Slashdot Mirror
Running Mac OS X Natively on Pegasos
Peter writes "The Pegasos is an interesting new platform, being one of the very few affordable non-Apple PowerPC systems. But to be a real alternative for me, I want it to run Mac OS X directly (without the need to use Mac-on-Linux or such). Have any of you Slashdot readers done this, and how much hacking did it take?" The Pegasos currently uses a G3/600, and ships with Debian Linux for PowerPC and MorphOS.
Well, technical issues aside, it's forbidden in the OS X licence agreement to run the OS on non-Apple hardware. (disclaimer: not a Mac user, can't be 100% on the wording of the licence)
;)
Whether or not it's technically possible to find a workaround to boot it without an Apple BIOS is another matter. I'm sure it will be possible though somehow
"Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
Is it possible to run this OS on Apple hardware? There seems to be no Pegasos laptops available (yet?).
Mac OS X doesn't rely on the toolbox ROM, though. What it probably _does_ rely on is a version of OpenFirmware compatible enough with the version implemented on Apple's motherboards.
- There is no "dual" 1.6GHz G5; only a single processor model exists.
- Even if you were mistaken about dual, and it's really a single 1.6GHz G5, the 1.6GHz model does not have PCI-X. Only the 1.8GHz and dual-2.0GHz models feature PCI-X.
- "Trying to install Star Control 2"? You mean, the 11 year old game? How, exactly, are you "trying to install" it? Nice one.
- The rest of your post is laughable, especially the part where you forget you said "dual 1.6GHz" and then say "this G5 dual 2GHz"
- Nice troll, anyway
Since OpenDarwin is being ported to the platform, I'd be inclined to believe that just plain Darwin (MacOS X) would NOT run on the hardware as-is and therefore you can't run MacOS X on the system.
When the OpenDarwin port is complete, you *may* be able to install MacOS X on a drive then overlay OpenDarwin on top of that and then be able to boot it onto the clone.
Remember that Macs use Open Firmware to boot, so this clone would need either Open Firmware, something compliant to the spec, or hooks to make it work (or some combination of all three).
Considering the cheapest 12" PowerBooks start at around $1200, I'd say the Apple premium isn't too bad. Granted, that's WAY more than these clones, but then you don't have to deal with the fuss of trying to shim MacOS X onto a non-native platform.
All opinions presented here aren't mine.
For those of you who don't know, the company behind Pegasos is focused on creating the ultimate "geek" machine. A number of Pegasos machines have been provided to various alternative OS developments, and it seems that the alternative OS market is a good niche that should allow this company to thrive.
from www.pegasosppc.com/operating_systems.php
"The following Operating Systems are in final stages of being ported to the Pegasos Platform and should be completed soon: AROS, Gentoo, Knoppix, NewOS, OpenBSD, QNX
The following Operating Systems are in the early stages of being ported to the Pegasos Platform: AmigaDE, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBeOS, OpenDarwin, Zynot
The following Operating Systems can be run on the Pegasos through emulation: Amiga OS 3.x, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X"
Personally speaking, as a fan of silent machines and a user of a PC that exclusively runs Linux, I am very tempted by this machine. I don't have to worry about the company going bust because by running Linux, I can easily switch hardware platforms should I need to, and I can play with Morphos and all this Mac stuff too.
...Apple's Darwin *is* open source... if you could somehow hack the Darwin kernel to recognize and boot on that hardware, then it should be able to work.
The problem is, that would probably take a serious amount of work, not to mention the possible legal snares with Apple - I don't know what the terming of the APSL is, but it may not allow such modifications. But I don't see it as being an impossible task.
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Not only does the Apple ROM need to be in place (or a substitute for it, such as MOL) OSX also needs to have drivers for the particular chipset the pegasos uses. drivers for the audio that the pegasos uses. drivers for the type of usb, ata, firewire, parallel and floppy controllers that the pegasos uses
None of which are in OSX
Like what, for instance? Open Firmware? Nope, that's (as the name would imply) open. The RAM? Nope, standard. The disks? Standard. Heck, even the processor itself isn't proprietary, as this silly "Pegasos" thing demonstrates.
A Mac's as open as any other computer. It's just that the parts are relatively rare. And also, of course, that you cannot legally run Mac OS X on anything other than Apple hardware. It's in the license agreement.
Silly rabbit.
I am not sure what the obsession with people prepared to spend an unlimited amount to avoid buying from Apple
s .html
From the UK Pegasos site [1] the bare motherboard appears to be $500 which seems somewhat high for a 600MHz G3 - adding disc/memory/peripherals + operating system this doesnt look like a very good deal given that I can by an 800MHz G4 eMac complete with OS-X for $799.
[1] http://www.pegasos-uk.com/english/products_pegaso
Sure. Piece of cake.
Where are you going to get that second processor? G5's-R-us?
Wow... let's get up to date.
Apple's New World ROM based machines which have been shipping for quite some time now (think B&W G3 and the original iMac) are closer to CHRP type systems. A basic OpenFirmware ROM is what is on the motherboard. The rest of the old "Macintosh ROM" is loaded from disk for Mac OS
For more information, see: Apple Technical Note TN1167, The Mac ROM Enters a New World.
Darwin is roughly equivalent to the Mac OS X CoreOS and one would have to write a new platform support code and relevant drivers. One could copy over the parts from a Mac OS X CD after getting Darwin to work. However, to be legal, one would have to obtain a license from Apple that is different from the license that is on the current retail product. But it's not the ROM.
I've known more than one person with a dual 400/500 G4 who's quite stunned with the performance of the iBook. Faster for many common user things. That's an 800MHz G3 compared to the Dual G4 (admittedly a lot older G4)
The G3s can still hold their own with OSX very well, as long as the surrounding architecture is up to snuff.
It's not that I don't get that the x86 is a dinosaur architecture, and there needs to be an exit strategy, but it seems to me that the days of shade-tree computer building with expensive proprietary OS's is about over. If you are looking to support Linux on PPC, then hats off to you; Linux provides a quality software analog to the best-of-breed computer componentry out there. But trying to graft OS X onto Pegasos is the exact wrong way to go; no one wins.
Apple loses money spent on unsupported hardware. Linux loses the time that would otherwise be invested making Linux run better on PPC, and the buyer loses the support, service and integration that Apple and Linuxprovide.
I guess maybe it's that some people are somehow angry with Apple for not providing the kind of craphouse of componentry that the x86 world has been for the last seven years.
And I guess when you approach a computer as a bundle of hardware components, then all it's ever going to be is a bundle of hardware that does stuff. When you look as a computer as the amalgamation of hardware, software, support and service, then you start seeing exactly what I don't get.
Apple provides the support, service and integration on Apple hardware. Linux provides support, service and integration on supported hardware. No one provides support, service or integration with OS X on Pegasos. Even those that would try could not publicly support it for fear of legal reprisal.
As more people change their idea of what a computer is--from a bunch of hardware that does stuff, to a sum total of hardware, software support, service and their integration--need for cheap off-the-wall components will die out. Microsoft is going to be at the front of this push, making systems like the X-Box for office workers everywhere.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
Disregarding the Apple ROM NewWorld or OldWorld, the support can be added to OS X for the various chipsets found on a pegasos board. There is a widely used project XPostFacto which includes specifically developed kernel modules to support OldWorld hardware will allow one to install and run OS X on an OldWorld machine. So I'm sure similar methods could be used to support the chipsets on the pegasos boards.
Moderating to further my personal world domination agenda... and to get chicks.
Hello, if you visit this site you might learn a little bit about Open Firmware... especially the Open part
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
Maybe I just don't get it but why would you want to run MacOSX on the Pegasos board? Don't get me wrong I love the idea of a PPC board and I'll be getting one as soon as I get a job. But I'll be getting it to replace the piece of crap x86 board in my Linux box.
Yes, I'll admit I'm a mac user and I love my powerbook. I personally find OSX to by the greatest OS ever, with OpenBSD and Linux taking a very close second. And for me this is where the Pegasos fits perfectly, I can now run all my system on PPC. A nice PPC OpenBSD server, serving files, web, and email to my OSX laptop and my PPC Linux desktop (until I can afford my G5).
I personally can't wait for the day when I can add "x86 free" to my "Microsoft free since 1998", tag-line. A perfect world is one where I don't have to use MS and/or x86 for anything!
If you want OSX then help Apple and buy Apple hardware. If Apple can't sell hardware then they don't write software and then we're stuck with that nasty Windows UI (and just for the flame bait I'm lumping Gnome and KDE into this, since they can't seem to come up with an original UI design) And just to piss everyone off I'll even throw Apple under the bus and point out that the "New and Improved" finder under 10.3 really looks like crap.
Not the cpu in this case. A newer iBook will certainly have a Quartz Extreme compatible gpu, while the older G4 macs may not. Quartz Extreme support makes the difference in feel between the systems - it really is a big speed boost for drawing stuff on the screen. Check the model and amount of memory in the graphics cards before you assume the performance difference is due to the cpu.
You also neglect to pay attention to other aspects of that site.
While yes, Apple's implimentation of Open Firmware is Apple's and Apple's alone, other versions of Open Firmware do exist, and following the OF spec, an OS that runs on OF runs on all flavors pretty much the same.
The Pegasos comes with it's own OF, called SmartFirmware, and it runs quite nicely.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
It is a made-up, childish word along the lines of idiot or moron.
There's a difference between "there's a list of strings in the kernel that bears a startling resemblance to the list of processors that NeXT and Apple have ever ported to" and "Apple has Mac OS X ready for that list of processors".
Let's look at the list:
The only surprise to me in that list is i860.
(Yes, I know, that posting, especially with the "Apple have OSX ready for FAR more than just the PPC boxes they're shooting with now." statement - right, Apple's got Mac OS X ready to run on shiny new Motorola 88K workstations - is so silly it was probably a troll, and I bit. Oh, well....)
The old pegasos computer isn't produced longer and probably out of stock everythere. But the pegasos2 is supposed to get released during september and will future a much better price/performance ratio since it will be sold for the same price ($499) but are very likely to have three gigabit ethernet ports, PCI-X, 1-1.4GHz G4 and so on. G4 card for the old pegasos costs $200, aswell as to replace your pegasos with a pegasos2, which is a very nice price since you can/could get the pegasos for 299, pay 200 later and then have a pegasos 2.
The file is named "molpeg.mpg", I'm guessing that implies MOL, which the poster said he didn't want.
how many people here are old amiga freaks?
:)
put your hands up
*puts hand up* and I wouldn't go back if you paid me: I've been using OS X (on some excellent Apple hardware) for two years now (which if you do the math, makes me a pretty die-hard Amigan: I suck with it until 2001! upgrading both the hard and software all that time) And while there are a couple of things about the 'mig that I do miss, on ballance OS X and Apple's hardware knock it firmly into the history books from an end user perspective.
Perhaps if the platform had survived its passage through the corporate alimentary tract of Commodore's disintegration, Escom's collapse and Gateway's asset stripping excercises as anything more than a forgotten brand name and some obsolete patents then it'd be worth considering as an option, but the sad truth is that it didn't.
What remains of the Amiga (with or without the Boing! ball, and leaving aside the interminable in-fighting) is such a fragmented collection of kludges and patches running on out-dated and/or cobbled together hardware that it's just no fun to use any more: it's great fun to play with, but I never got anything actually done on my old machine toward the end because I was forever having to tweak the system.
What I want from a system (and what it turns out I really loved about the Amiga) is a tightly integrated combination of well designed hard and software from a single vendor: there's only one company that offers that these days and it aint based in Snoqualmie.
If you can get Darwin up and running, Mac OS X will run. I've replaced the OS X kernel with a kernel compiled from the Darwin sources (on a Mac, mind you) and it all works just fine. The trick will getting all of the drivers to work properly. Objective-C, anyone?
There's no magic Mac ROMs anymore. That's been dead for so long it's ridiculous. I used to work on the OS team at Apple - I _know_.