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TIA Project to End

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the let-freedom-ring dept.

Marnhinn writes "MSNBC is reporting that the Terrorism Spying Project (also known as TIA) is dead. The government is cancelling most of the project and changing the rest to focus on people outside the United States." TIA had been on death's door for a while, but now it's finally official. Some of the programs will still be around, however, they will just be shifted over to different departments.

46 of 216 comments (clear)

  1. I'm not an American... by MaestroSartori · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and I don't think I'm hugely paranoid about evil government and so on, but I suspect most of the things that TIA was going to do are probably already going on in one form or another behind the scenes.

    Maybe the only good thing about formalising it would be that at least there'd be some sort of accountability...

    --
    Game dev and music blog
    1. Re:I'm not an American... by msgmonkey · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well one interesting legal point someone mentioned a while back was whilst most countries constitutions do not allow spying on their citizens there is nothing stopping them from spying on other counties citizens. A legal loophole would allow lets say the US and UK to have an agreement whereby they say "you spy on mine and I'ill spy on yours and we'ill exchange the information"

    2. Re:I'm not an American... by AlecC · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A legal loophole would allow lets say the US and UK to have an agreement whereby they say "you spy on mine and I'ill spy on yours and we'ill exchange the information"

      While, as you say, this might well be legal, the political/PR consequences if it got out would be enormous - far too much risk for the "other" govenrment to take. Look how much fuss there was when the Israelis were found to be collecting relatively samlla amounts of information about the US.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    3. Re:I'm not an American... by KingJoshi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When there were rumors that the US has bugged rooms in the United Nations a little while back, I think ALL the diplomats reacted as though it was common practice. And not just from the United States either.

      And it's not just about US planting bugs all over China's premier's plane. It'd be foolish for leaders of ally nations to assume that just because you're an ally, that we won't try to get more info than you're telling us. And we'd be foolish not to expect the same.

      So, with that said, it'd make sense if the FBI/CIA or whomever contacted agencies in UK and said, would you happen to have info on this guy...

      --
      In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
    4. Re:I'm not an American... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone here believe the US and UK governments aren't spying on their own citizens, legally or not?

    5. Re:I'm not an American... by Talthane · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That might not be the best example. The US and UK collaborate to a much greater extent than the US and Israelis do, and it's already going on - and not just in Iraq. For example, the Echelon listening system that's run jointly by the American NSA and GCHQ here in England. There's a nice political loophole that gets used - "hey, we speak the same language and used to be the same country, we'll be okay, let's just spy on those dang furriners instead" - so they don't have to publicise it or seek approval.

      Sigh.

      --
      "This is why men never share their feelings; because women always remember." -Just Shoot Me.
    6. Re:I'm not an American... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, if they could narrow it down to "this guy" or "that gal," they would still have authority under PATRIOT to do damn near anything they want provided with sufficient justification. The problem with TIA was narrowing the net down to 270 million or so people in the hopes of finding something interesting, sort of like scooping up the entire Pacific Ocean in the hopes of finding a sea urchin.

    7. Re:I'm not an American... by KrispyKringle · · Score: 3, Informative
      This was allegedly the case with Echelon (many, many prior stories about it here on Slashdot). Allegedly, as I said, there was an agreement between the five signing nations (US, UK, Australia, Germany, and someone else...) to "share" information on each other's citizens to circumvent restrictions.

      To be fair, a lot of this really is hype, though. I doubt that much of this went on in a very general scrope--though possibly isolated incidents like industrial espionage ofpersonal vendettas are more likely--simply because that amount of information takes way too much time to do any reasonable processing with. They don't have the manpower.

      This was the one interesting (from an academic viewpoint) aspect of TIA. How can you process so much information from so many different sources in so many different forms, and build any real predictions or patterns in it? Especially when we don't really even have any samples of "terrorist-like activity." I mean, what, do terrorists all run up their credit card debt before killing themselves, figuring they won't have to deal with it anyway?

    8. Re:I'm not an American... by I+Want+GNU! · · Score: 2, Informative
      the US didn't plant the bugs, a leader in competition with China's leader planted the bugs. This was admitted to by the Chinease.
      I wasn't aware of any US bugs, but Google turned up this article by a left leaning UK paper that claims bugs, and since the parent post made a weak claim that claimed a "rumor," I'd certainly consider this to be at the very least to be a "rumor," whether or not it is confirmed. And before you dismiss this as a leftist press, I'd note that they correctly dismissed the Iraqi "tractor trailers" as Hydrogen producing vehicles, a month or two before the mainstream New York Times reported on it (some accuse them of being leftist, but they are usually pretty conservative in making sure they have evidence to back up claims, except of course in Judith Miller's conservatively biased articles that only cited Chalabi (who Cheney and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld wanted to install as leader of Iraq), and Jayson Blair's articles).

      Also, I couldn't find anything to back up your claim that China bugged UN offices, though I seem to have a vague recollection about something that Russia bugged. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
    9. Re:I'm not an American... by Downside · · Score: 2, Informative
      [PR consequences of US and UK spying on each other]

      Nobody seemed to pay much interest in the UK when former CIA director James Woolsey admitted the fact (which like many truths, appears to be common knowledge amongst the entire population of the country apart from the politicians) that the US is commercially spying on us.

    10. Re:I'm not an American... by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Except that, in turn, is illegal. You can't collect domestic intelligence, and you cannot accept domestic intelligence from outside sources.

      This goes back to Nixon when the put a wall up between the FBI and the CIA. The CIA has no law enforcement role, and can gather all of the speculative information it cares to.

      The FBI's mission is law enforcement. Everything the FBI gathers has the possibility of being dragged into a courtroom. They have to play by the books, or they cannot use their evidence in a trial.

      The trial of Zacarias Moussaoui is a textbook reason why such a division exists. All of the evidence gathered about him is non-admissible in court, according to the rules laid out in the Constitution. Had the FBI gathered this information on their own, they would have a much stronger case. Instead, they nabbed a few CIA files, and took depositions from witnesses they had no intention of allowing Mr. Moussaoui to confront, and are citing intelligence that they don't want in the public record.

      The Judge in the case has declared Shenanigans on the Justice Department, mostly on 6th admendment grounds:

      Admendment VI

      In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    11. Re:I'm not an American... by Gerdia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      supposedly...

      The NSA records and evaluates the communications of US citizens all the time. They are watching, of course. They have cast a huge net and overhear all sorts of things.

      However, they cannot use these things as evidence in a US court unless they had permission from a judge to conduct the surveillance, before the fact. I don't know how difficult this is to acquire these days, but I believe it is still the case.

      They cannot use intelligence from foreign countries to spy on US citizens without a judge's approval either. so it is said...

      This doesn't mean they wouldn't overhear something and then "anonymously" call the local police tip line in your area... or doing something else to "launder" the information. I'm sure there are many little birdies telling all sorts of things these days.

  2. Whatever... by goldenfield · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So its 'officially' cancelled...I have a hard time believe that the government thought it was important/useful, and now everyone has agreed that we don't need it, and has moved on.

    So now there's no offical TIA project...that just means they can hide bits and pieces of it in other projects.

    If they want the data, they'll get it.

    1. Re:Whatever... by EinarH · · Score: 3, Interesting
      TIA will become another program that's "downgraded" in other words like the Star Wars program grom the Reagan era.
      Star Wars was supposed to end, but lived on in black budget for many years, hiding in the dark and with only small leaks of information leaked out in the ninthies, and then almost 15 years later the program derived into the Ballistic Missile Defense program.

      So the program in it's current form is dead, but the research necessarily to complete the program for future use will continue.

      --

      Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.

  3. MATRIX by henbane · · Score: 4, Informative
    But from the ashes of TIA rises the MATRIX. This article on the Register doesn't paint a pretty picture.

    And the conspicuous use of the phrase 'anti-terrorism' does send up a red flag, being the standard incantation with which assaults on the liberties and privacy of ordinary citizens are justified. "The MATRIX pilot project is an effort to increase and enhance the exchange of sensitive terrorism and other criminal activity information between local, state, and federal agencies," the project Web site explains. The system will use "data analysis and data integration technology to improve the usefulness of information contained in multiple types of document storage systems." From that it would appear that the scheme is designed to give the Feds what they're not allowed to get simply by re-packaging it and selling it through a back channel. It also looks designed to find and prosecute, perhaps persecute, unfortunate bastards in the name of the American anti-terror Jihad.

    Sounds like TIA wasn't so bad after all.

  4. Score one for the good guys? by Millennium · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know about this. If it were truly scrapped, then it would be a wonderful thing. More likely, however, it's simply being driven underground.

    Once granted power, no government ever gives it up willingly. That's the whole point of limited government, and it's why I doubt that this is really being cancelled. I'd watch the budget for next year, to see if the infamous black budget suddently grows by the same amount that TIA would have gotten.

    1. Re:Score one for the good guys? by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      But you see, it was NEVER a power of government.

      Congresscritters are every bit as paranoid as the rest of us. The memories of J. Edgar Hoover, and a dossier of everyone of not in America are still a fresh memory.

      Also for the record, the Black Budget does not exist. The last time someone pulled that crap was Iran-Contra, and oh wait, the was Pointdexter and he's now in charge of ... damnit.

      The Neocons have the day. But they overestimate the patience of the American people. We may be lazy, but when pissed off we are brutal.

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  5. State Versions by borroff · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article neglects to mention that some states have begun implementing their own version of TIA (see The Washington Post article). There appears to be some feeling that they can sneak in under the radar if it's not a federal program.

    The pledges of restraint by Florida law enforcement officials are particularly comforting.

  6. So does that make it right by Trigun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    or does it just make it tolerable?

    1. Re:So does that make it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It makes it silly to say "that's what Hitler did" as if somehow internal intelligence services were a unique feature of Nazism.

  7. See by Hard_Code · · Score: 4, Funny

    See, TIA is dead, honest *waves hands*. You made a big fuss over nothing. We're the government, we're here to help you. Now move along, thank you.

    --

    It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  8. not only outside the US... by upstateguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The program still continues on non-citizens while they are in the U.S.

    From the article linked (emphasis mine):

    But they shifted some of the high-powered software under development to different government offices, to be used to gather intelligence from U.S. citizens abroad and foreigners in this country and abroad.

  9. *Really* dead? by Chagrin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So how long will it be before I start seeing T1 lines failing again when they start removing the wiretaps?

    --

    I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation

  10. Re:Let's not forget... by flashbang · · Score: 2, Informative

    Looks like congress didn't forget. They popped a cap in CAPPS..

    --
    My sig left me for a younger user id.
  11. Great. by CGP314 · · Score: 2, Funny

    The government is cancelling most of the project and changing the rest to focus on people outside the United States.

    Oh great, I moved to the UK from the US to get away from TIA.

  12. Why, yes, it IS an aluminum foil hat. by rot26 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anybody who thinks for a minute that TIA is going away as long as Ashcroft is AG is high. This isn't a retreat, it's a regrouping before the next attack. As has been discussed here before, we will see this thing pop up again, medusa-like, under a variety of disguises; they'll be tracking child molesters, deadbeat dads, drug dealers, rapists, what have you, and each will be a noble enterprise, as difficult to criticize as a newborn baby. (No mention of rogue librarians will be made, for sure.) Behind the scenes, of course, will be the massive data-mining that was the original goal. We'll only hear about THAT part incidentally, incrementally, accidentally, etc-ally.

    --



    To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
    1. Re:Why, yes, it IS an aluminum foil hat. by PhxBlue · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ashcroft - Attorney General, Justice Department.
      TIA - DARPA, Defense Department.

      As hard as it may be to believe, Ashcroft has nothing to do with TIA or anything else in the Pentagon. TIA was Poindexter's baby and carried Rumsfeld's seal of approval, not Ashcroft's.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    2. Re:Why, yes, it IS an aluminum foil hat. by rot26 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As hard as it may be to believe, Ashcroft has nothing to do with TIA or anything else in the Pentagon. TIA was Poindexter's baby and carried Rumsfeld's seal of approval, not Ashcroft's.

      And pry-thee which division of the Defense Department was going to use TIA had it been fully implemented and deployed?

      DARPA may be part of the Defense Department, but in this case they were essentially a contractor developing a product for use by Justice.

      --



      To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
  13. Like the Office of Strategic Influence? by I+am+Jack's+username · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "And then there was the office of strategic influence. [...] I went down that next day and said fine, if you want to savage this thing fine I'll give you the corpse. There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing every single thing that needs to be done and I have." - Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 2002-11-18, http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov2002/t11212002_ t1118sd2.html

  14. Well, that's all right then by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Funny

    But say, why does NASA need so many new $10,000 hammers and toilet seats?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  15. Spying by chrystoph · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that the whole spying thing can be summed up with a poster the Security Officer at one of my Navy commands had on his wall.

    "Countries do not have friends, only interests."

    --

    -------------------------
    As easy as herding cats!
  16. The 52 most dangerous American officials by axxackall · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I found a very interesting article about some French people thinking that 9/11 was organized by US official in order to achive specific personal political and financial benefits. Here is the text of the article in case if it will be slashdotted:

    PARIS, Sept. 25 -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is the Ace of Spades and al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden a Joker in a provocative pack of French playing cards depicting "the 52 most dangerous American officials."

    A RIPOSTE TO the "most-wanted" cards of Iraqi leaders issued to U.S. soldiers, the deck is the latest commercial offering by a radical think tank whose conspiracy theory account of the Sept. 11 attacks stormed French bestseller charts last year.

    "We've already sold some 2,500 decks. That's not bad considering we couldn't find anyone who was willing to print them at first," said Thierry Meyssan, president of the Paris-based Reseau Voltaire group.

    "We were shocked by the indecency of the cards distributed by the U.S. military. It was as if arresting people was some kind of game," Meyssan told Reuters Thursday.

    Two hundred packs of the original Pentagon-devised U.S. cards were sent to U.S. soldiers in Iraq. The American public has since snapped up hundreds of thousands of the decks, which portray Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein as the Ace of Spades.

    The French cards bestow that honor not on President Bush but Rumsfeld. Under his mug shot, he is accused of using the Sept. 11 attacks "to increase military budgets and plan an army in space that could completely dominate Earth."

    As King of Diamonds -- the suit chosen to represent economic power in the U.S. administration -- Bush is described merely as "head of a baseball club ... designated president of the United States by friends of his father at the Supreme Court."

    In the 2000 election, the Court stopped a potentially decisive recount in Florida, a move that handed the presidency to Bush.

    Osama bin Laden, whose al-Qaida network Washington blames for the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. landmarks, is a Joker described as "a CIA agent charged ... with provoking a clash between the 'Arab-Muslim' and 'Judeo-Christian' worlds."

    Meyssan won notoriety for his book "L'Effroyable Imposture" ("The Appalling Fraud"), which suggested U.S. military insiders were probably behind the Sept. 11 attacks.

    I am now looking to buy that french deck of cards - cood be a very insightful gift here in North America (especially here in Canada) for people who has not completely lost the sense of humor :)

    --

    Less is more !
    1. Re:The 52 most dangerous American officials by ultrasound · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Stay exactly where you are, place your hands against the wall and remain in that position. You will be collected shortly.

      You are scheduled for a visit to a thought re-alignment centre where a quick mental enema will cure you of your ills. Reading non-US approved news sources is unpatriotic and will not be tolerated.

      Have a nice day!

      ---

    2. Re:The 52 most dangerous American officials by ThinWhiteDuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just FYI. While this idea "could" be "slightly" amusing, I guess you might be interested in knowing a little more about Meyssan.

      This guy is a known leftist activist with a blatant anti-American agenda. (Yes there are *some* anti-Americans in France). His book, "L'Effroyable Imposture", has been repeatedly debunked in French mainstream media and is widely considered as a failed marketing coup. Interestingly, previous work by Meyssan had earned him the reputation of a good investigator. His work on the French extreme right parties is viewed as solid and professional. For many, "L'Effroyable Imposture" is a sort of political/intellectual suicide.

      Back to the msnbc article, I'm not quite comfortable about their decision to publish it that way, especially under the header "French cards spoof U.S. government". To the casual reader, this article hammers the message : "the French hate us". I would not be surprised if most Americans were offended by this deck and added this piece of information into the "France sucks" column.
      Of course, msnbc is absolutely free to publish whatever it wishes, but I still think they fell here into demagoguery and populism. Believe me, there are a lot of very insightful and interesting articles in the French press about the whole 911/Iraq/diplomacy stuff, none of which are stained by anti-americanism. I think it's sad that msnbc chose this one French initiative to report.

      --

      It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
    3. Re:The 52 most dangerous American officials by KludgeGrrl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am now looking to buy that french deck of cards

      Why give the French all the credit? A US blogger came up with the same idea back in April

      Indeed, as a Canadian, you might have heard the spot on CBC's "Here and Now" a few months ago where a maker of such a deck was banned from selling it on e-bay. According to The Agonist, "He owns the domain name, "thebushadministration.com" where he's posted the images for sale."

      So you can spend locally and protest globally. Or something like that.

  17. electoral reasons? by wannasleep · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, the US has stopped the part of the project that has to do with people who are more likely to vote. Why not on Americans abroad? Are they more likely to be terrorists? And foreigners who live in the US?
    What are american companies supposed to do? Suppose I am Visa. Should I give out information on my foreign customers who do not live in the US? Example: in many European countries, credit reporting agencies can not be established because they would be in violation of privacy laws. How would the information be gathered? If we stick to publicly available sources, you can't get very far in Europe, and I don't see foreign companies giving out data to the american government. So, my take is that they are publicly saying the they closing it (elections are getting closer) and they will do it in another way. Or... they have completed it and they do not need new funds.

    I see that the US institutions are increasingly becoming xenophobic, which seems to pay off. Nothing unites more than a common enemy. Now, if you are a foreigner you can be detained indefinitely with no charge as long as somebody suspects that you are a terrorist. Now you can be spied upon at will, and I am already excited by the Patriot Act II which will restrict some more freedoms.

  18. heh... by interactive_civilian · · Score: 4, Funny
    [paraphrasing]

    TIA: "I'm not dead!"
    US Citizen: "Here, he says he's not dead."
    US Government: "Yes, he is."
    TIA: "I'm NOT!"
    US Citizen: "He isn't?"
    US Government: "He will be soon. He's very ill."
    TIA: "I'm getting better."
    US Government: "No you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment."
    US Citizen: "Look, I can't take him like this."
    TIA: "I don't want to go on the cart."
    US Government: "Oh don't be such a baby."
    US Citizen: "I can't take him."
    TIA: "I think I'll go for a walk."
    US Government: "You're not fooling anyone you know."

    yada yada yada...
    ;-p

    --
    "Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
  19. CONTRADICTORY NEWS: Cancelled or Not? by Featureless · · Score: 4, Informative

    If it's cancelled then why did I read this article two days ago?

    --

    Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
  20. Why TIA is necessary by Dan+Weaver · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Powerful surveillance technologies in the hands of Western security organizations are the thermonuclear deterrent of the present day. They are expensive, unpopular, and capable of being used for any number of great evils - but they are the only alternative to the maintenance of enormous conventional forces designed to fight brutal and exhausting wars of occupation.

    It's not that TIA has died - it's that it has been moved into the secret realm and given to people who have the stomach to run it. Use of technologies like TIA is the best option we have available to defend the comfortable lives we lead and to provide hope for improving the lives of people around the world through economic prosperity driven by the engine of Western markets. Could it be used for terrible evil? Yes. Will it be? That's a question of good government - government by individuals who can handle the seriousness of the moral issues involved without panicking and fleeing in terror.

    --
    H4x0r Economist - k33ping d3m0cr4cy l33t 51Nc3 1987
  21. What have you done to discuss gov. corruption? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Troll

    I've read all the posts up to this one, and everyone has had the same reaction: The U.S. government is lying when it says it has stopped its plan to spy on U.S. citizens. But where is the intensity? Everyone seems to be taking it a little too calmly.

    If a government does not serve its citizens, that government is corrupt. If a government lies to its citizens, that government is corrupt.

    I'm doing my part to discuss the mistakes of the U.S. government. For example, I collected this information: History surrounding the U.S. war with Iraq: Four short stories. Basically, when a government allows some of its departments to act in secret, that government quickly begins to have problems with corruption.

    Here's another contribution. It's not perfect, but it is something:

    Lies about the U.S. -- Iraq War
    1. Violence is a good way to end violence.
    2. Americans should kill Iraqis to make them more peaceful.
    3. Before Saddam Hussein, there was no violence in Iraq. When Mr. Hussein is no longer in power, Iraq will become a peaceful place.
    4. Killing Iraqis and destroying the infrastructure of that very poor country will have simple consequences. Killing people is an entirely clean social event, like on TV. Killing people has no effect on future relationships, or on the trust people put in those relationships.
    5. Americans are superior people who should decide the way the world should be run.
    6. Private oil companies should be allowed to take on unprofitable operations if U.S. taxpayers can be convinced to pay part of the cost so that the oil companies can make money.
    The comic strip Sylvia for today, Friday, September 26, 2003 accuses U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft of conflict of interest and mismanagement. The Sylvia comic normally jokes about women. If Sylvia can talk about U.S. government corruption, you should not feel shy about making your own contribution.

    My idea about love of country: You don't really love your country unless you are willing to look at and understand areas where your country needs improvement. The same principle applies elsewhere. You don't really love your wife if you turn your back when she is having serious, difficult-to-understand problems. And, you don't really love yourself unless you try to understand and resolve your own inner conflict.

    As I said, what I have written here is not perfect, but it IS something.
  22. Blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine... by DrMorpheus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me guess, you'd also complain about MSNBC had the story been about a bunch of notoriously right-wing Americans publishing the same deck of cards with various French officials' pictures on it, right Mr. "Fair & Objective"?

    --
    Debunking the "59 Deceits"
  23. Re:Gotta give them credit by symbolic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DARPA's dreaded Total Information Awareness (TIA) program, formerly administered by convicted felon and Republican hero John Poindexter of Iran-Contra fame...

    Very few articles about TIA seem to mention the fact that Poindexter is a person that cannot be trusted, or that he's associated with a political party that has pushed the notion of 'patriotism' onto a dangerous, rocky slope that has every American citizen under suspicion for possible terrorist activity. TIA will not provide any protection against terrorism, but if history is any indication, it will provide plenty of opportunity for abuse.

  24. Oh Goodie... by Bohnanza · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So now instead of having a database of everything about everybody, the government will have a SECRET database of everything about everybody.

    --

    -----

    Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.

  25. What makes a better headline? by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    French Conspiracy Theorists Hate US

    or

    French media encourage a robust and informative debate about US policy

  26. TIA Alive and Well. by blcknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From "SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy" -- http://ic-arda.org/Novel_Intelligence/index.html "Indeed, one TIA-like program conducted under the auspices of U.S. intelligence is the "Novel Intelligence from Massive Data" (NIMD) initiative of the little-known Intelligence Community Advanced Research and Development Activity (ARDA). Pursued with a minimal public profile and lacking a polarizing figure like Adm. Poindexter to galvanize opposition, NIMD has proceeded quietly even as TIA imploded. The existence of NIMD was first noted last year by Jim McGee of CQ Homeland Security. More recently, on July 24, 2003 he wrote in CQ Homeland Security that NIMD was "roaring down a parallel research track to TIA." NIMD was also cited in a May 21, 2003 article in the New York Times."

  27. Re:The priviledge of being American by DEBEDb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, we do not. We extend rights to all people,
    until it is proven that they are criminal
    (terrorist, illegal in US, etc.) at which
    point rights are taken away.

    That's a bit harder to understand than
    "terrorists should have no rights", but
    I hope you'll manage.

    --

    Considered harmful.