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Judge OKs Competitive Pop-Up Ads
Mirkon writes "A while back, U-Haul filed suit against adware giant WhenU for displaying competing advertisements to users as they browsed U-Haul's site. Friday, District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee's ruling dismissed U-Haul's suit, saying '...the fact is that the computer user consented to this detour when the user downloaded WhenU's computer software from the Internet,' and 'Alas, we computer users must endure pop-up advertising along with her ugly brother, unsolicited bulk e-mail, "spam," as a burden of using the Internet.' While the ruling was issued in the context of unfair competitive marketing, it's speculated that this will have broad implications in the fight against adware - and they aren't kind to the user. WhenU chief executive Avi Naider is unfortunately quoted as saying 'This is a victory for consumer choice -- it ultimately protects consumers' right to control what they see on their computer screens.'"
Consumer choice is what we all want. But, obviously, that comes with a responsibility to make the proper choices for ourselves. Hopefully, most people on Slashdot are capable of this.
Use Mozilla? Block all unrequested Pop-Up ad's. Or maby you should pay ATTENTION to what you click. Common sense helps too. An example what not to do: (Bob see's a pop up ad offering free money) Bob: "This is awesome! This is my lucky break!!!" *click* Computer: --Crash-- Just pay attention to what you click on, be aware of different browsers that can annihalate Pop up's. And don't click links that you don't trust.
OMG OMG OMG WTF OMG WTF BBQ STFU RTFM, OMFG OMG OMG OMG ROFL LMAO OMG WTF STFU ROFLMAO
I haven't seen one pop up since I started using mozilla. That my friend is "controlling what I want to see"
'This is a victory for consumer choice -- it ultimately protects consumers' right to control what they see on their computer screens.'
Considering that many ad-ware and spy systems disguise themselves as fun download toys or much needed upgrades...
I haven't received one popup since I started using the new version of the Google Toolbar. Built in popup stopper.
Just because adware programs choose to put other ads on top doesn't stop me from putting a white image on top. Or perhaps not even loading the image in the first place.
Sure this is already possible and lots of people do it. But the legality was often in question. (You are allowed to view the contents of the site in exchange for viewing the ads) Now with this ruling it isn't anymore.
Ad blockers are proven legal in court. That is cause for celebration isn't it?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Warning, the above code is intended for educational purposes only. Do not embed it in any web page.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
Even though we all hate ad-ware and we know the average computer user is vunerable to it, the judge just can't find WhileU guilty when the user installed the program.
DO NOT WRITE IN THIS SPACE
okHow many times has Gator and their ilk created tertiary annoyance? (tertiary annoyance being a friend asking you, mr computer person, to take it off because it is blatantly annoying them)
These users never requested such software to be placed on their machines, they simply downloaded other software with which it is bundled.
This ruling was based on the idea that the user chose to have such a program on their machine. Obviously the judge was not one who has used the internet very heavily.
"this is the gloaming"
radiohead
Here's the headline: As much as WhenU's invasive popups and banner ad coverups stink, you have a right to have software do whatever you want to the websites you view. You also have the right to agree to any EULA you want. So, if you install a program that has an EULA that says it's gonna kidnap your web browser, and you say yes, you're stuck with it.
U-Haul can't go to court and say that WhenU is interfering with their website when their program pops up competitor's ads when you visit U-Haul's site. U-Haul's site isn't being hacked, it's just that the user is using a program that supplies the ads. You're free to run any ad blocking, subtracting, or adding program you want. And WhenU isn't hacking anybody's machine, their EULA says what they're gonna do so no crying foul when they actually do it.
Yep, as dump as WhenU's program is, if you click "Yes" on an EULA you're presumed to have read it and presumed to understand it and presumed to have liked it. Let the browser beware, if you welcome a adbot onto your system, nobody's gonna save you from yourself.
between the devil we know and the devil we don't.
Okay, fine, popups are legal. That particular devil we know very well, and I gots my armor of righteousness loaded up at boot. But if popups (even competitive ones) become illegal, then who knows what the poodlefuckers will come up with next.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Maybe this epidemic will help convince people to read those software licenses more carefully, but I am doubtful. Though after I explained to my mother what spyware was and she read the article the other day in the New York Times, she has told me she's going to be much more careful about what she downloads and runs, even if a friend recommends it.
Is there any centralized archive of malicious and/or spyware programs that surreptitiously modify users' computers or cause other undesired side effects and resist uninstallation? You know, something I could tell people like my mother to use to check out a piece of software to see if it's legitimate before they install it and cause a mess that somebody else has to fix? If not, there should be.
Well, this could be a turning point for either side. I see a few possibilities:
1) Nothing changes, and these pop-up ads become more intrusive and more bold
2) These ruling collides with the NY Times suit against Gator, and this gets kicked up a few notches in the legal system
3) Legislators change the law, by just the right amount. They essentially stay out of it, but require explicit, unambiguous disclosure before engaging in these type of shenanigans
4) Legislators decide to over-legislate, and provide an implicit endorsement of Palladium or some Ashcroftian scheme under the guise of protecting people. And the nanny state advocates (on the left & right) will be happy.
Let's hope it ends in either option 2 or option 3.
This is a good thing; I disagree with the negative tone.
The judges reasoning is sound. If it were otherwise: Do you think it would be illegal for a future web browser to not display what it detects to be advertisements? Mozilla pop-up blocking might be deemed illegal as well, if the judge reasoned otherwise.
Not all of us have to...
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
I don't know if this software is commonly bundled with other software so that a common user isn't aware they are installing it. Regardless, this has nothing to do with a supposed intended purpose. Just as p2p shouldn't be made illegal for a side effect. Since when did price comparison become illegal?
ZEN is a prime number in base-36
"While at first blush this detour in the user's Web search seems like a siphon-off of a business opportunity, the fact is that the computer user consented to this detour when the user downloaded WhenU's computer software from the Internet," Lee said.
That sounds like a good ruling to me.
Since it certainly means that the user can consent to software which blocks ads on certain web sites without the web site owners being able to claim the user's are "stealing"
How can you make a choice when they hide what you are getting? Look at Real Media if you do not understand. Do you want your "MP3 player" sending info to some website about what you listen to, but not telling you unless you look for it under preferances-->tools-->settings-->hidden-->secret-- >we'reassholes-->nochanges-->readonly?
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Oh, they're not new. We've had moron overlords for centuries.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
It should read:
"Alas, we totally clueless idiot computer users must endure pop-up advertising along with her ugly brother, unsolicited bulk e-mail, 'spam,' as a burden of using the Internet"
Everybody else can use Thunderbird et. al. and use a spam filter. Maybe that's not a bad thing as it might finally turn some of the unwashed masses off the internet.
I asked for a refund - and got my monkey back.
The ruling is not about popups.
The ruling is about software the user installed on his or her computer that creates popups.
I have to agree with the judge on this one, if a user installs something on thier own machine that interferes with a websites marketing, the owner of that website has no right to disable or to dictate how that software works.
If the user did not know what the software did, then the user should not have installed it.
And the user should be using Mozilla (or a derivative) anyway, with popups disabled.
Read, L
Lots of people seem to think that regulation is the solution to overly long and/or complex EULAs. I disagree - I say let the market decide.
If an EULA is just too complex, what a user should do is reject it and take their business elsewhere. The company presenting the EULA will have to fix it, or die in the marketplace.
The only problem at the moment is people blindly clicking 'Yes' because they don't think it matters - perhaps once enough people are burnt this will change.
(For the record: I happen to believe that EULAs on products you've already paid for (ie you only see them once you break the shrinkwrap and run the installer) should not be binding, but for a different reason - you've already bought the product and the conditions of sale can't change after the sale is completed.)
District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee's ruling dismissed U-Haul's suit, saying '...the fact is that the computer user consented to this detour when the user downloaded WhenU's computer software from the Internet,'
They should consider themselves lucky. It's not every day that Bruce Lee dismisses something without some serious ass kicking...
As soon as the adware marketing plan is fully legitimized, then there will be tons of things that include adware. All computers will come equipped from the manufacturer with adware installed.
imagine the day when ISPs begin maximizing their profits by piping ad information into your machine. I doubt that the judge (who I suspect will be justly compensated for his ruling) has a clue about what he is unleashing.
Speaking of adware, I installed mouse a month ago. The friggin mouse program had an adware component. It won't be just free ware and trojans. Adware and spyware will be in everything. There will be no consumer choice.
Remember to wipe when-u...
...but this is a good thing. The overall thrust of the ruling is that you can install software that does things large companies don't like - specifically, that interfere with their marketing alerts you to competitors offers, and otherwise helps you (at least in theory). This is good - if you doubt it, imagine the reverse. What if U-Haul had WON, and now there was a precedent saying that U-Haul got to micromanage my desktop and browsing experience at that level?
The specific details of the ruling benefits some nasty adware, sure - but the problems with the adware aren't that it pops up ads - there's nothing wrong, per se, with software that does that - IF YOU WANT TO INSTALL THAT SOFTWARE. (Sorry for shouting.) What's wrong is the deceptive tricks used to get the adware installed, and that is NOT at all related to the decision. I dislike WhenU, and have no beef with U-Haul, but this was still the right decision.
I'll say it again - a judge just ruled that you have the rights of control over your browsing experience that you'd expect. This is good. Step two, of course, is getting some rulings mandating disclosure and truth-in-advertising for the adware providers, but that is, and should be, a seperate issue.
Different types of pop-ups handling methods deserve special distinction and treatment by the law. I find judges that want to make blanket statements to the effect of "the user/WhenU/Gator can do whatever he wants to his computer" ignorant.
Just my 4 cents (mostly due to inflation)
Then don't install adware.
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
The average person simply doesn't understand the implications of installing browser plug-ins. Most users are using Internet Explorer, and the default settings of Internet Explorer allow the individual to be prompted for plugins that have security certificates. These security certificates are in and of themselves a ruse, since "trusted" source only means the spyware company bought a certificate from someone like Verisign. The average user, however, sees all this and says "hey, why not, must be ok, right?"
The real solution here is to develop good habits in users, including the use of alternative non-M$ browsers/OS, changing default browser settings to enable the installation of possibly only the most common plug-ins like Flash/Shockwave, automatic set up of Javascript-disabling and ad-disabling CSS, pop-up and cookie control apps and settings, firewall apps, hosts files, and of course the regular use of programs such as Spybot and Ad-Aware. The amount of spyware/malware that I find on computers is phenomenal, and when I consult for individuals or families they are always astounded at the amount of this crap on their computer. Particularly when I explain to them what's going on, they invariably get quite angry at the peddlers of this junk. They always say "well nobody told us about this." I lament that I am the first.
Maybe it's time for the geek community to develop some altruistic marketing schemes and start educating the public at large about what's out there. Until M$ fixes a horribly broken set of Internet access apps, someone has to fill that void. Any takers?
I dont really understand this ruling since the judge is basically saying that anyone can overwrite another's ad's. Now what about television.. networks pay millions for ad's just like they do in the internet so what's different.. is it now okay for directtv to overwrite ad's on CNN to advertis Foxnews?
The cable company here does it, and so does direct tv, if you watch discoverey or other cable network youll notice that local ads takes place, where as on direct tv they display either national or direct tv ads.
I belive there are rules about directv showing out of market ads which prevents them from ofering LA broadcasts to the chicago or ny area.
Its a shame because i would actually convert from cable to direct tv if i could just buy all the local channels (including out of market locals.
Try using Firebird. I haven't seen a bulk ad or pup-up since I switched form mozilla. Even mozilla stopped almost every popup. It will run where you uncompress it, so you don't need privileges to install it. Download a plugin (aka extensions) called AdBlock. Go into the normal options and turn off unrequested popups. Also set the options so that only images from the originating server are downloaded. With AdBlock, you can block images by name server (ex. ads.x10.com). There is a comprehensive list that you can output in many block formats here).
He is obviously not in a position to make either of those illegal, but it would have been preferable if he had dismissed the case altogether. I am not a lawyer, but the judge is, and if he had any talent, I'm sure he could have found a pretext for booting both parties up the bum.
You are an idiot. It is true. Look at Real Player. By the time you figure out what data they collect and send, it is too late to do anything. And they purposfully give you a two pages with unchecked boxes about collecting data, but if you go three pages down you see boxes checked about them monitoring you and collecting data. Tell me they did not do that on purpose. You are an asshole for modding it down. I do not care. Plus, PC's are supposed to be about ease of use. What is easy about searching for a control panel on some software which was burried so you can disable data collection.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Basically, this case decided that *U-Haul* couldn't complain against WhenU's system on the grounds they chose to argue. This is a good thing; if a system *like* WhenU's existed that *didn't* suck - say, a Mozilla sidebar that would automatically Pricewatch search for you; heck, "What's Related..." is even closer - we wouldn't want the 'big bad company' controlling our viewing. If you can't run WhenU, then should you be able to run a word processor, when you could be using it to complain about a product? Do we have to prove 'substantial non-infringing use' for *every* software on our machines before we can visit corporate sites?
But on the same token, yes, WhenU sucks. So file a separate lawsuit, targeting the deceptive *installation* practices, not the content. And if you lose that one, petition for laws against deceptive installations, not laws protecting corporate interests.
Why's this so hard?
http://www.proxomitron.info/ - The Proxomitron (popup, banner, webbug, everything bad on the net killer)
http://security.kolla.de/ - Spybot Search & Destroy (spyware/keylogger/trojan killer)
http://www.free-av.com/ - AntiVir (virus scanner)
http://www.zonelabs.com/ - ZoneAlarm (firewall)
http://methlabs.org/methlabs.htm - PeerGuardian (anti-RIAA blocklist)
Start with those, clear your own systems and then most importantly, EDUCATE others to use them and understand why they need them.
Quizo69
Visceral Psyche Films
The google toolbar has been updated and has a really nice pop-up blocker feature. You should give it a try.
Do you like the fact thar your grocery store sells your purchasing habits to other parties if you sign onto their "membership" to get the "member discounts"?
Of course you don't.
Do you likely like it less than paying more for groceries?
Absolutely.
When you get down to it, two things are true:
1) Creating stuff costs money.
2) Many customers would prefer to pay for stuff through inconvenience or transfer of information instead of payment of money.
This is reality. If you don't like it, pay more for products that don't do what you don't like.
paintball
Why is this a good thing? Well, think of the alternative. People dictating how a web page must be rendered? Where would style sheets be in this world? Would there have to be a federally dictated "standard rendering" to say how HTML should be displayed so that users don't bastardize it to their own ends by replacing or removing ads?
And, if the answer is no, then how do you propose wording a law that would prevent overwriting ads on a web page while not requiring such a standard?
And what of lynx, hmmm? It completely doesn't show the content in the standard format. Ban it? Only have the law apply to graphical browsers? See what I'm getting at? It's a pain in the ass.
Far better to have the freedom and let it be. If you don't want the adware, don't click the "I Agree" button. No one is forcing these people to install adware, for heaven's sake. What ever happened to personal responsibility?
Stop the legal insanity!
I found myself with WhenU software installed on my computer. (Just for the record, I am reasonably techno-literate, and did not click on the "Yes!" button myself. I blame my family, but that's another story altogether.)
Now, the constant ads were only mildly irritating. But I thought, "Hey! I can always use Add/Remove Programs to get rid of this." So I removed WhenU, and my machine was happy.
Until, that is, I rebooted. And it was back, with its stupid pop-ups.
Now I got really annoyed, and downloaded AdAware. It found WhenU, and removed it. Phew.
Until, again, I rebooted. Damned thing was back again.
(Finally AdAware Pro got rid of it, but that is frankly ridiculous.)
Now, I don't know about EULAs. But when a software package REINSTALLS itself without asking you, when you have specifically tried to uninstall it, now that is unethical.
If there is anyway Slashdotters can suggest that would help me inflict much pain on WhenU executives, that would be greatly appreciated...
--- My dad's political betting
You can stop most pop-up adverts and you can stop most spam. Instead of making draconian laws that involve banning software - the very same type of laws we try to stop when its the DMCA. We can use technology to stop these annoying things. Any sort of html based pop-up can easily be stopped in the browser or via a proxy, if its something you downloaded then dont download it! Most adware programs have been cracked - eg. Kazaa lite to stop adverts so you can use the cracks and show the marketing people just how much you hate intrusive adverts. Dont let the government fill the internet with stupid legislation thats un enforceable and usually punishes people who have legitimate uses against it.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
It's a good thing this decision didn't go the other way, or popup blockers like Mozilla or Google Toolbar could be ruled illegal.
Just think about it. With this ruling on our side, we will NEVER have to worry about some company suing because Mozilla, or BFilter, or Privoxy or whatever has blocked their ads. This is a precedent that blocking an ad with another ad is okay.
The end user can AGREE that they want software installed that covers an ad with a different ad.
In my case, the ad-substitution I want is as follows. I want all ads replaced by an ad for my popup blocker. The popup blocker's advertisement just happens to be very light in color, very dull, rather than splashy glossy bright glowing twitching animated seizure inducing ads that were obscured.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.