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Using GPS To Prevent Train Crashes In India

dave420 writes "The BBC has an article outlining plans in India to use GPS technology to alert train drivers of obstructions on the tracks, automatically stopping the train if the driver fails to take action. This sounds like a good use of cheaply-available technology to provide a safer train network."

23 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. I hate to seem callous... by l810c · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In June, 51 people died when a train crashed into boulders in an area south of the financial capital, Bombay (Mumbai).

    Do the boulders have GPS too?

    At present, drivers sit on hard wooden seats in cabins where temperatures often soar to an unbearable 56C.

    The rest rooms provided for them often have no electricity and they have no recreational facilities.

    They will also get cushioned seats in the engine room as well as a walkie-talkie to keep in touch with the station officials.

    But it seems like they could have addressed some of these issues incrementally.

  2. Cow GPS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I could see where this could come in handy! The last thing ANY Indian would want to happen is to hit a cow wandering over the train tracks.

  3. GPS by fldvm · · Score: 5, Informative

    The reason that GPS is not used in the US for trains more is because many times tracks run right next to each other and sometimes trains run on the right and other times on the left. GPS is not accurate enough to tell what track the train is on.

    1. Re:GPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, the system is different in India, we have a two track system, an up-line and a down-line, and trains never travel parallel to each other in the same direction on the same stretch of track at the same time. So GPS makes sense. What i dont understand is how the Indian railways is going to use this stuff, India is notious for the "let-it-go" attitude to serious issues, ministers and staff are callous, and Indian railway staions are a sight to behold, it's almost a mini-fair, sadhus, fakirs, beggars, thieves, cheats touts, vendors hawking everthing from desi-viagra to eucalyptus oil, ticketless travellers riding on the roof, dirt, faeces on the tracks, cows, crows, huge bandicoot rats etc,

      If you ever get caught in a train problem someplace in India, do not expect the railways to help you or give you a refund, get going from wherever you can, that ways you atleast save some time. Carry a basic first aid kit, avoid eatables offered by co-passengers (might be drugged), and drink bottled water, travel by AC if you can...

  4. Sooo.... by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What happens when the USA turns off or munges GPS information again? Is Europe still considering if they should make a secondary GPS system?

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    1. Re:Sooo.... by westyvw · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wont matter. Most professional GPS systems use a ground radio beacon. Given that you have a known point, the beacon sends out the corrected data back to you.

    2. Re:Sooo.... by absolut_kurant · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes Europe is :) The system is called Galileo and you can find more information at the link. Slashdot also had a story.

      The first satellites are supposed to be launched in 2004.

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      Yes.
  5. The day is coming... by krymsin01 · · Score: 3, Funny

    when the human is their to make sure the computer is being alert.

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    stuff
  6. the reason for most train crashes by civilengineer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    is bad tracks and bridges, rather than stationary objects on track. The only solution for that is to get rid of the British laid century old tracks and lay new ones.

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    New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
    1. Re:the reason for most train crashes by RevSmiley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The same reason the UK seems to be having many crashes and derailments. Who could have thought of such a thing.

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      As you can see I don't care about my karma.
    2. Re:the reason for most train crashes by TomV · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sadly, just rebuilding the oldest parts of the railway wouldn't help with things like the 760km Konkan Railway down the west coast from Mumbai to Mangalore. The problem with the Konkan isn't that it's old, it's very new. Rather, the key issue is corruption.

      If you don't check the contractors building the bridges, tunnels, cuttings, embankments, they WILL use 9 parts of sand to one of cement and bill as if they'd used 3:1. And they DID come up with a route running not inland as previously specified in the Indian Railways Engineering Code, but rather closer to the coast (through the swamps, the estuaries, the Western Ghats (mountains)), thus creating the need for hundreds of lucrative contracts for bridges, tunnels, cuttings and embankments, each of which yields a percentage in baksheesh, and each of which can then be built on the way-too-cheap once the full price for a proper job is in the bank.

      The Konkan Railway thus loses USD3.5M per day and couldn't afford the planned new rolling stock, instead running aging rains at an average 50km/h instead of the promised 160km/h.

      I was also surprised by the reference to "If the driver fails to do anything, then the brakes come on automatically within the next 30 seconds." as a novel contributor to safety.- I was under the impression that this device, a 'Dead Man's Handle' had been invented in the nineteenth century.

      Which is not to say that I haven't had some great rides on the Konkan and met some very lovely people on the trains, because I have...

      TomV
      By the time the line opened on new years day 1998, there were already tens of miles of subsidence needing urgent repair.

  7. better than nothing, but... by kaan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having heard countless stories from most of my Indian pals over the years, I'm really curious how much of a difference this GPS plan will make. Sure, it's might be better than the way things are right now, but it seems that the transportation problems are endemic to society and thus not fixable (or even help-able) with something like GPS devices. And this isn't limited to just trains; there are apparently bus accidents all the time, too.

    Having not been to India myself, I have to go with my second-hand knowledge and stories I hear, but it pretty much sounds like the Indian economy would never support the kinds of changes required to make mass transit actually safe. I'm interested to hear others' thoughts on this.

  8. I just LOVE this reporting: by TexVex · · Score: 5, Funny
    When there is an accident, that often translates into large numbers of casualties.
    And in other news, failure to regularly exchange carbon dioxide with oxygen frequently results in death to animals and people!
    --
    Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
  9. War Railing? by metrazol · · Score: 5, Funny

    So the trains have a GPS doohicky in 'em, alright. And ya say that there doohicky can stop the train if the driver doesn't? Okeydokey.

    And so you're sayin' I could sit next to the tracks and stop trains with the WiFi card in my Zaurus? Neat-o.

    Saves having to follow the schedule!

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    "Life's funny sometimes." "And sometimes it isn't." --Cat's Cradle
  10. Point car by steveha · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have an idea for improving train safety.

    The biggest problem for train safety is that a train is hard to stop. It has so much mass that you can't just suddenly decide to stop it. In a perfect world, you would have some warning before you needed to stop it.

    So make a much smaller vehicle that can stop quickly, and have that run out ahead of the train! Call it the "point car". Sensors on the point car would watch for an obstruction on the tracks (such as a stalled truck) and would halt the point car quickly; the train would stop more slowly, but it would have enough warning that it could stop before it reached the point car, let alone the obstruction. Also, you could mount a video camera on the front of the point car, and the engineer driving the train could watch a live video feed. A wireless radio link is probably the best way for the point car and the train to communicate.

    I'm sure the biggest problem with my idea is that it would cost too much. The point car would need fuel of some sort, and would itself be an expensive piece of equipment, and you would need one for each train. It would be cool if the point car could be driven by electric motors that somehow parasite power off the train, but I don't think any sort of power extension cord would be very practical.

    And of course, if India is only now spending the money to put cushions in for engineers to sit on, they won't be the first ones to try point cars.

    I don't know much about train crashes -- what fraction of train crashes are preventable with just GPS, and what fraction are not? If the most common problem is a train hitting another train, then GPS on both trains would help a lot. But GPS won't do much good if a truck stalls across the tracks.

    steveha

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    1. Re:Point car by technix4beos · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How about using unmanned fuel cell airplanes? It could follow the tracks, ahead of the train, reporting back what it sees, AND be able to stop in time.

      I'm positive it could be engineered to follow the tracks, hovering a few feet above the ground. When it spots something obstructing the tracks, it could report it automatically to central control, and the train, which would then have time to slow down.

      Read the previous slashdot entry:
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid =03/06/2 4/1954211&mode=nested&tid=126

      According to the links, it's capable of sustained flight for six months. Surely given that India has over 90% of it's rail lines outside, and it gets quite a lot of sun exposure, this would be a good choice of "point vehicle".

      Just a thought.

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      user@host$ diff /dev/urandom /dev/uspto
  11. some facts about indian railways by dracken · · Score: 4, Informative
    I thought I could pitch in with a few handy facts. Indian railways is one of the largest railways in the world. The Centre for Railway Information Systems has implemented the online reservation system through which half a million people book tickets everyday - the reservation system is one of the largest distributed databases in world and runs openVMS. Consider the scale of operations-

    Indian Railways has over 62,000 route kms of track.

    Indian Railways employs about 1.6 million people.

    Carries over 11 million passengers & one million tonnes of freight everyday. (about 4.83 billion passengers and 492 million tons of freight per year)

    It runs about 13,000 trains daily and has 6,984 railway stations.

    The longest journey on Indian Railways is from Jammu Tawi to Kanyakumari, a distance of about 3,751 kms covered by Himsagar Express in about 66 hours.

    1. Re:some facts about indian railways by arvindn · · Score: 4, Informative

      I thought I'd add some things:

      * Compared to the USA, in India trains are by far the most common means of transport between cities because road travel is too slow and air travel is too costly for most.
      Trains are used even within cities.
      * Trains here have a reputation for always arriving late. Most of the coaches are used long after they should be discarded, leading to increasd accident frequency.
      * Recently the Indian railways has made a lot of efforts to modernize itself, like online reservation, as the parent poster noted.

  12. Is Hi-Tech the Only Way For India to Survive? by reporter · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Last month, Slashdot initiated a discussion topic about introducing a low-bandwidth Internet connection into impoverished villages in India. Now, this month, Slashdot initiates a discussion topic about using a global positioning system (GPS) to prevent Indian trains from crashing. Things appear as though Indian society cannot function properly without high technology.

    Please read "Trains in Japan". Trains in Japan have been extremely reliable and clean since the 1950s -- almost half a century. In 1960, there was no GPS, no Internet, etc. Yet, the train system in Japan worked fine.

    What in Indian culture prevents Indian society from developing into a modern society? Why does Indian society need all this high-tech intervention in order to make it just barely livable, yet Japan has been an adequately livable society since the late 1960s?

    1. Re:Is Hi-Tech the Only Way For India to Survive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Please read "Trains in Japan". Trains in Japan have been extremely reliable and clean since the 1950s -- almost half a century. In 1960, there was no GPS, no Internet, etc. Yet, the train system in Japan worked fine.

      Japan is a smaller country.
      Japan didn't have rail put in by the British
      Japan has a much higher literacy rate
      Japan's population have one common language. India's national language is English but that was only because it was the only common one educated Indians had.
      Japan was high tech in the 1950. India simply was not.
      Japan had western help to rebuild after the war

      India was abondoned by the British some time ago, and part of Gandhi's dream was to bring literacy into India. He too felt there was no excuse for them living in 3rd world conditions. It's been a very slow going task.

  13. Train Crossings by Goldfinger7400 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Wait, so does this mean they'll actually be able to shut the gate at a train crossing when a train is actually approaching? I recall waiting close to an hour (it's worse sometimes) for the train to actually pass, due to the fact that the gates are arbitrarily scheduled, and the train drivers have no sense of time.

    Amidst the bombard of vendors during the wait, at least I know now where to obtain a false passport.

  14. Ever seen a trainwreck before? by imag0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Talking about trains always reminds me of my uncle Earl. Back in the day Earl took his test to become a train conductor since he loved trains so much.

    It got to the oral part of the test and the proctor asked Earl "You have a northbound train running at 38 MPH and a southbound train on the same track running at 42 MPH. The trains are 6 miles from each other. Who do you call first to report this to?

    Earl perked right up "I'll call my nephew imag0, of course!"

    The proctor was puzzled and asked "Why would would call your nephew?"

    "'Cause he's never seen a trainwreck before!"

  15. Re:well that is good by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Funny

    The above post raises a good point. The problem I've experiences with Indian trains is the tendency of Indians to sing, dance, flirt, and generally arrange large musical dance numbers, all carried out on the rooftops of moving trains. The stations aren't much better, teary-eyed men are constantly watching their true loves head back to the village to get an arranged marriage to some brute.

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