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New Dell Clickthrough Software License
Petrol writes "I just read that Dell is installing a new mandatory click-through software license at first boot. From the article, Dude, you're getting screwed:
'Kat and I just received the Dell Inspiron 5100 notebook we ordered from Dell Canada. We quickly ran across problems.'"
Let's start a pool on how long Dell takes to respond to this. I've got fifteen minutes from post-time. Anyone else? Prize: oh, I don't know, karma or something...
Carousel is a lie!
I'm finally connected to a Customer Care representative... She insists she doesn't have copies of the agreements, and that I'm supposed to go online and look them up myself. (?!) She says to use a public computer if I have to.
I think we've reached a new low for customer support!
Any key?
The worst part is that they wanted him to press a key that doesn't even exist on his keyboard!
Dude, your website's getting screwed.
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
And shut the fuck up.
Please send me $699 for the use of my username. Thanks.
Isn't that where they are moving all the jobs?
There are such laws ...
... outside of the US.
You know, in the sane world.
it's in my head
.. shrink-wrap the laptop and stick a piece of paper on it.
"By openning this package you agree to the following license."
Before I may enter the website? Before I walk in the store?
How about before I get in the car to go to the store? Before I get internet access?
Before I leave the house in the morning? Before I get a credit card to pay for my ISP?
Before I wake up? Before the internet is invented?
Before I was born? Before the great landmass of Pangea split into the continents we know now?
Before the land that time forgot was forgotten? Before the cosmic dust coalesced into the planets of our solar system?
BEFORE THE FABRIC OF TIME, SPACE AND DIMENSION WERE TORN ASUNDER BY THE GREAT GOD ALGOROTH AND FASHIONED INTO THE UNIVERSE??
Fuck it, I'm getting an Apple.
I'd just send this off via registered mail:
....
Dear Dell,
By opening this letter, you agree to the terms of the revised license agreement herein:
You agree that any prior End User License Agreements to which I have agreed are now invalid.
Thank you,
So, did they just violate the DMCA?
-- Seq
I'd like to see them go to court over this stuff sometime. With any other type of product, you have some sort of recourse if it totally sucks, but not with software. According to the terms of the EULA, it doesn't have to actually do anything, but if it does do something, and that something is bad, then it's not their fault.
I've grown to hate dell so much in the last few years. That tech support call is vintage dell. I haven't had a good experience with dell tech support in so long, I can't even remember the last time. Their service personel are hopelessly incompentent...grrrr.
Let me just give an example:
I used to work for a company that had sold a large number of dell rack servers with PERC 3 (i think) RAID controllers. Don't know who made these controllers, but they sucked. BIG TIME. It was to the point where the systems with NO redundancy, just a simple harddrive, were far more reliable.
Every time a RAID controller died, we called dell, and every time they managed to destroy the damn RAID information! EVERY TIME! It didn't matter if they sent a tech, or tried to give us phone support, BAM! The whole thing went into the toilet and we had to try and rebuild it to the point where we could get some information off it.
I've seen a damn situation where a dell tech had to go replace a FRICKING HARD DRIVE. A HOTSWAP harddrive, in a computer that didn't HAVE a raid problem, and the bastard managed to kill the RAID! All he had to do was pull the bad drive, and slot the new one in, and the damn thing would have rebuilt ITSELF!
And on top of all of this, they are SO stingy about sending parts, or replacing faulty equipment. I am NOT going to spend a month rebuilding a whole box one part at a time. That is UNACCEPTABLE! I have to spend hours on the phone trying to work through tech support on an issue where I already know what the problem is and I just need them to send me a fricking part!
I really can't come up with a company I'd be less willing to buy a computer from. I'd buy one off a blanket from a cracked out junkie in Times Square before I'd call them again.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I returned a copy of Windows NT 4.0 based on the
warranty on the box. The entire staff at the
compusa tried to talk me out of it... it was when
I said that if the security guard took one step
closer I would kill him that they refunded my
money.
There's an easy away around the EULA. I always install my EULAed software stoned drunk. No contract is valid if you're not in your sane mind.
Another alternative is to have your 5 year old child to install the software. He can't agree to anything.
You don't actually need to agree to the EULA to run the software. But if you don't, your license automatically falls into standard copyright law which basically gives you more rights than most EULAs.
Seems there was already something in the past which grants them some rights to anything developed with one of their tools or passing through their networks, even if unintentionally.
Their legal team probably gets loaded on sodium pentathol before coming up with these things in a fit of giggling.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Pharisee: The next person who says, "Dude!" is going to be stoned!
Person A: You said, "Dude!"
Crowd: Stone him! Stone him!
Person B: He said, "Dude!" too!
Crowd: (Yells and throws stones at everyone)
Me: Smoke is billowing from my Dell computer. I need a new power supply.
Dell Support: Okay, sir. Please run the Windows diagnostics tools from the start menu.
Me: I'm running Linux.
Support: (Confused at response not listed on script) Okay, close "Linux" from the file menu and run the diagnostics.
Me: But I'm... Er... It's not a software... Oh nevermind. *click*
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Since Dell is incapable of knowing how to access their own alledged license agreements, you can just create one yourself. Of course, your agreement must state that it supersedes any Dell EULA; it will be impossible for Dell to dispute that in any case. Put in any clauses you like and send a copy to Dell (at any of their official addresses, which means it will take many days to get to the correct department to be reviewed. Oh well). Include in your license agreement the clause: "This document must be signed, notarized, and returned by [date]. Failure to respond with any dispute puts this agreement in full force." Or words to that effect. Just make sure the [date] is the same day you send it to Dell.
/. community.)
(this proposal was written extemporaneously, so any tweaks and enhancements are expected from the
I don't see what the big deal is here. They told him he could go to a friend's house and read the license, but he refused.
For those of you considering an Dell Purchase, I suggest you read it.
"By cashing this check you agree to my EULA and all its terms and conditions and you further agree to indemnify me for any legal expenses I may incur if you decide to give me legal trouble. My EULA may be found on my website at
I got to that dell screen too. I walked away from my computer, when I came back, my cat had agreed to the EULA. Dumb cat!
Dogbert: "Please read me the serial number on the inside of the case of your computer."
End User: 'But that will void my warranty.'
Dobgert: "Call me if anything changes."
maybe is time to learn to assembly on PC by ourselves.
:)
:Sorry
Is more cheap, and you get what you need.
And there is Linux
oops!.. I forgot SCO damn!
-- auch double post...
My first experience with this kind of nonsense was with a box containing the install disks (and by "disks" here, I mean 3.5" floppies, this being about 13 years ago) for Macintosh System 6.3. There, spanning the gap over the disks in their little plastic tray, was a paper sticker proclaiming that, by breaking the seal, you agreed to...something. Of course there was no room on the sticker for the actual contract you were supposedly agreeing to by the tearing of a paper, and it wasn't clear where this "agreement" referred to actually was. But, trickster that I am, I found that I could slip the disks out one by one without tearing the sticker. (Looking back on it now, I suppose I could have cut the back of the plastic tray with a box-cutter, but no matter.)
Since then, of course, this silliness has escalated to the point where the events in the article come to pass: you are required to do something which you could do entirely by accident, which is supposed to signify that you agree to something you aren't told, and in fact have no way of finding out about without doing the thing you're supposed to do. Double Catch-22 ("Catch-44"?).
So how about this: we start sending mail (real, physical mail might make more of an impression, but email could be good for a larf too) to these companies, proclaiming on the outside of the envelope (or, in the case of email, in the Subject: or some other more obscure header line) that, "by opening this mail, you agree to the enclosed agreement". Then, inside, you have whatever agreement amuses you. For example:
If anyone ever tries to call you on their EULA, simply fire back that they agreed to your UALA (User Abuser License Agreement) too, and it's equally enforceable.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Great man, now I have to leave this browser window open till I can rake up the cash.
Thats true, but hiring blind people is much more socially friendly. Plus, as an employer, there are federal and state tax benefits you could take advantage of by hiring members of a protected class.
Casca
If they want bizarre contract terms from their customers, they need to do it before the sale:
Dell: "Hi, this is Dell. Want to buy a computer?"
Customer: "Yes, sell me a computer. Preferably one that sucks. That's why I called you instead of building one I could trust."
Dell: "You called the right company and I think you will be very satisfied with your purchase. May I have your fax number, or could I give you an address where you can download some documents?"
Customer: "Yeah, uh, my fax number is 555-1212."
Dell: "Ok, I am faxing some legal documents for you to sign as part of your purchase. Once we have recieved payment and your signature to some draconian terms, we will ship your new computer immediately. Thank you for calling Dell." [Click.]
Customer: "Hooray, I'm getting a Dell. Finally, I have a legitimate excuse to complain about how much PCs suck."
Of course, that would never happen because there would be negative market consequences because nobody wants it and they would choose to buy from Dell's competitor. And that's what makes the "agreement" meaningless and unenforcable. Because it it were enforcable, it would be fraud. You disclose terms before a sale, not after a sale, silly.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
If it said "press the space bar to agree," did you ever think maybe you are agreeing to the license any time you use the space bar?
They claim it's not a sale.
I claim I'm only loaning the money I gave them, and want it back.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Ididthinkthat.InfactI'mtypingthisonmybrandnewDelll aptop-canneverbetoocareful,youknow.
I just purchased a Presario laptop at BestBuy. I wanted to have it checked for bad pixels, DOA hardware, etc., so the tech there opened the box and ran a few tests before releasing the machine to me.
So, a BestBuy representative did the initial clicking and agreeing and I have no need to ever open the enclosed shrink wrap agreements. Am I free of all of them? I think I might be!
Dear Dumberass,
No they are not legal because they try to force conditions on you after the sale has been made. The only thing EULA's are good for is toilet paper.
I work in a law firm that represents very big clients (think biggest software company, tobacco, nuclear, automotive etc..) and there interests with the government.
All of our interns and lawyers are top in their respective classes at major law schools. I often wondered where the non top people went. Now I know, they go to software companies to write EULA's. I knew there had to be more for them then the back page of the phone book offering to represent auto accident injury victims.