Slashdot Mirror
Desert Robot Race Update, With Video
An anonymous reader writes "Several teams have moved forward with their bid to run the Barstow-Vegas Desert Robot Race (For those not familiar check out http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge ). As of today 55 teams are registered, some of the most interesting are Cal Tech, AI Magic, and the Red Team out of Carnegie Mellon. Also fishing around the Red Team site, there is a pretty nifty video."
Sucks.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I am currently downloading the file (it's slowing down every second..) but would anyone be willing to provide a tracker ? I'll make a .torrent and email it/seed it !
I think that this project is cool as hell. Hopefully groups like this will help NASA pulls its head out of it's ass so that we can send more probes to other planets and be able to manouver around with out fear of losing the little buggies. With something like this, it's also a big step forward in robotics in general. Having many groups work on something like this will certainly help with the creation of other robots.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." - Voltaire
from the darpa site's Q&A : "...And they must do these things quickly- overall speed will be the deciding factor and the time limit is designed to push vehicle speeds far beyond current technologies."
this makes it seem like the focus is more on speed that on being able to navigate by oneself. if you're making a race, call it a race, dont call it a challenge, a challenge should have prizes for anyone who can do it. i find this very misleading, anyone have any thoughts on this? how about starting a petition to change the name!
consolevision roxors
One of the huge applications of autonomous vehicles is the removal of landmines. Systems that can scout out, identify, mark, and even remove mines could save the death and maiming of thousands every year.
Our poor earth is littered with millions of land mines left over from past conflicts, and from current ones too.
Don't knock technology like this. It can be used for good too. Even to clean up after the bad.
I just want you to know I've got your back 100%.
Monster Garage!
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Anybody got a mirror or a BitTorrent link for the Red Team video (http://www.redteamracing.org/include/media/movies /red_team.mpeg)?
News.com covered the Grand Challenge a while back in one of their articles. Gives a more viewer-friendly overview of what it's all about than DARPA's site.
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away
That was NOT something I needed to see.
Can someone please mod appropriatly?
plus-good, double-plus-good
People with brown skin (particularly small children) are cheaper and more efficient at the disposal of land mines (in volume, especially).
Afghans, Pakistanis, Vietnamese and perhaps now the Iraqis enjoy almost full employment as Disposable Landmine Removal Technicians.
Would you prefer they just drop a 5,000lb bomb instead? A side effect of more efficient mechanisms for killing is that there are less inadvertant civilian casualties. Just compare the fire bombings of Dresden to the wars in Kosovo and Iraq. Which method do you prefer?
i will simply program it to set off an emp.
that should spice things up
it's spelled "Caltech", not "Cal Tech".
disgusting
I would prefer it be very difficult to kill people in general. That way, we'd only do it when we really needed to.
If you look at history, anytime one side was able to kill the other without having to really risk themselves, the shitty side of history results -- genocide, oppression, etc. Just because it's your side that happens to have the better guns, tech, germs or whatever doesn't mean it's a Good Thing.
Hell, look at us: We've been way out ahead for, what, 20 years now and already we're invading other nations so our political leaders can distract the masses from economic problems or the fact that they can't stop terrorism (70% of Americans believe Iraq sponsored 9-11, and why not? They're ay-rabs, ain't they?).
Anyhow, I understand that we live in reality and that these things happen. I just don't think that most geeks would want to be a part of it if they really thought it over, which is why I said what I did.
It sucks.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I checked out Red Teams site and all I can say is "wow".
:(
That and Mopar never gave me these options when I bought my Jeep!
E.
Never rub another man's rhubarb - The Joker
Here, Courtesy of Rutgers.
does anyone else wonder if the poster has some ties to The red team, because that video had almost nothing to do with the race. It sounded more like a advertisement to get money for there project.
the challenge is high-speed automated navigation.
As a news.com story pointed out, "Calculations and decisions have to be made rapidly, however, and the room for error is huge. A vehicle moving at 45 miles per hour is covering about 60 feet per second ... If the vehicle's computer can't absorb changes in data quickly enough, it could mean a trip into a gully."
Solving a problem, and solving the same problem in an efficient and timely matter are two different things. As any student walking out of a final exam can tell you, time pressure makes everything much more interesting :)
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away
Did they mean dessert robot race? My entry will be CowboyNealBot.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
Wow, this is the second CMU site taken down in the last few days. Well, lets see if we can take down an other! Here's a mirror of the movie and some documents on my CMU account:
o rg/
http://andrew.cmu.edu/~pnelson/www.redteamracing.
"I would prefer it be very difficult to kill people in general"
Well then come up with a time machine and stop the industrial revolution from occurring. Otherwise stop fantasizing and deal with reality.
I met with some of the guys from Monster Garage about this project. They were willing to lend themselves as consultants (a few of the guys, sans Jesse James).. they were really cool & friendly guys. Even to me and my geeky friend :-)
Well said, I feel any idea that is observed or comes to mind of military brass has the automatic prefix; Hmmmm what kind of a wepon do we have here, weither it is a robot or a ham sandwich........cover you art or it will be seen.
I eat my grapes at room temperature, cuz the cold ones hurt my teeth
If you look at history, anytime one side was able to kill the other without having to really risk themselves, the shitty side of history results -- genocide, oppression, etc. Just because it's your side that happens to have the better guns, tech, germs or whatever doesn't mean it's a Good Thing.
Don't you mean anytime one side's leaders?
Or, put another way, it's easier to be yelling "Bring it on" when you're half a world away from the battlefield. One of the big changes in modern warfare is that wars aren't between neighbors much anymore. When you were invading someone right next to you, there was always the possibility that if things went sour, they'd follow your retreating forces right back to your capital.
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away
Oh yeah, you guys will love this:
the AT is going to be sporting the Linux Kernel... yes, thats right... everyone's favorite OS will be making the trip!
So I get a call from one of my client's ISPs. Some guy named Charles is really alarmed about the massive amount of traffic my sleepy little robot site is generating all of a sudden.
Woohoo, my first Slashdotting!
So naturally the ISP temporarily banished the file. Thanks to everyone who put up mirrors. The file ought to be back where it belongs on 9/10.
Unrelated to the file, these guys at CMU kick ass. Despite all the DARPA downplaying that they don't exepect anyone to even complete the race in the first year, I have tremendous confidence in the Red Team to overachieve. There's a 'success at any cost' vibe coming out of that place that has to be experienced to be believed.
Also interesting is the fact that the winner wins 1 million dollars. I wonder what sort of design budgets these teams have.
My only concern is, is this ESPN2 quality programming or merely cable access?
N
Reality is a slackware box running on a 386 tucked away in god's sock drawer.
Here is a link: http://sch5.digitalnines.com/red_team.mpeg
70% of Americans believe Iraq sponsored 9-11
Please tell me you pulled that number out of your arse. If you didn't, I think American commonsense has surrendered.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Mirror hosted by CMU's Field Robotics Center: here.
Mirror hosted by Rutgers: here
Mirror hosted by CMU Computing Services: here
Yes we know that the external Red Team website is hosted on IIS and powered by ASP. We're working on fixing these two bugs. =) Also to our defense, our internal technical web is powered by TWiki on Linux with Apache.
Regards,
Spock_NPA
That red Jeep has nothing to do with the Grand Challenge. That's Navlab 11, the Robotics Institute's latest test vehicle. the Robotics Institute, headed by Charles Thorpe, took a look at the Grand Challenge and decided to pass. He told me "If we entered, we'd have to win", and since he's mostly Government-funded, he'd need another source of funding, which he didn't have. Whittaker, who heads a related but separate operation, the Field Robotics Center, decided to do it on his own.
Whittaker issues a constant stream of trival press releases, like Team Equipped with Laptops and Office Equipment. We have considerable respect for the Robotics Institute at CMU, but this is becoming embarassing.
We take Team Caltech seriously, but not Whittaker's operation.
We will give a presentation on September 24, in EE380 at Stanford, on how we're doing it, and will show our vehicle, which isn't vaporware.
John Nagle
Team Overbot
The Red Team file should be availible using BitTorrent at http://voracity.net/download.php/344/red_team.mpeg .torrent
I just don't think that most geeks would want to be a part of it if they really thought it over, which is why I said what I did.
Well yeah, and North Korea is probably using Linux to track which 'anti-revolutionaries' and their families to kill or lock up in concentration camps.
So should we stop coding? That's the world we live in man.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
I would prefer it be very difficult to kill people in general. That way, we'd only do it when we really needed to.
Everyone prefers not to kill (except the murderous bastards). This is a straw-man position, and politically naive.
If you look at history, anytime one side was able to kill the other without having to really risk themselves, the shitty side of history results -- genocide, oppression, etc. Just because it's your side that happens to have the better guns, tech, germs or whatever doesn't mean it's a Good Thing.
No, if you look at history, shitty things happen all the time. There is evidence to the contrary: when forces are balanced, then only the tension builds, not the solution (eventually the tension breaks with very bad results: UK-DE before WWI, US-JP before WWII, UK-FR 100 years war, GR-Persia...). The only time peace occurs is when overwhelming force exists on one side (the benevolent side).
Hell, look at us: We've been way out ahead for, what, 20 years now and already we're invading other nations so our political leaders can distract the masses from economic problems or the fact that they can't stop terrorism (70% of Americans believe Iraq sponsored 9-11, and why not? They're ay-rabs, ain't they?).
How does political trolling like this get modded up to +5?
Anyhow, I understand that we live in reality and that these things happen. I just don't think that most geeks would want to be a part of it if they really thought it over, which is why I said what I did.
"Most geeks" is a spurious term. If you think they are all left-leaning pinkos, you`re wrong. If you think they`re Edvard Teller madmen, you`re wrong. Geeks are all over the spectrum. I would imagine there are some geeks who lost their brothers/fathers/sisters/mothers in 9-11, and would have no qualms in putting the hurt on some goat-farking terrorist camp via remote control.
davejenkins.com |
Wondering why the horizon was so cheesily photoshopped. Do they not want to reveal the TRUE location. (eerie Twilight Zone music plays in the background.)
We were somewhere near Barstow on the edge of the desert, when the robots began to take over... I for one welcome our new robot overlords!
The other problem I have is justfying this technology. After all, what's really the difference between terrorists flying a plane into a building and battleships firing cruise missiles on non-combat ready batallions of troops whos govenments didn't get along as the first shots of a war? Legitamately, the odds we got in Iraq should have had human rights charges brought against us. Not that it's not nice to win, but it was just all wrong.
Fear leads to Hate. Hate leads to Anger. Anger leads to Suffering. When one side has all the power of Life and Death over all the others, the potential for Suffering is Greatest! Especially when that side never has to learn the hard lessons that come with the power they have, and can be afraid all the time.
I hear you, but you know what, the U.S.A. isn't some country that decided to invade its neighbours, like Germany, Iraq or whoever, it's a superpower that is getting its ass kicked by those who want to live in the "past", and are being dragged kicking and screaming into the information age, where you can't go around hurting people without everyone knowing about it within seconds. It's a big fat period of change right now, and I'm as freaked as anyone about all the shit going down around us all. So if a souped up model F1 car can somehow cap a terrorist before liquidizing another street full of people then so be it.
Did anybody else read "Desert Robot Race" to mean that there is a community of robots living in the desert?
Communism was just a red herring.
Explain me a link between 9/11 and Iraq. Bush keeps referring to it, yet there's no link whatsoever!
It's not a straw-man position. We kill people all the time because it's easy to do. Do you think that George Bush Jr. would have invaded Iraq if there was going to be a 1:1 casualty rate, or even a 1:5 or 1:10? Of course not -- the whole point of the Iraq war was to distract the nation from the fact that we've lost more jobs than under any President since Hoover and, at the same time, make it seem like we were out getting the people responsible for bringing down the WTC, part of the Pentagon and crashing four passenger planes.
The only time peace occurs is when overwhelming force exists on one side (the benevolent side).
You're on crack. Long-term peace never occurs when one group is overwhelmingly stronger than another; you either get horrible oppression, drawn-out guerilla wars or genocides (or, sometimes, all three). History provides literally hundreds of examples of this; I don't see how you can seriously question it.
How does political trolling like this get modded up to +5?
What was the trolling you were referring to? The part about 70% of Americans beliving that Iraq was directly involved with 9-11 or the part about the Iraq war being a wag-the-dog move? Do you really think you can win that arguement in a forum where people are willing to think past flag-waving and chanting "support our troops" (it always strikes me as odd that saying we shouldn't send the troops to get shot at without good reason, or at least thinking it out carefully first, doesn't count as "support")?
"Most geeks" is a spurious term. If you think they are all left-leaning pinkos, you`re wrong. If you think they`re Edvard Teller madmen, you`re wrong. Geeks are all over the spectrum.
There are undoubtibly right-wing war mongering geeks, thus my use of the word "most". It's not hard to see that most geeks, at least those represented here on /., are considerably left of "center".
Further, I'd be willing to bet that if you could go back and poll the inventors of each advance in human history, asking if they'd have liked the fruit of their efforts to be used to inflict suffering on other people or not, you'd come up with a pretty overwhelming "no".
I would imagine there are some geeks who lost their brothers/fathers/sisters/mothers in 9-11, and would have no qualms in putting the hurt on some goat-farking terrorist camp via remote control.
I would imagine that there are some geeks who lost loved ones in 9-11 who would, similar to my original point, prefer that it was harder to kill people so that you'd only do it when you really had to.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Design a Robot that can drive alone from Barstow to Las Vegas without dying of boredom.
You've obviously never heard of cocaine.
also: die greasy nerd.
Ok, that's a lie. Everyone knows it's the Marine mine clearing technique.
-cp-
From the display board, "It shall be a goal of the Armed Forces...that by 2015, one-third of the operational ground combat vehicles of the Armed Forces are unmanned." -National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2001 (S. 2549, Sec. 217)
That is very scary to me. Who decided we want this? I do not want our military, any military sending ROBOT TANKS into battle.
If anybody can provide any history or background on where this "mission statement" is about, I'd love to know. The development of autonomous, mobile killing machines is extremely distrubing. I also wonder if some of the participants in this challenge are so focused on the million dollars that they don't quite realize what they are building.
I'm reminded of the movie Real Genius, where the huge laser they spend all semester working on turns out to be some black ops superweapon.
Just imagine what an autonomous tank with human targeting capability could do against even a lightly armed population. For example: "You have fifteen seconds to comply."
There is, somehow, a line between war and senseless slaughter. I think unmanned ground combat vehicles cross that line. They need to change the name back to Department of War if they're going to be building stuff like this.
And as cool and engaging as this challenge is, I can't support it.
Referring to parent's sig;
:
Slashed or Dotted zero ?
There's two versions.
Also, did you know you largely have Microsoft to thank for its availability ?
More information + downloads at
http://corefonts.sourceforge.net/
Meaning, of course, that you don't think those involved in the project thought it over. Somehow I doubt you are correct about that.
Although I am not involved in the competition, and I have, in fact, never done much of anything that might contribute to our wars (beyond paying taxes). However, given the opportunity to participate in something like this, I would jump at the chance. It looks like fun, it would be very interesting, and possibly eventually even of benefit to the U.S. military. While I tend to lean more to the left than the right, I also feel that it is much better to be the side with the technological advantage than the side without it. And I am not naive enough to think that if we stop developing new technologies for killing people efficiently others will follow suit. If we stop and let that technological edge evaporate, it will be our side losing hundreds or thousands of troops to the other side rather than vice versa. It is far better, in my opinion, for my side to have the big guns because I trust my side to use them more responsibly than the other side - otherwise I wouldn't be on the side I am.
[now entering rant mode]
On a related note, I am no war junky either. I detest Bush for getting us into the war in Iraq, which is turning out exactly how many of us predicted it would - a quick and relatively painless victory in the "war", followed by what appears to be just the beginning of a long and bloody "peace". I, like many others, was asking "What the hell do we plan to do once we take Iraq, surely somebody has a plan?" Well, apparently not. Though I would hate to be a Bush supporter right now, I'm not sure I would be able to handle the embarrassment of running and begging for help from the U.N. after ignoring them going into the war. Its pathetic, and embarrassing to the American people. I think congress jumped the gun a little on presidential impeachment - they were a few years premature.
[rant mode terminated]
So make tools that work best for defense instead of offense. That's actually easier in many ways because you don't have to deal with storing enough power (gasoline, electricity, whatever) for the job and you can worry about specializing to known areas rather than having to deal with a wide varity of possible areas.
:)
Perhaps make an anti-terrorism robot that patrols cities intelligently on it's own with the ability to record and detain suspicious people while calling for human assistance. Given that it's a machine it could use a lot of senses humans don't have, go places humans couldn't, and if it was damaged it'd not be such a big deal.
There are lots of potential uses to the technology. Just because some might be bad is no reason not to improve the technology. Like any tool there will be both good and bad uses. I can walk around killing people by hitting them in the head with hammers - that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have developed hammers.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
How, exactly, is this superpower getting its ass kicked? 3000 dead big deal. We've killed that many a dozen times over.
Really, what is everyone so up in arms about. Some civilians died. It's war. Just because they bombed us a couple times doesn't mean we're losing; it doesn't really mean a whole lot. What is has meant so far is that America is looking fooling trying to conquer Iraq and Afghanistan, deploying our for-real military against guys with AK47s and hand grenades and box cutters. We're completely overreacting to the threat -- a threat which on a few different occasions didn't quite ring the alarm bells loud enough.
The real battle will come when someone low on the food chain again notices some potential-terrorist behavior. Will we have learned anything from 9/11, or will we take the NASA route and fall asleep at the switch again? Sadly I fear it will be the latter.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Not another $87 billion for bombing the crap out of third world countries. Part of that vigilance is calling out leaders who lie to us (Iraqi WMD claims) and keep us in the dark (Cheney's Energy Task Force).
And I don't want to dwell on the past, but a robot tank would have done nothing to stop 9/11. A competent security screener (not the immigrants employed by the airlines making $8/hr thanks to deregulation) or a nice solid cockpit door (too heavy, too expensive to retrofit) might have made a world of difference.
haha, you're a troll
God knows what it will become 10 years later. Something tells me it will NOT be strongly secular and it will passionately hate the US who stole (let's give things their real names) shitloads of their oil.
I'm not saying Saddam didn't get what he deserved. I'm just saying that I'd prefer if this government would be direct with the people it serves. I'm pretty confident that if GWB said "we want to kick the shit out of Saddam" he'd get just as much support as he did by linking Iraq to Al Quaeda.
Too bad this is limited to United States entities only.
Guess this saves me the trouble of trying to get a robot through airport security.
Lemons!
F1rst ps0t!
Impeach Bush!
Nader 2004!
Yahoo! Maps lists the distance from Fontana, CA (the starting point) to Vegas as 224.1 miles. This "challenge" appears to be mostly off-road, so I will conservatively estimate a 10 percent premium for indirect paths, steering around obstacles, etc. This puts the course at 246.5 miles. Divided by 10 hours, and we get the average speed required to get the million dollars as 24.7 mph!
... I don't think so!
... This contest sounds like it is barely winnable by a skilled human driver!
I am not sure how many of us slashdot readers have been off-roading lately in the California desert, but that is pretty fast for sustained off-road driving. I'm going to go so far as to say it is IMPOSSIBLE given the parameters that the vehicle needs to navigate numerous obstacles, underpasses/bridges, etc.
Now, I looked at one of the teams that is fielding a Jeep of all things. Sounds great for off-road until one looks at the rules -- travel corridors will be as narrow as 10 feet (10 feet!) in some places! Go outside the bounds even an inch and the vehicle is disqualified. How wide is 10 feet, exactly? It's about the width of a standard one-car garage door. Ever tried to drive through a one-car garage door at 25 mph? Sounds easy
The real question is why did DARPA set up these rules? We're talking an average speed of 25 mph, which means for all the times the car has to go 15 mph it better make up for it at 35 mph. And, oh yeah, then there are the DARPA-imposed speed limits
Reading the DARPA site, the route will be up to 300 miles long, and has to be completed in under 10 hours - that's an average speed of 30mph, cross-country.
No wonder they don't expect any contestants to finish on the first race - I think you're going to have to have a fair amount of luck just to not break the vehicle at any point.
Nevertheless, I can't wait to see it...
And you don't see anything wrong with that sentence? You stupid, stupid cock.
If you look at history, anytime one side was able to kill the other without having to really risk themselves, the shitty side of history results -- genocide, oppression, etc. Just because it's your side that happens to have the better guns, tech, germs or whatever doesn't mean it's a Good Thing.
Well, now that's strange. How many mass graves have we dug up in Iraq? It seems that genocide and oppression is the hallmark of a dictatorship.
The point is that Iraq launched a war and lost. They surrendered and never lived up to the terms of their surrender. The fact that they were known to have used WMD's in the past and were still playing cat and mouse with the inspectors 11 years after agreeing to disarm shows that we couldn't take them at their word.
Beyond that, what do you recommend we should have done with Iraq instead?
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
I would imagine that there are some geeks who lost loved ones in 9-11 who would, similar to my original point, prefer that it was harder to kill people so that you'd only do it when you really had to.
The one thing that 9/11 taught us that there are some people who are willing to go to ANY length to kill other people. They took technically trained people (flying a commercial airliner and hitting a building with it isn't at all easy) and had them sacrifice their lives in order to kill people.
Do you really understand what that means? They want to kill other people so badly that they're willing to die in order to accomplish it.
To make matters worse, these people love to hide among civilian populations and use them as shields.
So, you want it to be more difficult to kill people? What exactly will that accomplish? (Do you wish to ban airplanes to avoid future incidents like 9/11? Any thoughts on how to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle?)
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
...or spy on them. Kinda hard to detect in my opinion. Small, lightweight, fast moving, autonomous, and able to survive heat (i.e.-sheds heat fairly effectively). I guess it would still be used for killing, only indirectly in this way. Send in the bot, it takes the tactical information and sends it to swat, norad, or the star wars space stations for "dispatch" purposes. I wouldn't be as worried of them strapping a nuke on one as I would of one crawling under my house at night, down the streets, in workplaces, etc. Vox
Yeah, and nothing good can ever come of that DARPA project that links the computers at all their research facilities with universities either. No self respecting geek would want to be part of that project either.
Oddly enough, as technology gets better at killing people, fewer people seem to die in wars. Yes, I pulled that statistic out of my ass, just like your 70%. I've never met even one of those 70%.
Please tell me you pulled that number out of your arse.
Nope, not out of their... out of thin air.
MSNBC
StarTribune
USAToday
Note that they all seem to reference the same poll by the Washington Post...
If you didn't, I think American commonsense has surrendered.
Look at the current administration, the current economic situation, the current legal atmosphere, and if you DIDN'T think American commonsense was seriously deficient, you would either be on drugs like SCO (ObReference) or you just woke from your twenty year nap...
Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
"whocares"
To be honest, I was hoping I was just being uninformed and paranoid. I guess not. Bugger.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Whenever this subject comes up I like to gently remind the readership that the desert is not a barren wasteland, but a sparse, fragile ecosystem, where a plant can take a hundred years to get established. I always get moderated as a Troll.
Well, here I go again:
that's an average speed of 30mph, cross-country
OK, so there's no chance of steering around the sensitive plant life.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Its a shame technology has to be perverted to save the lives of countless teenagers in all the armed services? Bummer that cool smart vehicles have an actual useful purpose in keeping your personal ass free and safe? You're kidding, right?
What, you'd rather they keep using 19 year olds to drive combat vehicles into firefights and minefields?
Good thinking. You must go to Columbia U, that's the kind of genius one expects from the Left.
That's why we need an amendment to the Constitution to require political leaders to lead their troops into wars they start. I think we would have a much more pacifistic government if that were the case.
I'm draft-age, and there was serious talk from some Congresspeople during these last couple wars of reinstating the draft. My stance is that I won't go to war until the President is over there with a gun in his hands fighting alongside his troops.
Then again, the thought of our current president with a gun in his hands is downright frightening, in any setting.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
North Korea???
I don't think Total Information Awareness (TIA) is a translation!!