European Parliament Clashes Over Software Patents

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European Parliament Clashes Over Software Patents

Posted by michael on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @10:56AM from the civilized-debate-as-usual dept.

D4C5CE writes "The European Parliament's Daily Notebook reports on the turbulent final plenary debate this morning regarding a draft Directive to legalize Software Patents (which are currently unlawful under Art.52 (2) (c) of the European Patent Convention). The Notebook quotes some truly bizarre views and arguments (which no doubt you'll take the time to point out to Members of the European Parliament before tomorrow's vote), with some MEPs even claiming to feel harassed because they are suddenly also being lobbied by numerous concerned citizens, rather than solely by industry representatives as usual."

10 of 213 comments (clear)

Heaven forefend! by Atario · 2003-09-23 10:59 · Score: 5, Funny

with some MEPs even claiming to feel harassed because they are suddenly also being lobbied by numerous concerned citizens, rather than solely by industry representatives as usual.

Imagine that -- contacted by (ugh) commoners. Oh, the ignominy!

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"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
you gotta love the European Parliament... by The+Lynxpro · 2003-09-23 11:04 · Score: 5, Funny

If I were an EU citizen, I'd certainly run for office. How can you not win a constituency when less than 10% of people turn out for the voting?

10. Gain EU Citizenship through the liberal citizenry laws in the Republic of Ireland.

20. Move to an EU country, err, excuse me, "Member State."

30. Run for the EU Parliament. Have 2 people vote for me and I win my seat!

40. PROFIT!!!

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"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
1. Re:you gotta love the European Parliament... by ahillen · 2003-09-23 19:13 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Which EU *Member State* do you live in? If I am to believe what the Financial Times reports, the turnout for EU Parliament elections in the U.K. are frequently at or below the 10% threshhold. I would also imagine that in other EU Member States that have a low regard for the Eurocracy also poll quite low as well (Sweden perhaps?)...
  
  Why dont you just inform yoursel before just writing some wild guesses and thus givin a wrong impression? A simple Google search ("europarl European Elections") gives you as 4th link the UK office of the european parlament with information on the election turnout (http://www.europarl.org.uk/guide/textonly/Gelectt x.htm#facts) (please not the word facts at the end... ;) ).
  
  To quote some numbers:
  UK turnout has been between 24% and 36% in the last 5 elections, which is not at or below the 10% threshhold.
  Sweden had a turnout of 41.6% and 38.3% in the 2 elections it took part.
  Denmark had between 46.1% and 52.9%.
  Belgium had aturnout alway >=90%.
  EU average had been between 49.4% and 63%.
  Unfortunately there is a negative trend, so in 20 years your statement might become true (which is especially sad because the EU parlament becomes more and more important...)
  
  if France and Germany are not forced to meet their treaty obligations...
  
  As a German I can say that at least the fact that Germany is breaking the stability pact for the second year in a row is not due to unwillingness, but due to inaptitude
Open letter from SuSE by FonkiE · 2003-09-23 11:06 · Score: 5, Informative

SuSE wrote an open letter [german] today. Translation is here.
They are of course against software patents...
Just look at the U.S. by Ikeya · 2003-09-23 11:15 · Score: 5, Funny

I mean, software patents work so great over here with no problems at all! They should just model their system after the U.S.!

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Re:Interesting. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-23 11:24 · Score: 5, Informative

READ THE ARTICLE YOU CRETINS! Only Arlene Macarthy complained of harassment for reasons that are perfectly obvious to anyone who knows ANYTHING about the situation. Who the hell is modding this shit as insightful?
watched it live by rjkm · 2003-09-23 11:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

Somebody in the Linux DVB group was so kind to point out yesterday that there is a TV channel with live feeds of such discussions on http://europa.eu.int/comm/ebs/reception_en.html.

I watched the discussion on software patents this morning. I have to say that without knowing the real backgrounds you could really fall for the arguments of the proponents. No, they do not want laws like the US, they want to restrict software patents. I don't know how they can keep straight faces saying that. Luckily, some other speakers did not fail to mention that software patents are actually against the law and the new proposal would legalize those patents. Restrictions to the new law (like those discussed on Slashdot yesterday) are not needed. Simply do not pass the new law and enforce the existing ones.

The so-called harrassments by citizens also were described quite differently depending on the side the speaker was on. The speakers for patents pretended to be offended by such wild actions.
The speakers against rather described them as reasonable concerns by middle sized businesses who fear for their survival.

"Linus aeh Linux" was also mentioned. But one speaker talked about "Unix, which is free"?! Hmmm, let's not let Darl hear about this.
Re:Could be worse... by \/\/ · 2003-09-23 12:01 · Score: 5, Interesting

It's supposed to be confusing. Yes, to the unsuspecting computer guy (and MP!) it reads like pure software patents should not be allowed. What it means in reality, you can read on FFII's web site.

Especially read 4. How CEC/JURI ensure Unlimited Patentability: Some Sample Provisions from their Directive Proposal for a translation into real English: For a patent laywer, the term "computer-implemented inventions" means that everything that potentially runs on a computer (like, Software) can now be patented! Compare this to the existing law, which explicitly forbids pure software patents, yet the EPO (European Patent Office) granted ~30,000 software patents, from one-click shopping over email archiving to progress bars (so much for the "don't extend current practice" bit).

What it would mean for Linux et al. if this practice will be officially sanctioned we all know...
Re:Could be worse... by rhysweatherley · 2003-09-23 12:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

In fact, most of the stuff I read was simply clarifying existing statements that "computer-implemented inventions may be patented" (not software itself, but inventions that incorporate a software component), adding additional clarification on when it would not be appropriate to consider pure software or business methods "computer-implemented inventions".
And herein lies the slippery slope. The current version makes it illegal to patent software on its own, but not software used as one component in some otherwise physical product. The standard example given, regurgitated by some of the MEP's in the referenced article, is that of mobile phones.
However, the mobile phone argument shows exactly why this is still a bad law. Mobile phones these days are essentially "software plus an antenna". So what happens when we allow people to patent "algorithm X plus an antenna"?
What we get is this: some open source programmer writes algorithm X, and deploys it in a usual fashion. Some patent miscreant then jumps up and says "hey, you're running algorithm X on a laptop with a wireless network card! You're infringing my patent and owe me royalties!".
No, the current "clarifications" are no good. Software patenting must be abolished completely, in all of its forms. If the physical device does not have some unique and novel feature of its own, sans software, then the device should not be patentable. Period.
Re:Interesting. by asscroft · 2003-09-23 13:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's so sad that you're calling the US brain-dead and I can't disagree. It's mind boggling. The internet and world wide media was supposed to show the rest of the world how great we are, but it's done a lot to show me how f-ed up we are.

Just today on Fox News Oreilly had a big thing comparing America's teen pregnancy and STD rated to Europes, and then comparing America's Abstinence as the only option approach versus Europes Libertine sex-ed approach. We have four times the pregnancy rate as France and 12 times the ghonnorhea rate as Denmark. F-in Amsterdam where prostitution is legal, and there are more STD cases per 100000 here. WTF? Something isn't working.

Same holds true for binge drinking rates at college and underage drinking rates in the US versus alchohol use and abuse in europe. Suprisingly, toleration of alchohol creates a healthier mentality versus abolition (for those under 21). Exact same issue as sex.

The same holds true for Marijuana use/abuse. Not to mention the waste of money the war on Marijuana is.

Software Patents aren't an idealogy problem like these. They are instead a business vs. consumer problem. Yet, the business vs. consumer stance of europe makes so much more sense than America's sell-out policies.

I'm so disappointed in this puritanical corporate-sell out country. ( I know, if you don't like it, leave). Well maybe I will. I'll live where I'm free to code without fear of the DMCA and where I'm free to read without the government looking up my library records and where my children will get education and we'll all get health care and where my neighbor can smoke a J and it's no big deal because it really isn't a big deal and all that drug war money is instead spent to make life better. Imagine a land where you're free to tinker, and where we're brave enough to allow personal choices. Hmm, how ironic, home of the free and the brave. That should be HERE. That should describe America.

oh well. maybe someday.

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because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre