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Half-Life 2 - A Linux User's Lament
jvm writes "If you're a gamer with a pulse, you've probably heard about the impending release of Valve's Half-Life 2. As a gamer and a Linux user, I always get a little stirred up about the whole Half-Life situation, where we have a dedicated server but no client. So here's my reflection on the sad situation, past and present. How will the rest of the Linux gaming community react to the release of Half-Life 2? Boot into Windows? Wait for WINE or WineX support? Get the Xbox version? With so many Half-Life servers running on Linux, will the same be true for Half-Life 2?"
I swear it was like watching your dog get hit by a car as he returned from the pound.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Linux has a strong hold in the server market, but not so much with clients. It would seem be holding true here too, but not for the same reasons.
I finally said goodby to Windows almost a year ago, and I won't be going back for a mere game, no matter how good it is. If they won't support me, I won't support them.
If they do decide to port it, though, I will gladly give them some of my money. Sadly, I don't see that happening. I guess I'll just have to give it to id and Epic instead.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
When linux comes out with a directx equivelent then they might write for it ( this is ONE set of API's ) . Not opengl doesn't count, that is only graphics.
You need sound,graphics,networking,AND graphics card writers writing to those drivers. That is what makes windows such a good gaming platform. Linux needs to consolidate and throw away the 4 graphics libraries and the 3 different sound package and the 60 windowing library packages and get down to one standard that EVERYONE uses. Not a lot of people use one, then debian uses another cause it ain't GPL and linux using a combination of 3 and suse using another cause its written outside the USA.
Linux needs to stopping getting into a pissing war over who's library is better and I re-wrote this library cause I like it better my way and consolidate.
Then maybe folks will port apps. If I write a game on linux 7.2 it better damn well work on redhat 11 without needing download 65 new packages and getting updates from the vendor.
fp?
YOU FAIL IT!
This does raise a good point. I pointed this out later, but the Linux community is VERY VERY happy to support those who take time for them. Your right about what you say "you make a game for us, we won't forget." Then again, it is not like Valve doesn't care about this segment of the market, it is a case where they have only so much time and they are doing what they can to get what they can out there.
Who knows, maybe we will see a native Linux version, but you can't hold your breath for it.
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
I loved half-life....counterstrike was my know all be all in college. I played that game every night like there was no tomorrow...probably why I bombed out of college :-/ So take this into consideration as I'm casting my vote down now....
I switched over to Linux as a desktop about three years ago...I dumped half life...it was a very very very hard thing for me to do because yes I was ungoldy adicted to it. I picked up Tribes2. Then after Loki died and Sierra wanted to patch only the Windows version of Tribes2 I started a petition....made a lot of people really ticked off about the things I said along the lines of Sierra making a commitment to Linux users because we use their network and it says this in our EULA...and yadda yadda yadda...it wasn't pretty. Eventually some guys that used to work for Loki ported it over without Sierra even knowning about it.
But the brick wall I ran into when that entire thing went down made me realize that the gaming industry was not at all thinking with a full deck. No one seams to doubt in the tech field that Linux will only be gaining desktop space in the future and yet there is such a hard rock to move for even basic support under Linux. I really don't think it is only a matter of the # of Linux gamers out there....
So out comes half life 2 now and at first I actually thought I had a choice to make....go back to windows just to play the game I was so in love with or tuff it out in Linux. This thought only crossed my mind for about 30 seconds but still it happened...and I'm sure those still addicted to the game are still thinking about it. Valve's creators new the success of Half-Life 1 being used under wine in Linux (the #'s of gamers here...not how well it did or didn't work)...they had two petitions in front of them to know how many people thought it was important to provide a Linux version long before Half-Life 2 was ever put into stone. They choose not to. They choose to ignore the biggest thing to hit the Tech world since Windows 3.1.
I for one stopped thinking about Half-Life 2 when I saw someone post a link to this game that DOES have a linux version
http://www.s2games.com/savage/downloads.html
Something new and cool...something that I will not have to switch platforms just to use....why bother with valve...they've chosen their path.
They chose the easy and cheap way out... cancel the port
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
Valve has a long reputation of discontinuing projects.
Team Fortress 2 was originaly supposed to come out for half life, then they announced it as a separate game. After TFC came out, Team Fortress 2 turned into vaporware. Valve at one point did announce they were working on a linux port of the first half life, I don't know what happened to that. Counter-Strike: Condition Zero seems to also have dropped off of the radar.
In fact, it realy wouldn't surprise me at all if Half Life 2 just stopped seeing any press releases, and suddenly turned into vaporware.
I wasn't aware any of Blizzard's games were linux native (not including Wine, of course).
As for your other statements, I respect your opinion, and disagree with your flamebait modding, but please provide evidence that DX is better than OGL. I have heard that the latest incarnation of OGL is just as good, if not better than DX 9, and I am wondering if anyone could explain what is the main quality differences between the 2.
I'm a little disappointed with Valve about now. Strike one is the DRM nitemare called Steam that they're shoving down the gaming community's throat. OMG! What a fiasco that is. Strike two is the shutting out of linux users. If Id can support linux, why can't Valve?
What I don't fully understand is why Valve went with DX9 over CG and openGL, especially since DX9's HLSL is essentially identical to CG. CG offers cross-platform compatibility. DX9 limits the portability of HL2. So why do it?
When all else fails, run.
Then there is the Linux GUI mess. So much to choose from... but unlike picking your favorite car that runs on all the roads and uses the same fuel, all these cars require special catering. As a result, a patchwork of gas stations, peripheral shops, garage shops, tire stores, highway departments and even traffic ticketting methods have popped up. Sure, we can all point to "Gravel Definition Language (GDL)" and "Open Road Sign Language (ORSL)" but those do not fix the whole problem. I sincerely hope that the Linux / Open Source... well just the non-MS providers start working together to fix this (have you seen the 'tudes from some of the various forums and mailing lists? Bloody flame fests they are). That will be a glorious day when developer studios will start popping out Linux releases of games the same date as the Windows versions. Until then... like it, love it, emulate it or wait and hope.
What/who this post is not by:
- Windows user
- winex user
- wine user except in emergencies
What/who this is by:Nice sentiment - unfortunately it does not mean much. The lack of sales due to people using Linux won't hurt Valve in any measurable way. The problem really is that if you want to play games, you have to have Windows.
I tried this a few years ago, I switched entirely to Linux on my home PC. Guess What? I had a bunch of nice Loki Games, but other than Quake 3 I could not deathmatch with my friends in games like Half Life.
That did not do me much good. So, I started looking into different ways to get Half Life to run under Linux, wine, etc. I had to fiddle with drivers, modify stuff etc...
Then I realized I was wasting my time for an ideal. I did this same thing all day at work on Linux servers. And when I got home the last thing I wanted to do was tweak my OS just so I could play a couple games with my friends.
So, sure, your logic makes sense if you only use your PC for browsing, MP3's and email - which I mostly use mine for. However, a large number of my friends play Half Life*, and I like to play with them.
The fact is, that there are a large number of people who want to play games on their PC's, and I am one of them. It would be wonderful if I could run Linux with a MacOS X interface, and have all the software out there run on my system just fine. But we don't have that. So, while it is good that you are maintaing your ideals, and not buying Half Life 2 to support Linux software. In the long run it makes no difference either way.
What CAN we do?
Well - find some way to make games profitable for Linux. Sure, it is a chicken and the egg problem - Linux needs desktop dominance for that, and that is a LONG LONG way off for Linux (unfortunately).
*And now America's Army which does have a Linux client, but the communications software we use does not.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Welcome to earth. Nice to have you here.
This has been an issue in computing for the last decade: PC game companies write games for Windows. That's the way it was, that's the way it is, and unless something drastic happens, that's the way it's always going to be. Gamers use Windows because it's the platform the majority of PC games are on, and PC game companies target Windows because that's where the vast majority of their audience is.
This isn't a Linux-specific issue either. As an OS/2 user for the last 12 years (and Linux user for the past 4 or 5), I've seen it first hand. The only thing that will potientiall change the situation is if the game companies either see a huge decrease in the sales of their Windows titles, or feel there is sufficiently pent-up demand for Linux-based titles.
Personally, I don't see that happening anytime soon. My advice to you is to do what I did -- leave your PC for serious work, and go out and buy a PlayStation 2, a good TV, and a surround sound system. Add in the network adapter and the PS2 Linux kit, and you have a kick-ass game system, DVD player, and Linux box all in one nice black box, leaving your PCs available for more serious computing tasks.
Yaz.
As others have mentioned, the problem is that Valve embraced DirectX 9 as the only API they would use to run the game.
The stupid thing is, they couldn't even just say they would code pure DirectX 9, because Nvidia in their wisdom decided to implement DirectX 9 in their own proprietary way, thus leading to the current public spat with Valve saying they had to code separate paths to have Nvidia hardware work with the game anyway!!
It really is time that a game protocol is made that is truly able to be used as a cross-platform API. I mean, game developers must surely realise that if they were able to code in one API and have it compile under Windows, Linux, Xbox, PS2, GameCube etc, they would make way more money servicing all the market segments, not just one, and save on development costs to boot!
OpenGL 2 is touted as being all that DirectX 9 is and more, plus it is an open protocol, but game developers need to use it and help formulate it for it to be a success.
I use Windows because of the games. That's the ONLY reason. Linux is more than capable of being my primary OS for web browsing, email, office work etc. But without developers coding for Linux, it will never gain the crucial support of the younger generation whose first question will be "What games run on it?" And if you don't hook 'em while they're young, then you will lose another generation to Microsoft's grasp.
ATI and Nvidia both supply 3D drivers for their cards, so why aren't they trying to get developers on board to actually code or port GAMES for the Linux market???
Someone really needs to write a GameOS version of Linux, and basically give it away as open source. If one or two top games like Half Life 2 or Doom III were able to run on it, it would soon saturate the market and provide developers with a free alternative to developing purely for Microsoft. Heck, why doesn't Sun write it? It could be a whole new line for them and firmly establish them as a true competitor to Microsoft. Just make it an open source game protocol is all I ask.
Visceral Psyche Films
Lets see,
:) THANK YOU FOR PLAYING!
I paid 50 bucks for my tin box edition Linux quake3 and installed it on FreeBSD. I paid 40 bucks for my Linux version of RTCW. I paid 50 bucks for UT2003 and it installed on Linux. I paid like 20 for UT because I came it late. So like, you really don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
Too bad Steam is already proving to be DRMified shit. I don't have very high hopes for HL2 anymore. I'm sick of Gabe Newell whining about why he can't get his shitty code to work with nvidia cards when everybody else doesn't seem to have any problems. On the other hand, ID has always done right by me. They kinda invented the whole Genre and their games ALWAYS blow everyone away. So I'm pretty sure Doom3 and Quake4 will rock intently. I hope UT2004 is at least as fun with instagib as UT2003 is. It's not a terribly great game.
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
What you like, fail to note is that there were like about 100 of you, in total like, that bought anything for Linux. The rest just said "RTCW wants to be free!" like, and pirated a windows copy.
So you talk like, like a retarded valley girl or something. THANK YOU FOR LIKE, SHARING YOUR DELUSION!
OpenGL 1.4 is already released. OpenGL 1.5 and 2.0 are the ones that are being discussed by the ARB still. Most of the features for OpenGL 1.5 are already usable as extensions, they're just not required to be supported by the vendors to be OpenGL 1.4 compatible (obviously).
Even OpenGL 2.0 is just a lot of OpenGL 1.x features standardized and cleaned up a bit in a couple cases (although deprecated interfaces will remain for backwards compatibility for a while).
Complaining about porting time is just another way to make the world think it's not their fault for not using a portable programming model in the first place.
Can anyone say, SDL? Because Valve can't even seem to spell it.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Remember EpicGames? The folks who developed UT and UT2003. Well, you can now be sure we won't be seeing any more Linux titles from them. According to this article, EpicGames and Microsoft have just signed a multi-game publishing deal which would make the games PC/XBOX-exclusive and I really doubt MSFT would permit any kind of Linux support.
It is.
Or rather, it can be. Quake 3 run faster on my GNU/Linux partition than on windows, etc. It is efficient. Companies just refuse to take the risk to embrace this market (except ID and some other, more power to 'em !).
The question is not whether GNU/Linux could be an OS for gamers. It could indeed. Yes, gamers would be a little lost, not having to install new drivers for the graphical device twice a day. But if there were a real game market, the manufacturer might spend more time on up to date drivers for our OS. (to have more game we need the drivers -- chicken-egg problem -- blah blah -- YES. Still, you won't succeed unless you try. This is the very essence of GNU/Linux).
The question could be, should we make it a gaming platform. Why not, I think the power of this OS lies in its versatility. We do not lack gamers IMHO : most of the current userbase is more or less hard-core geeks. Many of them prefer to code (and many w$ users prefer to work or word or
So, will GNU/Linux become a (The?) gaming platform, I don't know. With Doom 3 and Deus Ex 2, we'll still have 2 out of the three big FPS's to come, which is not that bad. Who knows if the other developpers will follow the example ? The answer is quite simple : buy the game and play under GNU/Linux (sorry RMS
theefer
I paid 50 bucks for my tin box edition Linux quake3 and installed it on FreeBSD. I paid 40 bucks for my Linux version of RTCW. I paid 50 bucks for UT2003 and it installed on Linux. I paid like 20 for UT because I came it late.
You might have done - but you are not representative of the games market as a whole. If you were, Loki would still be in business.
So valve is familiar with how to write code for linux and they use it to make money. Bioware didn't but they did support linux, sure it took them time but they did it. Thanks.
So is it really that stupid to expect a company like Valve to give something back for all those linux machines that have helped make their game great?
Remember that the the cost of the engine, the bit that would need porting, is minor nowadays to the cost of creating the world, the art, wich doesn't need to be ported.
So the real problem the poster has is not that valve like the fast majority of game companies ignores linux. They made gratefull use of linux by running their game servers on it. Is it then really that odd to expect that they would this time also allow all those linux users who helped made their game great to be able to play it as well? It is not like the cost of porting is all that big. They know how to write for linux and considering it comes out on x-box they know how to port.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Let's put it this way.
Ut2003. I bought 4 copies of it BECAUSE it works with linux.
I gave out 2 of the copies to friends with a copy of redhat.
I also used to do the same with the other games available from loki, and constantly told people to go to loki.
I ave over 20 commercial games that work on linux on my shelf. Many more games than I ever have bought for windows, and I know that I am not alone.
Linux gaming is at the point where Mac Gaming has been for the past 10 years, hopefully it will increase in the future, but the only way to do it is to be good advocates and make noise with our wallets AND tell the companies that you bought their product BECAUSE of the linux version.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Cheats in gaming has becomed an increased problem in some on-line games.
Since WINE sports Hardware acceleration, future game hacks (e.g. a program that aims for you, and other cheats) that are developed to run and hack through WINE, might be undetectable for the Windows anti-cheat program. Thus, it might be that the Anti-Cheat will block any WINE.
I've allready seen cheats that is undetectable through WINE in Half-Life Counter-Strike, and my guess it's only a matter of time before WINE is getting blocked, unless a anti-cheat client from within Linux is written.
My Ti4800 running nVidia driver version 1.0-4496 disagrees with you. I average 80fps in Enemy Territory at 1280x1024. I don't think I'd do much better in Windows.
It seems to me that the answer is in the question. A good portion of HL servers run on Linux. Those servers collectively hold a decent amount of power over the ongoing success of HL. If they shut down, demanding a Linux client, Valve sure would wake up.
Eh? Of course Loki was mismanaged, but there was no way we could have IPOd and 'cashed out (and this was recognized internally by management)', nor was that the focus. And even if the company has been managed properly, there's no way it would still be around. One poster mentioned that Linux gaming is just like Mac gaming has been for the last 10 years--this is bullshit. There are at least three Mac porting houses that are alive and well, and new games are released all the time for the Mac. I have Warcraft 3, Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale, No One Lives Forever, Civilization 3, and Jedi Knight 2 sitting in my Dock right now. Linux gaming is at the point where it can support one person (Ryan Gordon) doing porting work full-time.
m.
"Sebastian you're in a mess. They called you King of all the Hipsters, is it true or are you still the Queen?" -- B
I run 4 different OSes on 4 different computers.
They are like shoes you see. Some are appropriate to stomp around in the dirt with. Some are better for formal situations, and some are jsut plain compfortable.
Draw the analogy anyway you like, I own Quake 3 for Linux and I never ever did get it running to my satisfaction. The support for Linux Gaming just isn't there.Is that such a bad thing. Does Linux have to be all things to all people? It is wonderful and beautiful in it's niche but without a lot of work it is hopelessly outclassed in the gaming department.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
They could have easily written the engine to use OpenGL as well as DirectX. It's that plain, that simple. I should know, Linux Game Publishing does this sort of thing on a regular basis.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Coordinate a day with other Half Life Linux Server administrators to select a day once a week, two weeks, or month to turn off your Half Life Linux Server. Make sure that the creators of Half Life 2 know that the reason that you are doing this is to convince them to release a Linux client of HL2.
Why did I lurk so long before registering for a Slashdot account? I could have had a Slashdot ID of less than 100000.
I assure you, Linux Game Publishing, Hyperion, and others would be more than happy to help w/the testing, tuning, etc. with a game company. And we'd not be mis-managing the situation like Loki did.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Loki didn't go out of business because there wasn't a market. Loki went out of business because the upper management was utterly clueless.
Scott bought some 50k units of those stupid tins, etc. and delayed the release of the Linux version (which SHOULD have went out only a week or so AFTER the Windows version) by nearly a month. Worse, he wasted the money on the massive production run when he should have done something more reasonable like 5k units to limit his losses. Had he done that, the margins per unit would have been smaller, but the game might have broke even.
Loki bit off more games than they could comfortably afford and did pathetically stupid business decisions with the ones they DID have.
THAT is what killed Loki.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Wasn't Half Life the first big game that required a unique key for each player that was submitted back to the mothership before allowing online play?
;-)
Sounds like Activation to me.
I haven't bought HalfLife
But no, its not "real" Activation. real activation is where the program will not work at all (or only for a brief period) before you need to communicate with the mothership, and get authentication keys based on your hardware/software configuration.
You can play single player HalfLife forever. You can play LAN games of HalfLife forever.
I'm not sure you can play on the internet without your CD key being validated by WON servers though - this is borderline, but not quite as bad since its just a key you got when you bought the CD(and not something calculated based on the system set) - of course you have the problem if the servers go down, or gets taken down. As we can see now, they are changing to their new EvilWare system "Steam" and will remove the Won servers, at that point most people will be forced to use steam (or quite likely someone will hack the game so it can play without)
ID as usual did it better, they had a CD key as well, but if the game was unable to authenticate with the server it would still allow you to play (presumably there was some other penalty, such as you couldn't join some servers who insisted on a validated id)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
If they're abstracting the DirectX stuff, like most games seem to be doing (Well, some do a better job of it than others... :-) then it's a moderately simple matter of sliding in the changes to the abstraction layer to support the other platforms. Some of the code's warped because of DirectX, but unless they're doing some bog stupid things like thoroughly intermixing the DirectX code throughout the game engine code (Not likely, but possible), then a port is possible- if they're amenable to the act and willing to license the rights for a reasonable rate.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Slashdot _would_ exist without "programmers getting paid" for keeping it alive, and I dare say it would even suck less. You have a low enough ID# to remember when
At a grocery store maybe. But grocery stores are not the only place where you get the stuff to fill your belly. Ever heard of collectives? Most of the OSS is collective work too. How do you think people filled their bellies all the thousands of years when currency itself didn't exist?
The OSS developers do their best and then share and take advantage of eachothers works thus eliminating the "suits taxation" wherer a lot of their sweat is converted to money for in effect non-producing individuals. Also, it really shold be needless to mention all the OSS companies who sell services instead, but I guess you may have forgotten about them too?
And remember: Don't eat your soul to fill your belly!
Cheers...