounced messages claiming I sent a virus. This is costly, let alone wrong! I didn't send you that virus! If you admin an email server, please answer chromatic's one question test. If you're bouncing email viruses, please reconfigure your filters to send viruses to /dev/null, and save us all money on bandwidth, hard disk space, and general anguish. Thank you."

76 of 343 comments (clear)

  1. Hows this for slashback news by segment · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's likely not going to be posted so here goes my contribution for Slashnack news...

    DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency), is now in full swing with a "Biodefense project" that seems to be a mixture of Star Trek meets Private Ryan. In an article featured at Guerrilla News, author Cheryl Seal criticizes the program which seems to have terms like 'Brain Interface Program' and 'Engineered Tissue', and there is an extensive write up on the ethics of this sort of testing on animals titled 'Roborat Ethics'. Browsing over DARPA's site I found BIODYNOTICS aka Biologically Inspired Multifunctional Dynamic Robots. According to DARPA the BIODYNOTICS Program represents a new thrust area for DSO that will comprise a multidisciplinary, multi-pronged approach with far reaching impact on robotic capabilities for national security applications. Borgs anyone?

    1. Re:Hows this for slashback news by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 2, Funny

      As long as they don't turn on Skynet, everything will be OK. :^)

  2. Governments should tax behavours they want less of by asmithmd1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How did a tax on LANs ever even get floated? That is a sure way to drive computer using businesses out of the state. This law will have a corrosive effect on tax compliance in general. Of course people will cheat on this tax; so that will open the moral door to cheating elsewhere. I predict that if this tax is passed Florida's tax revenue will decline as some businesses move to other states and the one's that stay start to cheat on their taxes that they once payed in full.

  3. substitute communication systems... by vitalitychernobyl · · Score: 5, Funny

    "That brings them under the purview of the proposed rule, which includes computer networks as 'substitute communications systems' -- subject to a 9.17 percent state tax, plus local option taxes" Does that mean my hand gesture just cost me 9.17%???

    --
    Automatics are for old men
  4. Question by ad0gg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Speaking of Outlook and anguish: caseywest.. How does sobig relate too outlook? Its doesn't use outlook, nor does it exploit it. Its trojan horse and it first spread via usenet. It has its own built in smtp server and scans your harddrive for email addresses.

    --

    Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    1. Re:Question by C_nemo · · Score: 3, Informative

      RTFP, the Outlook and virus bouncing are distinct subjects.
      To spare you the trouble of reading the article:

      1: Outlook Express will not be killed off, to the delight of many of my non/semi computer literate friends.

      2: Getting bounced virus messages from mails you never sent is crap. I got one such mail last week from a email adress which is _never_ in use (.forward file in $home). when you are bouncing/retuerning warnings on email borne viruses, someone who is not infected will wake up one day and find 100 "your message contained a virus" mail in the inbox, almost like spam, it creates alot of uneccesary traffic.

  5. Whiner by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 3, Insightful
    As a result, I'm receiving thousands of bounced messages claiming I sent a virus. This is costly, let alone wrong! I didn't send you that virus!

    My e-mail address is plastered all over the internet too, and I got 500 Spams this evening. The difference? I don't use crappy software like Outlook. I use Mozilla Messenger, and it ate those Spams and spit them out. All 500 went straight to the junk folder -- including the bounces (which, oddly enough, seem to come primarily from french-speaking countries for me).

    So stop your whining, and "invest" in some quality software. If your e-mail system can't handle cruft, you have no-one but yourself to blame.

    1. Re:Whiner by packetgeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OK, I'm stoopid and all but what part of

      don't run any windows computers, and /dev/null'ing viruses are trivial.

      led you to believe that he runs Outlook? Hell the /dev/nell comment alone was one hell of a hint that he's *probably* on a *nix box.

      --

      Please be patient, I'm a work in progress! --Alan Jackson
    2. Re:Whiner by spectecjr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      . Microsoft Outlook 2002 has an inferior interface to Mozilla Messenger.

      No, it doesn't. Also, Messenger doesn't have a calendar.

      2. Microsoft Outlook is riddled with security holes that are never patched because Microshaft would rather threaten so-called "hackers" under the DCMA.
      No, it isn't. If you believe it is, post references.
      3. Microsoft Outlook has no spam filter.
      Wrong again. It has one built in. It's called a "junkmail filter" though.
      4. Microsoft Outlook insists on using HTML and displays all images including web bugs.
      No, it doesn't. You can tell it whether to use RTF, HTML or plain text for emails.
      5. Microsoft Outlook is closed-source.
      Big whoop.
      6. Microsoft Outlook requires you to install Microsoft Exchange server, which costs $20,000 per license and is also closed-source. It also runs exclusively under Windows "Server," which is just Windows NT Workstation 2000 (or whatever it's called) with a different registry entry.
      No, it's not. And no, it doesn't. Outlook works happily with POP3 and IMAP as well as Exchange. What you get from Exchange is centralized email, centralized contacts handling, and centralized calendaring/scheduling.

      7. Microsoft Outlook costs $100 per seat. Netscape Messenger costs $0 per seat.

      Ok, you go that right. Kind of. IFF you buy it in a store, it will cost you $109/seat. If you get it elsewhere, it's cheaper. Especially in volume.

      In short, I predict that Microsoft Outlook will be dead within 3 months.

      Will you be willing to jump up and down and say "I'm an idiot" if you're wrong? Or are you going to be like every other psychic and fraud?

      Simon

      --
      Coming soon - pyrogyra
    3. Re:Whiner by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "6. Microsoft Outlook requires you to install Microsoft Exchange server, which costs $20,000 per license and is also closed-source. It also runs exclusively under Windows "Server," which is just Windows NT Workstation 2000 (or whatever it's called) with a different registry entry."

      Why do the uninformed have the loudest voice?

    4. Re:Whiner by sethgecko · · Score: 2, Informative
      . Microsoft Outlook 2002 has an inferior interface to Mozilla Messenger.

      No, it doesn't. Also, Messenger doesn't have a calendar.

      http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/

      Looks like a calendar to me.

      --
      Be ot or bot ne ot, taht is the nestquoi.
    5. Re:Whiner by arkane1234 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "3. Microsoft Outlook has no spam filter." -- Bullshit. Look up the Rules Wizard some time. It's far more robust than any other solution I've seen out there. If you really want to tinker with it, fire up VBA and write fancier rules.

      I hate to break it to you, but filtering subject/message for certain text doesn't really count as spam filter... That's just a normal filter that can be used for the task, much like a screwdriver handle can be used as a hammer in certain instances.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  6. Deprecation by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Funny

    Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation.

    Hey Florida engineers : I have a whole lot of 2BaseT networking equipment for sale, so you can get a tax break! Man, I never thought I'd be able to do something with that crap.

    Florida sure knows how to promote the concept of *old* ...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  7. Speaking of Outlook and anguish by xanderwilson · · Score: 3, Funny

    So... any creative ideas as to what can be done about this? I am now getting as many bounced emails as I am copies of the sobig virus. Used to be a 1:3 ratio.

    And it's not just bounced emails. I get personal responses. Someone actually took the time to write me: "You sent me a virus, you fag."

    I thought about making an autoresponder for virus notification bounce-headlines (I'm on a Mac--I'm pretty sure it's not me), but wouldn't sending emails back just add to the net-congestion?

    Alex.

    1. Re:Speaking of Outlook and anguish by Dieppe · · Score: 2, Funny
      wouldn't sending emails back just add to the net-congestion?

      Yesssssss... but only in the sense that peeing in a lake when it's raining adds to the water level...

      Or that it even pollutes the drinking water supply...

  8. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by silentbozo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure the airlines, hotels, and amusement parks (ie Disney/MGM, Universal, etc.), all of whom use extensive computer networks in their operations, are going to be hopping mad about getting slapped with another tax. Ultimately though, that tax WILL be passed to the end users, just as those airport, taxi, and room taxes are charged on visitors in many jurisdictions.

    And what exactly was the point of charging this tax in the first place? Is Florida a little too prosperous for their politicans? Do they feel the need to drive some of their economy to adjoining states?

  9. Email Servers with Virus scanners + my $0.02 by Cable_Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An "Amen" goes out to Caseywest...

    This little school system I work for has been beaten to death by these virus notifications lately due primarily to Sobig.F. I'm proud to be one of the people who saw this problem coming up back in June and went and disabled the automatic reply feature...even though I still get an alert myself. What annoys me even more are these virus scanners that "remove" the virus (still may have an executable attached), but go ahead and pass on the email to the "lucky" user.

    Moral of the story... The virus writers have gotten "smarter". PLEASE, disable those $#%@ notifications, for they do more harm now than good.

    Thanks.

  10. Where's the problem? by SuperBanana · · Score: 5, Funny
    The layout of our Web page doesn't do a great job of showing that the story continues on a second page

    Considering slashdot readers don't do a great job of reading the actual sites that are posted here, I don't see what the problem is.

  11. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by mattbelcher · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FLs Constitution forbids an income tax, and thus the state has to get revenue somehow. Most of it comes in the form of sales taxes, but this unfairly taxes consumers over business, so there are also a host of other business-oriented use taxes, such as fixture tax (a tax on things used to display merchandise), telephone tax, and now a LAN tax. Businesses in FL are used to this sort of thing, and still would probably prefer the no-income tax benefit of FL over relocating to a different state.

    --

    Shockwave Flash movies are the greatest thing to happen to non-sequitur humor since Japan.

  12. Wasn't the Florida Legislature's doing by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's too early for a dollar figure, but its members are not pleased to see more tax on their plates, says Simon. Should the rule go into effect, he adds, the state Legislature could step in.

    So the Florida Dept. of Revenue cooked this up, for reasons that can only make sense to career bureaucrats. The Florida Legislature will smack it down in the unlikely event that the DoR actually tries to implement it.

    What should scare people is the degree to which legislatures have deferred tax-writing power to unelected bureaucrats. They are shirking their constitutional responsibilities. It gives the state a way to raise revenue and the legislature a way to pass the buck. "Shucks, it wasn't *our* idea! Honest! We feel your pain..."

  13. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by killthiskid · · Score: 3, Funny
    Governments should tax behavours they want less of...

    Uhh... so by your logic, the gov. must want to me to stop working and earning money.

    yeah. =)

  14. /dev/null is unacceptable by sirket · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Email needs to be reliable communication medium. If a message can not be delivered, it has to be returned to the sender. It is absolutely unacceptable to simply discard a message.

    Want a better idea? Try _blocking_ the message. When I see any executable attachment in a message, my server does not accept the message. It returns a 5xx series message and tells the person to resend it without the attachment. I do the same thing for common virus Subject: lines. The message is rejected with a 5xx error and the user is told to change the subject line.

    Although I agree that bouncing a message with a virus sucks, entirely too many legitimate messages are already bounced for various reasons. If a sender can not be sure an email was received or rejected, then email will become as useless as usenet.

    One thing that should never happen is notifying the postmaster of a domain that a message contained a virus. I get this all the time. Some anti-virus gateway receives a message claiming to be from someone at a domain that I administer. Instead of just bouncing the message, their software also notifies postmaster@mydomain.com to let _ME_ know that my user has a virus.

    The only problem being that the original message was a forgery and has nothing to do with me or my domains. These people take a bad problem, (a virus) and make it worse by DOUBLING the number of messages sent. How idiotic is that? Anytime I see one of those messages, I put that persons entire domain in my blacklist and I will not remove it until I am notified that they have stopped such a stupid practice.

    -sirket

    1. Re:/dev/null is unacceptable by nightgeometry · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry, I just don't get what you are trying to say here: 1. Sending mail to dev/null is wrong, because people need to be able to use e-mail. 2. If an admin tries to be helpful (maybe misguidedly), you blacklist them, thus no more mail. This seems to be a contradiction, at least to me. Oh, and btw, usenet rocks.

      --
      The best is the enemy of the good
    2. Re:/dev/null is unacceptable by Col.+Klink+(retired) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Email needs to be reliable communication medium. If a message can not be delivered, it has to be returned to the sender.

      The thing is, the sender was forged. Since the virus scanner knows the message was a virus and correctly identifies it as such, shouldn't it know that the virus uses forged headers? And since it should know the header was forged, it should NOT return the message.

      Further, the virus scanner should not send the whole fucking virus back. That's just retarded.

      --

      -- Don't Tase me, bro!

    3. Re:/dev/null is unacceptable by kiolbasa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The distinction is sending the 5xx message at SMTP time. Accepting the mail with 250 OK and then silently dropping it can be bad if it is a false positive - the sender will never know. If you send a 5xx on a false positive, the legitimate sender will at least know there is a problem immediately.

      --

      Beer wants to be free
  15. IANAL but... by Salubri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...isn't this double taxation? Florida appears to be taxing the sale price, and if I'm reading this properly, taxing again at this same percentage whether you lease or own, based on the lease price or the value of the equipment anually? There are state and local taxes for using telephone services, but what they're proposing is taxing on the value of the equipment used. If I'm not mistaken and this isn't double taxation, this would be as ass-backwards as taxing annually on the value of the phone you're using. Two people could be using the same phone service, but one would be paying more in taxes because they got a nice 2.4GHz cordless as opposed to the other who got theirs at a dollar store. Perhaps something more like phone tax system would be better.

    --
    ----- I want my LART.
  16. Re: Well, not releasing everything by Chrimble · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, Hitchikers and Python are unlikely to be released? Series with the potential to be the biggest drain in terms of bandwidth? Surely not!

    Seriously, sarcasm aside - until bandwidth is free (or as close to free as possible) why should we expect an unexpurgated feed? Not only that, but why should US citizens (for example) expect to be able to freely download programme archives paid for by the British taxpayer at no cost to themselves?

    Whilst I hope and pray this project comes to fruition (don't vote tory!), there are a lot of questions that need to be answered before such a service might be considered practical...

    --
    Read my online journal: http://chris.carline.org
  17. UUCP! by Muggins+the+Mad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > Please, please stop bouncing email viruses!

    Hrm, could this have been one of the hidden advantages we lost when we switched from bang-path
    addressing to DNS based ?

    Under the old "route it took to get here" method,
    were addresses forgeable? Sure, you could pretend
    you were only a relay rather than the originator,
    but you'd still get the bounces.

    - MugginsM

    1. Re:UUCP! by hey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I liked the old bang paths.
      It was fun to experiment with different paths
      to find the fastest way to get mail to your pals.

  18. Read the text you're quoting by Coventry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He states:
    I don't run any windows computers, and /dev/null'ing viruses are trivial.

    And then at the end he states:
    save us all money on bandwidth, hard disk space, and general anguish.

    Your 'email system' is a CLIENT - he is talking about email servers. He never mentions using outlook, the term 'Outlook' was used to describe his opinion/request, as-in 'his outlook on the subject'.

    Even if his server is configured to stop the spam and viruses by piping them to /dev/null, his bandwidth is still being eaten up (you can't scan what you haven't yet recieved). People pay for bandwidth, especially people who have dedicated servers or colo - and just because someone else's server bounced the message to yours, doesn't mean that you don't get 'digned' at bill time for the bandwidth.

    In addition to the extra cost, and it can add up if you run a server that has many email users (all of whom may be being sent the virus, and whom may be recieving bounces from forged virus emails), not only can the virus eat up a lot of bandwidth over time, it can Slow You Down. 100k a virus email or bounce... 200 users... 1 bounce or attempted deliver to one of those users every 40 seconds or so... your pipe is full. Qmail is busy. Its an email slashdot effect. It can slow everything down.

    Now, do you still think he's whining?

    Get a brain.

    --
    man is machine
  19. Wrong by mlmurray · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Governments should tax things ONLY to raise revenue.

    Where did this idea that Governments should use taxes as tools of social engineering ever get started?

    1. Re:Wrong by eggnet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Governments should tax things ONLY to raise revenue.

      Where did this idea that Governments should use taxes as tools of social engineering ever get started?


      I hope the original poster's intent was to point out that the government should think about the ripple effects of taxes, and the resulting net gain in revenue over time. It is not true that raising taxes always increases revenue. In fact, given current taxing I dare say raising taxes will always decrease revenue in the long run as people and businesses leave or generally become less successful.

    2. Re:Wrong by cheezedawg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is not true that raising taxes always increases revenue.

      How true that is.

      For example, California recently tripled the vehicle registration fees. In our soon-to-be-former Governor's eyes, this was going to triple the revenue from vehicle registrations. In reality, that is threatening to crush new car sales (dealerships are already advertising for sales to beat the Oct 1 increase). And businesses are leaving the state rather than pay the extra money.

      Contrast that with the Reagan tax cuts. From 1980 when Reagan took office to 1989, nominal federal revenues doubled $517 billion to $1.031 trillion. The tax cuts fueled economic growth.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    3. Re:Wrong by Kris_J · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Governments should tax things in proportion to their social cost. That, if done properly, this results in social engineering is a by-product.

    4. Re:Wrong by earlytime · · Score: 2, Informative

      lies, damn lies... and republicans

      I'm not going to say you're wrong, but you have to consider the effects of:
      1. inflation
      2. a growing worldwide economy
      3. emergence/growth of industries like hi-tech
      4. deficit spending (it generates some tax revenue)
      5. shifts is gov't spending (i.e. major increases in defense).

      I'll rewrite the parent to your post:
      It is not true that anything always happens, except maybe entropy.

      --

    5. Re:Wrong by cheezedawg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      consider the effects of:
      1. inflation


      Ok. Under Reagan, inflation recovered from the Jimmy Carter mess very quickly, and remained very low for the rest of the 80's bottoming out at 1.86% in 1986, so inflation didn't play a very big roll in that (source).

      2. a growing worldwide economy

      I contend that the Reagan supply side economics helped the economy grow.

      3. emergence/growth of industries like hi-tech

      Yes- that helped a lot. See #5.

      4. deficit spending (it generates some tax revenue)

      Actually, public debt as a % of the GDP was higher under Clinton than under Reagan (source).

      5. shifts is gov't spending (i.e. major increases in defense).

      The defense spending invested heavily in technology, and that helped the hi tech industries grow.

      Also note from the Cato article I linked above, all income groups saw an increase in real income under Reagan, but minorities and the poorest quintile saw the biggest increase.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    6. Re:Wrong by earlytime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok. Under Reagan, inflation recovered from the Jimmy Carter mess very quickly, and remained very low for the rest of the 80's bottoming out at 1.86% in 1986, so inflation didn't play a very big roll in that
      based on your inflation figures:
      $1000 in 1980 becomes $1708.33 in 1989.
      primarily because of these two years
      1980 - 13.48
      1981 - 10.36

      so you can credit inflation for 70% of the revenue growth. I'm not making any comments about reagan, or his economic policy, just that the effect of tax rate changes on tax revenue growth cannot be determined by simply comparing the two numbers you presented. I'm sure if you take the revnue numbers in any 9 year period, the later year will be a higher number, regardless of which direction tax rate changes take.

      --

    7. Re:Wrong by tfoss · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Where did this idea that Governments should use taxes as tools of social engineering ever get started?


      Where did this idea that Governments should use laws as tools of social engineering ever get started?

      The gov't has always been a manner of social control (one hopes in accordance with the majority of the population). The continuum of methods ranges from laws to taxes to advisories, all of them useful for different things.

      -Ted

      --
      -=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
    8. Re:Wrong by workindev · · Score: 2, Informative

      Reagan didn't get into office until 1981, not 1980.

  20. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by demaria · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The taxes on businesses just get passed to the consumers anyways.

  21. How do you figure the tax on... by soft_guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...802.11b/g ad-hoc network? (Isn't that a LAN?) ...two old Macs connected by a localtalk cable?

    How the hell will they enforce this?

    What about home networking?

    Why not just add a tax on routers? Or better yet, maybe they could just raise their sales tax rate.

    --
    Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  22. Governments discourage what they tax by asmithmd1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They can't ONLY do one thing. When we tax something we discourage that behavour, so we ought to only tax things we want less of

    1. Re:Governments discourage what they tax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which would mean that we should tax prostitution, drugs, rape, murder, spousal abuse...

      And we shouldn't tax only things we want to see less of. Are you kidding?! You want to tax things that you can morally justify cranking the tax-rate through the roof on, but at the same time know (and desire) and increase of. If you tax things you want less of, to reduce those things, then when there are less of those things (as per your plan) there is less revenue, over time!

      This is why we tax cigerettes. Not because smoking is bad or wrong and we want less of it. But because lawmakers can somehow justify to all of us that smokers deserve to be screwed by high taxes on them and they're addicted so they won't quit. It's a long-term high revenue game. In fact, you could say that makes the governments in each state just as bad as the tabacco companies themselves. If not worse.

    2. Re:Governments discourage what they tax by Arandir · · Score: 4, Funny

      we ought to only tax things we want less of

      Then why the fsck is there an income tax? Shouldn't we be taxing poverty instead?

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    3. Re:Governments discourage what they tax by pboulang · · Score: 2, Funny

      Besides, if we didn't tax smokers, how could we afford all those great social programs? ;)

      --

      This comment is guaranteed*

      *not guaranteed

    4. Re:Governments discourage what they tax by afreniere · · Score: 2, Insightful
      > we ought to only tax things we want less of

      Then why the fsck is there an income tax? Shouldn't we be taxing poverty instead?

      Actually I think the point is we should only tax things for which there is a negative externality[?] or negative impact on society in general. We probably shouldn't tax income (except maybe a little flat tax to pay for agencies that help keep people employed) but tax stuff like gasoline (creates pollution) vehicle registration (to maintain/plow roads) houses (pay for fire, police services) and so on. I think the things taxed should be directly related to what the govt's going to do with the money. Helps everything form a better balance. Stuff that's expensive to society is expensive to the individual, etc.

      -Ansel.

      --
      G=C800:5
  23. I'm glad the BBC archive is UK only by popeydotcom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    After all it's UK citizens who pay for the BBC through our license fee. We paid for the programmes to be made initially.

    Why should we foot the (substantial) bill to serve up our programming to other countries in the world?

    If they want to see the programmes they should subscribe to BBC World or BBC Prime.

    1. Re:I'm glad the BBC archive is UK only by Pentagram · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Altruism? To increase our cultural influence? To encourage other countries to do this?

    2. Re:I'm glad the BBC archive is UK only by frovingslosh · · Score: 2, Interesting
      After all it's UK citizens who pay for the BBC through our license fee. We paid for the programmes to be made initially.

      Yea, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe we in the U.S. should set up a nice firewall to keep the damn brits out of our country's data too. Better yet, go to the EU and file a claim against the UK using the Internet, after all, WE paid to develope it.

      That's what the world needs, lots of little I want to share your IP but keep mine additudes all over the Internet. Perhaps the Brits can start a new Internet Philosphy: "Your Information wants to be free."

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    3. Re:I'm glad the BBC archive is UK only by Stone+Pony · · Score: 2, Informative
      Oh don't be such a big girl's blouse.

      Yes, we paid for it through the licence fee; but most of this programming has paid for itself through export sales several times over - or at least the programming that's likely to attract really high levels of international interest has. What's more it will quite likely continue to do so.

      Besides, the BBC's archive should be a source of national pride (well, maybe not Terry and June, but you get the idea). It's a globally-important collection which makes a powerful statement about our cultural values. I'm not blind to the commercial value of this material, but "we're smart, we're classy, we're worthy of respect" certainly seems like a more potent message to be sending than "we're so desperate for money that we've always got our hand down the back of the couch on the off-chance that we'll find 50p".

    4. Re:I'm glad the BBC archive is UK only by kevinvee · · Score: 2, Funny

      Most importantly.. to not seem french?

  24. email virus notifications: almost as bad as spam by Indy1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When sobig went off, we were getting hammered. Apparently a bunch of dumb ass spammers had harvested my slashdot spamtrap addy, and then got infected with sobig, so my spamtrap addy was getting thousands of bounces. I tried larting the various email servers (almost all of whom were in europe), but after most of them blew me off, i start agressively firewalling the offending ip ranges. I plan to leave them in the firewall for a few weeks or so until sobig is truely dead, then i'll unblock em.

    --
    Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
  25. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by eggnet · · Score: 4, Funny

    Uhh... so by your logic, the gov. must want to me to stop working and earning money.

    Uhh... so by your logic, the gov. always does what it should do?

  26. Re: Well, not releasing everything by esw · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have no problem with other countries using GPS, and that was paid for by American taxpayers.

    Is this case really any different?

  27. The spec is there... by nsayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The replacement for an exchange server is simply an IMAP server with messages that contain trivial messages that are used to contain the new spec for Contact and Calendar information as a MIME attachment.

    What's necessary is for more e-mail / calendar / address book programs to make that paradigm available so that it can become the standard for doing such things.

  28. Better than /dev/null by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I have a script (which I now just forward my virus emails to) which automatically scans the Recieved: lines and finds the last mail server that collects emails for me. Wherever that mail server got forwarded the email from is the ISP that my script bounces the email to (so they can figure out who it came from and have them de-virus their box).

    At the very worst, it will end up in the hands of an ISP that now knows that they have to deal with an open relay on their network.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  29. What's so bad about double taxation? by goombah99 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "double taxation" is sort of rush limbaugh-esque sound byte myth. in most states you pay property tax every year. when you get paid a dollar and use it to buy a soda, that dollar has had FICA deductedm then Fed tax deducted, then State tax deducted, then you paid sales tax.

    taxes are taxes. there is no such concept as "double taxation".

    the only important thing about taxation is to realize it can be also used as a policy tool. As a rule one should seek to minimize its influence on societal decisions, and secondarily to only encourage changes that are universally agreed as good ideas, and finally it should avoid singling out minority groups. For example, smoker taxes are good in the sense that they can act decrease health care costs and lower costs to hotels and others where smoke causes problems, but they are bad in the sense that it singles out a small group.

    the best policy to achieve socially neutral taxation is to spread taxes around so make a basket of consumption, luxury, production taxes, property and resource usage taxes. Also its better to have a tax system biased towards being progressive than regressive since there is a dimnishing marginal utility for money.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:What's so bad about double taxation? by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      there is no such concept as "double taxation"

      Is too. The most glaring example is with dividends: corporations pay them with aftertax income, investors pay taxes again on the dividends when they receive them. That's why dividend payouts plummeted and investors took the much riskier route of investing exclusively for share price appreciation, and we all know how that turned out. The dividend tax cut that was passed trimmed the double-tax problem but didn't eliminate it. It was enough to get Microsoft to start paying out dividends though, so now they can't torch all of their cash horde on things like the X-Box.

      the best policy to achieve socially neutral taxation is to spread taxes around...

      Which makes is VERY difficult for taxpayers to figure out just how badly we're getting screwed. It's better to have clear, easy-to-see tax bills so we can better keep tabs on Big Brother. Plus it helps keep the overhead of tax collection and compliance down. We're wasting hundreds of $billions on federal tax compliance, plus encouraging corruption by letting Congress sell tax loopholes to the clients of K Street lobbyists. Which is why Democrats like Sen. Minority Leader Tom Daschle and his corporate lobbyist wife go ballistic when someone proposes the Flat Income Tax.

  30. Ugh. Leaky bucket will discard email first. by ThePurpleBuffalo · · Score: 2, Informative
    Email is NOT a reliable form of communication. It is not now, and it will never be.

    First of all, you have the Two Armies Problem. Two armies are on opposite sides of a common enemy. If they attack that common enemy on their own, they will lose, so they must attack at the same time. How do you send messages to each other with knowledge of receipt? You can't. If I send the "Go" and you send the "OK", how do you know that I got the "OK"? I send an ACK. How do I know you got the "ACK"? You send me another ACK... and so on.

    The Second problem with EMail is that a good number of routers that use the leaky bucket protocol will see that it's only port 25, not something important like port 21, and drop the packet. Tannenbaum talks about this in his networking book.

    Beware TPB

  31. Fallible argument by Chagrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the consumer is out of state Florida never receives the tax revenue.

    --

    I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation

  32. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by MrCreosote · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you will find that governments will generally tax those things society cannot get along without - if they tax undesirable behaviours, to the extent the undesirable behaviour stops happening, then their income stream dries up. Hence they tax the things they know we will not, or cannot, give up ie fuel, alchohol, tobacco, financial transactions, income, sales transactions etc so they will have a continuing revenue source.

    --
    MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
  33. For those listening in... by ThePurpleBuffalo · · Score: 4, Informative
    Email needs to be reliable communication medium. If a message can not be delivered, it has to be returned to the sender. It is absolutely unacceptable to simply discard a message. Want a better idea? Try _blocking_ the message. When I see any executable attachment in a message, my server does not accept the message. It returns a 5xx series message and tells the person to resend it without the attachment. I do the same thing for common virus Subject: lines. The message is rejected with a 5xx error and the user is told to change the subject line.

    For the benefit of less SMTP-savy, here are a couple of things you need to keep in mind.

    Unless you want to open yourself to the rumplestiltskin attack, you must accept every message for delivery, and THEN decide on the action.

    In fact, returning a 5XX is a bounce. It's not blocking them from sending it. You have still received the data, and nothing is going to undo that.

    Beware TPB

    1. Re:For those listening in... by sirket · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In fact, returning a 5XX is a bounce. It's not blocking them from sending it. You have still received the data, and nothing is going to undo that.

      No it is not a bounce. It is a rejection of the email by my server. By returning a 5xx error, I have refused to accept responsibility for the message. If I were to actually accept the message (250) then I would be responsible for either delivering it or generating a bounce.

      When I return a 5xx error I have told the server on the other side of the connection that they either have to find another way to deliver the message or they need to generate a bounce.

      I never said that this would prevent me from receiving the data, just that I refuse to accept it. If you do not understand the difference then perhaps you should read the RFC's a little more carefully. (That is not intended as a flame, just meant to clarify a misunderstanding.)

      -sirket

    2. Re:For those listening in... by slamb · · Score: 2, Informative
      Unless you want to open yourself to the rumplestiltskin attack, you must accept every message for delivery, and THEN decide on the action.

      No, there are other ways around this attack. (He's talking about an attacker guessing the names of your users by trying a lot of combinations.) You can simply enforce a delay before sending a 5xx response, as Postfix does. This slows down the attack, as accepting and then bouncing would.

      In fact, returning a 5XX is a bounce. It's not blocking them from sending it. You have still received the data, and nothing is going to undo that.

      It is not a bounce. Sending a 5XX after the DATA command does mean you've already received the data, but that's not what defines a bounce. A bounce means your email server accepting the message and then sending a message saying it failed. Refusing delivery may cause their SMTP server to bounce it, but not necessarily. If a virus is directly connecting to your SMTP server, no bounce will be generated by a 5XX response. This is the usual case with Sobig, though sometimes it does seem to go through an intermediary. So sending a 5XX response instead of bouncing is adequate to dramatically reduce the amount of worm fallout.

      Furthermore, sending a 5XX response requires much less upstream bandwidth than accepting and then sending a bounce message (which typically includes the entire source message). For some people, this is significant, particularly for people with assymetric connections.

  34. The Peter Lynds thing seemed a little dubious by Kakurenbo+Shogun · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I must say, when I read the Peter Lynds thing when it was first posted, it seemed a little dubious.

    Much to the science world's astonishment, the work also appears to provide solutions to Zeno of Elea's famous motion paradoxes, almost 2500 years after they were originally conceived by the ancient Greek philosopher.

    Okay, I'm not up on the details of these paradoxes, but would anyone really still be stumped by them without this astonishing new theory? I wouldn't have thought so.

    Lynds says that the paradoxes arose because people assumed wrongly that objects in motion had determined positions at any instant in time, thus freezing the bodies motion static at that instant and enabling the impossible situation of the paradoxes to be derived.

    This statement sounded incorrect to me from the start. The Achilles/Tortise paradox is simple enough to resolve so I hardly think it's something that needs some amazing new theory to deal with. To be honest, I don't quite understand why it was ever such a big deal. The tortise starts out 10 meters ahead and runs 1/10 as fast as Achilles. If Achilles runs 10 meters per second, for example, he'll catch up with the tortise in 10/9 seconds. The only way you'd have difficulty calculating the exact time and place where Achilles catches up is if you can't use fractions (10/9 seconds is 1.111111...etc. seconds--impossible to express precisely with a decimal number). Basically this "paradox" just says "if Achilles runs to where the tortise was when he started running, but the tortise moves too, he won't catch up to the tortise no matter how many times they repeat that". Seems kinda obvious when you say it that way.

    He comments, "With some thought it should become clear that no matter how small the time interval, or how slowly an object moves during that interval, it is still in motion and it's position is constantly changing, so it can't have a determined relative position at any time, whether during a interval, however small, or at an instant. Indeed, if it did, it couldn't be in motion."

    This was the comment that really seemed ridiculous to me. An "instant" is not an infinitely small slice of time, it is a dimensionless position in time. Just as a point has no dimension at all (not just infinitely small dimensions), a line has no width nor height, and a plane has no height, an instant in space-time has no time in it, not infinitely little time. That there is no motion within an instant is obvious because motion is a space-time concept, and an instant only contains space, not time. And just as you can't stack a bunch of planes and make 3 dimensions, you can't stack a bunch of instants and make space time. When we speak of an instant, we throw out all aspects of reality that have to do with quantities of time, but we can still speak of the position in time where the instant is located.

    ...hopefully I wrote that in a way that made sense. In summary, the article got me thinking, but only about the reasons why it seemed unimpressive.

    --
    Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
  35. Re: Well, not releasing everything by Saeger · · Score: 2, Interesting
    there will be a direct cost - the cost of the bandwidth to serve the programming out to foreign nations

    You've heard of P2P right? And local caching? It makes absolutely no sense (except from an old authoritarian C&C viewpoint) to directly serve this content broadcast style. BitTorrent is ideal in this case, as would be FreeNet if it didn't blow chunks so hard.

    combined with the cost of potential future licensing.

    Is it standard BBC practice to repackage and resell what the public already paid for? And does allowing something to be viewed for free exclude it from ALSO being sold (*cough**linux*).

    Why should UK taxpayers pay for that?

    Share and share alike; PBS may follow across the pond. Besides, just think of it as british cultural imperialism to counter the US's. :)

    --

    --
    Power to the Peaceful
  36. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by cpeterso · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Suppose the government wants to reduce smoking, so it imposes a high tax on cigarettes. This is a small disincentive for smokers to stop smoking. However, the government has just INCREASED its own incentive to INCREASE smoking. In the government's eyes, smokers = tax revenue. If every smoker quit, then the goverment would be very sad. The government is the bigger addict (of tax revenue).

    I'm sure my example sounds silly, but these are very real consequences of the nanny state's "good intentions". If the government really doesn't want something, it should outlaw it, not tax it. Of course, I don't think personal choices like smoking are the government business.

  37. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by JimBobJoe · · Score: 2, Informative

    Businesses in FL are used to this sort of thing, and still would probably prefer the no-income tax benefit of FL over relocating to a different state.

    While I agree that businesses in Florida may be used to it, I'm not so sure about the conclusion.

    States without income tax often have to resort to "nuisance" taxes on random shiat, as noted above. There's quite a lot of red tape and bureaucracy involved, for both businesses and government, in enforcing tax compliance.

    Not saying that the income tax does not introduce red tape and bureaucracy (but, generally, state (personal) income taxes are vastly simplified in comparison to federal, and the collection of which is a very minor paperwork issue for businesses. Furthermore, it is possible to design a corporate income tax that's simple (though states like to fark that up.)

    Having said that, Florida would not make a good income tax state. A good percentage of the population lives there only a few months of the year, and another good percentage of the population is retired and therefore has no yearly income anyway.

  38. Another one-question test... by sgifford · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are you positive that your virus scanning software only blocks mail that your users don't want?

    Chromatic's suggestion works great if we assume that all virus email is from worms that forge from addresses. After that, it starts to fall apart.

    Let's say that your boss or a large consulting client gets their computer infected with an MS Word macro virus, then sends you an important new project to start working on right away as a Word document. Whoops, we discarded that message, and the sender will never know that it was discarded. More importantly, they won't know why it was discarded, and when they find out you didn't receive it will likely send the same document again.

    It also fails if you receive an important message which your virus software misidentifies as a virus. This doesn't happen often in practice, but it's a possibility that should be taken into account.

    That's why RFC 2821, which defines SMTP, requires that, after receiving the message, the MTA either deliver it or generate a bounce:

    6.1 Reliable Delivery and Replies by Email

    ...

    If there is a delivery failure after acceptance of a message, the receiver-SMTP MUST formulate and mail a notification message.

    In another thread, somebody suggested that virus scanning software have a special flag for viruses which spread by sending mail themselves using a false sender, in which case the MTA should make a special exception and discard the mail, since all other options are useless. This is a good idea.

  39. SpamAssassin rules to filter bounces by slamb · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those with this problem, there is a wiki with a set of helpful SpamAssassin rules to filter out the worst offenders. Culley Harrelson was kind enough to point me at the rules.

  40. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by pboulang · · Score: 2, Funny

    That would be a great argument if only if it were true. Unfortunately, it makes no sense. Is that a trickly up theory? If you were trying to be funny, I'm sorry, there, too.

    --

    This comment is guaranteed*

    *not guaranteed

  41. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by deepvoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That is precisely what they want. By driving away economic sources, one of the two major parties in this country, succeeds in creating a larger base of poor, unhappy, citizens who then turn around and vote for the party that "cares". An uneducated, poor, and unhappy population typically vote for those who pull the emotional levers, as opposed to actual common sense. Same thing is happenning in California. The state senate and assembly are furiously trying to get as many laws passed as possible before the governer is tossed out on his backside.

    Its the nature of prosperity and success to attract parasites which feed off the needs and compulsions of an underclass. It is the desire of those parasites to make that underclass as large as possible.

    The various governments around the coutry got fat and happy when the times were good, but like any flatworm, are now on the prowl for another meal, even if it means killing the host.

    The local government in my region made some poor investments in the teacher's 401K plan, and lost money on the downturn. Did they draw in there belts and accept the risk? No, instead they doubled my property taxes, and forced me to sell devalued stock instead. It seems I'm responsible for paying the difference whenever teachers select a bad mixture of investments, who by the way have one of the highest failure rates in the country while receiving the highest total compensation.

    Taxation is to an economy what friction is to an engine. Less is definately better. The effects of tax increases upon an economy may take several years to kick in, but when they do, they really do!

    --
    Fast machines, powerfull AI, impulsive invention,... All I lack is a good espresso machine!
  42. Um really? by hughk · · Score: 2, Informative
    I agree with you that Outlook runs ok standalone, but if you are using it within even a small organisation, then you need ES. Not just any IMAP server, but ES.

    Well, Exchange Server doesn't work too well in non-Win-NT/2K/2K3 server environments. It doesn't run under Wine. It also needs a whole boat load of other MS services to work properly. I have one Win2K server with ES under an MSDN Universal license (it come to only about $4500, but this is for development, not production). It prefers not to operate with our normal DNS but needs to use the DNS server under Microsoft. For development, operating ES doesn't cost me to much for up to a handful of users. For production that is something else, i.e., client licenses, etc. Very quickly the package gets over the $10K mark.

    --
    See my journal, I write things there
  43. Phil Karn got 600k sobig, sofar... by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I submitted this on the 23rd but the eds rejected it.

    Guy's email is in the WinXP credits because they use his GPL'd code, so you may have gotten a virus that used his address. Like the 600k he's gotten.

    Why I Hate Microsoft
    Part 1: Worms and Viruses
    Phil Karn, KA9Q

  44. Re:Governments should tax behavours they want less by Zathrus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How is it untrue?

    If I'm a business and I make something that costs me $50 in materials, and I need to make $5 in profit to stay afloat, pay wages, etc. then how much do I sell it for? $55. Now if the government comes in and says I have to pay 10% in taxes on the profit, how much do I have to charge now? $55.56. Because I still need that $5, regardless of whatever else. The only way I won't be able to raise prices is because of market competition, but if everyone is paying the tax and has similar needs then it's a wash. And the only person that pays the extra money is the buyer.

    That's the basic argument behind "companies don't pay taxes", and it's true in as far as it goes in the simple model. The real world is much more complex, and so is accounting. I think the assumption that if we removed corporate taxes that prices would magically fall is a falisy, but they would eventually edge back down toward similar profit levels as competitive pressures kicked in.

  45. Re:Cigarettes & Taxes by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In your own message, you both contradict yourself and admit ignorance.

    Did this happen? Not really. I never saw any statistics on the number on smokers, so cannot say whether the number ever dropped. However, the revenue from cigarette tax actually dropped!

    So you don't know whether it reduced smoking or not? I'll tell you then: It did.

    The drop in revenue from cigarette taxes cannot be intrepreted as a "failure" of the program- it's a mark of success. Such a drop should be the final, victorious stage of any tax that was intended as a behavioral modifier, not a revenue enhancer.

    That Cato & some Swedish politicians used revenue gain as their success criteria shows just how wrong their starting perspective was. The tax dollars you collect is not supposed to be the point!

    Often governments will subvert the intent of "sin-tax" programs to boost revenue, rather than protect the public. That puts them in the dubious position of depending on continuation and growth in bad actions for their own profit.

    in this Cato paper Patrick Fleenor takes a look at cigarette taxes in New York, which are higher than they are in many of the nearby states. He concludes that higher taxes

    A biased group like Cato does not ever "conclude" anything. They predetermined the results before doing the research- they will ALWAYS say that taxes are bad, no matter what.

    If you'd like a more scientific view of the issues, read any journal like Nicotine and Tobacco or the Journal of Public Health. You'll have to use a library's password to read the articles, but I can summarize in four words: "Cigarette taxes reduce smoking"