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Pressure-Induced Pains - Fact or Fiction?
johnstein asks: "Sure, everyone knows that person who is always blaming their aches and pains on the weather, be it Gramps and his knee, Aunt Edna with her arthritic hands, or *that* guy at work who swears his big toe begins to throbs whenever it's going to rain. Ok, maybe I am one those people too. I've had exactly TWO migraine-class headaches in the past month: the evening of August 9th and the afternoon of August 17th. Googling produced a very useful website that provides historical weather data. After a bit of searching I found this chart that clearly shows similar barometric trends for the days in question (barometric pressure near 30 inches and rising).
Is this just a coincidence? My googling suggests that while some believe the human body is highly sensitive to weather changes, others claim that the minute changes in barometric pressure would unlikely be a cause for pain in the head or joints. While stress, eating habits, and general lifestyle might be a more likely candidate, can weather claim some of the blame as well?"
Yes. Next question.
Alex.
While sliding on ice in the 3rd grade I fell on my knee. Ever since then my knee will ache during a quick drop in the barometer. This doesn't happen on monthly basis but when there is a large, quick drop, my knee lets me know.
"I would rather have your time than your money" --Henry Rollins Jan 14 2003 on the topic on internet file trading
I notice is more with sinuses and allergies, but it is also there with a wrist I crushed a few years ago. All materials respond in some way to pressure, temperature, and moisture. Why would the human body be any different, especially with a need to maintain a certain internal environment?
"All I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power." - Ashleigh Brilliant
For some number of years I thought my allergy symptoms were related to high pressure systems. After looking at pressure records, they certainly seemed correlated with my sniffling and sneezing. Some of my friends were having headaches at the same time.
However, I have an alternate explanation for my allergies -- high pressure systems affect winds and winds can bring in pollens. The high pressure systems in Northern California come from the west. As they go east, they blow pollen, pesticides, etc. from the California Central Valley to the coast (where I live). At other times we have relatively clean air (well, there's smog...). So when the dirty air comes in, I sneeze. In this theory, high pressure and my allergy symptoms are correlated but high pressure itself isn't the direct cause of those symptoms.
It's just a theory, though. I'm willing to believe that air pressure can affect your health, but I'm also willing to be convinced otherwise. At this point I don't have enough data. I'd love to hear the experiences of others.
- AmitPresumably you also had migranes around the 12th and 24th of July?
I'm no stats genius and the least publishable unit for medical journals is pretty low but before you go submitting this to JAMA:
1) n=2 is a pretty minimal data set. You'd probably want some more data points -- or at least you would if the subject weren't yourself.
2) The fact that 100% of your headaches occur with air pressure of ~30 and rising would be more remarkable if it weren't ~30 and rising every other day in that area. I'd estimate the significance of your discovery at p = 0.5.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I was reading about hygrometers the other day and noted that a couple of designs used human hair to measure humidity levels within the air - maybe more than hair can expand when the weathers moist?
:)
I have no idea what barometric pressure is but why not.
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I have a re-constructed left shoulder (high school football injury) and a bum left knee (years of abuse playing various sports). I am 28 years old. There is a 60 year old guy that works in my office, and without fail (for the last 16 months that I have worked there) we both have major or minor aches and pains on the same day. To the extent that the pain in my knee, and both of his, cause us to limp. It is often a amusing thing for the office to see the youngest and the second oldest complaining about our bad joints. We are known on these days as the "old farts" of the office. The rest of the time I am the young kid that plays his music too loud, and he is the overly energetic one. Everyone has decided it must be weather related. It is... right?
Just spray some WD-40 on your head. My uncle claims that it works wonders for his knee when it's about to rain. Then again, he probably smokes crack about the same time, so that might have something to do with it also...
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...like, implanted medical equipment.
I shattered my lower left leg. Recovery has been very, very good, but I still have a small pin/screw through the ankle. The rate of expansion/contraction of [whatever material it is, probably surgical steel] is not quite the same as that of bone, because on hot and humid days like today, that ankle hurts like a sonuvabitch.
The surgeon and all the staff told me I would probably be able to predict thunderstorms for as long as I have the pin in, but would also be going through a tad more Advil than normal. :-)
(I'm not complaining. I'm alive and can walk!)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Did you feel nauseous, become unable to think clearly, or see spots? If they were that bad, you ought to get the opinion of a doctor, cause migraines are nothing to mess around with.
If they weren't, you ought to be more careful with your adjectives. I hate it when people call every headache they get a "migraine". They're a fundamentally different kind of pain than what most people think of as "headaches".
On a (hopefully more useful) note, I get both migraine headaches and sinus-pressure headaches. The latter are much more closely related to the weather. If you have allergy or sinus problems, a decongestant tablet will probably do wonders for those headaches, if you take it before they get too bad.
-Mark
It's like taking 4 sudafed at the same time.
:(
I never had allergies until I was an adult (Oklahoma is a bad place to live if you have allergies), it took me a while to figure out what they were. The worst onset caused migraine headaches twice for me. Both times were worse than any other pain I've experienced (except that one time Keri dumped me
I found that taking contac works as well as claritin and it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Just be careful because if you take it too many days in a row it can be addictive (from what I hear).
My friend's fiancee (now 27 or so) broke his nose as a child. Ever since then he's had a slight pain in his sinus area at all times, except right before it rains the pain goes away. He's really good at telling when its going to rain and more accurate then the weather forecast news. I've affectionately dubbed him "nasal boy".
-Diganta
I had what my paernts called "growing pains." They never stopped. To this day I can generally give a report on the liklihood of weather changes in the next 24 hours. Deep aching along the shaft of the upper arm culminating in a really bad one with tingling and numbness in the hands. especially the thumbs. It is no fun at all.
The condition is heritable as well. My wife can watch the weather forecast and predict the moods of my son and myself. Several doctors have speculated on what the problem might be, but the commonest explanations don't work, no arthritis and no old injuries.
The medical consensus seems to be "probably". Like most Ask Slashdot questions that don't pertain directly to geek topics, a nice thorough answer can be found at Straight Dope.
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Well, i am a born "non-beliefer", but at some point of time i realized that whenever i head strong headaches, most of the time the next day there was a weather change.
Dont know why, but nowadays, if my head hurts, i automatically look at the weather forecast...
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Two data points is an awfully small set to be drawing conclusions from. However, it's definitely worth looking into, to see if the pattern continues.
My condolences on the fact that experimentation on this regard is going to be very unpleasant, what with the migraine-class headaches.
I was like that till my mid 20's.
I would drink almost a whole case of beer, and be fine. (almost, I weighted 130lbs).
Now I get headaches and hangovers whenever I drink too much.
Enjoy your headache free life while you can.
Migrains are a very specific type of headache. The symptoms can span from just severe headache to nausea and visuals (aura).I have never had any visuals. An onset typically comes soon after being relieved of stress, such as after handing in an essay or finishing a project with a deadline.
I am fortunate to have a mild form of migraines. I get a severe one-sided headache, and light and sounds become intolerable. I take aspirin and lie down in a dark room for a few hours.
The worst about migrains is the feeling of despair during the attack. Like a temporary depression, it feels like nothing is worthwhile and nothing good will ever happen again. The feeling is still there, even if I know it's just a side-effect of the migraine.
As mentioned in this BBC News article, the late Barry Sheene, a Former world motorcycling champion who underwent major surgery several times in his career (he had metal plates in both knees, 28 screws in his legs and a bolt in his left wrist) moved to Australia specifically because the weather there was easier on his body.
The exact quote is as follows:
Sheene moved to the warmer climes of Australia in the early 1990s to ease the pain caused by arthritis from numerous broken bones suffered in crashes.
This isn't an isolated mention either - it is very common for people who've had metal plates surgically inserted to feel discomfort in the cold.
Coming back to your case though, it is extremely common for migraine sufferers to suffer more attacks in summer than in winter. Certainly every sufferer that I know of agrees with that statement and various articles in respected medical journals (such as The Lancet) say the same thing.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Physicians who treat arthritis have told me that they certainly can't deny that the number of patients seeking help with acute pain spikes during times of bad weather. They're not sure why; one surmise is that conditions associated with impending weather changes (perhaps not the actual barometric pressure change itself) trigger increased sensitivity to the pain is already there.
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I wrecked this car and fractured my sinus and ocular, as well as my jaw. I can tell you that I usually get major headaches before it rains, snows, etc. Many times these will last for several days as the pressure slowy drops bit by bit, up to 3 days before a rain.
The body (both human and animal) is much more complex and sensitive than most people give credit for. There are reasons horses and dogs and such will go nuts before earthquakes. It's not because they are magic, but because they can sense it coming. Let's not forget, we have five senses that we know of. The pressure will be one of them (touch).
Unfortunately, over the years we have come to rely less and less on our own natural abilities to sense things. Our sense of vision isn't nearly as strong as years ago. And if it goes, get glasses. Smell? Our noses are being bombarded by smells every day, but more importantly we don't rely on it to protect us from a nearby predator. Same with our sense of hearing. We care more about music than the rustling in the bushes.
And this is all simply us adapting AWAY from being sensitive. You'll find some people are sensitive and in tune with their body. And being in tune, listening to your body and what it says, will have you feeling things others can't.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
My late Grandmother had something similar, though it was caused by a pressure buildup of fluid on the brain. Also dependent on Alzheimers etc. (Was not a good time).
However, whenever the pressure outside got higher, she got feeling worse, until a shunt was put in to let the pressure drain.
Seeing a head doctor (not a shrink : ) ) might help, I think a CAT scan may be required, I don't really know, I was busy being rather young & traumatized during the whole thing.
Incidentally, to all those who've lost a friend/family member to Alzheimers or another Protein problem... Consider joining the Fold. It's a distributed computing project. Find out more here
Fold for team #93 while you're at it, we need more folders. (And I HIGHLY reccomend the "No Nonsense Console Version" (Or even Beta version 3.25) )
I'll stop now. Thanks : )
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...why no one has brought this up yet. Anyone ever hear of the bends??
The bends is caused by the expansion of nitrogen in the joints that derives from a dissolution from the bloodstream due to a rapid pressure decrease (usually experienced by divers who are surfacing too quickly). In extreme cases, it is deadly, but it is always painful.
So obviously, a change in pressure *can* cause pain. And a rapid change in barometric pressure, while not as severe as, say, the difference between the surface and 200 meters, is still a candidate for pain, albeit a lesser pain.
Hope that helps...!
I was the same.
When I turned 21, I could drink 2 pints and barely feel any effects. I could drink 4 and still feel great the next day.
Now, about two and a half years later, it takes one bottle of beer for me to have a headache for most of the next day.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
And how many days have there been with that sort of barometric reading when you didn't have headaches?
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
A few shots of rum with coke? Obviously this won't be viable in the workplace (unless you've got a darn cool job), but I've found that this actually does quite nicely for some fo my more pounding migraines.
The reasoning behind it: migraines are sometimes caused by tension pains. A pinched nerve, muscles pushing on something they shouldn't, etc. A few shots of rum tend to relax the muscles a bit, and thus slacks off what it causing said migraine. Alternately, perhaps some form of muscle relaxing might help too?
It also helps explain why migraines are often stress related. Get stress, you tense up. Tense up, nerves get pinched etc etc, you get a migraine. Relaxing those muscles helps take away some of the symptons of what's ailing you.
Of course, there's also hitting the sore spot with a hammer. That'll get it good and painful. =)
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Well DUH, especially barometric pressure will affect your body's functioning to some degree. If you go several hundred feet underwater, or up in the great mountains, the pressure differences make your lungs go k00ky (among other things).
Perhaps a slight variation in air pressure, may cause oxygen levels in your body to jitter just a little, enough to trigger a migraine in some people.
Everything in meat-space is interrelated. Push one thing, it affects another 500 feet away, though imperceptibly. These are things we are still too stupid to notice.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Along with most people here, I've seen pretty good anecdotal evidence to believe that aches and pains can predict the weather. Ultimately, the only way you're going to find out is if you track changes in barometric pressure each day and log all aches and pains for a while.
However, while you're doing so, I'd recommend that you also log your caffeine intake. Over a decade of nearly migrane-level headaches has become just a part of my past since I discovered that caffeine withdrawl was causing my problem and simply swore off of caffeine permanently. Most people who have aches and pains before the weather have them in their joints. I've never heard of headaches as a symptom before.
Check your caffeine intake levels as an indicator.
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It's similar to "the bends" that deep divres drad, but self limiting. Normally the body tissues are at equilibrium with gases (mostly nitrogen) dissolved in them at whatever concentration the barometric pressure dictates.
When there are slow changed of pressure, you don't notice. But when the barometric pressure drops suddenly, the scar tissue can't exchange gases as quickly at the surrounding tissue and it swells up a bit because the gases try to expand, putting pressure on nearby nerves and making you hurt. A similar, but less common pain happens with a sudden rise in barometric pressure, but it's less pronounced because the scar tissue shrinks.
If you have scar tissue in a joint, it's a double-whammy: the thick synovial fluid also has to outgas, and it's not leting the scar tissue swell. That's why old sprained knees make such good storm predictors.
Whew! At least I'm not alone. I'd been getting bad headaches before it rains for the past 2 years. The pain is kinda like my head is being pressed from all sides at the same time. The serverity varies from time to time. Sometimes it's just a dull pain, other times is can be like a big wham and I have to crash out. So far, the correlation is nearly 100%. My last 2 attacks, were just few days ago, when we had 2 storms after 2 weeks of dry spell. I do suffer from sinus problems and sensorineuronal hearing loss. And, I do sneeze quite bit when the weather changes. But, my doctor claims that the latter is giving me the headaches. Though my data suggests the wet local weather is a possible cause. Take a guess: the city I live in is the lighting capital of the world :). We get more thunderstorms per sq km than any other parts of the world.
Of course, it's always possible that your headaches are causing the weather disturbances. Never underestimate your own importance in the Grand Scheme of Things (tm).
This has been happening to me for 30 years.
My neurosurgeon explained it like this: when the ambient atmospheric pressure rises, the compensatory inner cellular pressure rises to match it so that the cells keep their shape etc.
When the atmospheric pressure falls, the compensatory cellular pressure falls.
The problem is the old adjust-the-shower system problem: it takes a while for the cells to adjust. So for a time, when the pressure falls and before the cells have had time to adjust, there is swelling. This swelling happens to the cells in the nervous system.
When the nerves swell they can touch the passageways through which they go from the spine to the extremities. This is particularly true of the nerves that go from the neck through the shoulder and from the lumbar spine through the hips (the sciatic branch). This causes referred pain in the extremities. So that's why you get people with arthritis to complain.
The swelling also affects joint tissue, causing the tissues to suffer more from the abrasions of the bone spurs etc.
It's hell.
She is deathly afraid of storms and sometimes as early as two days in advance she will begin running around shaking and acting erratic.
Beware of MSG (Monosodium Glutamate). I know several people who get migraines (real migraines, not just bad headaches) triggered by MSG. Lots of information at http://www.nomsg.com/
Imitrex seems to work well, but read the label carefully. It has many bad side effects.
-- There is no truth. There is only Perception. To Percieve is to Exist.