Microsoft-Antitrust.gov Opens for Public

prostoalex writes "The Attorney General of the State of California has opened up a Web site, dedicated to Microsoft antitrust violations. In 2002 Microsoft received 2 court judgements, one from California and 7 other states, another one from New York and nine other states. If you believe the company has violated the conditions stipulated in either of the statements, visit Microsoft-Antitrust.gov Web site. Notice that the site collects only the complaints related to two final judgements mentioned above."

Comments

Clever plot

[Boing]

With what the /. effect is going to do to this site, I wouldn't be surprised if this link was posted by a Microsoft representative.

Re:Clever plot

[grub]

Holy moly.. and I thought I needed more tinfoil on my hat.. ;)

Oh the irony.

[BWJones]

Well, looking at the site.....it appears it's running on.....wait for it......Windows 2000! Yeaaaaay. Oh, wait......

Seriously though, what does that say about your position when you are adopting and running the product of which you are complaining about? Although, I suppose that might only back up their case.

Re:Oh the irony.

[gowen]

They're not complaining about the product. They're complaining about the company's leverage of their desktop OS near-monopoly to eliminate competition in other markets (web servers *NOT* among them).

Fortunately, the CA attorney general understands the case better than the average "MS is bad" slash-drone.

Re:Oh the irony.

[qoncept]

First, they aren't complaining about anything. The site is there to provide us with a medium to do so.

Second, the point isn't to go complain about Microsoft's products. It's to complain about Microsoft's business products.

Re:Oh the irony.

[slimak]

its probably less ironic than it first seems since the people who are responsible for the lawsuit and the people who wrote the article and the people who maintain the server are most likely not the same.

Consider how many negative Microsoft comments are made here on /. from Windows machines...thats what I consider ironic (but thats just me).

Re:Oh the irony.

[gowen]

First, they aren't complaining about anything.

Well, they did. Thats how they got the settlement in the first place. The judgement is linked to from the website -- which is up so users can complaing about non-compliance with the judgement from the original complaint.

Sheesh.

(RIP Johnny Cash)

Re:Oh the irony.

[qoncept]

So you're saying they chose which product to use based on the product rather than the morals of the company behind it? So that's why slashdotters make so many bad decisions..

Re:Oh the irony.

[jone1941]

Not only that, but when submitting a complaint they suggest that:

If you are able to provide documentation to support your complaint, please attach the file in either Word (.doc) or WordPerfect (.wpd) format below.

That just seems sad.

Re:Oh the irony.

[richie2000]

by purchasing Win2K + IIS

Maybe they just installed a copy they got on a CD-R from a friend?

Re:Oh the irony.

[NightSpots]

What's funny is this line:

Fortunately, the CA attorney general understands the case better than the average "MS is bad" slash-drone.

As a California resident, I can assure you that the California attorney general is interested in nothing more than pandering to special interests.

Someone with enough money stepped forward to make this happen. I assume it was someone from either Sun or Oracle.

Issues like the recent 'drivers license for anyone who has a piece of paper with a number on it'* bill show how little the powers-that-be in the state care about the wellbeing of the people.

*: The bill was vetoed twice by the 'governor' because "it lacked safety measures". The bill that was eventually signed, in the last week that the governor facing recall was able to sign bills, had even fewer 'safety measures' than the previous, but was rushed through to pander to minority action groups.

redundant??!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Attorney General of the State of California has opened up a Web site, dedicated to Microsoft antitrust violations.

Isn't slashdot already the place for Microsoft hating and bashing?

This site is redundant.

Re:redundant??!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't indulge in Microsoft hating and bashing. I suspect I am no different to many others using this forum who carefully weigh up the pros and cons of various software solutions, their relative strengths and weaknesses, the total cost of ownership of various platforms, the commitment of various software authors to innovation and forward thinking, the overall quality of a proposed direction, the opportunities and diffculties presented by the various software licensing mechanisms, and then, and only then, after weeks of careful consideration, conclude that, yes, Microsoft sucks, and it deserves everything it gets hurled at it.

I wonder...

[delirium28]

how long it will take before the site experiences a Slashdot effect.

Seriously though, this is all well and good, but what's to stop users from logging onto the site and reporting violations out of spite? Do they really expect people to believe that they will examine every alleged violation, or is this simply a way for the government to pacify those that believe the judgement was too lienient?

Re:I wonder...

[clacour]

Nothing will stop them; in fact, that one can complain anonymously will tend to encourage that.

For precisely that reason, they won't investigate every complaint, or even a large fraction of them.

Like all complaint-takers for decades (if not centuries) they will investigate things based on:

Frequency of complaint

Precision of complaint

If 500 different people complain about the same thing, it's going to be taken more seriously than if one person does.

A complaint like "Microsoft screwed me blind! I want you to GET those evil bastards!" will probably be handled by a spam filter.

(Warning to those who are overly literal-minded: the following example is completely fictional!)

A complaint like "On Friday, Jun 14th, Jahfhs Ffjl of the Microsoft Licensing group told me that I would have to pay full retail price for Windows XP Home, rather than the usual OEM price, because I sell a line of computers that run Linux," will be much more effective.

Specific dates, names, statements, amounts, etc. will get far more attention than vague hate mail.

Finally, whatever they think should be done will get choked back to what can be done, given their budget.

End result: The most flagrant violations will get curbed quickly (or may never happen because they would have been caught so quickly).

Borderline cases will break down into two groups:

The ones Microsoft doesn't care about will get "cured", and used as public-relations fodder by MS.

The ones Microsoft decidedly does not want to get stuck with will be challenged in court, or similar stalling tactics.

In a few odd cases here and there, Microsoft will get their hand slapped and have to legitimately clean up their act some.

Bottom line: As usual, it's between the two extremes mentioned. It will do some good, but there's a lot of stuff that will still fall through the cracks.

My only complaint about it is that most of the good will come in the next year or two, and it will probably eat up money for then next couple of decades...

IE not required

[xhawk]

It's good to see there is no "Best viewed with Internet Explorer" at the bottom of the page. ;^)

Re:Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

The US get's to use TLDs without country extensions for the same reason that the British get to use stamps without the name of their country on them - they invented the system.

Slow day?

[Omicron32]

30 comments and it's not even Slashdotted yet.

I'm sorely dissapointed in you people.

was it just me...

[loconet]

or did anyone else read Microsoft-Antivirus.gov Opens for Public.

I got really scared.

Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[AtariAmarok]

10. FP, Overlords, Dead Stephen King, Goatse, beowulf cluster, and all the other cliche posts (get them out of the way now so we can move on)

9. Discussion about whether or not the Borg icon applies to the story or not.

8. Someone whines about Microsoft-bashing

7. Someone whines about how bad Microsoft is.

6. "If you use Linux, you won't have this problem"

5. Something relating whatever the issue is to SCO.

4. A post about the latest gaping hole in Windows security, likely to be fresh news to many since new hole reports are coming out very frequently now.

3. A ton of complaints about the NYT's password-locked site, if the Microsoft story points there.

2. Smirking Apple users.

1. Something about *BSD being dead.

Re:Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[bl8n8r]

This is just more Microsoft bashing, and I'm all for it. A whole site dedicated to Microsoft's mis-deeds -that's great. Microsoft should concentrate on making better software, and not money. God knows how busted-ass windows is. You cant use it for anything reliable, let alone a mail server, or beowulf cluster.

I hope everyone realizes that if you run Linux, you wouldn't have any of these antitrust problems, or virus problems. Did anyone see the latest yesterday on 3 new vulnerabilities found in windows? I rest my case. You cannont *make* a secure windows box

The microsoft-antitrust website looks pretty well laid-out, and doesn't require any registraion to get in - Unlike that stupid New York Times password-locked B.S. Ya know, something else I just noticed is I've never seen Apple in the news for antitrust issues. Now there's a company you can put some stock in!

Speaking of stock, I think they should dedicate a web page on microsoft-antitrust.gov to the SCO debacle. These bastards are just pumping up the stock and dumping it and Microsoft is in on it. They need to account for their actions in the same way Enron has to, which, by the way, is going titsup just like BSD now that windriver is ditching it. Put two Borgs on this article - it deserves two.

I wonder

[fireboy1919]

Microsoft is ordered to allow interoperability.

Does this mean that they have to provide their Driver Development Kit, without which it is nearly impossible to write drivers for Windows, for free?

Re:I wonder

[Hayzeus]

Technically, it is free, although they don't seem to offer it for download anymore and impose a completely bogus $15.00 s/h fee. Sucks, but you can probably scrape together the $15.00 if you want to do driver dev.

Re:I wonder

[stephenry]

"Microsoft is ordered to allow interoperability."

They can't be doing a very good job since Microsoft has just decided to block all non-MS clients to their MSN network. To me, that classifies as interoperability.

Besides, how can these judgements be even considered fitting when MS can simply purchase companies that offer non-strategically compatible protocols (a la the recent purchase of an Anti-virus company that developed software for Linux)

But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[Compact Dick]

With Office 2003 and its Information Rights Management features, which rely on Windows 2003 Server to act as a secure repository for the authentication information.

Re:But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[hamster foo]

In this case, they aren't leveraging in the same manner as in the antitrust rulings. The antitrust ruling says they can't do something like withhold the right to distribute Windows with an OEM manufacturer's computers if that OEM also offers an alternative OS on their systems.

Releasing software that has a feature that depends on their server software isn't really the same thing. This is leverage of course, but it is legal leverage.

Their coders are busy now

[Anonymous Coward]

Expect a new security patch for IE shortly.

/.ing Netcraft..

[grub]

Some poor admin at Netcraft is 'tail -f'ing the logfile and thinking "Holy moly, Slashdot must have run a story on 'Microsoft-Antitrust.gov'.."

Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[rklrkl]

Yes, not only is the site running IIS on W2K, but the final (upload) field on the complaint form is most amusing.

Whilst the prior three fields give you 8K of plain text which to fill in, the final field only lets you upload in one of two proprietary closed-source word processor document formats (one of which is ironically Microsoft's) - nope, you're not allowed to upload SXW format (Open Office), plain text or even PDF files ! Also note that you're allowed a 1000K upload too, thanks to the bloatedness of the two formats they do allow...

On to more relevant things

[brsmith4]

After sifting and sorting through the myriad of posts pointing out that this site is running IIS 5 and how the govt. is so hypocritical for doing so, I've come to the conclusion that some if not most slashdotter's are too riled by minor details. It conveys a serious lack of intelligence on our part. But I digress...

While going through some of the PDF docs on the site, mostly pertaining to court judgements, I noticed that many of these documents reference the Sherman Anti-trust Act.

2 Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. 2

Monopolizing trade a felony; penalty

Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court

For those that don't know, this is Section 2 of the Sherman act, which Microsoft was found in violation of. I see the fine of $10,000,000 as a maximum to be completely impotent against a company with a financial foundation such as microsoft's. There should be some sort of percentage of profits reaped from the anti-competitive behavior that should be taken away. $10,000,000 is a drop in the bucket for microsoft. The penalty should be stiffer.

I'd be interested in filing a complaint regarding their procedures regarding the computer sales market, how pretty much all PCs come with their product and their "tax" regardless of whether or not you want it. THAT is a complaint worth filing. I am being FORCED to pay for a PRODUCT that I NEVER asked for nor implied that I wanted.

MSN/Windows Messenger

[R0]

Is preinstalling MSN/Windows Messenger in windows illegal? And is it relevent to the judgements?

'Microsoft' and 'Opens' and 'Public'

[Anonymous Coward]

Never use the words 'Microsoft' 'Opens' and 'Public' in a headline ever again. It's very deceiving.

My brain can't handle it. I spittaked my coffee all over my keyboard.

Microsoft don't eat their own dog food.

[pubjames]

I just found this very entertaining table on Netcraft:

http://www.atrc.net.pk/news/microsoft_london_lin ux _hosted.html

It shows that Microsoft use Linux to deliver their web site content to Europe.

If there was ever a good way to convince your PHB that Linux is a capable system, this must be it. Email that link to your PHB today!

Left them a comment...

[rongage]

If you go to http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/contactus.asp you will find that they have a nice little web form for commentary to them.

For example, my comment to them...

It's pretty darned ironic that your department has chosen to host a website on Microsoft Windows 2000 and Internet Information Services. Was this a deliberate choice on your part to help demonstrate the monopoly power of Microsoft, or did you genuinely no know that you had several no-cost (acquisition wise) choices available to you?

Re:Great

[TedCheshireAcad]

Good ol' Netcraft:

The site www.microsoft-antitrust.gov is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000.

End of life issues

[jwjcmw]

My company develops windows applications, and one thing we are running into is the end of life issues.

Right now NT4 has reached the end of its support, and will be end-of-life next June. There are still many corporate environments where NT4 is the norm, and many of them aren't going to be changing anytime soon. This makes it hard for a developer who wants to create a product that works on NT4 through XP, as there is little or no support for adding or changing the NT4 platform at MS. However, it is not a problem for MS, since if they have any problems with an application (Word, Excel, IE, etc) not working on NT4, they have the ability to ship a change to the operating system with the update to the application(probably even after the "end-of-life"). This makes it hard for developers who have to say, yes you can use our product, but you have to upgrade to a later version of Windows, where MS can just say go ahead and buy this product now...you can upgrade the operating system when you are ready. This drives more of the application use on these older systems to only using MS products.

I wonder if that aspect has ever been discussed in any of the anti-trust proceedings.

Windows Critical Update Notification

[Xaroth]

Security Update for Microsoft Windows(KB1337N008)
Download size: 1 KB, < 1 minute
A security issue has been identified in Microsoft Windows that could allow an end-user to see information detrimental to the Microsoft Empire(tm) by allowing the user to visit certain anti-Microsoft government sites. You can help protect Microsoft by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Read more...

Oh The Irony

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

Sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh.

yeah!

[pyrrho]

morals are stupid!